Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[Tarmander]

Thank you for the excellent feedback! I also experience drowsiness from things that improve metabolism and those include T3, methylene blue, beta-lapachone, emodin, and of course vitamin K2. For that reason, if I take any of these I do it at night.

If you addressed this somewhere else I apologize, but what would be your best bet on the conversion of this topical form to oral? The 1.5mg from one drop already feels about as strong as the 5mg pill I was testing.

 

[haidut]

If you addressed this somewhere else I apologize, but what would be your best bet on the conversion of this topical form to oral? The 1.5mg from one drop already feels about as strong as the 5mg pill I was testing.

I am about to post some studies on steroids showing if dissolve them in DMSO you get 3 - 10 times better bioavailability. So, at a minimum, I expect 1 drop of Kuinone to be about equal to 4mg - 5mg Thorne or other products, which matches well your guess and experience.

 

[Tarmander]

I am about to post some studies on steroids showing if dissolve them in DMSO you get 3 - 10 times better bioavailability. So, at a minimum, I expect 1 drop of Kuinone to be about equal to 4mg - 5mg Thorne or other products, which matches well your guess and experience.

Thank you!

 

[narouz]

I am about to post some studies on steroids showing if dissolve them in DMSO you get 3 - 10 times better bioavailability. So, at a minimum, I expect 1 drop of Kuinone to be about equal to 4mg - 5mg Thorne or other products, which matches well your guess and experience.

I guess this might be why I'm having a hard time getting a handle on
how to dose your NDT in DMSO, haidut.
If it increases bioavailability 10 fold....

 

[haidut]

I guess this might be why I'm having a hard time getting a handle on
how to dose your NDT in DMSO, haidut.
If it increases bioavailability 10 fold....

Here it is if you are interested:
Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso | Ray Peat Forum

Sorry about the increased bioavalability screwing up the dosing

 

[narouz]

Here it is if you are interested:
Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso | Ray Peat Forum

Sorry about the increased bioavalability screwing up the dosing:)

Yeah, your product works too good, dammit!

 

[johnwester130]

How does this compare to mk7 ?

Also, will DMSO increase the half life ?

and do you believe in a calcification of the skull bones, that may cause hair loss ?

 

[tara]

I guess this might be why I'm having a hard time getting a handle on
how to dose your NDT in DMSO, haidut.
If it increases bioavailability 10 fold....

Unless Peat is right, and it needs to be digested by the gut to be useful.
From Cantstoppeating:

Desiccated thyroid gland doesn’t contain any free hormone; the gland contains thyroglobulin, a protein, which when digested releases the hormones.

 

[Tarmander]

Hey Haidut. When I started taking this topical k, I also changed a few other things around, and noticed some thinning and receding hair. I am trying to nail down exactly what is doing it. Any chance the K might be a factor? Reduced calcium in the blood raising prolactin or something? Also been doing more salt, little less protein, more sun, less topical DHEA and preg (haven't felt I've needed it with this K), and a few other things. Can't figure it out.

 

[haidut]

How does this compare to mk7 ?

Also, will DMSO increase the half life ?

and do you believe in a calcification of the skull bones, that may cause hair loss ?

As I have said many times on the forum, I prefer vitamin K2 (MK-4). Most of the research on MK-7 is suspect and sponsored by companies producing it. There is a reason only MK-4 is approved as osteoporosis drug in Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.
As far as the half-life, anything that absorbs through the skin tends to have longer half life due to the lower impact of hepatic metabolism. I encourage people to do blood tests to confirm effects and half-life.

 

[haidut]

Unless Peat is right, and it needs to be digested by the gut to be useful.
From Cantstoppeating:

All I can say is that not all NDT's are created equal.

 

[dadon]

Hey,
So I´ve been using Kuinone for a few days now. Most of the days I applied it topically (1-2 Drops) and once orally (one drop).

I´ve noticed that it reduced my white tongue, there seems to be less built-up on my teeth (which I´ve destroyed 2 years ago due to making a lot of mistake eating this "peat" way and neglecting hygiene) and my gums appear less red which is a good sign. Those are the effects I was hoping for when I bought it.

I´m still sceptical about the DMSO. As others have mentioned previously it may sting and cause skin rashes (yesterday after applying it to the crook of my arm the skin got really inflamed). But when the drops hit the skin it feels like they interact with the skin pretty quickly. Let´s hope it is safe enough for daily use.

