Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[mevcit]

Silica-induced scleroderma - PubMed

In a survey done in East Germany between 1981 and 1988, we found that 93 of 120 male scleroderma patients had long-term exposure to silica dust. We describe our findings in 12 patients with scleroderma and silicosis. The exposure time to silica dust was between 3 and 34 years; the interval...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Silica, present in most supplements/food, activates the endotoxin receptor (TLR4)

Many of my readers know about the health risks of silica - a substance doctors and pundits call completely "benign, present in virtually all commercially sold dietary supplements and also in most commercially sold food (even organic ones!). The most commonly used form commercially is silicon...

raypeatforum.com

lol

Silica dust or any other dust is harmful when inhaled. Do you understand the article that you just read?

Silica is not harmful with oral consumption. We need silica for collagen synthesis, for bone/joint/skin/hair health. We consume a lot of silica from food every day, we need it.

You are a hopeless case but I still wanted to help you and explain the facts. Yet I'm tired of doing so. Bye.

 

[Peatness]

Silica dust or any other dust is harmful when inhaled. Do you understand the article that you just read?

Silica is not harmful with oral consumption. We need silica for collagen synthesis, for bone/joint/skin/hair health. We consume a lot of silica from food every day, we need it.

You are a hopeless case but I still wanted to help you and explain the facts. Yet I'm tired of doing so. Bye.

Hopeless? You are fast to insult, I wonder why? Dr Peat has been warning of these particles for decades.

 

[mevcit]

Silica, present in most supplements/food, activates the endotoxin receptor (TLR4)

Many of my readers know about the health risks of silica - a substance doctors and pundits call completely "benign, present in virtually all commercially sold dietary supplements and also in most commercially sold food (even organic ones!). The most commonly used form commercially is silicon...

raypeatforum.com

I've just realized that the forum post above in the link was written by Haidut, the seller of Kuinone. He doesn't even understand the difference between inhalation and ingestion of silica when the studies he was referring to were based on inhalation of silica. LOL

 

[Mossy]

Silica, present in most supplements/food, activates the endotoxin receptor (TLR4)

Many of my readers know about the health risks of silica - a substance doctors and pundits call completely "benign, present in virtually all commercially sold dietary supplements and also in most commercially sold food (even organic ones!). The most commonly used form commercially is silicon...

raypeatforum.com

I've just realized that the forum post above in the link was written by Haidut, the seller of Kuinone. He doesn't even understand the difference between inhalation and ingestion of silica when the studies he was referring to were based on inhalation of silica. LOL

Why don't you start your own thread about MK4 instead of trolling Haidut and harassing Peatness?

 

[haidut]

Silica, present in most supplements/food, activates the endotoxin receptor (TLR4)

Many of my readers know about the health risks of silica - a substance doctors and pundits call completely "benign, present in virtually all commercially sold dietary supplements and also in most commercially sold food (even organic ones!). The most commonly used form commercially is silicon...

raypeatforum.com

I've just realized that the forum post above in the link was written by Haidut, the seller of Kuinone. He doesn't even understand the difference between inhalation and ingestion of silica when the studies he was referring to were based on inhalation of silica. LOL

Lol, do you mind enlightening us by explaining why silica would activate TLR4 when inhaled but fail to do so when ingested, especially considering the GI tract has a high expression of TLR4?

Oral intake of silica nanoparticles exacerbates intestinal inflammation

Nanoparticles, i.e., particles with a diameter of ≤100 nm regardless of their composing material, are added to various foods as moisturizers, coloring…

www.sciencedirect.com

@Mossy @Peatness

 

[tastyfood]

Lol, do you mind enlightening us by explaining why silica would activate TLR4 when inhaled but fail to do so when ingested, especially considering the GI tract has a high expression of TLR4?

