Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[Mossy]

MK4 has a short half life. MK7 form has a longer hl.

Thank you.

 

[Amazoniac]

??n, check this out:

- Vitamin K Vitamers Differently Affect Energy Metabolism in IPEC-J2 Cells

The fat-soluble vitamin K (VK) has long been known as a requirement for blood coagulation, but like other vitamins, has been recently recognized to play further physiological roles, particularly in cell development and homeostasis. Vertebrates cannot de novo synthesize VK, which is essential, and it can only be obtained from the diet or by the activity of the gut microbiota. The IPEC-J2 cell line, obtained from porcine small intestine, which shows strong similarities to the human one, represents an excellent functional model to in vitro study the effect of compounds at the intestinal level. The acute VK treatments on the bioenergetic features of IPEC-J2 cells were evaluated by Seahorse XP Agilent technology. VK exists in different structurally related forms (vitamers), all featured by a naphtoquinone moiety, but with distinct effects on IPEC-J2 energy metabolism. The VK1, which has a long hydrocarbon chain, at both concentrations (5 and 10 μM), increases the cellular ATP production due to oxidative phosphorylation (OXPHOS) by 5% and by 30% through glycolysis. The VK2 at 5 μM only stimulates ATP production by OXPHOS. Conversely, 10 μM VK3, which lacks the long side chain, inhibits OXPHOS by 30% and glycolysis by 45%. However, even if IPEC-J2 cells mainly prefer OXPHOS to glycolysis to produce ATP, the OXPHOS/glycolysis ratio significantly decreases in VK1-treated cells, is unaffected by VK2, and only significantly increased by 10 μM VK3. VK1, at the two concentrations tested, does not affect the mitochondrial bioenergetic parameters, while 5 μM VK2 increases and 5 μM VK3 reduces the mitochondrial respiration (i.e., maximal respiration and spare respiratory capacity). Moreover, 10 μM VK3 impairs OXPHOS, as shown by the increase in the proton leak, namely the proton backward entry to the matrix space, thus pointing out mitochondrial toxicity. Furthermore, in the presence of both VK1 and VK2 concentrations, the glycolytic parameters, namely the glycolytic capacity and the glycolytic reserve, are unaltered. In contrast, the inhibition of glycoATP production by VK3 is linked to the 80% inhibition of glycolysis, resulting in a reduced glycolytic capacity and reserve. These data, which demonstrate the VK ability to differently modulate IPEC-J2 cell energy metabolism according to the different structural features of the vitamers, can mirror VK modulatory effects on the cell membrane features and, as a cascade, on the epithelial cell properties and gut functions: balance of salt and water, macromolecule cleavage, detoxification of harmful compounds, and nitrogen recycling.

 

[Filosofy]

Have had a curious experience with Kuinone so far. It seems to generate energy, good breathing and, surprisingly, shinier and stronger teeth in just a matter of days. This from one drop in the navel. However, a week into use my face skin is flaking which I have never had before, so I am discontinuing use for a while. Otherwise my temperatures and mood and digestion are fine.

Been thinking that perhaps K2, being a fat soluble vitamin, can be successfully supplemented intermittently, such as once a week, as I've read many recommend that one supplements vitamin D. Will probably reintroduce this way.

 

[sun-maid]

When is the olive oil version coming out ? I might get some soon. @haidut

Edit : Nevermind, he said next week on podcast.

 

[haidut]

When is the olive oil version coming out ? I might get some soon. @haidut

Edit : Nevermind, he said next week on podcast.

Yep, we should have it by this coming Tue/Wed. We have the raw ingredients and it is just a matter of bottling a batch with EVOOO (extra virgin organic olive oil).

 

[GeoX]

I'll order a bottle of EVOOO ASAP. I was going to place an order today but will wait.

 

[DKBS]

Yep, we should have it by this coming Tue/Wed. We have the raw ingredients and it is just a matter of bottling a batch with EVOOO (extra virgin organic olive oil).

Where can I find info you mentioned in last nights podcast about Xarelto depleting Vit K?

 

[Riesensackteil]

Yep, we should have it by this coming Tue/Wed. We have the raw ingredients and it is just a matter of bottling a batch with EVOOO (extra virgin organic olive oil).

What makes it superior to the current version? Or is it just more convenient to use?

