2 Years Ago Life REALLY Crashed Anyone Have Information?

Discussion in 'Mental Issues' started by troubledtimes, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    i was managing alot better in my 20s i went on an SSRI because i started getting intrusive thoughts that scared me half to death and my anxiety just got out of control. i will admit that ssri DID get me out of such a scary moment in my life i started feeling alot better after a few weeks on it. over the years it sorta lost its effect but i was somewhat managing life. in the past 2 years my anxiety and depression have become terrible. i tried to up the dose of my SSRI, ive tried an SNRI and mirtzapine, lexapro and quite a few others and i for the life of me cant feel better. i see other people hanging out with there friends at the basketball court, i see them sitting down in restaurants and i have NO idea how people can do that. because i would freeze and lock right up around a planned event. i get weird and uncomfortable around people so yes i have social anxiety. but at the same time im also angry and irritable. im arguing with people in public and im just not calm. im not bi polar because i have NEVER EVER had a time where i felt really good and manic and had alot of energy to get work done. im always low on energy and worn out from the anxiety, stuck with sad fearful thoughts that cycle through my head like i miss my dad who passed away, worry about my moms health. i tried to go for a bike ride earlier and my vision seems really dim and things are floating by kind of slowly and i feel like im in a dream like state and derealized. im not seeing things that are not there so i dont think i have any schitzoprenia issues but i get freeked out by this unreal feeling i get its hard to explain but you just dont feel like life is real and its hard to beleive your on this planet and it feels like im in a dream like state... but with all the fear and irritibility... theres just something off. maybe the SSRI i took has just worn off? i was on it for 10 years... but than again i tried other ssris and different doses and nothing. i tried seraquel low dose before and that made me feel so detached the next day and same with mirtzapine that gave me derealization to. im sorry for the long post. but something is overactive or out of wack in my brain and if you have ideas or suggestions please it can only help
     
  2. Kammas

    Kammas Member

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    What do you eat, how much do you eat, what’s your temperature and pulse rate if you’ve taken in, and have you had blood work done that you can share?
     
  3. mrchibbs

    mrchibbs Member

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    You need to take a breather. It seems pretty clear that you are in a serotonin dominant state. 10 years on an SSRI means your blain is flooded with serotonin.

    Cyproheptadine, and use of laxatives like cascara sagrada, can help pull you out of that hole.
     
  4. gately

    gately Member

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    What are you eating / drinking on a daily basis, exactly? Do you take any supplements at all, any herbs or teas of any kind? Any medications of any kind now? Do you get sunlight? Any health issues besides the mental stuff? Any out of the norm phobias / obsessions?

    I went through a period of de-realization a few years ago, and came out the other side. I know how scary it is. Let's see if we can help.
     
  5. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    i eat pretty much the typical western diet. heated up pizzas in the oven, pop, outfood, eggs, basically carbs and a crappy diet. i dont eat a super large amount of food because i am 5'10 210 pounds so not a huge guy. i do notice my hands and feet are always cold. i was thinking a misdiagnosed thyroid issue? but i did have blood work done and everything came back normal. they say thyroid is good, im not diabetic, vitamins are good and hemoglobin and what not. however i did not have vitamin D tested and maybe something is misdiagnosed... i heard of a woman who was having similar issues and her blood sugar levels were fine but they noticed her insulin levels were 15 times higher than the average person after she ate. i really dont know whats going on if its phsical or mental
     
  6. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    thats a SUPER interesting idea you just said. so your thinking something along the line of seratonin syndrome? hmm im open to any ideas. but seeing how im depressed and anxious and irritable wouldnt that indicate lower seratonin if anything? isnt high seratonin accociated with feeling nice and calm and well?
     