My issue (that I have mentioned to haidut in an e-mail) is that Kuinone leaves a yellow residue on the skin (and I mean REALLY yellow almost as I´d have dipped it in color). The same also happens with the energin supp. Is there any way to determine how much of those supplements is absorbed? Haidut has mentioned absorption rates of up to 80%, but judging from the intensity of the color they seem to just stick to the skin.

 

[cpaqf1]

Hey,
So I´ve been using Kuinone for a few days now. Most of the days I applied it topically (1-2 Drops) and once orally (one drop).

I´ve noticed that it reduced my white tongue, there seems to be less built-up on my teeth (which I´ve destroyed 2 years ago due to making a lot of mistake eating this "peat" way and neglecting hygiene) and my gums appear less red which is a good sign. Those are the effects I was hoping for when I bought it.

I´m still sceptical about the DMSO. As others have mentioned previously it may sting and cause skin rashes (yesterday after applying it to the crook of my arm the skin got really inflamed). But when the drops hit the skin it feels like they interact with the skin pretty quickly. Let´s hope it is safe enough for daily use.

My issue (that I have mentioned to haidut in an e-mail) is that Kuinone leaves a yellow residue on the skin (and I mean REALLY yellow almost as I´d have dipped it in color). The same also happens with the energin supp. Is there any way to determine how much of those supplements is absorbed? Haidut has mentioned absorption rates of up to 80%, but judging from the intensity of the color they seem to just stick to the skin.

I already emailed him about it, here was his response:

Yes, it is normal to stain as all quinones do the same. CoQ10 also stains as does emodin and the other quinones. The full absorption takes up to a day, but about 80% of the vitamin absorbs within the first hour. Our product Energin also stains but people have confirmed by blood tests that virtually all of it absorbs through the skin.

 

[dadon]

I already emailed him about it, here was his response:

Yes, it is normal to stain as all quinones do the same. CoQ10 also stains as does emodin and the other quinones. The full absorption takes up to a day, but about 80% of the vitamin absorbs within the first hour. Our product Energin also stains but people have confirmed by blood tests that virtually all of it absorbs through the skin.

I got a similar Reply from him. Then he referred me to this thread, so I don´t want to bother him anymore. Do you know how long it took for the energin to absorb through the skin? When I took it orally it didn´t do much (although I might have got more cold). Yesterday I put some on my wrists and it made me tired quickly (relaxed in a good way).

 

[haidut]

I got a similar Reply from him. Then he referred me to this thread, so I don´t want to bother him anymore. Do you know how long it took for the energin to absorb through the skin? When I took it orally it didn´t do much (although I might have got more cold). Yesterday I put some on my wrists and it made me tired quickly (relaxed in a good way).

Thanks for the feedback on Kuinone!
There is study posted in the Energin thread that says up to 90% of the B vitamins it looked at are absorbed within the first hour and then there is a "long-tail" of absorbing the other 10%-20% over the next 24 hours.
Methylene blue applied topically has a very similar effect on skin coloring and also on absorption kinetics. Most of it absorbs within the first 2 hours and then the remiander can take up to several days to absorb. Google "methylene blue topical absorption" for more info.

 

[whit]

My issue (that I have mentioned to haidut in an e-mail) is that Kuinone leaves a yellow residue on the skin (and I mean REALLY yellow almost as I´d have dipped it in color). The same also happens with the energin supp. Is there any way to determine how much of those supplements is absorbed? Haidut has mentioned absorption rates of up to 80%, but judging from the intensity of the color they seem to just stick to the skin.

I had the same thing happen with the staining. When I cover it with estoban then some stressnon the color fades away quite quickly. Its likely carrying the rest through.
Give it a try and see if you get the same effect.

 

[whit]

We also use coconut oil to dilute a little as well.

 

[X160]

Feedback: This product has made tremendous difference to my dental heath. My gums used to bleed every-time I used to brush and I used to get a lot of plaque too. All these issues are gone now.
I also notice a subtle rise in libido.

 

[whit]

Haidut, is there any particular protocol you've come across to cleaning the skin before application of topicals?
I've been looking but haven't seen anything on it.
Thanks.

 

[Miggie]

Feedback: This product has made tremendous difference to my dental heath. My gums used to bleed every-time I used to brush and I used to get a lot of plaque too. All these issues are gone now.
I also notice a subtle rise in libido.

What is your dosage and how long have you been using it?

I'm going to order a few bottles of this as well soon and then try 30mg a day to see if my jaw will grow wider.