Protection Against EMF / Wi-fi

[tara]

Would a Faradays cage have to be quite that complete and fine grid to make a difference?
Would a hoop/tunnel of chicken wire make a difference? What if the ends weren't also covered?

Although it wouldn't help against regular mossies.

 

[haidut]

Would a Faradays cage have to be quite that complete and fine grid to make a difference?
Would a hoop/tunnel of chicken wire make a difference? What if the ends weren't also covered?

Although it wouldn't help against regular mossies.

It depends on the wavelength. For wifi, which is mostly 2.4Ghz you would need a mesh with holes no bigger than 10cm (0.1m) and likely much smaller than that for good blockage. So, a chicken coop net should work. See this discussion on Reddit.
Blocking wifi or bluetooth with a Faraday cage, what size holes? • /r/askscience

"...The average wave length of wifi is lambda=(speed of light)/(frequency) where for wifi frequency=2.4GHz=2.4109 1/s and the speed of light is c = 3108, therefore lambda = 0.1 m.
Now, for the Faraday cage to block the signal, the space between the bars has to be significantly shorter - so if you build your faraday cage with distance between the bars shorter than 0.1m, it should block the signal."

To block the 5Gzh frequency, which 802.11a routers also use, you'd need holes half as big as for the 2.4Gzh frequency, so no more than 5cm and preferably no more than an inch wide/diameter. Bottom line, the higher the frequency, the smaller the holes and the smaller the better. Also, a Faraday cage for wifi should also block cellphone radiation since most cellphones operate in frequency lower than wifi so the wavelength is bigger/longer and as such bigger holes will do.

 

[tara]

Thanks Haidut.

 

[SarahBeara]

I think everybody in this thread should read this discussion on Reddit:
Science AMA Series: I'm Paul Héroux, a Professor of Toxicology and Health Effects of Electromagnetism at McGill University in Montreal, Canada. I do research on health effects of electromagnetic radiation at all frequencies, both in terms of disease risks and therapeutic medical applications. AMA! • /r/science

I am surprised that people here think the studies were only done on rats. EMF has proven negative effects, with studies going back to the 1950s. And, as the professor in the AMA above says, it is almost exclusively directed at thyroid function, and has been replicated in humans. As far as I have studied it, the effects are mediated through the so-called calcium channels so things like magnesium and cyproheptadine should help negate the effects. Selenium has also been shown to help.

Sorry haidut, I don't mean to be contrary but extraordinary claims do call for extraordinary evidence.

That discussion pretty much eviscerates his research as the methodology was flawed and the conclusions stretched beyond the evidence.

If EMF was an issue we'd have lots of good double blinded RCT's to that effect. In fact, a review double-blinded studies of purported EMF sensitive people found no consistent effect.

 

[Such_Saturation]

EMF sensitive people

I'm not sure that should be the point of research...

 

[haidut]

Sorry haidut, I don't mean to be contrary but extraordinary claims do call for extraordinary evidence.

That discussion pretty much eviscerates his research as the methodology was flawed and the conclusions stretched beyond the evidence.

If EMF was an issue we'd have lots of good double blinded RCT's to that effect. In fact, a review double-blinded studies of purported EMF sensitive people found no consistent effect.

I pointed to that thread simply because the guy is considered the pre-eminent researcher in the Western world on EMF health effects and Reddit thought he would be the most apt person to ask. The research is not limited to his work only. Like I said, there are studies going back to the 1950s showing negative effects of EMF. The links below list some of them, and as you can see even this limited list in the first link has several hundred of them.
Scientific studies on EMFs - Powerwatch
Important New Russian Research on Cell Phone Radiation’s Effect on Cognitive and Other Functions in Children | electromagnetichealth.org
Dr. Magda Havas, PhD » International Experts’ Perspective on the Health Effects of Electromagnetic Fields (EMF) and Electromagnetic Radiation (EMR).

Here is a recent popular press article about that issue as well:
A bunch of scientists are freaking out about the long-term health effects of cellphones

The Russians have a government committee headed by a person with the rank of a Minister. It is called the "Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection"
Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection


Modern western-world science does not really contest the fact all radiation MAY have effects on living organisms. The issue with EMF was that up until recently, the official claim was that there was no known mechanism (read "receptor") through which EMF would cause its effects. Now that the calcium channel mechanism is more or less established for EMF it comes down to determining how serious the effects are and how long it takes to manifest. Even if EMF does nothing except suppress metabolism that would be serious enough.

 

[SarahBeara]

In fairness, all of those sites that list studies are cherrypicking because they have an agenda. Go look at the list of studies about the dangers of milk on vegan websites, if you just look at that research taken out of context, you'd never drink a glass of milk again.

So when you go to the systematic reviews, that's where the evidence starts against EMF starts to become weak.

I'm filing it in my 'not buying the scare-mongering' folder and focus on things that have a lot stronger evidence for them to bother about.

 

[mt_dreams]

Those pics are of diy faraday cages, which is why they bring humor when one looks at them. Professionally made nets (cages) will look just like mosquito nets. I've seen pics of beds with banisters with these nets, and they look quite luxurious. There's also an advantage of being able to keep your phone close by & on during the night, which seems to be a desire for many.

