Lost Hope And Dissociation

[InChristAlone]

flush your liver. You cannot fix physical obstructions with some supplements so no surprise everything stopped working.

What do you recommend to flush the liver?

 

[Blossom]

@JCastro, How long ago did you increase your calories from 1,000 to 3,000 per day?

 

[InChristAlone]

The fact that you aren't panicky all day I think is an improvement. I would take that kind of improvement. Panic is one of the worst feelings in the world. you said you've tried everything, but what about things like emfs? Have you tried outside grounding therapy? Getting away from EMFs? How about mild avoidance maybe you are a hyper sensitive.

 

[tara]

Hi JCastro,

Does anyone think I have refeeding syndrome? If I ate ~1000 kcal or less most of my life, all junk, then suddenly went to 3000-4000+ kcal, tons of sugar, nutrition, protein, coconut oil...?

If you do have refeeding syndrome, I believe it can be dangerous but treatable if you get to it quickly. I don't know much about it beyond what I read on the youreatopia.com (if you are not familiar with it, search for refeeding syndrome on this page: I Need How Many Calories?!!). It involves serious imbalances in electrolytes. Gwyneth at youreatopia suggests increasing intake gradually if intake has been chronically very low. Like adding 200cals every few days till you get up above 2000 cals. But this does not completely eliminate the risk of refeeding syndrome.
One of my people had hyponatremia a while ago. Recovered well with appropriate treatment in hospital that consisted primarily of controlled slow saline infusion and controlled fluid intake. I learned than that it can cause damage to try to restore sodium levels too quickly - slow and steady is the safer route to avoid further neurological damage. Not saying this specifically is the same for you, but there may be things about treating your situation that could have some parallels.

Please remember that I have no medical training or expertise, so my thoughts are not to be taken as medical advice.

Considering your story, I'm wondering if you have tried to find a dr in your area who has some experience specifically with helping people recover from serious undereating or anorexia? If so, they may be better able to see something about how your symptoms may tie in with the undernutrition and/or refeeding, and to be able to tell if you are in particularly urgent danger. It would make sense to me to have a dr with relevant experience supervise while embark on refeeding.
It sounds as though your drs so far have not enquired about your diet. Now that you have identified severe chronic undereating yourself, I wonder if you have told your dr? Probably important for them to have this context if they are trying to diagnose or treat you for symptoms that may be related.

If you have measurable neural demyelination, that doesn't sound great. I don't know how serious or reversible it is, but maybe it could contribute to ongoing symptoms for at least a while even after getting nutrition in order. I think Peat has said pregnenolone and progesterone are protective against brain damage.

There are lots of parameters you can experiment with, and the possible combinations are more than you will have time to try. Some of them will be helpful over time, but may not be obvious immediately. Ther eis unlikely to be a single protocol that anyone here can tell you that will be perfect for you. I'm skeptical about trying thyroid supps while starving - can deepen stress and deficiencies - but possibly it could be workable to try cautious supplementation along with getting all the micronutrients, adequate macronutrients as you can, and getting regular sunlight, attending to breathing, keeping warm, gentle movement, etc. Before trying thyroid supps in any form I'd recommend reading up about it well first, so you have an idea about safer approaches and what to look out for. I tend to advise taking it very slow and cautious. It would be good to learn about T3 and T4 and NDT etc.
When it comes to quantity, I guess it may come down to making sure the trend is to increase towards reasonable amounts over time, even if it takes you and your appetite and digestion a while to get up there.
My guess is it is important to be in contact with at least one other human being who cares a bout you every day on a regular basis - try not to shut everyone out.

I want say its almost impossible to get a definitive answer from anyone even from people as knowledgeable as peat.because no one can tell you what exactly is wrong in the body that cause the problem.especially these problem with wide range of chronic symptoms

For me what I choice to do and it worked and I get improvements was just aiming to get all vitamins and minerals day to day and constant,with no expectation to see improvement in short term.

And I look back and I see now it's 6 months or longer that I doing it and now I see improvementa.sometimes damages to structures are so bad that need time to heal.

All of b vitamins especially,replete your body stores with them.

