Protection Against EMF / Wi-fi

[mt_dreams]

Won't "Mu Metal" work? Also I have heard In High EMF areas the cage should only be 3 sided otherwise you risk trapping frequencies in your cage and increasing exposure.

This is true in setups that have leaks. For ex, the diy pics from above most likely have leaks. the same goes with netting which have a curtain opening, or ones that use materials like Velcro. If you can't get a fully sealed setup then having a 5/6 or 4/5 setup may be the safer option in high EMF zones. I think this is more the case when you are very close to things like cell towers or your bed backs onto your fridge, a high voltage electrical panel, etc.

 

[haidut]

In fairness, all of those sites that list studies are cherrypicking because they have an agenda. Go look at the list of studies about the dangers of milk on vegan websites, if you just look at that research taken out of context, you'd never drink a glass of milk again.

So when you go to the systematic reviews, that's where the evidence starts against EMF starts to become weak.

I'm filing it in my 'not buying the scare-mongering' folder and focus on things that have a lot stronger evidence for them to bother about.

Of course he studies are cherry picked since they are supposed to bolster a point. The bigger point is that there are hundreds of those studies going back decades, performed by independent scientists who generally stand nothing to gain from proving that EMF are dangerous.
The fear-mongering campaign about EMF is really not there. It is the exact opposite. The official position of the FDA and CDC is that EMF is completely harmless. That is something to doubt. Not the fact that EMF has an effect on organisms. Yes, ionizing radiation is more dangerous, and PUFA is more dangerous. But the issue to me is about

This is true in setups that have leaks. For ex, the diy pics from above most likely have leaks. the same goes with netting which have a curtain opening, or ones that use materials like Velcro. If you can't get a fully sealed setup then having a 5/6 or 4/5 setup may be the safer option in high EMF zones. I think this is more the case when you are very close to things like cell towers or your bed backs onto your fridge, a high voltage electrical panel, etc.

I think this should be testable by bringing the cellphone inside the shielded area, right? Regardless how many of the 6 sides of the cube are covered with the faraday garment, the test is to see if you get a signal on your cell when you take inside the shielded area. The same can be done with a wifi router to test the 2.4Ghz nd 5Ghz shielding. No signal on any of these means nothing is getting trapped.

 

[mt_dreams]

I think this should be testable by bringing the cellphone inside the shielded area, right? Regardless how many of the 6 sides of the cube are covered with the faraday garment, the test is to see if you get a signal on your cell when you take inside the shielded area. The same can be done with a wifi router to test the 2.4Ghz nd 5Ghz shielding. No signal on any of these means nothing is getting trapped.

improper cages can end up acting like an amplifier, not signal wise, rather magnetically. So it would be difficult to test using a regular cell phone. This is more a professional issue, not a home issue. I believe the calculation is velocity divided by wavelength. This will only be for extreme home cases (like for ex having 12 smar meters on the reverse side of ur bedroom wall), not for cases where you are looking to block other peoples wifi signals. Cell phone signal will also not be a problem, unless you've got one attached to your roof, in which case I pray for you.


extra general info relating to signals & pulses of emf:

Wifi does it's most damage when you are 0-20 feet from the router.
NEVER have your router next to ur comp, tv, or wherever you spend most of your time when at home. Spend the extra cash and get extended cables and put the router as far from your living area as possible. One hour right next to your router does just as much damaged as 8 hours being hit by multiple signals farther than 20 feet.

if you don't use wifi for wireless devices, hook up a ethernet cable to ur comp and disable the wifi on the router & ur comp. I've got 3 cables going to places I use my laptop as I don't have the home size to avoid somewhat close contact. I only turn the wifi on when I need it.

If you're particularly sensitive, or want to minimize exposure:

If you have a smart meter, put a shield on it. it will still pump out enough signal to reach the next closest meter. Utility companies have purchased models that are able to send the signal a couple of km, which is useless for 99% of us.

Don't buy a new fridge if your fridge shares the same wall as your bed.

If for some reason you spend lots of time near a power box, shield both the box & the tubing.

Avoid long distance trips in an electric car, as it's like your sitting & resting your feet on 2 cpu's. Even though conventional cars run on dc, some newer models are showing just as much magnetic radiation. It's the same issue as the new fridges.



About 5 years ago I did some work for some daycares for a couple of months, and I started noticing I was waking up tired/cranky every so often. I ended up logging it and realized that it coincided with 2 locations that had several signal reinforcers in every room. It's pretty crazy what we'll endure for the advancement of this addiction.

 

[Such_Saturation]

!
Such, check this out maybe we need to open a business:Electromagnetic Field Shielding Fabrics

Hmmmm...

 

[allblues]

Hmmmm...

That's a swell idea actually
Just knit yourself a faraday cage for the private parts, and maybe a little cap?
All set to face the 21st century!

