Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

haidut

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Joined
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Messages
17,435
Location
USA / Europe
Over the last year a number of people on the forum asked me to release a vitamin K2 supplement as an alternative to the popular (but expensive) Thorne K2 supplement. So, I finally got around to delivering on my promise. Kuinone is a liquid dietary supplement with menatetrenone (MK-4) dissolved in ethanol and SFA esters. If you are wondering what's up with the weird name, well it is a play on the fact that vitamin K is a naphthoquinone, or a type of (q)uinone just like the well-known CoQ10. So, I combined the K from vitamin K and the word quinone to form Kuinone. Hopefully, it is not too confusing to people what the word means.
The fact that it is dissolved in SFA esters + ethanol mixture should dramatically improve topical absorption and allow a much lower daily dose to be used, which will make the bottle last much longer and thus further decrease the overall cost.
Finally, while the bone benefits of vitamin K2 are known to many people on the forum, some of its "niche" effects are not widely known. So, I compiled a (long) list of references broken down by categories for the people who are interested in finding out more about this amazing substance.

Note: This product contains raw material(s) meant for external use only, in cosmetic or other formulations designed for such external use.

*******************************************************************************
Kuinone is a dietary supplement containing vitamin K2 (MK-4) also known as menatetrenone. This product, while consisting entirely of food-grade ingredients, is sanctioned for external use only.

Servings per container: about 720
Serving size: 1 drop
Each serving contains the following ingredients:

Vitamin K2 (MK-4): 2 mg

Other ingredients: add product to shopping cart to see info
*******************************************************************************

References:

General
Highly recommended dose of MK4 for osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamins D and K as pleiotropic nutrients: clinical importance to the skeletal and cardiovascular systems and preliminary evidence for synergy. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin E and K interactions--a 50-year-old problem. - PubMed - NCBI
Pleiotropic actions of vitamin K: protector of bone health and beyond? - PubMed - NCBI
Exocrine pancreatic secretion of phospholipid, menaquinone-4, and caveolin-1 in vivo. - PubMed - NCBI
Improvement of vitamin K status of breastfeeding infants with maternal supplement of vitamin K2 (MK40). - PubMed - NCBI
Antinociceptive effect induced by intraperitoneal administration of vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) in ICR mice. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of dietary fat content on oral bioavailability of menatetrenone in humans. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of food composition on vitamin K absorption in human volunteers. - PubMed - NCBI
Distribution of menaquinone-4, a therapeutic agent for osteoporosis, in bone and other tissues of rats. - PubMed - NCBI