Make sure you stay on safe dose ,but on optimal range and constant.I see you took them before but maybe you haven't been constant.

I like this advice.

No, I have only used magnesium citrate and glycinate. Is there something better about carbonate?

Peat is not particularly keen on citrate, I think. You could try Ca carbonate in the form of eggshell calcium if you are not getting much from food.

I expect that if you can get onto a restorative path, it could still take a while to recover (months or years), but I expect it will be possible to get appreciable improvements much sooner than that once you get going. There may also be set backs, but the odds are you can win out.

Good luck.

 

[tara]

Just quoting from I Need How Many Calories?!! (was youreatopia):
"If at anytime during the early phase of recovery you are dizzy, light-headed, feverish, vomit, experience severe swelling of the hands or feet, and/or experience chills and sweats, you need to seek immediate emergency care."

 

[michael94]

What do you recommend to flush the liver?

magnesium and lemon/oliveoil method. But it is a method for when nothing else works and that points to biliary obstructions in the liver. Not always necessary. Bile duct obstruction via intrahepatic stones will shut down all important processes in the liver to some degree. Bile acids and the toxins they remove are very poisonous to the liver cells if they stagnate. In fact they even mess with cortisol managing enzymes so you will experience symptoms of both too high and too low cortisol. Chart demonstrating this is here: http://puu.sh/rZGHz/298c9bffb5.png . As you can see it ranges from moderate to SEVERE disruption. Hydrophobic bile acids are also major catalysts for lipid peroxidation. And that is one of the major ways TUDCA, and taurine, protect against lipid peroxidation. They displace certain bile acids. I posted about that a few months ago: TUDCA. Taurine as haidut pointed out is just as effective as TUDCA for these purposes. With regard to metals, Bile is responsible for maintaining copper balance via two mechanisms. If it stagnates and poisons cells they will not be able to produce enough cerruloplasmin, as well as copper being directly excreted via bile - http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/medicalpubs/diseasemanagement/hepatology/wilson-disease. As we know iron homeostasis is dependent on copper function. This is not even getting into how digestion and G.I. system will be impaired by low bile. Pardon my rambling, but I hope it gave a rough idea.

 

[tara]

magnesium and lemon/oliveoil method.

I would be concerned about the possibility that this procedure could be rough on the system for someone who is very depleted and struggling.

 

[michael94]

I would be concerned about the possibility that this procedure could be rough on the system for someone who is very depleted and struggling.

Hello tara, there are less draining protocols that use lemon,olive oil, and mexican cola. Although they work more slowly. The caffeine in this case is used to open up the bile ducts. How to do a Coke Liver Flush The orthophosphoric acid is not necessary. It is already present as an additive in coca-cola. The epsom salts are optional

edit: wrong link

 

[InChristAlone]

I've done those flushes, last time only got a few little green stones so thought it wasn't very successful and I was up all night with nausea. Not fun. That was years ago. I'm not sure it's the best idea for people to try in an unhealthy state.

 

[goodandevil]

@goodandevil I live with my mother who works 7 days per week.

No, I have only used magnesium citrate and glycinate. Is there something better about carbonate?

I have not tried pure T3. I don't understand thyroid much.

@ecstatichamster I will read this.

I've responded to the carbonate in a way i haven't with other forms. how do you get along with your mom?

 

[JCastro]

@Blossom Starting November 15th.

15th: 3148 kcal
16th: 2826 kcal
17th: 4567 kcal
18th: 3787 kcal
19th: 2962 kcal
20th: 3091 kcal
21st: 2226 kcal
Today: 2452 so far, still might eat more

@Janelle525 I have thought about this, but I don't think I have the will to care. If I'm 19 and have to start avoiding EMFs then why would I want to do anything at all. I already tarnished my social life with restrictive dieting, obsessiveness, now I would have to be further handicapped avoiding Wifi signals, no thanks. I was grounding frequently during the summer, didn't notice anything, but I was right out back of my house, near EMFs.

@goodandevil Sometimes, but my being sick has aged her and made our relationship sad. She's seen me regress and she cries a lot. I flip out at her sometimes about how much I hate this.

@icecreamlover I did the epsom salt grapefruit juice liver flush a bunch when I was 15...it was exhausting and I don't know if it helped.