 

[haidut]

Where can I find info you mentioned in last nights podcast about Xarelto depleting Vit K?

Slight correction on my end. Mainstream medicine claims that only warfarin directly depletes vitamin K, but newer drugs like Xarelto do not. In fact, drugs like warfarin are called "vitamin K antagonists". Though mainstream medicine claims Xarelto works through a different mechanism and does not directly deplete vitamin K, there is at least one study (below) that shows adding vitamin K to Xarelto reduces bleeding risk, which to me is evidence that Xarelto does act in a way opposite to vitamin K even if it does not directly deplete it. Note how deviously the article is worded. The abstract just says bleeding was lower in the Xarelto groups compared to warfarin. However those Xarelto groups were split into 2 groups - one without and one with vitamin K. The one with vitamin K had the lowest rate of major or life threatening bleeding events (see attached screenshot of Table 7 below). So, to most people reading the article the take away message is that Xarelto is safer and that's about it, while the real message is that Xarelto may be less dangerous than warfarin (but only when it comes to bleeding risks) but the risk is still much higher than the general population and that risk is further lowered by adding vitamin K, so the effects of Xarelto on vitamin K are still unknown and possibly negative (though weaker than warfarin).

Multicenter Randomized Controlled Trial of Vitamin K Antagonist Replacement by Rivaroxaban with or without Vitamin K2 in Hemodialysis Patients with Atrial Fibrillation: the Valkyrie Study

Functional vitamin K deficiency, exacerbated by the use of vitamin K antagonists (VKAs), is thought to contribute to the rapid progression of vascular calcifications in patients on dialysis. We randomized patients receiving chronic hemodialysis with atrial fibrillation to VKAs, rivaroxaban, or...

jasn.asnjournals.org

"...Results Baseline dp-ucMGP was severely elevated in all groups. Initiation or continuation of VKAs further increased dp-ucMGP, whereas levels decreased in the rivaroxaban group and to a larger extent in the rivaroxaban+vitamin K2 group, but remained nevertheless elevated. Changes in coronary artery, thoracic aorta, and cardiac valve calcium scores and pulse wave velocity were not significantly different among the treatment arms. All cause death, stroke, and cardiovascular event rates were similar between the groups. Bleeding outcomes were not significantly different, except for a lower number of life-threatening and major bleeding episodes in the rivaroxaban arms versus the VKA arm."

And finally, here is the Slate article exposing the entire Xarelto trial as a scam, with the full knowledge and approval of the FDA.

Flagship Blood Thinner Worse Than Aspirin For Preventing Strokes, Trial Halted

Many of you may have seen the ads on TV for the blood thinner Xarelto. Sadly, those ads have lately started to show increasingly younger people with apparent blood clotting issues, some of them clearly in their 20s. Xarelto is the latest attempt of the pharma industry to replace the old and...

raypeatforum.com

 

[DKBS]

Slight correction on my end. Mainstream medicine claims that only warfarin directly depletes vitamin K, but newer drugs like Xarelto do not. In fact, drugs like warfarin are called "vitamin K antagonists". Though mainstream medicine claims Xarelto works through a different mechanism and does not directly deplete vitamin K, there is at least one study (below) that shows adding vitamin K to Xarelto reduces bleeding risk, which to me is evidence that Xarelto does act in a way opposite to vitamin K even if it does not directly deplete it. Note how deviously the article is worded. The abstract just says bleeding was lower in the Xarelto groups compared to warfarin. However those Xarelto groups were split into 2 groups - one without and one with vitamin K. The one with vitamin K had the lowest rate of major or life threatening bleeding events (see attached screenshot of Table 7 below). So, to most people reading the article the take away message is that Xarelto is safer and that's about it, while the real message is that Xarelto may be less dangerous than warfarin (but only when it comes to bleeding risks) but the risk is still much higher than the general population and that risk is further lowered by adding vitamin K, so the effects of Xarelto on vitamin K are still unknown and possibly negative (though weaker than warfarin).