Bone Health
Treatment of glucocorticoid-induced low bone mineral density in children: a systematic review. - PubMed - NCBI
Low-dose menaquinone-4 improves γ-carboxylation of osteocalcin in young males: a non-placebo-controlled dose-response study. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 improves femoral bone strength without altering bone mineral density in gastrectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K₂ therapy for postmenopausal osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K-dependent carboxylation of osteocalcin affects the efficacy of teriparatide (PTH(1-34)) for skeletal repair. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone versus alfacalcidol in the treatment of Chinese postmenopausal women with osteoporosis: a multicenter, randomized, double-blinded, do... - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of vitamin K in postmenopausal women: mini review. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone for the treatment of osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI
Prevention of bone loss in children receiving long-term glucocorticoids with calcium and alfacalcidol or menatetrenone. - PubMed - NCBI
Amelioration of pregnancy-associated osteoporosis after treatment with vitamin K₂: a report of four patients. - PubMed - NCBI
Clinical results of alendronate monotherapy and combined therapy with menatetrenone (VitK₂) in postmenopausal RA patients. - PubMed - NCBI
Bridging the gap between osteoporosis and osteonecrosis of the jaw: preventing and treating BRONJ with MK4. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K supplement along with vitamin D and calcium reduced serum concentration of undercarboxylated osteocalcin while increasing bone mineral de... - PubMed - NCBI
The prevention of hip fracture with menatetrenone and risedronate plus calcium supplementation in elderly patients with Alzheimer disease: a random... - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of vitamin K2 on cortical and cancellous bone mass and hepatic lipids in rats with combined methionine-choline deficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of GGCX gene polymorphism on the responses of serum undercarboxylated osteocalcin and bone turnover markers after treatment with vitamin K2 ... - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of long-term vitamin K(1) (phylloquinone) or vitamin K(2) (menaquinone-4) supplementation on body composition and serum parameters in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K₂ alters bone metabolism markers in hemodialysis patients with a low serum parathyroid hormone level. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of vitamin K2 on cortical and cancellous bone mass, cortical osteocyte and lacunar system, and porosity in sciatic neurectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 promotes bone healing in a rat femoral osteotomy model with or without glucocorticoid treatment. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of combination treatment with alendronate and vitamin K(2) on bone mineral density and strength in ovariectomized mice. - PubMed - NCBI
Prevention of hip fractures by exposure to sunlight and pharmacotherapy in patients with Alzheimer's disease. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K to prevent fractures in older women: systematic review and economic evaluation. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K promotes mineralization, osteoblast-to-osteocyte transition, and an anticatabolic phenotype by {gamma}-carboxylation-dependent and -indep... - PubMed - NCBI
Efficacy of menatetrenone (vitamin K2) against non-vertebral and hip fractures in patients with neurological diseases: meta-analysis of three rando... - PubMed - NCBI
Comparison of the effect of vitamin K(2) and risedronate on trabecular bone in glucocorticoid-treated rats: a bone histomorphometry study. - PubMed - NCBI
Collagen-related abnormalities, reduction in bone quality, and effects of menatetrenone in rats with a congenital ascorbic acid deficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
Prior treatment with vitamin K(2) significantly improves the efficacy of risedronate. - PubMed - NCBI
Short-term menatetrenone therapy increases gamma-carboxylation of osteocalcin with a moderate increase of bone turnover in postmenopausal osteoporo... - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K treatment reduces undercarboxylated osteocalcin but does not alter bone turnover, density, or geometry in healthy postmenopausal North Am... - PubMed - NCBI
Randomized controlled study on the prevention of osteoporotic fractures (OF study): a phase IV clinical study of 15-mg menatetrenone capsules. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2, a gamma-carboxylating factor of gla-proteins, normalizes the bone crystal nucleation impaired by Mg-insufficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
[Treatment of primary osteoporosis with vitamin K2]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Vitamin K metabolism. Menaquinone-4 (MK-4) formation from ingested VK analogues and its potent relation to bone function]. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 induces phosphorylation of protein kinase A and expression of novel target genes in osteoblastic cells. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K induces osteoblast differentiation through pregnane X receptor-mediated transcriptional control of the Msx2 gene. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 supplementation improves hip bone geometry and bone strength indices in postmenopausal women. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone (vitamin K2) and bone quality in the treatment of postmenopausal osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI
Beneficial effect of pretreatment and treatment continuation with risedronate and vitamin K2 on cancellous bone loss after ovariectomy in rats: a b... - PubMed - NCBI
Infrared analysis of bones in magnesium-deficient rats treated with vitamin K2. - PubMed - NCBI
[Active vitamin D and vitamin K as therapeutic agents for osteoporosis]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Diabetic osteopahty and vitamin K]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Therapeutic approaches for diabetic osteopahty]. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 treatment for postmenopausal osteoporosis in Indonesia. - PubMed - NCBI
Geranylgeranylacetone inhibits formation and function of human osteoclasts and prevents bone loss in tail-suspended rats and ovariectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Comparative effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed normal or low calcium diets. - PubMed - NCBI
[The interplay of magnesium and vitamin K2 on bone mineralization]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Vitamin K2 and bone quality]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) and bone quality]. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of vitamin K2 administration on calcium balance and bone mass in young rats fed normal or low calcium diet. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone rescues bone loss by improving osteoblast dysfunction in rats immobilized by sciatic neurectomy. - PubMed - NCBI
RETRACTED: Menatetrenone and vitamin D2 with calcium supplements prevent nonvertebral fracture in elderly women with Alzheimer's disease. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 inhibits glucocorticoid-induced bone loss partly by preventing the reduction of osteoprotegerin (OPG). - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) and alendronate on bone mineral density and bone strength in rats fed a low-magnesium diet. - PubMed - NCBI
Histochemical evaluation for the biological effect of menatetrenone on metaphyseal trabeculae of ovariectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of vitamin K2 in hemodialysis patients with low serum parathyroid hormone levels. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 and geranylgeraniol, its side chain component, inhibited osteoclast formation in a different manner. - PubMed - NCBI
Protective effect of vitamins K2 and D3 on prednisolone-induced loss of bone mineral density in the lumbar spine. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone ameliorates reduction in bone mineral density and bone strength in sciatic neurectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Treatment with vitamin D3 and/or vitamin K2 for postmenopausal osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone (vitamin K2) acts directly on circulating human osteoclast precursors. - PubMed - NCBI
High serum levels of menatetrenone in male patients with ossification of the posterior longitudinal ligament. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of menatetrenone (vitamin K2) treatment on bone loss in patients with anorexia nervosa. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of vitamin K2 on cortical and cancellous bones in orchidectomized and/or sciatic neurectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K stimulates osteoblastogenesis and inhibits osteoclastogenesis in human bone marrow cell culture. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of vitamin K2 on cortical and cancellous bones in orchidectomized young rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Pharmacodynamics of menatetrenone and effects on bone metabolism in continuous ambulatory peritoneal dialysis patients. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) inhibits bone loss induced by prednisolone partly through enhancement of bone formation in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Menatetrenone prevents osteoblast dysfunction in unilateral sciatic neurectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI
[Effect of menatetrenone (V.K2) on bone mineral density and bone strength in Ca/Mg deficient rats]. - PubMed - NCBI
Time-dependent effects of vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) on bone metabolism in postmenopausal women. - PubMed - NCBI
Maintenance of trabecular structure and bone volume by vitamin K(2) in mature rats with long-term tail suspension. - PubMed - NCBI
Amelioration of osteoporosis by menatetrenone in elderly female Parkinson's disease patients with vitamin D deficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
A comparison of alfacalcidol and menatetrenone for the treatment of bone loss in an ovariectomized rat model of osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) for bone loss in patients with cirrhosis of the liver. - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11895104
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11855678
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11853280
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11846334
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11793169
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11706280
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11403096
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11180916
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11144162
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11113387
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10977000
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10750566
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10652960
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10633277
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10621944
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10446758
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10443663
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10227010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9844410
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9737352
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9076586
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8939773
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7756045
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7821350
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7927067
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8089928
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8155403
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8371513
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1530637