At this point I'm not willing to delve into self-treatment anymore. I just don't care, I've tried enough and saw nothing get better, ever. Every few months it's a few new symptoms. Old ones don't go away, it just stacks up. The newest one is noise has become physically painful to my ears. So there goes any hopes of enjoying a concert or party or anything like that. I can't use earbuds anymore or turn my speakers loud. At 19. I used to listen to podcasts or music as I fell asleep. Now it is like torture if I do that. When I was little I could sleep in a lit room with the TV blaring. Now I need pitch darkness and no noise. Let's see if things get better with eating, but I don't feel any optimism. Every instinct inside me tells me I will not get better or enjoy life ever again.

Thank you everyone and @tara

From refeeding I have some weirdness like eyelid twitching and tingling around the body, ears, feet and head but this stuff has gone on for so long I don't trust it to be significant enough for the ER docs to find it. If things get really scary like vomiting or fever maybe I'll go.

 

[InChristAlone]

It sounds like you have lost love for yourself, and in a way this post is a call to feel it in some way. I say love is the answer. We are all connected and it pains me when someone says they just dont care anymore. Yes there is suffering on this earth but you can find the good even in the bad events there will always be something good that may come of it. I have suffered a lot with panic disorder but I choose to be grateful for all that I do have. It's what gets me through. I dont have many friends but I do have my family. I have a warm house and food to eat. So much to be grateful for even if you are suffering.

 

[moss]

Age 15-19 even lower calorie low carb low sugar intermittent fasting orthorexic diet, eating one or two meals a day, overhydrating, all water or black coffee, constantly peeing, chicken, some fruit..one 6-inch hoagie over an 8 hour work day.. never really hungry, just eat because it's something you're supposed to do, some days forgot to eat at all

Late age 19 massively reduce water intake, switch to OJ, milk, fruit juice, force-feed high amounts of nutritious foods, supplement to meet all cronometer nutrients, break way over the limit for many things. Feel good for 4 days, consider returning to my life, calling friends up, gym, then crash at day 5.

Under eating and over hydrating will raise stress hormones and in particular prolactin.
I note in your thread below there is an elevated prolactin reading of 20.7. That may well be a combination of prescription meds you have taken in the past, as well as undereating. Did the "Functional" MD allude to why you have elevated prolactin, because it may be worth exploring that a little more and consider lowering it.

Anhedonia, Social Anxiety, ADHD, Chronic Fatigue, And More

Edit: @Janelle525 that is an honest, thoughtful and considered post.:)

 

[aussiedownunder]

@Blossom Starting November 15th.

15th: 3148 kcal
16th: 2826 kcal
17th: 4567 kcal
18th: 3787 kcal
19th: 2962 kcal
20th: 3091 kcal
21st: 2226 kcal
Today: 2452 so far, still might eat more

@Janelle525 I have thought about this, but I don't think I have the will to care. If I'm 19 and have to start avoiding EMFs then why would I want to do anything at all. I already tarnished my social life with restrictive dieting, obsessiveness, now I would have to be further handicapped avoiding Wifi signals, no thanks. I was grounding frequently during the summer, didn't notice anything, but I was right out back of my house, near EMFs.

@goodandevil Sometimes, but my being sick has aged her and made our relationship sad. She's seen me regress and she cries a lot. I flip out at her sometimes about how much I hate this.

@icecreamlover I did the epsom salt grapefruit juice liver flush a bunch when I was 15...it was exhausting and I don't know if it helped.

At this point I'm not willing to delve into self-treatment anymore. I just don't care, I've tried enough and saw nothing get better, ever. Every few months it's a few new symptoms. Old ones don't go away, it just stacks up. The newest one is noise has become physically painful to my ears. So there goes any hopes of enjoying a concert or party or anything like that. I can't use earbuds anymore or turn my speakers loud. At 19. I used to listen to podcasts or music as I fell asleep. Now it is like torture if I do that. When I was little I could sleep in a lit room with the TV blaring. Now I need pitch darkness and no noise. Let's see if things get better with eating, but I don't feel any optimism. Every instinct inside me tells me I will not get better or enjoy life ever again.

