Caffeine Has Same Effects On Metabolism As Dinitrophenol

[BibleBeliever]

Not enough, I had to use at least 5 grams or even more at least in my case. I think the studies used at least 3+ grams in regards to cortisol reduction.

Any worries of vitamin c overdose?

Vitamin C overdose/deficiency symptoms, benefits, side effects

I tried high dosages for a few days and at first it gave energy, increased blood flow, but then I found fatigue and strange tingling sensations in the head and around the eyes, cheeks. These subsided after I stopped usage.
Vitamin c also increases absorption of iron.

 

[Regina]

Tried three more grams. My cognition seems to have improved in that intrusive thoughts and impulsivity has reduced. I'd really like a pure supplement, though.

Back to inosine, it's an adenosine receptor agonist much like CBD (cannabidiol), so this might be a safer way to gain the reported anxiolytic benefits of CBD that appear all over the internet.

I also found this thread, which has some erroneous assumptions, but it's informative: TREATING ANXIETY SAFELY & EFFECTIVELY - Mental Health

Thanks for the link Dave. I am also going to try inosine. wrt the link, I'm still searching for ways to reduce norepinephrine (without crashing dopamine) AND without lowering (my already low) blood pressure. According the linked thread, Propranolol reduces NE (blocks adrenalin) but further searching says it is used to treat hyper tension. I think I greatly improved my social anxiety and fear (aikido beats it out of you; so I just keep going. Go figure). But it comes back pretty easily. (super easy to psyche me out or induce negative-self talk; both are damoclean swords over my head). Sleep is still a challenge. I'm still working on getting that right. I've made friends with the damoclean sword over my head during the day; but I wish it would go away when I want to sleep. However, I wish to avoid benzos or other harmful stuff noted in the linked article. I was wondering if you had experience with some of the "safe" ones on the list??
Of course, I have theanine (it's not enough to kill the beast) and magnesium (ditto). Relora sounds pleasant (won't be enough though).
Cheers

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks for the link Dave. I am also going to try inosine. wrt the link, I'm still searching for ways to reduce norepinephrine (without crashing dopamine) AND without lowering (my already low) blood pressure. According the linked thread, Propranolol reduces NE (blocks adrenalin) but further searching says it is used to treat hyper tension. I think I greatly improved my social anxiety and fear (aikido beats it out of you; so I just keep going. Go figure). But it comes back pretty easily. (super easy to psyche me out or induce negative-self talk; both are damoclean swords over my head). Sleep is still a challenge. I'm still working on getting that right. I've made friends with the damoclean sword over my head during the day; but I wish it would go away when I want to sleep. However, I wish to avoid benzos or other harmful stuff noted in the linked article. I was wondering if you had experience with some of the "safe" ones on the list??
Of course, I have theanine (it's not enough to kill the beast) and magnesium (ditto). Relora sounds pleasant (won't be enough though).
Cheers

Niacinamide's alright; he lists taurine as to be avoided, but if you consume it chroncially I don't see a problem. It does lower BP though.

1) GARUM ARMORICUM (brands: STABILIUM; ADAPTON)

2) MAGNESIUM

3) BACOPA MONNIERI

4) RHODIOLA ROSEA

5) RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE) (Thank you to AMPA-OMEGA for mentioning this!)

6) THEANINE

7) LOW DOSE NALTREXONE (LDN)

AND POSSIBLY:

8) AFOBAZOLE

9) TIANEPTINE

10) ESCITALOPRAM

11) PIRACETAM (at 9.8 - 24g total daily dosage)

12) ANIRACETAM

13) PROPRANOLOL

14) CLONIDINE (Thanks goes to STEVE_86 for mentioning this!)

15) INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL) (Thank you to BRAINFOGGED for suggesting this!)

I've tried Bacopa, aniracetam, and clonidine. Clonidine will lower BP and has a vicious rebound. I cannot recommend the racetams, as they're cholinergic. Bacopa has a high concentration of heavy metals.

 

[Regina]

Niacinamide's alright; he lists taurine as to be avoided, but if you consume it chroncially I don't see a problem. It does lower BP though.

1) GARUM ARMORICUM (brands: STABILIUM; ADAPTON)

2) MAGNESIUM

3) BACOPA MONNIERI

4) RHODIOLA ROSEA

5) RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE) (Thank you to AMPA-OMEGA for mentioning this!)

6) THEANINE

7) LOW DOSE NALTREXONE (LDN)

AND POSSIBLY:

8) AFOBAZOLE

9) TIANEPTINE

10) ESCITALOPRAM

11) PIRACETAM (at 9.8 - 24g total daily dosage)

12) ANIRACETAM

13) PROPRANOLOL

14) CLONIDINE (Thanks goes to STEVE_86 for mentioning this!)

15) INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL) (Thank you to BRAINFOGGED for suggesting this!)

I've tried Bacopa, aniracetam, and clonidine. Clonidine will lower BP and has a vicious rebound. I cannot recommend the racetams, as they're cholinergic. Bacopa has a high concentration of heavy metals.

Thx Mate. Will see how I like inosine.

 

[sladerunner69]

Anyone getting over a gram of caffeine per day these days? I'm doing about that.

Are you really taking that much? Thought you mentionend small amoutns of caffiene giving you itnense anxiety symptoms. What impelmentaitons would you say have remedied this the most? Bag breathing?

 

[DaveFoster]

Are you really taking that much? Thought you mentionend small amoutns of caffiene giving you itnense anxiety symptoms. What impelmentaitons would you say have remedied this the most? Bag breathing?

L-theanine and progesterone. @TubZy says that 5a-DHP synergizes nicely with coffee and acts like niacinamide.

 

[TubZy]

Any worries of vitamin c overdose?

Vitamin C overdose/deficiency symptoms, benefits, side effects

I tried high dosages for a few days and at first it gave energy, increased blood flow, but then I found fatigue and strange tingling sensations in the head and around the eyes, cheeks. These subsided after I stopped usage.
Vitamin c also increases absorption of iron.

Hey..no issues with it. I just go my bowel tolerance though, haven't had any issues

 

[artlange]

Thx Mate. Will see how I like inosine.

has inosine lowered your norepinephrine? I'm taking lisuride and my dopamine is up, and I am a little jittery from the norepinephrine, and am looking for some relief, perhaps from inosine.

 

[Regina]

has inosine lowered your norepinephrine? I'm taking lisuride and my dopamine is up, and I am a little jittery from the norepinephrine, and am looking for some relief, perhaps from inosine.

Yes. I'd give inosine a shot. And IME, I don't seem to require it anymore.
That might change if and when I return to aikido though.

 

[artlange]

Yes. I'd give inosine a shot. And IME, I don't seem to require it anymore.

I have it on order. Meanwhile, I'll take Taurine, niacianmide and aspirin.

 

[flame900]

Hi all,

As you many of you probably know, back in the 1930s there was a very popular drug for weight loss called dinitrophenol. It works by uncoupling mitochondria (just like aspirin does in high doses), which makes them release energy as heat instead of ATP. Due to several high profile fatal hyperthermia accidents, dinitrophenol is banned in many countries and is viewed as toxic. Ray Peat has spoken favorable of it and compared it to caffeine.
I found a study that compares the effect of the two drugs and it looks like they have almost identical effects on oxygen consumption and metabolism:
Effects of Caffeine on Metabolism and Mitochondria Biogenesis in Rhabdomyosarcoma Cells Compared with 2,4-Dinitrophenol

"...This work explored the effects on mitochondrial biosynthesis of caffeine and DNP in human rhabdomyosarcoma cells, a model organism for metabolic observation. We show that treatment of muscle cells with caffeine or DNP will induce the PGC-1α mRNA and protein in a dose- and time-sensitive manner. We also demonstrate that caffeine or DNP increases mitochondrial content as well as enhances oxidative and total metabolism. These are the first observations that directly compare caffeine with DNP and demonstrate the effects of both treatments on glycolytic and oxidative metabolism in skeletal muscle cells."

Also from the study - caffeine increased Ogygen Consumption Rate (OCR) by 900%, however the lower dose caffeine increased metabolism more than the higher one:
"...Cells treated with caffeine at 250 or 500 μM significantly increased total metabolism; however, caffeine at 250 μM increased metabolic rate to a greater extent than caffeine at 500 μM"

So, the question is how much caffeine does one need to take to get to 250μM concentration? This study offers a hint:
http://interactive.snm.org/docs/Caffein ... eptors.pdf

"...Half-maximal displacement was achieved at a plasma caffeine concentration of 67μM, which corresponds to 450mg in a 70-kg subject or approximately 4.5 cups of coffee"

So, if 450mg achieve 67μM, then (assuming linear dose-dependency) you need about 1680mg caffeine to achieve the concentration from the first study, shown to increase metabolism. Needless to say, I would not take nearly as much caffeine at once but in divided doses it is very doable. I am currently taking 400mg x3 a day for a total of 1200mg.

Interestingly enough, this dosage 1200mg-1400mg is very close to the dosage shown to increase lifespan by 52% in the study I posted couple of weeks ago...

what would be a high dose aspirin you would take to feel the mitochondria uncoupling effects?