Let me know when you launch your first collection

 

[SarahBeara]

Of course he studies are cherry picked since they are supposed to bolster a point. The bigger point is that there are hundreds of those studies going back decades, performed by independent scientists who generally stand nothing to gain from proving that EMF are dangerous.
The fear-mongering campaign about EMF is really not there. It is the exact opposite. The official position of the FDA and CDC is that EMF is completely harmless. That is something to doubt. Not the fact that EMF has an effect on organisms. Yes, ionizing radiation is more dangerous, and PUFA is more dangerous. But the issue to me is about

There may well be hundreds of studies, but that doesn't matter if the studies' designs were not robust or low on the ladder of evidence, because there ARE really well designed studies out there that find no consistent effect.

Again I bring forward the milk analogy, there are hundreds of studies implying milk causes everything from cancer to diabetes, but when you examine the totality, the picture looks a lot different.

Just because the CDC and the FDA don't think something is harmful doesn't automatically make it so, that's like reverse appeal to authority.

Give me one well designed double blind study in humans, just one. Until I see that, it remains totally hypothetical.

I think that most of the damage ascribed to EMF in observational studies is more likely to be caused by blue light from devices and the disruption of sleep patterns.

 

[Agent207]

Some years ago I used to think the same about EMF dangers...then I started do dig under the surface doing quite a bit of research to finally realize the dark side and its long term deleterious effect to health -specially on children/women- and nowadays that the emfs we are exposed to are 10x more than a few years ago and growing with no pause. You'll have to do your research and have your take on it. By the time I dedicated to read about (hundreds of hours, and not mainstream first google search links), theres at least very strong reasons to apply whats called the "precautionary principle". I doubt anytime soon nobody whos done good research gonna take the time to explain you why, becouse its a bit of tricky subject and context to understand on its own. Not black and white, so don't expect quick conclusive answers.

I myself think the future is wireless, but not with the crappy technology that is used today.

Tons and tons of money and interests involved on it, btw.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Some years ago I used to think the same about EMF dangers...then I started do dig under the surface of tons of research to realize its long term deleterious to health, specially nowadays that th emfs are around us at 10x more than a few years ago. You'll have to do your research and have your take on it. By the time a dedicated to read about (hundreds of hours, and not mainstream first google search links), theres at least very strong reasons to apply whats called the "precautionary principle". I doubt anytime soon nobody whos done good research gonna take the time to explain you why, becouse its a bit of tricky subject and context to understand on its whole. Not black and white, so don't expect quick conclusive answers.

Tons and tons of money involved on it, btw.

But what was your previous opinion based on?

 

[Agent207]

On nothing solid to say the truth, typical random first google searches and "expert" opinions that non-radiactive emf is like fresh air on the face... the mainstream info the average joe get access to.

 

[Suikerbuik]

There may well be hundreds of studies, but that doesn't matter if the studies' designs were not robust or low on the ladder of evidence, because there ARE really well designed studies out there that find no consistent effect.

Again I bring forward the milk analogy, there are hundreds of studies implying milk causes everything from cancer to diabetes, but when you examine the totality, the picture looks a lot different.

Just because the CDC and the FDA don't think something is harmful doesn't automatically make it so, that's like reverse appeal to authority.

Give me one well designed double blind study in humans, just one. Until I see that, it remains totally hypothetical.

I think that most of the damage ascribed to EMF in observational studies is more likely to be caused by blue light from devices and the disruption of sleep patterns.

What makes you have the expertise if I may ask? And what effects are you looking for?

Why would one put humans above rats or mice? I mean of course we're likely to react differently, but if their proteins and molecules respond to the energy, why would humans be an exception?

Possibly it's the same as diet choices; you can either chase it to be near perfect, as some people on this forum prefer and interpret Peat's work, or go for something less perfect. From what I've seen, and guessing you're not electrosensitive, I am not saying it will kill you, but it certainly could be a distraction.

Just my 2ct.

 

[SarahBeara]

I worked as a scientist in clinical trials for a time. I have seen compounds that virtually bring mice and rats back from the dead, the theory that it works the same in humans could be the soundest science in the world and everyone agrees the mechanism of action should be the same. And then it's tested in a clinical trial and it actually harms.

There's a reason why mice and rat studies should ONLY be used to produce hypotheses for how things MIGHT work in humans. There is no, I repeat no substitute for a clinical trial and if anyone says otherwise I would suspect a charlatan in my midst.

I'm a big proponent for precautionary principle but there needs to a half decent basis on which to assert it. At the moment it's self proclaimed EMF sensitive people who when actually tested in double blind trials, it turns out there is no consistent effect.

I also know what it feels like to be really really sure something is harming you, I was convinced sugar would cause every one of my health problems, and had a visceral negative reaction to it. The nocebo effect is strong, so that's why double blind trials are so important. We are amazing creatures at fooling ourselves.

I'm not trying to dictate what anyone should or shouldn't do. Just offering an alternate perspective just in case we could use our limited time and energy to focus on things that really improve our health and well-being.