Thank you everyone and @tara

From refeeding I have some weirdness like eyelid twitching and tingling around the body, ears, feet and head but this stuff has gone on for so long I don't trust it to be significant enough for the ER docs to find it. If things get really scary like vomiting or fever maybe I'll go.

When all else fails ....I went to an Immunologist years ago when my children had gastrointestinal symptoms and behaviour problems eg screaming all day and night. When put on Friendly Food Diet from RPAH they settled. It's just chicken breast , white rice and low chemical fruit and vegetables ( low amines and salicylates) . The author is Ann Swaine and Prof Robert Loblay. White sugar is allowed! Fat source is the bad thing ( dairy free margarine)All my weird symptoms settled too. It is a good baseline to start from. It might help settle your symptoms for a while. I wonder now whether it was all thyroid related but it did help.Also avoiding synthetic folic acid is important for many.Not that I am an expert at all....just a desperate mum.

 

[aussiedownunder]

PS Have you been tested for parasites? ( can cause many health issues ) Have you tried digestive enzymes? Sometimes they help. Sorry , I'm not an expert at all . Also dental health and infected root canals cause major health issues.Just my experience with family and friends...... Hope you find an answer.

 

[goodandevil]

I think your environment sucks and you're blaming yourself for your mom's problems. i think ray said anticholinergics can help overcome learned helplessness. it can count for a lot. a few we3ks ago i got so sick of my girlfriends bull**** i couldnt think of words for an english paper, in a complete daze. i told her what bullsbit needs to stop and either needed her to agree or i was going to break things off. she agreed and understood, then i could think. use the tools ray has given to get control over your situation. dont engage with ur mom unless she's being nice to you otbersise ignore her completely she sounds like a selfish b****. she should be supporting you not putting u down and making you feel guilty. check out ray's work on learned helplessness. antich9linergics may help.

 

[Constatine]

@Constatine I tried to quit for several years. At one point I resorted to taking apart my computer into little pieces and putting it in storage. I meditated for very long periods. I did therapy. I did hypnosis. I read spiritual books. I exercised against it. I was working 6 days a week and school full-time and still did it. I always return to it, no matter what. So I stopped trying to quit because it's a symptom of some personality disorder, or high stress hormones, who cares? Longest I went was 28 days, 3 years ago.

Does anyone think I have refeeding syndrome? If I ate ~1000 kcal or less most of my life, all junk, then suddenly went to 3000-4000+ kcal, tons of sugar, nutrition, protein, coconut oil...? Thought I felt better for first 3-4 days...then became catatonic and stopped speaking...lost the energy to scratch an itch or reply to questions? "Impaired mental status" and confusion being symptoms of refeeding syndrome...extreme apathy...before Peating was panicking 24/7. Now lowered anxiety, just don't give a ***t, more of an empty lethargy..thiamine B1 deficiency from refeeding perhaps..hard for me not to let my vision go blurry because focusing it requires energy. Perhaps deficient in many things like phosphorous, minerals, despite eating them?..when sitting on the toilet my feet go numb for 10-15 minutes afterward

Age 0-14 western junk food diet, formula feeding, low appetite low calories, bread, starch, fast food, some sugar, barely any protein unless it was in a fast food burger or chicken nuggets

Age 15-19 even lower calorie low carb low sugar intermittent fasting orthorexic diet, eating one or two meals a day, overhydrating, all water or black coffee, constantly peeing, chicken, some fruit..one 6-inch hoagie over an 8 hour work day.. never really hungry, just eat because it's something you're supposed to do, some days forgot to eat at all

Late age 19 massively reduce water intake, switch to OJ, milk, fruit juice, force-feed high amounts of nutritious foods, supplement to meet all cronometer nutrients, break way over the limit for many things. Feel good for 4 days, consider returning to my life, calling friends up, gym, then crash at day 5. Change happened in 5 minutes, got in the shower hopeful, got out of the shower, dressed, groomed, "browned out" and stared in space with no content of thought lost all enthusiasm, a 180 degree turn almost instantly. Paranoia and pseudo-hallucinations started that night, never had them before, if I look at an object long enough it morphs into a person or image from my memory. Closing my eyes, I rapidly see images from my memories.

