The Hormonal Profile of MPB

[Murse121]

Lucid and gang,

I ran most of these tests, though I did leave out progesterone and estradiol. I will post my results when I get home from tonight. Nothing is seems to be too out of whack but DHEAs was 337.

 

[lucid&alive]

Lucid and gang,

I ran most of these tests, though I did leave out progesterone and estradiol. I will post my results when I get home from tonight. Nothing is seems to be too out of whack but DHEAs was 337.

Hey thanks Murse121 I'm excited to see your lab results. Can you also describe your type of balding, age it started, duration, and severity? Check out the Pitts article I just posted. According to that you are just at the top end of the non-balding range.

 

[Dr. B]

Hey thanks Murse121 I'm excited to see your lab results. Can you also describe your type of balding, age it started, duration, and severity? Check out the Pitts article I just posted. According to that you are just at the top end of the non-balding range.

hair loss seems to be linked to autoimmunity, overall toxin exposure, too much cortisol, poor metabolism. high estrogen/cortisol/prolactin can cause it, but simply lowering those things via chemicals may not resolve it, somehow once you're in the high cortisol stress state, supplementing with dhea/testosterone/dht causes more hair shedding.

 

[rr1]

hair loss seems to be linked to autoimmunity, overall toxin exposure, too much cortisol, poor metabolism. high estrogen/cortisol/prolactin can cause it, but simply lowering those things via chemicals may not resolve it, somehow once you're in the high cortisol stress state, supplementing with dhea/testosterone/dht causes more hair shedding.

And this is surprising? Under the conditions you states of course test/dhea will convert to estrogen and dht is usually in too high of a dose or has impurities.
Progesterone, vitamin D, thyroid, aspirin, niacinamide, cyproheptadine. These should be better alternatives

 

[Dr. B]

And this is surprising? Under the conditions you states of course test/dhea will convert to estrogen and dht is usually in too high of a dose or has impurities.
Progesterone, vitamin D, thyroid, aspirin, niacinamide, cyproheptadine. These should be better alternatives

whats the value of the cyproheptadine, couldnt that lower stomach acid too much in an already low thyroid person? its anti histamine, maybe pro domaminergic right?
thyroid somehow can also raise cortisol, I dont know the mechanism but when I tried T3 I actually slowly gained weight from it and even started burning up muscle tissue, shedding some hair, effects werent as severe and quick as pregnenolone/iodine though.
the others you mentioned are likely good, i havent tried stand alone progesterone, could that possibly turn to more cortisol? vitamin d3 seems the safest and is always useful especially with low sunlight exposure. niacinamide supplementation can excrete phosphorus, which could be good or bad depending on intake... with regards to aspirin/niacinamide is it possible they can inhibit fat burning too much. i didnt test it long enough but aspirin seems it could cause issues with muscle mass and catabolism. it apparently stimulates AMPK, which can antagonize mTOR and can have a catabolic effect. the body taps into fat burning when there isnt enough glucose/glycogen available or for long term stress or activity. if you inhibit that fat burning and attempt to force the body to burn sugar, it's very possible the body will be forced to catabolize its own skin/organs/tissues to provide that additional sugar. so with aspirin/niacinamide they may only work properly if you're doing a very low fat diet with very high carbs.

 

[Murse121]

Lucid and others,
Here are my labs below compared to Sanke. Honestly was a little suprised how close I was to the controls. Nonetheless, I still think the information is valuable. A little background: Im 33, 6'2" and about 165 lbs currently. My issue has primarily been recession. I first noticed loss at the temples when I was about 17. This was very subtle at first, hair everywhere else is extremely thick. It has been a slow march backwards since then, with occasional bursts in progression. Besides the temples themselves, my temple 'points' (triangular area above and forward of ears, below temples) have receded significantly. This is an area that I see remain intact in many men, even with extreme baldness. I would call myself either a norwood II or possibly III, I cannot tell if I have the very beginnings of crown thinning. When I wear my hair longer, with a 'shaggy' look, you might not tell that Ive lost any hair from a head on view, because of how thick my hair is in most places. Ive been thin/skinny most of my life, used to get very bad stomach bloating/aches as an adolescent, and often times was anti social/ socially anxious. These things both wax and wane. As an adult and working with the general public, I dont really get 'socially anxious' anymore, perhaps just out of gradual desensitization. During a period from age 21 to 24, I was very into bodybuilding and managed to gain a fair amount of weight, up to about 195 lbs. I ate pretty much anything in sight, probably a large amount of PUFA included, but I think I skimped on lots of veggies as I saw them as low calorie. Ironically (or not?) stomach aches/bloating was minimal during this period. Im sure I got lots of dairy in. However, I did get the beginnings of scalp psoriasis and acid reflux during this time. At 25, I became a father which was mostly joyous, but other significant stressors began. My fiance at the time was a violent alcoholic, and my new job as a hospital nurse was quite stressful, despite being fulfilling at times. I slowly drifted away from friends, the bodybuilding became too demanding, and home life turned into a mess. Just recently got married to someone much more supportive, and moved to a less demanding nursing job in the past year, this is probably the least stressed ive been in 8 years. Sorry for the long story but I thought context was relevant. Here are the labs.