Multicenter Randomized Controlled Trial of Vitamin K Antagonist Replacement by Rivaroxaban with or without Vitamin K2 in Hemodialysis Patients with Atrial Fibrillation: the Valkyrie Study

Functional vitamin K deficiency, exacerbated by the use of vitamin K antagonists (VKAs), is thought to contribute to the rapid progression of vascular calcifications in patients on dialysis. We randomized patients receiving chronic hemodialysis with atrial fibrillation to VKAs, rivaroxaban, or...

jasn.asnjournals.org

"...Results Baseline dp-ucMGP was severely elevated in all groups. Initiation or continuation of VKAs further increased dp-ucMGP, whereas levels decreased in the rivaroxaban group and to a larger extent in the rivaroxaban+vitamin K2 group, but remained nevertheless elevated. Changes in coronary artery, thoracic aorta, and cardiac valve calcium scores and pulse wave velocity were not significantly different among the treatment arms. All cause death, stroke, and cardiovascular event rates were similar between the groups. Bleeding outcomes were not significantly different, except for a lower number of life-threatening and major bleeding episodes in the rivaroxaban arms versus the VKA arm."

View attachment 30146

And finally, here is the Slate article exposing the entire Xarelto trial as a scam, with the full knowledge and approval of the FDA.

Flagship Blood Thinner Worse Than Aspirin For Preventing Strokes, Trial Halted

Many of you may have seen the ads on TV for the blood thinner Xarelto. Sadly, those ads have lately started to show increasingly younger people with apparent blood clotting issues, some of them clearly in their 20s. Xarelto is the latest attempt of the pharma industry to replace the old and...

raypeatforum.com

Thank you for info - I will definitely encourage my husband with a fib / xarelto RX to add some k (he still believes his dr in this stuff over my beliefs). I did calcium scoring test a few years ago to appease my dr on my cholesterol levels - my score of zero helped a lot which I attribute to Vit K

 

[GeoX]

@haidut I see your EVOOO Kuinone is available. Congratulations. Would adding a drop of tocopherols as a preservative be beneficial, as is used in @dannyroddy 's PRL D3 with olive oil?

 

[haidut]

@haidut I see your EVOOO Kuinone is available. Congratulations. Would adding a drop of tocopherols as a preservative be beneficial, as is used in @dannyroddy 's PRL D3 with olive oil?

Organic olive oil has natural preservatives inside of it and usually lasts way longer than the maximum shelf-life (12 months) legally allowed for liquid products like ours.

 

[conrad0602]

@haidut quick question. I use your kuinone as my source of k2 which is 2mg per drop. Could you clarify for me if this is 2mg k2 100% powder or 2mg of K2 powder at another percentage and if so what the percentage is? Would help me to know as accurately as possible the dose per drop so i can work with higher dosages. Thanks

 

[golder]

Also, whilst you're answering that as I know you're busy Haidut...
I can't find many references on upper limits of K2. It's so unanimously regarded as prometabolic on just about every axis of health, but I can't find where the diminishing returns are. I love my body's response to K2 and I want to maximise the dosage.
Where would you roughly put the upper limit for a typical 35 year old hypometabolic having been on a lifelong Western diet. Also, roughly what would the ratio of supporting fat solubles need to be to accompany that maximum dosage. Thank you.

 

[conrad0602]

@haidut quick question. I use your kuinone as my source of k2 which is 2mg per drop. Could you clarify for me if this is 2mg k2 100% powder or 2mg of K2 powder at another percentage and if so what the percentage is? Would help me to know as accurately as possible the dose per drop so i can work with higher dosages. Thanks

Be great to get some clarification on this please @haidut

 

[TacoVampire]

I've resorted to buzzing my chest/naval to apply all my supplements. Anyone else?

 

[member11823]

Can I take kuinone internally?

 

[gd81]

Is anyone having troubles with this new olive oil formulation?

I got bigtime stomach upset when I used it orally. Topical application resulted in me breaking out in pimples all over the area where i spread it. This hasn't happened when I've used MCT formulations or K2 in capsules. It hasn't happened when I've used the alcohol based Kuinone in the past either.

I have a super sensitive stomach so I'm not exactly a very good weather vane for irritants.

 

[tca300]

Thank you @haidut for the olive oil version. Great product at a fantastic price!

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Don't remember if I shared this before, but long-term use(1+ year) of Kuinone has resulted in the eruption of my wisdom teeth. Not only did they come out, they were in perfect vertical position. I've done x-rays in the past(2019) and it showed my wisdom teeth were buried and in an inclined position, not perfectly positioned.