Inflammation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8240383
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8511981


Cardiovascular disease (CVD)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23344475
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18234293
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14654717
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9414028
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9247360

Diabetes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21136047
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11325029

Kidney Health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22080166

Cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23225445
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23191943
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21661384
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410069
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22870131
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21163409
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21109972
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20569983
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19639210
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19550077
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19501932
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18251162
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17404108
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17399847
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17376044
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16400650
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11925874
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11807630
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10865985
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10641439
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9827941
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9177427
https://www.glowm.com/pdf/Book-OvarianCancerTherapeutics-CC-BY-Ch13.pdf




Neurological Health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24108469
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23682563
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20092997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19235890
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14704312

Testosterone
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21914161
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21894328

Estrogen
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15763078
 

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Tarmander

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Very nice. Would the place of topical application have different effects? I.e. Applying it to the jaw would give a "strengthening"/wider look?
 

haidut

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Tarmander said:
post 118782 Very nice. Would the place of topical application have different effects? I.e. Applying it to the jaw would give a "strengthening"/wider look?

I have not seen any studies on that, probably because not many scientists have thought of using vitamin K topically. However, I think that would be an interesting experiment. Another interesting one would be applying on the testicles or in that general area given the studies showing vitamin K directly stimulated testicle testosterone synthesis form precursors like pregnenolone and DHEA. So, a few drops of Pansterone and 1 drop of Kuinone may have an effect.
 
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milk_lover

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I placed an order and I can't wait for it to arrive :) I've been thinking of mk-4 all this time and I want to experiment with it. Thanks haidut!
 

haidut

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milk_lover said:
post 118793 I placed an order and I can't wait for it to arrive :) I've been thinking of mk-4 all this time and I want to experiment with it. Thanks haidut!

Thanks for ordering. It will probably ship today. Please keep me posted on your results.
 
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milk_lover

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haidut said:
post 118794
milk_lover said:
post 118793 I placed an order and I can't wait for it to arrive :) I've been thinking of mk-4 all this time and I want to experiment with it. Thanks haidut!

Thanks for ordering. It will probably ship today. Please keep me posted on your results.
I will :)
 
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Tarmander

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milk_lover

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Tarmander said:
post 118797
milk_lover said:
post 118796
haidut said:
post 118794
milk_lover said:
post 118793 I placed an order and I can't wait for it to arrive :) I've been thinking of mk-4 all this time and I want to experiment with it. Thanks haidut!

Thanks for ordering. It will probably ship today. Please keep me posted on your results.
I will :)

Rub it on your balls dude and let us know
:lol: well that's a possibility! I have some ideas about mk-4, in the meantime I will go through the mk-4 posts on the site to educate myself more.
 
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Tarmander

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milk_lover said:
post 118798
Tarmander said:
post 118797
milk_lover said:
post 118796
haidut said:
post 118794
milk_lover said:
post 118793 I placed an order and I can't wait for it to arrive :) I've been thinking of mk-4 all this time and I want to experiment with it. Thanks haidut!

Thanks for ordering. It will probably ship today. Please keep me posted on your results.
I will :)

Rub it on your balls dude and let us know
:lol: well that's a possibility! I have some ideas about mk-4, in the meantime I will go through the mk-4 posts on the site to educate myself more.