Oral intake of silica nanoparticles exacerbates intestinal inflammation

Nanoparticles, i.e., particles with a diameter of ≤100 nm regardless of their composing material, are added to various foods as moisturizers, coloring…

www.sciencedirect.com

@Mossy @Peatness

How is this silicon dioxide added as a food additive different than the silica that is naturally occurring in food though? I think this is what might be confusing people in the forum. Is this situation similar to how citric acid as an additive is harmful but ok when it's naturally occurring in citrus fruits and juices?

Thank you!

 

[haidut]

How is this silicon dioxide added as a food additive different than the silica that is naturally occurring in food though? I think this is what might be confusing people in the forum. Is this situation similar to how citric acid as an additive is harmful but ok when it's naturally occurring in citrus fruits and juices?

Thank you!

Citric acid is not benign (depending on dose) when ingested from natural sources. It can increase fatty acid synthase (FAS) activity and this is probably one of the mechanisms through which it activates dormant tumors (as Peat mentioned). Somebody asked him about the high amounts of citric acid in OJ and he said it would have been a problem without the flavonoids in OJ such as naringenin and apigenin. And then industrial citric acid is a whole separate animal with its heavy metal contaminations, etc. Not sure if silica's inflammatory effects are due to an innate property of activating TLR4 or because the studies used synthetic/industrial material for their experiments, which was contaminated with harmful things. Though, considering there are several studies, by independent authors who don't know about (and cite) each other's work, showing silica to be pro-inflammatory I am inclined to believe it is an innate property of silica and any contaminations just add to that negative effect.

 

[Peatness]

Why don't you start your own thread about MK4 instead of trolling Haidut and harassing Peatness?

Thank you.

Lol, do you mind enlightening us by explaining why silica would activate TLR4 when inhaled but fail to do so when ingested, especially considering the GI tract has a high expression of TLR4?

Oral intake of silica nanoparticles exacerbates intestinal inflammation

Nanoparticles, i.e., particles with a diameter of ≤100 nm regardless of their composing material, are added to various foods as moisturizers, coloring…

www.sciencedirect.com

@Mossy @Peatness

I've seen enough evidence to warrant caution with these substances. I'm not sure what the motivation is for anyone to argue otherwise.

 

[tastyfood]

Citric acid is not benign (depending on dose) when ingested from natural sources. It can increase fatty acid synthase (FAS) activity and this is probably one of the mechanisms through which it activates dormant tumors (as Peat mentioned). Somebody asked him about the high amounts of citric acid in OJ and he said it would have been a problem without the flavonoids in OJ such as naringenin and apigenin. And then industrial citric acid is a whole separate animal with its heavy metal contaminations, etc. Not sure if silica's inflammatory effects are due to an innate property of activating TLR4 or because the studies used synthetic/industrial material for their experiments, which was contaminated with harmful things. Though, considering there are several studies, by independent authors who don't know about (and cite) each other's work, showing silica to be pro-inflammatory I am inclined to believe it is an innate property of silica and any contaminations just add to that negative effect.

Thanks. That makes sense with OJ.

I think a lot of us are wondering about naturally occurring silica after testing high for aluminum. It is said that silicon rich mineral water flushes the aluminum out in the urine. In studies, they show that the aluminum and silicon are flushed out together. I guess it is possible that water-soluble orthosilicic acid present in some of these mineral waters is safe in the same way the flavonoids make the citric acid in OJ safe.

 

[haidut]

Thanks. That makes sense with OJ.

I think a lot of us are wondering about naturally occurring silica after testing high for aluminum. It is said that silicon rich mineral water flushes the aluminum out in the urine. In studies, they show that the aluminum and silicon are flushed out together. I guess it is possible that water-soluble orthosilicic acid present in some of these mineral waters is safe in the same way the flavonoids make the citric acid in OJ safe.

Something like magnesium malate would probably be safer for displacing aluminium. I think a few forum users reported in the past success in lowering aluminium (based on hair tests) with that method.