  7. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    on a daily basis alot of carbs ill admit a crappy diet i eat outfood, i try eating more vegtables i dont really notice them making me feel better. because of these issues ive cut back on alot of food. but i still have this jittery feeling and when i do say even pizza ill hyperventilate and get shortness of breath and even head twitches and my eyebrows kinda spasm and ferrow upward its weird. in my 20s i could eat anything i could even drink beer and wake with just a hangover. now if i drink beer god thats even worse than me drinking soda or pop. if i drink beer the next day i get so jittery and head and arms spasms and its like im having mini seizures almost.... and i dont drink often maybe once every week or once every 2 weeks and each time i drink same result im a mess the next day and i regret it. i stop drinking for 4 months this year just to see if maybe all these weird symptoms is form beer but no cutting out alochol wasnt the answer... tried to drink pop and same thing all jittery like its ER time. something seems to have gone wrong in these past 2 years im clueless. i get and walk and try to get vitamin d but i have never got my levels tested. theres no health issues that i know off. another thing is i get winded just walking up one flight of stairs and walking im always out of breath. this is pretty weird because im not a large guy im 5'10 about 210 pounds so pretty average. i dont have any eating phobias or odd obsessions that i can think of.... i am plagued with depressing scary thoughts most the day and anxiety for no reason. ill be at home and no danger around and always feel anxious and like im losing it. i think back to when i was a teenager and i had anxiety than but i remember i could think alot clearer and watch movies and enjoy life for the most part. now i cant even watch a tv show. im cant sit still otherwise it seems my anxiety gets even worse. it feels like im being driven by a motor.
     
  8. not_James_Bond

    not_James_Bond Member

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    You need to make little steps, have you tried St. John's Wort?, you really do need to get off SSRI's, they are a complete crutch and you are half the time living in reality, the other half in fantasy. That is why it would be good to 'very' slowly reduce the SSRI use and compensate for it with SJW, my 2c.
    I have history of Prozac use and I really hated that feeling about not giving a s**t about anything at all :eek:

    The fact that you are reaching out is a very good sign. Why not make time for some home cooking a few times a week to reduce the fast food your are consuming, I get the reasons you are consuming it but if this is going to work you need to start treating your body as a temple.

    I was so ill that I was vomiting thinking about going into work, I ended up getting a Psychiatrist provided through the NHS as I got to the point of being suicidal, thanks to a family member who insisted I did this, thinking about that do you have a close friend or family member you can totally trust to have your back?, if you do you are halfway there IMO.
    It will feel like you have been re-born if this works out for you.

    I wish you all the best with this :angelic:
     
  9. gately

    gately Member

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    This is my advice to you, which is probably going to be counter to a lot of the advice you'll receive here. Do with it what you will, or take it with a grain of salt. We're all strangers on the internet, after all. I hope that if my advice doesn't help or resonate with you, that someone else's does, and that my advice somehow helps someone else down the line.

    - First of all, you seriously need to clean up your diet. There's a ton of things that will be suggested on this forum, from vitamins and supplements to hormones to desiccated thyroid to pharmaceuticals, but if you are living off take-out and frozen pizzas, that alone would make a mentally healthy person feel like utter garbage after enough time. Now if your gut is okay, then starch is okay. Eat a balanced diet made up of mostly whole foods. Eat enough protein from animal flesh (especially ruminant meat like beef or lamb--I think you'll need to eat red meat daily for zinc at this point, as the level of anxiety you have has probably left you very depleted.) Any vegetable you eat should be very well cooked, and I mean boiled. Avoid anything bitter in flavor, like broccoli or kale, unless your body craves it or it makes you feel better in some way. (On that note: Pay attention to your body's cravings, and don't consume things your body doesn't want. For instance, don't force yourself to eat a kale salad if your body says, "Gross!" Don't eat spicy foods if your body says, "That's too hot!" Those are warning signs.) Green veggies are not the priority right now. Boiled green beans are pretty safe and nutritious, as are some other bland, easily digestible kinds. Experiment with what appeals to you in the produce section. Let your body tell you what veggies, if any, you should eat right now. Mostly, you'll want to focus on naturally sweet, salty, and (potentially) sour flavors. This is your foundation. From there you can experiment with whatever you like.

    Everything in your diet should be a whole food, with the exception of starch which should be refined in some way: (i.e. - white flour, additive-free French bread over whole grain toast, peeled russet potatoes over red potatoes with skins, imported Italian pasta over fortified American pasta.) Eat a breakfast with protein like eggs and even additive free, high quality bacon if you enjoy that.