It is for SCIENCE man...reach for the stars
 
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Dan Wich

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Jan 22, 2013
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Congrats Haidut, this looks cool. I just wish you'd included a reference or two in your post :)
 

hmac

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Jun 9, 2015
Messages
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Amazing, thanks! Apologies if you have mentioned this elsewhere, but have you ever seen evidence to suggest depletion of other fat solubles by large doses of K2? I've heard this mentioned but never actually seen evidence for it.
 

haidut

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hmac said:
post 118826 Amazing, thanks! Apologies if you have mentioned this elsewhere, but have you ever seen evidence to suggest depletion of other fat solubles by large doses of K2? I've heard this mentioned but never actually seen evidence for it.

I have seen evidence for large doses of vitamin E depleting vitamin K, not the other way around. But the dose of vitamin E was high and taken long term. It was equivalent to 2g for a human taken for 6 months. Not something very realistic, but the depletion of vitamin K by vitamin is thought to be the reason behind the negative effects in the clinical trials with vitamin E and prostate cancer.
viewtopic.php?t=8569
 
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hmac

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haidut said:
post 118831
hmac said:
post 118826 Amazing, thanks! Apologies if you have mentioned this elsewhere, but have you ever seen evidence to suggest depletion of other fat solubles by large doses of K2? I've heard this mentioned but never actually seen evidence for it.

I have seen evidence for large doses of vitamin E depleting vitamin K, not the other way around. But the dose of vitamin E was high and taken long term. It was equivalent to 2g for a human taken for 6 months. Not something very realistic, but the depletion of vitamin K by vitamin is thought to be the reason behind the negative effects in the clinical trials with vitamin E and prostate cancer.
viewtopic.php?t=8569
Thanks, and I actually just saw that in the third study you have attached there is a possible mechanism for E's depletion of K but not the other way round.
 
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michael94

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Haidut, have you posted before on the chemical similarities and implications between vitamin K and things like tetracycline? I know you mentioned it in one of the podcasts with Danny Roddy but I wanted to hear a bit more. If that's included in the references you posted I apologize but I did not find it.

Edit: I looked a bit harder and found this from Haidut, it might be useful to others:

"...As per Peat's writings and readily verifiable online, vitamin K, emodin, lapachon, and the tetracycline antibiotics class are really the same substance, with varying potency. I think he said that they are in increasing potency in the order I listed them. So, depending on the potency ratio you should be able to achieve what tetracycline does by taking say a higher dose vitamin K. However, the studies with vitamin K show potent anti-cancer effects both for prevention and treatment in human doses 100mg-150mg daily, which is suspiciously close to the therapeutic doses of doxycycline (100mg+ daily). That makes me think that for cancer prevention and treatment vitamin K may not be that much "weaker" than the tetracyclines."

So, if Peat is right then vitamin K is essentially a type of tetracycline as are the other quinones like lapachon and emodin. Maybe I should have said that vitamin K action (as a type of tetracycline) is probably like the other tetracycline antibiotics on cancer. We certainly have evidence for vitamin K preventing and maybe even treating some cancers. I did not mean to say that vitamin K should act like a general purpose antibiotics on micro-organisms, and I don't see who else interpreted it that way.
 

zanolachino

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Apr 25, 2013
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In terms of absorption, how would this MK-4 used transdermally compare with other MK-4 supplements taken orally (with adequate fat)?
 

haidut

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icecreamlover said:
post 118834 Haidut, have you posted before on the chemical similarities and implications between vitamin K and things like tetracycline? I know you mentioned it in one of the podcasts with Danny Roddy but I wanted to hear a bit more. If that's included in the references you posted I apologize but I did not find it.

Edit: I looked a bit harder and found this from Haidut, it might be useful to others:

"...As per Peat's writings and readily verifiable online, vitamin K, emodin, lapachon, and the tetracycline antibiotics class are really the same substance, with varying potency. I think he said that they are in increasing potency in the order I listed them. So, depending on the potency ratio you should be able to achieve what tetracycline does by taking say a higher dose vitamin K. However, the studies with vitamin K show potent anti-cancer effects both for prevention and treatment in human doses 100mg-150mg daily, which is suspiciously close to the therapeutic doses of doxycycline (100mg+ daily). That makes me think that for cancer prevention and treatment vitamin K may not be that much "weaker" than the tetracyclines."