 

[joaquin]

Citric acid is not benign (depending on dose) when ingested from natural sources. It can increase fatty acid synthase (FAS) activity and this is probably one of the mechanisms through which it activates dormant tumors (as Peat mentioned). Somebody asked him about the high amounts of citric acid in OJ and he said it would have been a problem without the flavonoids in OJ such as naringenin and apigenin. And then industrial citric acid is a whole separate animal with its heavy metal contaminations, etc. Not sure if silica's inflammatory effects are due to an innate property of activating TLR4 or because the studies used synthetic/industrial material for their experiments, which was contaminated with harmful things. Though, considering there are several studies, by independent authors who don't know about (and cite) each other's work, showing silica to be pro-inflammatory I am inclined to believe it is an innate property of silica and any contaminations just add to that negative effect.

Another pertinent question: Just exactly HOW harmful is it?

Because virtually everything is harmful, so we must choose what to use and what not to use. I don't think citric acid or silica used orally is that harmful. Its just like the methylene blue that has an tiny amount of heavy metals in it. Just nothing I'm going to lie awake at night worrying about.

 

[haidut]

Another pertinent question: Just exactly HOW harmful is it?

Because virtually everything is harmful, so we must choose what to use and what not to use. I don't think citric acid or silica used orally is that harmful. Its just like the methylene blue that has an tiny amount of heavy metals in it. Just nothing I'm going to lie awake at night worrying about.

It is hard to quantify it, but for citric acid the animal studies suggest anything over ~2g human equivalent dose is probably not safe if done on a daily basis. For silica - well, the studies used really small amounts, even smaller than what would be present in supplements. If citric acid is consumed from food sources it is probably OK as many/most of those have other nutrients balancing it. However, I can't really say the same for silicon dioxide as (unlike citric acid) it has no physiological role and is the evidence seem to suggest it is a powerful trigger of inflammation even in very small amounts. Also, again unlike citric acid, I am not aware what one can consume as a "balancing" nutrient to offset the dangers of silica. This is probably why silica is classified as an industrial/occupational hazard while citric acid is not.

Silicon dioxide nanoparticle exposure affects small intestine function in an in vitro model - PubMed

The use of nanomaterials to enhance properties of food and improve delivery of orally administered drugs has become common, but the potential health effects of these ingested nanomaterials remain unknown. The goal of this study is to characterize the properties of silicon dioxide...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Silicon dioxide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[joaquin]

It is hard to quantify it, but for citric acid the animal studies suggest anything over ~2g human equivalent dose is probably not safe if done on a daily basis. For silica - well, the studies used really small amounts, even smaller than what would be present in supplements. If citric acid is consumed from food sources it is probably OK as many/most of those have other nutrients balancing it. However, I can't really say the same for silicon dioxide as (unlike citric acid) it has no physiological role and is the evidence seem to suggest it is a powerful trigger of inflammation even in very small amounts. Also, again unlike citric acid, I am not aware what one can consume as a "balancing" nutrient to offset the dangers of silica. This is probably why silica is classified as an industrial/occupational hazard while citric acid is not.

Silicon dioxide nanoparticle exposure affects small intestine function in an in vitro model - PubMed

The use of nanomaterials to enhance properties of food and improve delivery of orally administered drugs has become common, but the potential health effects of these ingested nanomaterials remain unknown. The goal of this study is to characterize the properties of silicon dioxide...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Silicon dioxide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From the wikipedia link you supplied:

Silica ingested orally is essentially nontoxic, with an LD50 of 5000 mg/kg (5 g/kg).[18] A 2008 study following subjects for 15 years found that higher levels of silica in water appeared to decrease the risk of dementia. An increase of 10 mg/day of silica in drinking water was associated with a decreased risk of dementia of 11%.[52]

Inhaling finely divided crystalline silica dust can lead to silicosis, bronchitis, or lung cancer, as the dust becomes lodged in the lungs and continuously irritates the tissue, reducing lung capacities.[53] When fine silica particles are inhaled in large enough quantities (such as through occupational exposure), it increases the risk of systemic autoimmune diseases such as lupus[54] and rheumatoid arthritis compared to expected rates in the general population.[55]

 

[haidut]

From the wikipedia link you supplied:

Yes, but that is about direct/acute toxicity. The LD50 does not capture issues such as long-term inflammation caused by silica by activating TLR4, among other inflammatory pathways. Here is what OSHA has to say about (inhaled) silica, and when ingested chronically it probably has similar effects due to activation of the same inflammatory pathways in the intestine.

