Surrogates For Thyroid Hormone

Discussion in 'Thyroid and Hormones' started by haidut, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    This post is directed at those who have issues with large doses of caffeine. For a long time caffeine caused me to have "jitters", even when taken with enough sugar. Recently I was reading on the design of the RedBull energy drink and how taurine was added to mitigate the caffeine "jitters". Taurine is not bad idea but for many people is too sedative. So, I thought of doing another combo - caffeine and niacinamide. Niacinamide in higher doses acts like a benzo (Valium) and should mitigate the nervousness caused by caffeine. Then I remembered Ray's articles about caffeine and aspirin acting like thyroid hormone and decided to combine them all together. In theory, all 3 compounds should give a boost in energy and have been used (separately) in various studies for athletes. So, after much experimentation I am happy to report that I found a combo that gives me sustained (7-8 hours) of 98.5 degrees temperature and pulse of about 90, without taking any thyroid hormones in between.
    So, the mix is this: 325mg aspirin, 200mg caffeine, 500mg niacinamide. This is what I would call a single dose. Today I took 3 times that dose in a single sitting for a total of 1g aspirin, 600mg caffeine and 1500mg niacinamide.
    Within 15min I felt the energy/wakefulness surge caused by caffeine but I did not feel the adrenalin surge I normally get. After about an hour I stabilized in a very nice highly alert but calm state that lasted throughout the entire day. I measured my pulse and temp every 2 hours and they both stayed consistent as well. With normal food intake and no additional thyroid hormone or other stimulants like anti-serotonin drugs I maintained this state for more than 8 hours and then slowly started to subside. I did not crash, like it is often reported after a big caffeine intake.
    So, I just wanted to share this with people who have trouble with caffeine or want to ramp up metabolism but do not want to take thyroid. Bottom line - it seems that niacinamide both mitigates the potential adrenalin surge of large caffeine dose and gives an additional energy boost.
    Next step is to add vitamin B1 to the mix:):
    Anyone else want to try this combo as well and report back?
     
  2. Lin

    Lin Member

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    This sounds good! Dang, I just started thyroid 5 days ago. Maybe I could try a lower dose. What do you use for caffeine?
    I drink coffee, take aspirin and niacinamide anyway...
     
  3. honeybee

    honeybee Member

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    Haidut are you taking a caffeine pill or beverage?
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I am taking caffeine pills, bought from Amazon. It's supposed to be pure caffeine without any additives. For me, this is easier than drinking 15+ cups of coffee daily. It's now more than 16 hours after taking the combo and I am still feeling a residual effect! Nothing unpleasant, just strong desire to keep reading or doing things.
     
  5. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    Thanks as always, haidut. I looked at caffeine pills/powders a couple times but never made a decision. Can I ask what brand you use?

    Thx
     
  6. paper_clips43

    paper_clips43 Member

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    wow! I have basically been doing this exact mixture for the past three days.
    I do it twice per day with my meat meals. Breakfast and dinner.
    Maybe thats why I have been feeling the healthiest I have ever felt in my entire life :)
    Also I had a temp of 98.8 (at 3 pm) two hours after my carrot salad!
     
  7. Filip1993

    Filip1993 Member

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    I'm trying this combo today, will report back tonight.
     
  8. SQu

    SQu Member

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    Also JUST started thyroid - yesterday! But definitely been looking for exactly this and am going to do it too, adjusting and keeping close eye on pulse. Thanks!
     
  9. cbar09

    cbar09 Member

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    Haidut thanks for the interesting post!

    I've tried this today with my own homemade pill concoction. I feel nothing short of amazing.

    For those who are curious, these are the products I used to make the pill:

    Beyond a Century Pure Niacinamide Powder (no longer produced but here is a USP alternative: http://www.lotioncrafter.com/vitamin-b3 ... e-usp.html)
    Vedco Aspirin Powder - http://www.entirelypets.com/aspow1pounby.html
    USP Caffeine Powder - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045R ... UTF8&psc=1

    I mixed it together in a bowl with a little bit of arrowroot flour to help it from caking. Used this pill maker as well: http://www.capsuleconnection.com/capsule-machine into size "00" pure gelatin caps.

    Dan Wich's excellent site http://www.toxinless.com/ helped me find a lot of these products. There is a custom Ray Peat section as well for sourcing "Peaty" supplements and food with the fewest additives/excipients: http://www.toxinless.com/peat/
     
  10. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    Seems like a great idea.

    But let's not forget coffee has other qualities besides caffeine, notably the effect of speeding the detox of blood by the liver, and that includes estrogen detox.
    The effect isn't as pronounced as a coffee enema ( 1 liter drank has the same effect as one enema) but is still appreciable.
     