Seeing as the first gen cell phone effects on the Scandinavian countries produced no change in how we go about introducing new technologies, it appears anyone who concerns themselves with potential issues with regards to these technologies gets labelled a luddite right from the start.

 

[FredSonoma]

Those pics are of diy faraday cages, which is why they bring humor when one looks at them. Professionally made nets (cages) will look just like mosquito nets. I've seen pics of beds with banisters with these nets, and they look quite luxurious. There's also an advantage of being able to keep your phone close by & on during the night, which seems to be a desire for many.

Seeing as the first gen cell phone effects on the Scandinavian countries produced no change in how we go about introducing new technologies, it appears anyone who concerns themselves with potential issues with regards to these technologies gets labelled a luddite right from the start.

I'm not understanding exactly what is needed for these faraday cages - but I own one of these tents: Privacy Pop Bed Tent Black , what if I surrounded it in this metal mesh - would that do the job? And can EMF really not travel through this metal mesh but it can travel through walls?

(Ok that last question might be dumb, I could just test it by seeing if my phone picks up Wi-Fi signals right?)

 

[mt_dreams]

I'm not understanding exactly what is needed for these faraday cages - but I own one of these tents: Privacy Pop Bed Tent Black , what if I surrounded it in this metal mesh - would that do the job? And can EMF really not travel through this metal mesh but it can travel through walls?

(Ok that last question might be dumb, I could just test it by seeing if my phone picks up Wi-Fi signals right?)

That's a cool looking bed setup. If it was fitted with the proper mesh, it could end up being a faraday cage, though the zipper might cause some difficulties as any non mesh area may allow signal in.... though I've tested my friends setup and I didn't get any signal even when I have canopy sightly open. You could always drop the mesh all the way to the ground to avoid using a zipper with the cage in the event this ends up being a problem.

a general pic of a professional square model being sold can be seen on the link. Canopies

With regards to a proper faraday cage , no wifi or cell signal will be able to be detected inside. There are different strengths of metals sometimes needed in the science field, but most should work for home use. If you're getting signal in a faraday cage, then there's a leak or the material used is below grade.

 

[FredSonoma]

That's a cool looking bed setup. If it was fitted with the proper mesh, it could end up being a faraday cage, though the zipper might cause some difficulties as any non mesh area may allow signal in.... though I've tested my friends setup and I didn't get any signal even when I have canopy sightly open. You could always drop the mesh all the way to the ground to avoid using a zipper with the cage in the event this ends up being a problem.

a general pic of a professional square model being sold can be seen on the link. Canopies

With regards to a proper faraday cage , no wifi or cell signal will be able to be detected inside. There are different strengths of metals sometimes needed in the science field, but most should work for home use. If you're getting signal in a faraday cage, then there's a leak or the material used is below grade.

Alright awesome thanks! Did your friend make their own, or just bought one of those? Could I realistically do a DIY one for less than $100 or is that mesh material what is really expensive?

 

[goodandevil]

I know there's fabric with fine copper weave in it, more effective than aluminum screening, but more expensive. I forvet the sight, but it's out there. The thing is you need to have a filter between the conductor and the household ground, because of induction from household wiring, radio, &c. Magnetic mats may be a more realistic option, or maybe a 9hz field generator. Definitely genocidal, no paranoia about it. I love wifi but the remedies are troublesome and expensive.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Nickel is best

 

[goodandevil]

Nickel is best a

!
Such, check this out maybe we need to open a business:Electromagnetic Field Shielding Fabrics

 

[mt_dreams]

Alright awesome thanks! Did your friend make their own, or just bought one of those? Could I realistically do a DIY one for less than $100 or is that mesh material what is really expensive?

My friend bought it on ebay 4 years ago from someone who was buying the material in bulk and making 100% mesh nets. If you're looking to make your own, take a look at goodandevil's link, as it provides a starting point to buying the raw material. I don't think you will be able to do this for under $250-300, unless you can get the fabric at a discount. You'll want to use a material that can breath. The cheapest way would be to use wire for 5 sides and a cloth like material on the zipper side.

 

[FredSonoma]

My friend bought it on ebay 4 years ago from someone who was buying the material in bulk and making 100% mesh nets. If you're looking to make your own, take a look at goodandevil's link, as it provides a starting point to buying the raw material. I don't think you will be able to do this for under $250-300, unless you can get the fabric at a discount. You'll want to use a material that can breath. The cheapest way would be to use wire for 5 sides and a cloth like material on the zipper side.

Okay thanks! What if I covered all the walls in my room with foil? Haha

 

[tara]

Okay thanks! What if I covered all the walls in my room with foil? Haha

And leave your wireless phone, mobile phone, router, and any other sources outside the room. Probably a bit expensive?

 

[FredSonoma]

And leave your wireless phone, mobile phone, router, and any other sources outside the room. Probably a bit expensive?

Would normal aluminum foil work?

 

[extremecheddar]

Won't "Mu Metal" work? Also I have heard In High EMF areas the cage should only be 3 sided otherwise you risk trapping frequencies in your cage and increasing exposure.

 

[tara]

Also I have heard In High EMF areas the cage should only be 3 sided otherwise you risk trapping frequencies in your cage and increasing exposure.

3 of 6 or 3 of 4?