    An example of clean, nutritious menu I would start out with:

    A breakfast of scrambled eggs, bacon, toast, and butter, and sea salt. (Later, you might include a small glass of OJ if you do alright with small amounts of fruit juice.)
    A lunch of baked cheesy potato, chicken thighs, and whatever boiled vegetable you enjoy, with plenty of salted butter.
    A dinner of baked plain potato, a ribeye steak, and some boiled green beans, with plenty of salted butter.

    A good quality cookie from a bakery for dessert.

    Squeeze a bit of lime in your water once a day if you enjoy the taste. Have some high quality tortilla chips if you enjoy them.

    Use Garlic and Onion in your cooking if you enjoy them, but not too much. And be mindful of your reaction to sulfurous foods in general: especially eggs, garlic, onions, cabbage, etc. You may need to remove them for a time, or they may suit you just fine.

    Have some seafood occasionally as well, whatever is fresh and low in mercury that you enjoy. But don't go all hog with things like oysters and shellfish right now, unless you crave them or feel better with them.

    Drink ONLY spring water if you can afford it. Fiji is the most accessible that's high in silica and I personally think most people would benefit from basically drinking exclusively that, as high silica water can slowly (and safely) remove aluminum from the brain. If you can't afford to just drink spring water, drink filtered tap water. Avoid any bottled water that is distilled or processed using reverse osmosis. You don't want your water devoid of minerals right now.

    If you feel OK drinking high quality organic and additive-free milk, have some. If not, you can have some mild, fresh cheese...but nothing super high in histamine for now, so nothing very aged: you don't know if you mentally react well to histamines...so don't eat anything fermented until you establish a baseline with your diet, after that, you can try to test some fermented foods like yogurt (no bifudus strains) or sauerkraut...but be extremely cautious with this experiment.

    If this diet is reminding you of the banality of the American Midwest in the 1950's: good, that's the point. That's the archetype you're trying to achieve. You want hearty, nutritious, warm, simple, grounding foods.

    Probably best to start without dairy for now then add it in a little later, but if you're craving it and it makes you feel calmer: go for it, for now. You could also similarly test cutting out gluten, when you feel up to it. (Skinny, high strung people typically feel better with lots of wheat and dairy, Overweight, lethargic types usually feel better without it.) Similarly, peeled, baked white potatoes are good food for some, but a small portion of people might react to nightshades, and this is also something you'll eventually want to test for yourself as well. Testing yourself for gluten or dairy or nightshade sensitivity is an important step for ANYONE who is sick. But it's probably not the first priority. The first priority is stop eating garbage.

    - Supplementation: The only thing I would suggest for now is Magnesium Oil, and to see how you react. I would apply liberal amounts of Ancient Organics Magnesium Oil to your entire legs twice a day. This measure alone can get someone out of the derealized state, and within a few days.

    - Another magnesium supplement that you could try that is especially calming for some people is Magnesium Glycinate. It's the glycine which it's bound to that can be potently calming for some, and can get shift the nervous system very quickly. (This and the Mag Oil helped me a lot when I was where you are at.)

    - Another magnesium option are baths. If you feel good after an epsom salt bath, use them. If you feel bad after them, I'd focus on the other two options for now. Try a twice weekly nice, warm bath of 1 pound epsom salt, 2 pounds sea salt, 1 pound baking soda. This is detoxifying, and very soothing for some. Others can't handle the effects of the sulfate.

    - Beyond that, I would get a hair mineral analysis from Trace Elements (not ARL), read what they suggest you take for your particular needs, and see if anything strikes you. There's lots of hair analysis practitioners out there, some meh, some OK.

    - On that note, the second most important thing besides getting your diet cleaned up is that I think you should find a good alternative health practitioner, since it doesn't sound like you are having much success with Western Medicine. Personally, I think Garrett Smith from Nutrition Restored is a really smart guy and might be able to help you get back your life. He's currently on a Vitamin A detox diet crusade, which is well covered in the Anti-Peat subforum, and to be frank I haven't fully made up my mind about it all, but if I were you, I would consult with him nonetheless, because he seems to know his hair analysis very well and so just be up-front with him about not being sure on the Vitamin A stuff, but needing his help with his hair analysis expertise to aid your mental health. He comes to mind for your case because his approach is pretty safe and very minimal, compared to most hair analysis practitioners I've seen. And I've worked with a lot.

