Surrogates For Thyroid Hormone

[haidut]

Question relative to this interesting experiment - did you administer this combo prior to eating? I have found that i tolerate caffeine much better prior to my first meal, of course with adequate sugar and either cream or milk. I suppose adding in energin & aspirin with my coffee will yield optimal results prior to my breakfast.

Side note - I seem to not react that favorably to thyroid hormone. My energy from it seems to be more adrenaline driven than metabolism driven.

I always feel best when caffeine/niacinamide are taken with sugary liquid but not with food. If taken with food I get upset stomach and almost like a flu reaction.

 

[Jsaute21]

I always feel best when caffeine/niacinamide are taken with sugary liquid but not with food. If taken with food I get upset stomach and almost like a flu reaction.

Its weird how similarly we react to certain things. I don't get flu like symptoms but feel noticeably worse.

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Side note - I seem to not react that favorably to thyroid hormone. My energy from it seems to be more adrenaline driven than metabolism driven.

Hey am familair with this adrenaline driven, when taking thryoid my body usually tenses up and throat gets dry, adrenaline feeling energy. How do you deal with this? I am looking for why this is happening as well as a way to soothe it and create similiar energy.

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Just want to write back with an update to above, after not taking thyroid for a few days do to adrenaline becoming so high and me becoming a werido haha, i hate those days, i bravely tried it again tonight hoping for better result and it was achieved. I was able to knock down the adrenaline response with milk thistle seed, this works like a charm for my system as well as not leaving me depressed in the A.M. from low serotonin, milk thistle can be estrogenic but taking alongside 200iu of vitamin e should have your back if you go this route.

 

[lollipop]

Just want to write back with an update to above, after not taking thyroid for a few days do to adrenaline becoming so high and me becoming a werido haha, i hate those days, i bravely tried it again tonight hoping for better result and it was achieved. I was able to knock down the adrenaline response with milk thistle seed, this works like a charm for my system as well as not leaving me depressed in the A.M. from low serotonin, milk thistle can be estrogenic but taking alongside 200iu of vitamin e should have your back if you go this route.

From what I read somewhere on this forum, Milk thistle is not estrogenic in low quantities - up to 500mg a day. After that it becomes estrogenic. Maybe that helps?

 

[SolRosenberg]

I have only read the first few pages of this thread but I will read the rest hopefully this evening. Very interesting stuff! I’m interested in trying the combination of 325mg aspirin, 200mg caffeine, 500mg niacinamide 3x a day.

I hope this question hasn’t already been answered or that I overlooked it but, would nicotinamide substitute for niacinamide?

EDIT: I just read on wiki that nicotinamide and niacinamide are synonymous...is that true?

 

[Risingfire]

What do you think of applying caffiene to the testicles like T3? How would you personally go about doing that? For either primary or secondary hypogonadism

Any results from this?

 

[Dhair]

Any results from this?

Never did it with caffeine. I used tyromix in that area and it worked VERY well, but it started to make me too anxious so I had to stop. I also don't think testicular application of thyroid will work unless it is dissolved in DMSO. If I had to do it over again I would use tyronene (T3 only) in DMSO on the testes. Waiting for haidut to bring back DMSO as a solvent option before I try it again.

 

[tomisonbottom]

I have recently started experimenting with the caffeine/aspirin/B3 combination. This morning at 8am I did:

6 TBSP of gelatin
1 TBSP of coconut oil
3 TBSP of sugar
1/2 cup of 2% milk
Pinch of salt
100 mg of coffee
1/2 grain of NDT
325mg of aspirin
500mg of Niacinamide

I was able to go 3.5 hours with no food...normally I need to eat every 1-2 hours. Heart rate stuck at 100bpm but I was not jittery; just calm and relaxed. I realize thats a high metabolic response but I did not have any hard crashes or headaches. Do you think this is a good sign that the combination is doing its job in supporting good cellular function?

Seems like a great result, although that's a lot of protein at once. Did you keep trying it?

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Hey there just thought I could get direct advise on using a thyroid surrogate to raise metabolism

I'm currently taking time off the gym (1 2 weeks) and for the past two weeks just started eating a peat friendly diet to get my temps and pulse up (long term)

My resting heart rate has dropped from 58 to 46 ish since I've started a ray style diet and temps dropped from roughly 97.4 to 97 in AM

Would using a thyroid surrogate hinder recovery or would I just have to eat more?

I dont want to take thyroid as I want to naturally increase my pulsed and temp before that route so would it be wise to incorporate (aspirin, niacinamide and caffiene) into the mix whilst recovering

I'm taking around 400 mg x 2 caffiene 6 AM and 12 pm with around 200-300 calories mostly sugar , sat fat and milk.

Aspirin 500mg 2-3 times a day and just started taking niacmide took 1500 mg and everything got warm and beats went from 48 to 58 but I dont think this is from a stress increase as I'm extremely calm and content. Usually if pulse gets that high I feel jittery and scrambled.

 

[GorillaHead]

Are thyroid surrogates something we would have to stay on forever? I mean aspirin daily and caffeine.

There’s no way to fix this permanently. It’s insane how many people have thyroid dysfunction.