My 2c :)

 

[Suikerbuik]

Okay, I get what you’re coming from, thank you for your response. I cannot really judge about electro hypersensitive people, as I don’t consider myself electro hypersensitive and thus not limit my exposure to the extreme. However subtile issues re-occur over and over again when within 2-4 ft of a router for some time or when calling someone longer than usual. Coincidental? Could be…I don’t know. Certainly I am not focussed on or avoiding the situation, it just happens consistently. Although it is dependent on my own physiological state too, if I am tired the effects are more profound.

Given mice studies showing a certain level of metabolic impaiment, immune dysfunction and/or altered gene expression, I am not convinced that it won’t do anything to us. Until it is really proven that it does not affect us, I just do what is reasonable to do while still have a life, i.e. don’t sleep with 3g next to my head, have adapters in my room unplugged at night, have no router in my sleeping room.

 

[Makrosky]

This concerns me...it's now become inescapable. Subliminal stress. EMR (the kind found in your microwave and your WiFi router) leads to chronically elevated serotonin. Alterations of cognitive function and 5-HT system in rats after long term microwave exposure. - PubMed - NCBI

Ok Greg, I'm not an electrical engineer so I don't know how this works, the study talks about : average power density of 5, 10, 20 or 30 mW/cm2 respectively. How much is this compared to what you get from the wifis in the avergage urban flat ???

 

[whit]

I don't know much about EMF so it helps me to see the spectrum of wavelengths.
So there's a pic below if needed.

I've heard that grounding is somewhat protective, but have not tried to verify. I'd be interested if anyone else has.

It does work for me, but there's a lot of garbage online. Nothing beats being outside barefoot in the sun.

What I've understood is EMF interrupts our frequencies at best. At higher intensity damage can be done.
Most just find it hard to sleep in a field. It's disruptive of deep sleep in my experience, yet subtle.

 

[FredSonoma]

I currently live on the first floor of an apartment building, and the electrical box for my individual apartment is in my actual bedroom. I am convinced that when I am home in the apartment I feel much worse - more tired, unable to focus, constant need to divert my attention on the internet, my digestion feels really clogged, and I don't get hungry. I also don't seem to sleep well at all - barely dream and feel like I'm 10% awake the whole night. When I sleep somewhere else I feel very different. Is there any way for me to make some kind of case for this to be able to break my lease? Or is that very unlikely? What if I bought one of those meters?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I currently live on the first floor of an apartment building, and the electrical box for my individual apartment is in my actual bedroom. I am convinced that when I am home in the apartment I feel much worse - more tired, unable to focus, constant need to divert my attention on the internet, my digestion feels really clogged, and I don't get hungry. I also don't seem to sleep well at all - barely dream and feel like I'm 10% awake the whole night. When I sleep somewhere else I feel very different. Is there any way for me to make some kind of case for this to be able to break my lease? Or is that very unlikely? What if I bought one of those meters?

Have you tried opening the windows to exchange the air?

 

[FredSonoma]

Have you tried opening the windows to exchange the air?

My room is actually the "office" for the apartment, so there are no windows in the actual room I sleep in. There are windows in the common room, but no cross ventilation (meaning there are only windows on one wall). I do feel that the air is stuffy, and that I feel slightly better when I open up all the doors and windows. But there is no central air circulation at all - just an AC / heating unit connected directly to the outdoors.

 

[Such_Saturation]

My room is actually the "office" for the apartment, so there are no windows in the actual room I sleep in. There are windows in the common room, but no cross ventilation (meaning there are only windows on one wall). I do feel that the air is stuffy, and that I feel slightly better when I open up all the doors and windows. But there is no central air circulation at all - just an AC / heating unit connected directly to the outdoors.

I find it has the biggest part in indoor sickness. There have been a few experiments done about indoor oxygen and carbon dioxide levels and mental function.

 

[mt_dreams]

I currently live on the first floor of an apartment building, and the electrical box for my individual apartment is in my actual bedroom. I am convinced that when I am home in the apartment I feel much worse - more tired, unable to focus, constant need to divert my attention on the internet, my digestion feels really clogged, and I don't get hungry. I also don't seem to sleep well at all - barely dream and feel like I'm 10% awake the whole night. When I sleep somewhere else I feel very different. Is there any way for me to make some kind of case for this to be able to break my lease? Or is that very unlikely? What if I bought one of those meters?

What's the layout of apartment? Is it an open floor concept with a spare room? Does the lease say one bedroom apt? Legally speaking, if you leased it as a one bedroom, then that bedroom (in most places) needs to have a window or second exit out of the room. If this is the case, then check your local fire code. you would be able to break the lease for this.

 

[FredSonoma]

I find it has the biggest part in indoor sickness. There have been a few experiments done about indoor oxygen and carbon dioxide levels and mental function.

Awesome thanks, I'll keep that in mind and try to keep my windows open more.