    - If Garrett's approach or hair analysis in general doesn't float your boat, I still think consulting with SOME kind of qualified alternative practitioner who's had success with mental issues would be FAR wiser than getting random advice on the internet. (And to be frank, especially here... where it's a bit like some kind of alternative health Wild West: lots of emerging and exciting ideas, lots of contrarians, potentially a panacea for someone with metabolic issues, but just as dangerous for others if you happen to take a wrong turn.) Other practitioners that come to mind would be consulting with one of the Amen brain clinics that are nationwide (I believe) or looking for whatever highly reviewed Naturopath is in your area. This is really important, and besides diet the most important point I hope to get across to you: you don't want to fight this thing on your own, and since western medicine is failing you, find someone in another modality who is qualified to be your ally.

    - As a LAST resort, I would look into finding the best possible Chinese Medicine practitioner in your area and seeing them as often as you can for treatments, and getting pulse-prescribed herbs. This can be extremely helpful for some, and extremely harmful others...it greatly depends on the quality of the practitioner, and unfortunately they are few and far between, including in China. This is seriously a last resort, as they have notoriously bad successes with people who would mentally react poorly to strong bitter flavors.

    Other random notes:

    - Avoid anything with additives or synthetic vitamins until you know what you tolerate and don't tolerate. This includes fortified flours, breads, cereals, etc. Read the labels on everything you consume and be militant about that. (If you're histadelic, for instance, that extra folic acid alone could be causing your mental issues.) This can be something you test for yourself if you go without fortified food for a while and then re-introduce it to see how you react, if at all. Either way, it's a good lifelong health practice as the iron in fortified foods is harmful.

    - Stop drinking caffeine until your mental health is on more solid ground, unless you feel better with it...which it sounds like you don't.

    - Use sugar within reason, for now. You don't need to cut it out just yet, just don't binge on sugar...you need to get your mineral balance in order, and get your vitamin status up. Sugar is tricky. If you have your health in a certain sweet spot, sugar is like gold, but too imbalanced in one direction, and it's just feeding the fire that will consume you.

    - Minimize fruit in general (for now). Similar to keeping sugar within reason, get your ducks in a row before you start pounding OJ like some might suggest here.

    - If I wasn't already clear, completely stop drinking soda pop and other garbage.

    - I forgot to ask about your sexual habits, but they can contribute to mental issues if they are very imbalanced. Never resist strong urges, but also don't have an orgasm more than once a day, it's too depleting.

    - Go outside, get fresh air as much as you can, open your windows if the climate allows but avoid chilly drafts.

    - Get sun on your skin daily.

    - Go for a walk every day, whatever you can handle. (Not too much though, unless it starts to feel good.) If you can't handle it, invest in a rebounder. You'll be able to handle that.

    - Clean up your living space. This is too big a topic for here but, in a nutshell: keep your living space clean (no dust, no mold, no off-gassing furniture, no strong smells, do your best to avoid toxins in soaps, shampoos, or anything else going on your body, don't use aluminum in your cooking, etc) and make sure you aren't reacting to something in your living space. If you aren't sure, try and go on a small vacation to a very clean Air BnB or something, and see if your symptoms improve on any level. Then you'll have a piece of the puzzle.

    - Find some relaxing music you enjoy, shut your eyes, and let your body relax. Do this at least once a day, ideally twice a day, every single day. If music doesn't help, find some relaxing thing that does. This is really important. You need to try and induce a relaxation response. It is hard at first, a very stressed out body doesn't want to relax because it essentially thinks it is being hunted and thus needs to run and procreate before it dies. But if you persist every day, your body will remember how to relax, if even for small time periods, and the health gains you can achieve from this alone can be profound. Please do not underestimate the power of the relaxation response over a consistent period of time.