Hmm... maybe it's nothing about food and I have an organic dissociation with mania. But I never had this before, on this level. I'm gonna try and pile in more food every day, see what happens, but it's hard with no appetite and inertia. Food is foreign to me, I have no want for it. Just took a 200 mg of B1 thiamine..heat flushing and some anxiety, chest pains (hospital says heart is fine) @tara

I truly think that masturbation to porn is your problem, especially if you couldn't quit. This shows that your dopamine system is reliant on it. If you can't stop no matter what you do you can always take memantine to reset your dopamine system. Though this approach extreme for normal circumstances but if this is ruining your life then I say go for it. I recommend researching memantine but it will certainly eliminate any bad habits you have including PMO. Apathy is the number one symptom of Porn and masturbation.

 

[blackkzeus]

Basically experiencing all your symptoms besides the tinnitus, ibs, starting to seeings, and a few more. I get your frustration. It ******* sucks waking up and having absolutely no interest in anything, being anhedonic, not being able to think straight, and feeling tired and lifeless like a zombie. I sent you a message but the only thing keeping me from not killing myself is modafinil. I'll take it every like 3 days and it makes life bearable. Completely diminishes my depression and the symptoms associated with it. Like you I've tried everything there is to try and really nothing works

What stood out to me was when you said you tried to eat an apple and you got itchy all over. I experience the same thing when i eat apples. has this alwasy been the case for you when you eat apples. for me I was able to eat apples and other fruits with no problem up until like 3 yeas ago when my anhedonia depression unbearing. Before that I struggled with social anxiety, irrational fear to a lot of things, chronic stress. My guess is that the chronic stress messed up my gut and immune system and now I have food sensitivities to a lot of foods.

 

[mayweatherking]

dude first of all, chill the **** out. listen to me, i am your voice of reason, realize right now you are in a pro estrogen state, and that said estrogen is causing you to feel the way you feel. you yourself are not crazy. you yourself have nothing wrong with you. there is nothing wrong with you. it's just your hormones are messed up, you sound A LOT like me. really a lot like me almost it is shocking a little bit lol. you probably have read my posts, i am starting to do a little bit better now.

first of all, the brillo pad thing.. i get that too dude! i realized it is from when i do not eat any beef or some kind of muscle meat in the day. i think it is from either a lack of b vitamins possibly. try to get some ground beef in and then eat some bone broth with it (make it with oxtail and lamb shank), i do mine in a slow cooker for about 8 hrs.

next, are you constipated at all? i think you might be constipated. you need to do nofap, starting right now. i bet you are upping cortisol with it. go to whole foods and get bamboo shoots, they are like 3.50 a can, start eating like half a can, 3x or 4x a day. if you are constipated, you need the fiber to get things moving in the meantime before your body starts taking over. also, cascara will help move things until the body is back again.

okay, your prolactin is high. HELLO? you have the problem right there in your face. what is your salt intake? up your salt intake a lot. make sure you get enough calcium and magnesium.... again, up. your. salt. intake. UP IT. up that ish up. i guarnatee you are low on salt. the ray peat liquid diet is not nice to someone who is all ready hypo and that needs a lot of salt. that will push down the pressure in your head too.

start eating a meal every 2hrs. small meals.

 

[mayweatherking]

trust me man, you will be all right. hey, what was your vitamin D level? did you get that one tested? it's important because vitamin D will help you absorb calcium and will lower your prolactin, you probably are low in it too i'd imagine, that might be the issue bro! also, are you juicing your own oranges? when you buy OJ at the store, they water it down, that extra water does you no good in a hypo state. can you move to a more solid food diet for a little bit? i think it will bring your temperature up. there is this book by matt stone called "eat for heat" or something like that, but he basically made the connection of eating solid food versus liquid and how solid food will boost your temp versus liquid. i think you can compensate with the salt to handle said liquid, but it could be part of the problem. anyway man.. ive had PFS since i was 19 dude, i wish i found ray peat then, i only found it last year. i am very, very similar to you my friend.. very similar. i have been chronically skinny my entire life.