  11. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Thanks for the post, Haidut. I've been thinking about doing this myself lately. The thing is, I already take those substances, just not usually at the same time. For example, I take niacinamide and B1 in the morning and have had coffee around this time. But if I'm taking aspirin that day, it might not be til later in the day after eating a meal.

    So today I will see what affect I get from those things together. I've already had a couple cups of coffee this morning, so I just took 100 mg. caffeine just now with my 500 mg. niacinamide and 325 mg. aspirin (in the form of Alka Seltzer which I dissolve in 1/4 c. water and add 1/2 c. OJ and sugar. The AS has baking soda in it). I took B1 too, as always.

    I'll report if there's any noticeable effect from taking this stuff at the same time.
     
  12. Filip1993

    Filip1993 Member

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    I did 200 mg caffeine, 650 mg aspirin and 500 mg niacinamide. Great temps, pulse around 85 bpm and very good energy. How much b1 do you recommend haidut?
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    That's the brand I use:
    http://www.amazon.com/Nutrakey-CAFFEINE ... s=caffeine

    As usual, the disclaimer that I am not pushing it in any way. Any other brand with pure caffeine should work as well.
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I posted some studies where several diseases responded to 600mg oral B1. Also, I posted another study with humans that found 1500mg of B1 maintained high enough plasma concentrations for 4-5 hours to be useful for Alzheimer treatment. A study on Alzheimer used 7g-8g a day, but I'd say this is an overkill for people without AD. Yet another study found that 1500mg+ lowers lactate significantly to be of use for professional athletes in football/rugby.
    I personally take 1500mg when needed (in one sitting) and also take the same dosage about 1 hour before drinking. Thiamine (B1) makes you metabolize alcohol about 2x-3x faster, so no hangover the next morning even with serious partying! I am not advocating getting wasted though, especially considering the estrogenic effects of alcohol.
     
  15. Peata

    Peata Member

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    How much of each pill are you taking in this twice per day dose?
     
  16. paper_clips43

    paper_clips43 Member

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    Well actually I have been using coffee and pure aspirin powder.
    I make my drink with about 4 ounces liquid and 1-2 tablespoons gelatin heating up on the stove.
    I add 6 tablespoons sugar, some salt, a tablespoon of instant coffee, and a little butter.
    I put about 800 mg of aspiring powder in a glass with an ounce of boiling water.
    I drink my coffee drink while I eat my meat meal and take a niacin-amide and caclium glucarate.
    Then I shoot down the aspirin and drink the last sip of the coffee drink.

    This might be more of an explanation you were hoping for although I felt I had to elaborate.
    I estimate I am getting 70 mg of caffeine, 800 mg aspirin, and 500 mg niacin amide.
    Along with 25 grams protein, 60 grams sugar, and 12 grams of fat.
     
  17. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Thank you, that's helpful.

    Are you also on thyroid? Did you not feel as good on it as you did when you added these supplements like this?
     
  18. paper_clips43

    paper_clips43 Member

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    Correct.
    I was starting to wonder about the potency of my Cynoplus and Cynomel.
    Never the less I took it diligently for almost 6 weeks now.
    The best increase in temperature came just a couple days ago though.
    I upped my protein intake by eating more meat and cheese.
    I also started eating more sugar. I might have eaten a little less fat too.
    Of course I have also been doing the Buteyko breathing method several times a day.
    I think they are all factors although that aspirin, coffee, and niacin amide combo feels particularly good.
     
  19. honeybee

    honeybee Member

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    Anyone experience issues getting to sleep with this combo?
    I would like to try it, but I need my sleep. :)
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I found out that if I take at least 500mg of niacinamide for every 200mg of caffeine sleep is not an issue. However, today I was experimenting with 250mg niacinamide for every 200mg of caffeine and as of 9:30pm I am still very energetic and not sleepy, which may be a problem for some people. The combo was taken at 11am today, so judge for yourself if that may be an issue.
    Btw, I would like to report that for me adding 1500mg thiamine (B1) to the combo results in an even bigger energy increase. My diet is the same, and consists mainly of cheese sticks extra sweet tea, and Pepsi Throwback (with sugar). As of yesterday I have stopped taking Cynoplus and now take this combo exclusively. Today I walked 7 miles without breaking a sweat and not feeling the slightest bit tired. Almost machine-like energy, but not manic or anything like that. Tomorrow I will try to take the combo in 3 separate doses rather than combined and see if that changes anything.
     
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