 

[Kyle Bigman]

I am taking caffeine pills, bought from Amazon. It's supposed to be pure caffeine without any additives. For me, this is easier than drinking 15+ cups of coffee daily. It's now more than 16 hours after taking the combo and I am still feeling a residual effect! Nothing unpleasant, just strong desire to keep reading or doing things.

woah. 15+. So, do you think that coffee has some other compound that causes jitters/anxiety? I got this the other day after drinking 5 cups. I cannot imagine consuming the level of caffeine in 15 cups, unless the issue is something else in coffee causing this effect?

 

[haidut]

woah. 15+. So, do you think that coffee has some other compound that causes jitters/anxiety? I got this the other day after drinking 5 cups. I cannot imagine consuming the level of caffeine in 15 cups, unless the issue is something else in coffee causing this effect?

I only mentioned the 15+ cups because Peat said a few times that when he was hypothyroid he used to drink up to 50 cups daily. Yes, not a typo, fifty cups. If we assume a cup has 50mg caffeine the 15 cups was meant to approximate the 750mg-1,200mg daily caffeine dose I was experimenting with at the time. Nowadays, I think even 200mg daily are enough to see robust benefits for the liver.

 

[japanesedude]

just a cup of coffee taken with 500mg niacinamide work wonders for me.

 

[scoobydoo]

Tried this.. got worse adrenaline surge than regular coffee. Ate with lots of carbs and fruit
Why is this? Got really cold and shaky

 

[FitnessMike]

This post is directed at those who have issues with large doses of caffeine. For a long time caffeine caused me to have "jitters", even when taken with enough sugar. Recently I was reading on the design of the RedBull energy drink and how taurine was added to mitigate the caffeine "jitters". Taurine is not bad idea but for many people is too sedative. So, I thought of doing another combo - caffeine and niacinamide. Niacinamide in higher doses acts like a benzo (Valium) and should mitigate the nervousness caused by caffeine. Then I remembered Ray's articles about caffeine and aspirin acting like thyroid hormone and decided to combine them all together. In theory, all 3 compounds should give a boost in energy and have been used (separately) in various studies for athletes. So, after much experimentation I am happy to report that I found a combo that gives me sustained (7-8 hours) of 98.5 degrees temperature and pulse of about 90, without taking any thyroid hormones in between.
So, the mix is this: 325mg aspirin, 200mg caffeine, 500mg niacinamide. This is what I would call a single dose. Today I took 3 times that dose in a single sitting for a total of 1g aspirin, 600mg caffeine and 1500mg niacinamide.
Within 15min I felt the energy/wakefulness surge caused by caffeine but I did not feel the adrenalin surge I normally get. After about an hour I stabilized in a very nice highly alert but calm state that lasted throughout the entire day. I measured my pulse and temp every 2 hours and they both stayed consistent as well. With normal food intake and no additional thyroid hormone or other stimulants like anti-serotonin drugs I maintained this state for more than 8 hours and then slowly started to subside. I did not crash, like it is often reported after a big caffeine intake.
So, I just wanted to share this with people who have trouble with caffeine or want to ramp up metabolism but do not want to take thyroid. Bottom line - it seems that niacinamide both mitigates the potential adrenalin surge of large caffeine dose and gives an additional energy boost.
Next step is to add vitamin B1 to the mix
Anyone else want to try this combo as well and report back?

Would the caffeine prevent aspirine and niacinamide fattening the liver if combined?

 

[FitnessMike]

caffeine seems to be increasing speed with which thyroid hormone are being used up

 

[NewACC]

I am taking caffeine pills, bought from Amazon. It's supposed to be pure caffeine without any additives. For me, this is easier than drinking 15+ cups of coffee daily. It's now more than 16 hours after taking the combo and I am still feeling a residual effect! Nothing unpleasant, just strong desire to keep reading or doing things.

@haidut, do caffeine save its dopaminergic effect after chronic consumption?

 

[Frankdee20]

Keep in mind though, Niacinamide especially, but this can be said for all three, one needs to have enough stored glycogen or sugars to prevent bad effects. I took Niacinamide before and it makes you ravenous for food

 

[AinmAnseo]

Haidut thanks for the interesting post!

I've tried this today with my own homemade pill concoction. I feel nothing short of amazing.

For those who are curious, these are the products I used to make the pill:

Beyond a Century Pure Niacinamide Powder (no longer produced but here is a USP alternative: http://www.lotioncrafter.com/vitamin-b3 ... e-usp.html)
Vedco Aspirin Powder - Aspirin Powder (1 Pound) by VEDCO
USP Caffeine Powder - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045R ... UTF8&psc=1

I mixed it together in a bowl with a little bit of arrowroot flour to help it from caking. Used this pill maker as well: HOME CAPSULE MACHINE into size "00" pure gelatin caps.

Dan Wich's excellent site Directory of foods and supplements without questionable additives - Toxinless helped me find a lot of these products. There is a custom Ray Peat section as well for sourcing "Peaty" supplements and food with the fewest additives/excipients: Ray Peat Resources - Toxinless

What does USP mean?