    - This is hard advice, because it's going to sound a little scary to you I'm sure, but: You might want to consider after this thread has given you all their advice, that you should stop researching so much, for now. Just clean up your diet, clean up your lifestyle and environment, and put the rest of your recovery into the hands a practitioner you trust so you can let your mind start to trust in that process...if only for a couple of months while you give the modality and lifestyle changes an honest shot. You might need to be kind to your mind in that way, because it sounds like it could use the break. Or don't, and keep searching, the cure might be a pill right around the next corner. It happens. But when you are this stressed, the endless search for a solution can really knock you back.

    - Lastly, and on the note of mindset, you need to find a positive mental attitude to see you through this. This is PART of the benefit of having a practitioner help solve your problems by coming to some form of diagnosis and putting you on some kind health plan to address it. It allows you to relinquish the burden of illness, and have faith that you are getting better. People talk about placebo like it's this minor thing, but it is in fact, perhaps, the most powerful tool at our disposal. If a practitioner isn't instilling faith that you're going to get better, despite whatever "detox" or "setbacks" you experience on that healing path, then find a modality, even if it's a mental or pseudo-spiritual construct that DOES. You can read Emile Coue's short book online, "Self-mastery Through Auto-Suggestion" for the simplest method I know of, should nothing else work.

    If you're broke and can't implement all the above changes due to financial constraints, then I would prioritize consulting with the most qualified alternative practitioner you can find and afford, and eating the most wholesome diet you can afford.

    I wish you luck.
     
  10. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    thank you i will keep all this in mind and and experiment with it. i have heard of the amen clinics and how they use spect scans and run alot of important tests like vitamin d and lyme disease. very familiar with dr amens work and i really think that would be the best option for anyone to go to. but i live in alberta canada. and i cant addord the 5000 dollars it costs. i know they work with a company that has payments you can make for people who cant afford it but they dont accept canadian citizens. and my credit score is terrible to get a 5000 dollar loan. i wish i could find some company in canada that would cover the amen clinics i would travel there. the closest location of there clinics to me is in the washington area. past 4 months ive really cut out alot of junk in my life. i still slip up but ive made a huge improvement. i eat kale and blueberry shakes but i find they dont really make me feel great. not bad but maybe cooked vegtables would be better. ive bought and tried literally over 20 suppliments with no luck calming down my anxiety and making me feel good. i hate to sound like that but i wish i could say otherwise. ive tried: GABA, Taurine, L theanine, 5htp, passion flower,magnesium glycinate, ashwaghanda, kava kava, valerian root, NAC, d3 suppliments 5000 a day, centrum mens multivitamin, ive tried high and low doses of these. its been so frustering. i cant beleive out of all of these i havent had and success... ive been flat out disappointed and frusterated. i do have luck with taking klonopin. it helps somewhat im only on a low dose around 1mg a day. but i do notice it helps but i dont want to rely on a benzo. something got to give tho
     
  11. gately

    gately Member

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    My friend, I can think of nothing worse than some of those supplements you have tried or a "kale and blueberry shake" if you have a serious anxiety disorder. That kind of raw bitter green shake and especially the centrum multivitamin, would absolutely wreck me, physically and mentally for a variety of reasons. You don't sound anywhere near as sick as I was when I was at my worst, and your tolerance for synthetic garbage is like x1000 greater than my own. So I'm confident you can overcome this. Please re-read everything I've written you again, consider it all, and then act. I'm confident you'll find the help you need, if not through my above advice, then with someone else's.

    I sincerely hope you reach out to a qualified alternative health practitioner, you sound like you need a lot direct hands-on guidance. And that's okay. I did at one time, too. You don't need to go to an Amen clinic if you cannot afford it. I'm sure there are affordable and quality naturopaths who have plenty of clinical experience dealing with anxiety disorders, who will either Skype consult with you or are in your local area, as I mentioned above. If you don't want to try out my recommendations, and you have no one to turn to for a referral, literally just try whoever is best reviewed in the nearest major city on Yelp and start there. Better than trying to figure this out for yourself when you're so new to alternative health. There are many bad paths. Good luck.
     
  12. mrchibbs

    mrchibbs Member

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    I think you'll find the conventional perspective on serotonin is totally flawed and even fraudulent.

    I recommend reading Ray Peat's articles and searching for the more recent research on serotonin and SSRIs.