You can see that most values are pretty close to controls, with total test a little high and DHEAs maybe at the top end.

Some other thoughts: Ive been fumbling with peat principles for about 1-2 years. The consistent effort Ive made is to avoid PUFA when possible, although I will pay less attention to this if eating out at a restaurant. Ive become mostly carb-centric overall, I would say some of my efforts have made me hypocaloric, (which we know is a big mistake). My prolactin seems good at 7.4. Two years ago it was 11.8. I also included TSH and cholesterol. This is the lowest Ive ever seen my TSH, at 0.86. Had it tested in previous years and it always hovered around 1.5. Vitamin D level usually hovers 30-40(lowish) My cholesterol has been low since as long as I can remember. Always 110s - low 130s. In these circles, low cholesterol is looked at just as badly as high. I think this is relevant. It was like this even during my high calorie bodybuilding days. The only supplements ive been consistent with the last few years are: vitamin E with big fatty meals, sporadic aspirin, and sporadic energin. Ive recently restarted taurine, and have found a significant reduction in scalp itch.
Anyways, one of the angles im interested in, which I regret not getting tested is serotonin, which gut issues point me towards. The tests are expensive. Also interested in the cortisol angle and adrenaline. Interested in seeing this thread continue, and hope others can contribute more labs as well.

 

[rr1]

whats the value of the cyproheptadine, couldnt that lower stomach acid too much in an already low thyroid person? its anti histamine, maybe pro domaminergic right?
thyroid somehow can also raise cortisol, I dont know the mechanism but when I tried T3 I actually slowly gained weight from it and even started burning up muscle tissue, shedding some hair, effects werent as severe and quick as pregnenolone/iodine though.
the others you mentioned are likely good, i havent tried stand alone progesterone, could that possibly turn to more cortisol? vitamin d3 seems the safest and is always useful especially with low sunlight exposure. niacinamide supplementation can excrete phosphorus, which could be good or bad depending on intake... with regards to aspirin/niacinamide is it possible they can inhibit fat burning too much. i didnt test it long enough but aspirin seems it could cause issues with muscle mass and catabolism. it apparently stimulates AMPK, which can antagonize mTOR and can have a catabolic effect. the body taps into fat burning when there isnt enough glucose/glycogen available or for long term stress or activity. if you inhibit that fat burning and attempt to force the body to burn sugar, it's very possible the body will be forced to catabolize its own skin/organs/tissues to provide that additional sugar. so with aspirin/niacinamide they may only work properly if you're doing a very low fat diet with very high carbs.

Cypro is used in Cushing disease to lower cortisol. Cyproheptadine Lowers Cortisol, Endorphins, HGH, Aldosterone

Progesterone is powerful anti stress substance. The Anti-cortisol Mechanism Of Progesterone

All of your questions have been answered on the forum before. Try a quick search.

 

[Dr. B]

Cypro is used in Cushing disease to lower cortisol. Cyproheptadine Lowers Cortisol, Endorphins, HGH, Aldosterone

Progesterone is powerful anti stress substance. The Anti-cortisol Mechanism Of Progesterone

All of your questions have been answered on the forum before. Try a quick search.

Peat himself has said progesterone can turn to cortisol. It apparently can lower it, but he's said progesterone can convert into any of the other adrenal steroids as needed in people/animals who lack adrenal glands. has progesterone been tried by people experiencing cushings symptoms and hair loss? cushings is basically entirely cortisol driven, so progesterone if anti cortisol should provide significant benefits for anyone who's severely overweight/has cushings symptoms.

ive read varying things on niacinamide/aspirin. logically speaking the more you inhibit fat burning the more you increase the possibility of boosting cortisol. if humans didnt have the ability to burn fat we would catabolize all our muscles and organs and glands extremely quickly, perhaps just from going out jogging or doing a workout or other stressful activity. by taking a substance which inhibits fat burning, it could help if you have elevated blood sugar levels yes, but if it drops blood sugar levels too low then cortisol will go up in order to convert tissue into sugars. niacinamide lowers phosphate levels, being a b vitamin if it is supplemented it's probably riskier the higher you dose it.

cypro is interesting. by what mechanism does it boost prolactin? i saw several threads/posts mentioning that. also I thought it's also an anti serotonin/anti histamine substance?