Silica, Crystalline - Overview | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

"...Workers who inhale these very small crystalline silica particles are at increased risk of developing serious silica-related diseases, including:

• Silicosis, an incurable lung disease that can lead to disability and death;
• Lung cancer;
• Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD); and
• Kidney disease.

..."

For something to be declared an occupational/industrial hazard, the evidence of harm from chronic exposure is pretty well-established, especially considering the deliberately skewed measures of risk OSHA has that favor corporations/industry at the expense of the worker/consumer exposed to the toxin.

 

[tastyfood]

Despite the evidence against ingested silica in its naturally occurring form, I still have doubts about the harm with Fiji water. In that case the silica, and its orthosilicic acid, are perfectly dissolved in water, and they leave through the urine pretty quickly. They leave the urine supposedly bound to aluminum, so it's doing some good, while quickly being excreted without much of an opportunity to do harm.

This reminds me about how regular bowel movements make harmful substances less harmful due to the quick transit time.

 

[haidut]

Despite the evidence against ingested silica in its naturally occurring form, I still have doubts about the harm with Fiji water. In that case the silica, and its orthosilicic acid, are perfectly dissolved in water, and they leave through the urine pretty quickly. They leave the urine supposedly bound to aluminum, so it's doing some good, while quickly being excreted without much of an opportunity to do harm.

This reminds me about how regular bowel movements make harmful substances less harmful due to the quick transit time.

Is the form in Fiji water silicon dioxide or some other silicon salt? That may make a difference. Silicon dioxide is basically powdered glass and easily injures the intestine. Other silicon salts such as the carbonate may be less harmful.

 

[tastyfood]

Is the form in Fiji water silicon dioxide or some other silicon salt? That may make a difference. Silicon dioxide is basically powdered glass and easily injures the intestine. Other silicon salts such as the carbonate may be less harmful.

Fiji water is recommended for its high content of orthosilicic acid, which is "assumed to be present when silicon dioxide (silica) SiO2 dissolves in water at a millimolar concentration level" (Source).

For what it's worth, Fiji water says "silica" on the label, and that appears to be what it's tested for: WHAT TYPES OF MINERALS DOES FIJI WATER CONTAIN?. I think this is a marketing plot as silica (or "silicon rich") is easier to communicate than orthosilicic acid.

To me the question that still remains is if silica in its water dissolved form of orthosilicic acid is as harmful as the silica found in supplements (even if extracted from natural sources) or in the air that some workers breath.

 

[mevcit]

Lol, do you mind enlightening us by explaining why silica would activate TLR4 when inhaled but fail to do so when ingested, especially considering the GI tract has a high expression of TLR4?

Oral intake of silica nanoparticles exacerbates intestinal inflammation

Nanoparticles, i.e., particles with a diameter of ≤100 nm regardless of their composing material, are added to various foods as moisturizers, coloring…

www.sciencedirect.com

@Mossy @Peatness

Is the form in Fiji water silicon dioxide or some other silicon salt? That may make a difference. Silicon dioxide is basically powdered glass and easily injures the intestine. Other silicon salts such as the carbonate may be less harmful.

1) Silicon dioxide (silica) is present in nature in crystalline or amorphous forms. An example to the crystalline state is quartz as in sand or rocks. Silicon dioxide is also naturally present in plants, but in amorphous form! Similarly, silicon dioxide used as food additive in foods or supplements is in amorphous form. Crystalline silica and amorphous silica have very different physical and toxicological characteristics. Studies done on crystalline silica do not apply to amorphous silica!