    Bottomline, cyproheptadine is a cheap solution and laxatives like cascara will reduce the endotoxin load in your intestine and reduce the serotonin production, which will truly improve your mood.
     
  13. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    why did the ssri's make me feel alot better for 5 years tho? is it just possable over time to much seratonin from my ssri has had the opposite effect now? i tried to find the articles you mentioned i cant seem to find them thou do you have a link?
     
  14. Kammas

    Kammas Member

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    Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.


     
  15. Mito

    Mito Member

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    5mg Escitalopram/lexapro Effectively Cured My Anxiety

    Abstract
    The pharmacological action of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressants may include a normalization of
    the decreased brain levels of the brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and of neurosteroids such as the progesterone metabolite allopregnanolone, which are decreased in patients with depression and posttraumatic stress disorders (PTSD). The allopregnanolone and BDNF level decrease in PTSD and depressed patients is associated with behavioral symptom severity. Antidepressant treatment upregulates both allopregnanolone levels and the expression of BDNF in a manner that significantly correlates with improved symptomatology, which suggests that neurosteroid biosynthesis and BDNF expression may be interrelated. Preclinical studies using the socially isolated mouse as an animal model of behavioral deficits, which resemble some of the symptoms observed in PTSD patients, have shown that fluoxetine and derivatives improve anxiety-like behavior, fear responses and aggressive behavior by elevating the corticolimbic levels of allopregnanolone and BDNF mRNA expression. These actions appeared to be independent and more selective than the action of these drugs on serotonin reuptake inhibition. Hence, this review addresses the hypothesis that in PTSD or depressed patients, brain allopregnanolone levels, and BDNF expression upregulation may be mechanisms at least partially involved in the beneficial actions of antidepressants or other selective brain steroidogenic stimulant molecules.
    Neurosteroids Reduce Social Isolation-Induced Behavioral Deficits: A Proposed Link with Neurosteroid-Mediated Upregulation of BDNF Expression
     
  16. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    thanks those are interesting articles. ive read in the past about SSRI's and antidepressants having different effects. they do enhance seratonin activity BUT if it was just seratonin thats the problem than it should not take 6 weeks for these drugs to work. they also increase bdnf and neuroplasticity. thats a great article. so its quite possable that maybe i have to much seratonin activity it would explain alot of my symptoms. if i eat things that turn into sugar fast i get jittery and basically seems like seratonin syndrome because sugar and carbs turn into seratonin and flood the brain with it. over time taking high dose SSRI for 10 years can probably cause issues. im open to change. im thinking about taking a break from the SSRI and lowing the dose and see what happens. or maybe i should try some seratonin blocking drugs as mentioned above ^^ and progesterone was it? the biology of my brain is out of wack i cant control it with self talk. i really think i need to try some "bio hacking" and possably start with lowering the dose of my ssri and see how i react. also maybe enhancing dopamine would be a good idea for me because it would balance out seratonin.
     
  17. fitnessgirl

    fitnessgirl Member

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    No advice but i am in a very similar situation. Send me a message if you want to talk
     
  18. OP
    troubledtimes

    troubledtimes Member

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    i tried to give a break from my SSRI for a few days now and if anything i feel worse. still unsure if this could be seratonin syndrome.
     
  19. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    It could be in the gut, did you have antibiotics at some point and then things got worse? It could be candida or some other bug. There is the gut-brain connection, the wrong bacteria in your digestive track can release toxins that are absorbed into the blood and affect the brain. There is a turpentine cure for parasites and candida. Or try ‘MMS’, chlorine dioxide. I have had astounding results with arthritis in my mom’s caretaker back in 2012 with MMS. We are taking it daily now as a Covid preventative, 3 activated drops one or two times a day, what I noticed is that my stool didn’t smell bad anymore since I started this. Otherwise, I have a good digestion.

    There are tons of testimonials on www.mmstestimonials.co, not ‘.com’. Take a look. Hope you soon find your way out of this, never give up!
     
  20. Lilac

    Lilac Member

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    @gately mentioned aluminum a couple of times. I have read--and seen for myself on the ingredient lists--that frozen pizza often contains aluminum, as an additive to the cheese. I hope that helps you avoid this convenience food. Good luck.
     
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