 

[equipoise]

Peat himself has said progesterone can turn to cortisol. It apparently can lower it, but he's said progesterone can convert into any of the other adrenal steroids as needed in people/animals who lack adrenal glands. has progesterone been tried by people experiencing cushings symptoms and hair loss? cushings is basically entirely cortisol driven, so progesterone if anti cortisol should provide significant benefits for anyone who's severely overweight/has cushings symptoms.

ive read varying things on niacinamide/aspirin. logically speaking the more you inhibit fat burning the more you increase the possibility of boosting cortisol. if humans didnt have the ability to burn fat we would catabolize all our muscles and organs and glands extremely quickly, perhaps just from going out jogging or doing a workout or other stressful activity. by taking a substance which inhibits fat burning, it could help if you have elevated blood sugar levels yes, but if it drops blood sugar levels too low then cortisol will go up in order to convert tissue into sugars. niacinamide lowers phosphate levels, being a b vitamin if it is supplemented it's probably riskier the higher you dose it.

cypro is interesting. by what mechanism does it boost prolactin? i saw several threads/posts mentioning that. also I thought it's also an anti serotonin/anti histamine substance?

Cypro does so by being a strong D2 antagonist. When I say strong, many others, myself included, have experienced the fog and apathy following Cypro's dose, from as little as half a milligram.

Any hormone can go a different pathway if the body is stressed. High testosterone is great in a healthy individual, with good gut health, but terrible in inflammed PUFA in a serotonin overload because most of it is just gonna go get converted to estrogen anyways.

 

[Dr. B]

Cypro does so by being a strong D2 antagonist. When I say strong, many others, myself included, have experienced the fog and apathy following Cypro's dose, from as little as half a milligram.

Any hormone can go a different pathway if the body is stressed. High testosterone is great in a healthy individual, with good gut health, but terrible in inflammed PUFA in a serotonin overload because most of it is just gonna go get converted to estrogen anyways.

even dht, somehow goes a certain way or elevates cortisol or something. what do you think dht is doing to cause hair loss/other issues in stressed people, since it cant turn to estrogen and supposedly it may even lower cortisol?
D2 antagonist means it antagonizes serotonin, or cortisol?
arent there reports of cypro increasing prolactin somehow?
and some have said dopaminergic chemicals should not be used due to withdrawals and rebounds when coming off them.
the anti histamine things, wouldnt these lower stomach acid too much in low thyroid people who already have poor digestion/stomach acid.

 

[Murse121]

I apologize for some of my rambling/repetition in my previous post, had just finished a 12 hour shift. Anyone here ever get serotonin tested? Either serum or whole blood? Its next on the list for me, but I need to do a little more research on differences between the two/values, etc. Another thing: in addition to the aforementioned scalp hair loss, I am experiencing loss of hair on the lateral calves, but new hair growth on the upper arms, and the beginnings of growth on the shoulders and upper back. I also have a moderate left sized varicocele, Im sure that this has at least some effect on hormones.

 

[Dr. B]

I apologize for some of my rambling/repetition in my previous post, had just finished a 12 hour shift. Anyone here ever get serotonin tested? Either serum or whole blood? Its next on the list for me, but I need to do a little more research on differences between the two/values, etc. Another thing: in addition to the aforementioned scalp hair loss, I am experiencing loss of hair on the lateral calves, but new hair growth on the upper arms, and the beginnings of growth on the shoulders and upper back. I also have a moderate left sized varicocele, Im sure that this has at least some effect on hormones.

what causes the varicocele?

 

[Murse121]

what causes the varicocele?

Not entirely sure, have had it since basically puberty. There are various theories from mainstream medicine, ranging from malfunctioning venous valves, to physical injury. Ive read some more interesting theories as of late, centering around muscular tension in the area. Some have claimed to have gotten relief from stretches or exercises. Looking into that as well.

 

[Dr. B]

Not entirely sure, have had it since basically puberty. There are various theories from mainstream medicine, ranging from malfunctioning venous valves, to physical injury. Ive read some more interesting theories as of late, centering around muscular tension in the area. Some have claimed to have gotten relief from stretches or exercises. Looking into that as well.

does varicele mean the enlarged somewhat painful vein in the area? i got those from time to time, im not sure how they resolved. some supplements definitely worsened them. im pretty sure when i was trying different natural test booster products, without doing research, i had used saw palmetto. which caused a painful vein to form on the testes somewhere. theres probably a bunch of supplements that can cause them.

 

[Murse121]

does varicele mean the enlarged somewhat painful vein in the area? i got those from time to time, im not sure how they resolved. some supplements definitely worsened them. im pretty sure when i was trying different natural test booster products, without doing research, i had used saw palmetto. which caused a painful vein to form on the testes somewhere. theres probably a bunch of supplements that can cause them.

Yes, varicoceles are swollen testicular veins. For me it’s been chronic since at least 14.