So, if Peat is right then vitamin K is essentially a type of tetracycline as are the other quinones like lapachon and emodin. Maybe I should have said that vitamin K action (as a type of tetracycline) is probably like the other tetracycline antibiotics on cancer. We certainly have evidence for vitamin K preventing and maybe even treating some cancers. I did not mean to say that vitamin K should act like a general purpose antibiotics on micro-organisms, and I don't see who else interpreted it that way.

Yeah you found it, and here is the quote form Peat:
https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5151
"...RP: There is a series that actually starts with vitamin K. It's a quinone structure that has been studied from about 1910 on as an anti-cancer, antiviral, energy-promoting, respiration-improving, anti-inflammatory, anti-fibrotic substance. For example, vitamin K is now used to strengthen bones, prevent osteoporosis and prevent calcification of arteries. That's a basic, vital function that does have tremendous range of functions. The emodin in cascara is a three-ring substance and the tetracycline is a four-ring substance, but they are all quinones that are intensified by adding the extra ring. So from vitamin K all the way up to tetracycline, it's a similar biological effect. It sounds too good to be true, to be able to stimulate respiration, be anti-inflammatory, germicidal, anti-cancer and so on."

viewtopic.php?t=5419
"...RP: If you put vitamin K and emodin and lapacho in a row and tetracycline (the antibiotic which is an anti-inflammatory), they're essentially the same structure with a different number of rings. But it's like each one is an analog of the other and each one has properties overlapping with those of the other — anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, anti-stress."
 
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haidut

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zanolachino said:
post 118838 In terms of absorption, how would this MK-4 used transdermally compare with other MK-4 supplements taken orally (with adequate fat)?

It may have higher bioavailability and longer half-life.
 
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FredSonoma

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haidut said:
post 118839
icecreamlover said:
post 118834 Haidut, have you posted before on the chemical similarities and implications between vitamin K and things like tetracycline? I know you mentioned it in one of the podcasts with Danny Roddy but I wanted to hear a bit more. If that's included in the references you posted I apologize but I did not find it.

Edit: I looked a bit harder and found this from Haidut, it might be useful to others:

"...As per Peat's writings and readily verifiable online, vitamin K, emodin, lapachon, and the tetracycline antibiotics class are really the same substance, with varying potency. I think he said that they are in increasing potency in the order I listed them. So, depending on the potency ratio you should be able to achieve what tetracycline does by taking say a higher dose vitamin K. However, the studies with vitamin K show potent anti-cancer effects both for prevention and treatment in human doses 100mg-150mg daily, which is suspiciously close to the therapeutic doses of doxycycline (100mg+ daily). That makes me think that for cancer prevention and treatment vitamin K may not be that much "weaker" than the tetracyclines."

So, if Peat is right then vitamin K is essentially a type of tetracycline as are the other quinones like lapachon and emodin. Maybe I should have said that vitamin K action (as a type of tetracycline) is probably like the other tetracycline antibiotics on cancer. We certainly have evidence for vitamin K preventing and maybe even treating some cancers. I did not mean to say that vitamin K should act like a general purpose antibiotics on micro-organisms, and I don't see who else interpreted it that way.

Yeah you found it, and here is the quote form Peat:
viewtopic.php?t=5151
"...RP: There is a series that actually starts with vitamin K. It's a quinone structure that has been studied from about 1910 on as an anti-cancer, antiviral, energy-promoting, respiration-improving, anti-inflammatory, anti-fibrotic substance. For example, vitamin K is now used to strengthen bones, prevent osteoporosis and prevent calcification of arteries. That's a basic, vital function that does have tremendous range of functions. The emodin in cascara is a three-ring substance and the tetracycline is a four-ring substance, but they are all quinones that are intensified by adding the extra ring. So from vitamin K all the way up to tetracycline, it's a similar biological effect. It sounds too good to be true, to be able to stimulate respiration, be anti-inflammatory, germicidal, anti-cancer and so on."

https://raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5419
"...RP: If you put vitamin K and emodin and lapacho in a row and tetracycline (the antibiotic which is an anti-inflammatory), they're essentially the same structure with a different number of rings. But it's like each one is an analog of the other and each one has properties overlapping with those of the other — anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, anti-stress."

Would Vitamin K have the same kind of beneficial effects on the intestines if taken topically rather than orally?
 
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haidut

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Dan Wich said:
post 118825 Congrats Haidut, this looks cool. I just wish you'd included a reference or two in your post :)

Noted, Dan. I am just responding to some comments I got through email that I am not including *enough* references in my supplements threads :shock:
So... I thought this time I'd better address these concerns.
 
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honeybee

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Haidut -if I'm using k2 for cleaning up a fatty liver how would the transdermal route work? I thought applying on skin bypassed the liver. Thx.
 
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