2) Inhalation and digestion involve very different tissues and organs. You cannot draw a conclusion about toxicity of AMORPHOUS SILICON DIOXIDE via ORAL CONSUMPTION based on a study where they analyze the toxicity of CRYSTALLINE SILICON DIOXIDE via INHALATION. The tissues/organs are different, the substances are different, the ways of exposure are different, the dosages are different. You simply do not understand how science works.

3) Toxicity is a function of dose and time. Glucose can be toxic. Water can be toxic. All substances in the universe are toxic at some point and duration!

4) We need orthosilicic acid. We need stomach acid to obtain orthosilicic acid from silicon dioxide. The bioavailability is low, though. But we need it in trace amounts anyway, and we need it for our health! I bet your lungs secrete HCl as you inhale crystalline silica. haha

5) Oral consumption of amorphous silicon dioxide could be a potential concern only if its particle size is on the lower range of nanometers and if it is at a high enough dosage. One recent study found that only particle size of 10 nm caused some inflammation in their study model, but particle size of 30 nm did not! See the study below. The size of amorphous silicon dioxide used as an additive in food and supplements is practically above 100 nm. Due to the nature of the production, there may be smaller particles but these would be in negligible amounts, totally irrelevant to the dosages used in toxicity studies. Read again my point 3 above. Moreover, the average particle size keeps changing at each step of digestion. We are not talking about lungs here. This is much more complicated than your brain could comprehend.

Oral intake of silica nanoparticles exacerbates intestinal inflammation

Nanoparticles, i.e., particles with a diameter of ≤100 nm regardless of their composing material, are added to various foods as moisturizers, coloring…

www.sciencedirect.com

6) Due to all the reasons listed above, amorphous silicon dioxide naturally found in food or added as a food-additive in food or supplements in the current dosages is currently not associated with any health risk.

This is not a scientific evidence but I will still share my anecdotal experience. I have been ingesting 240 mg of silica (amorphous silicon dioxide) from a bamboo extract daily for the past 5 years or so, and I'm still very healthy with better-looking skin and hair and with no intestinal inflammation. 240 mg is an order of magnitude higher than what you'd get from a regular diet, and several orders of magnitude higher than what is available in supplements as an anti-caking agent.

When I first registered on this forum, I remember that you were (maybe still) selling Kuinone in a transparent plastic bottle and some people were complaining about change in color of the liquid due to photo-degradation (menatetrenone is photolabile!). LOL. Instead of being concerned about silicon dioxide, people should worry about photo-degradation of the active ingredient and the contaminants leaching out of the plastic in the dirty/cheap solvents you use in your products. There is a legal reason why you write 'for external use' on your products. But people here use them even for oral consumption. Unbelievable. Also, see the study below regarding photoinstability and phototoxicity of MK-4 when applied to the skin. This is another major concern.

Prodrugs for Skin Delivery of Menahydroquinone-4, an Active Form of Vitamin K2(20), Could Overcome the Photoinstability and Phototoxicity of Vitamin K2(20)

The effective delivery of menahydroquinone-4 (MKH), an active form of menaquinone-4 (MK-4, vitamin K[2(20)] ), to the skin is beneficial in the treatment of various skin pathologies. However, its delivery through the application of MK-4 to the skin is ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There will always be fear-mongering charlatans who don't understand science. They will do this to promote their own products. Btw, if anyone is still concerned about microcrystalline cellulose or silicon dioxide, these do not dissolve in oil. So, when you make your own liquid (say from the product Life Extension - Mega K2), they will settle down at the bottom of the bottle (e.g. amber glass dropper bottle).

 

[Alex Wilkinson]

When you go to the beach you're probably going to accidentally ingest some sand.

 

[japanesedude]

Room temperature goes up to over 86℉ in Summer. Should I keep Kuinone in the fridge?