Wider Face

[AJC]

Perfect

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Interesting.

 

[Mastodonhugger]

@Mastodonhugger Yes I too would like an explanation of the DIFFERENCE between looking "down your brow" vs not doing that. From my understanding so far all the pics we've seen have been only of people looking down their brow.

lol that's because I have been looking at pictures of attractive people which mostly seem to have this characteristic. Hear are some pictures that I would deem average lookin. Hopefully you will see the difference in how they hold there heads.

I particularly like the following example because it portrays my point exactly.

This man is relatively average looking even though he has a strong jaw/chin and rugged facial features.

Now look at Mark Walberg who has a less strong chin and jaw and even lower cheek bones.

Mark Walberg is clearly the better looking man and notice how he orients his eyes. I think that mark Walberg is an extreme example because he holds this face literally all the time! It was incredibly hard to find a picture where he was just neutral, so I settled for these two. However the point still stands, the average looking person tilts there head slightly up while the above average looking person looks strait ahead.

Now here is my best attempt at coming up with someone that is good looking, and doesn't look strait ahead but tilts there head up slightly.

Channing Tatum at least from pictures I have observed likes to hold his head up.

but he still however does manage to have strong eye brows, and I theorize that even though he tilts his head up, because he looks strait ahead that it is enough to maintain his good looks. He really doesn't tilt his head that much. Its really just barely and it could be because he is on camera that he tilts his head to make his jaw appear more forward. He still looks down his brow though.

Just do me a favor and look up pictures of good looking men and see how many aren't doing this. I think the observation is reasonable and obvious.

 

[Mastodonhugger]

Thanks couldn't have done it better!

 

[Mastodonhugger]

Tom cruise has asymmetry in his face and strange teeth alignment, but overall his face is still very attractive, particularly from the front which is where it counts in Hollywood movies. That black and white picture is great not because he is looking down his brow, but because he has rugged facial structure especially along his jawline, has nice plump dark lips, had piercing eyes with a rugged amount of facial hair and really great hair. He has a similar look to Brad Pitt, and it has nothing to do with his gaze and brow. His asymmetrical nose is probably his worst feature, but it isn't too big which is what turns most people off. He has a great face for reaction shots and close ups, not too mention the charisma of a million watt light bulb and is known in the industry for his awesome work ethic and friendliness towards everyone on set.

What you are saying about "looking down the brow" as an important characteristic just seems silly and trivial. That is a typical look, the head facing forward slightly tilted downward, it is a serious look and displays ambition and confidence. There are countless of examples of successful models and movie stars and politicians NOT DOING THIS.

Of course there are exceptions but look up pictures of attractive men and see how many don't look strait ahead. Also there are plenty of models that aren't drop dead gorgeous, they just represent a look that works for whatever they are modeling. Same goes for movie stars they just represent whatever character they are supposed to play. As for politicians, have you seen how ugly some of them are? Sure you could argue that people like JFK and Che Guevara benefited from good looks but its not a requirement.

If we are look at this observationally than we would notice that the vast majority of good looking people orient their head in a slightly down ward tilted fission. Its not just that they look ahead in a "fierce" way, they look ahead with their brow lower than most people.

 

[Blossom]

Here is the picture

I think you look perfectly fine but I realize it doesn't really matter what some random stranger on the internet thinks!

I have taken vitamin k and it seemed to help my bones and in particular I noticed I no longer needed to wear my retainer. The effect on my facial bone structure was very subtle and no one noticed but me.


I think you might feel more pleased with your appearance just by getting a hair cut with bangs/fringe or layers that frame your face: Long straight hair that parts in the middle just elongates the appearance of the face so it's hard to pull off that look unless the person naturally has a more rounded face. You could google hairstyles for long narrow faces to get some ideas of what you would like.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I particularly like the following example because it portrays my point exactly.

This man is relatively average looking even though he has a strong jaw/chin and rugged facial features.

Thats a facial morph of two hollywood hearthrobs. Loki from thor and that guy from supernatural.

 

[Travis]

Thats a facial morph of two hollywood hearthrobs. Loki from thor and that guy from supernatural.

Wait. Did you just call a man― Excuse me . . . did you just call two men 'hearthrobs?'

Besides obviously missing a letter 't' and a hyphen, that is a rather unbecoming way for one man to refer to another man—if I would say so myself.

 

[Mastodonhugger]

Wait. Did you just call a man― Excuse me . . . did you just call two men 'hearthrobs?'

Besides obviously missing a letter 't' and a hyphen, that is a rather unbecoming way for one man to refer to another man—if I would say so myself.

LMAO!

 

[Mastodonhugger]

Thats a facial morph of two hollywood hearthrobs. Loki from thor and that guy from supernatural.

Interesting, I could tell something was off about that face. It looks really average to me. After looking at pictures of both men, I can see the appeal of both but neither of them strike me as "heart throb" worthy. Maybe slightly above average, and even more above average for the other. If I were to walk down the street neither one would catch my eye. I think that its probably their personalities that make them attractive. I am trying to stay away from that though and just talk about attractive faces.

I don't really like to use woman faces as examples because woman naturally have a higher rounder eye brow position which is a sign of femininity. They also have long hair so I cant line up the eyes with the ears either. Also men are much more diverse in what they find attractive. They can like women that are short or tall, or whatever. However hear are two pictures that I hope will further illustrate so we aren't having to deem as strait men whether this man or that man is attractive lol.

The women above are as similar as can be when it comes to everything but the eyes. Facial width/height similar, jaw definition, and cheek bone positions, are all very similar. Both are attractive, but which one is more attractive? I know your going to say that the one on bottom is paler than the other or its makeup (another reason female faces are hard to observe, they can fake it), but just be honest.

Its clearly the relation to the brow. Its not a matter of more or less bone, or the strength of the jaw/chin (not as important in woman), or the cheek bones although those are important. Its a matter of the relationship between the eyes and the brow, this is the defining difference in this example. I think this is the missing link that many people who believe in orthotropics are overlooking.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Wait. Did you just call a man― Excuse me . . . did you just call two men 'hearthrobs?'

Besides obviously missing a letter 't' and a hyphen, that is a rather unbecoming way for one man to refer to another man—if I would say so myself.

Strange things can happen when you're secure with your masculinity

The women above are as similar as can be when it comes to everything but the eyes. Facial width/height similar, jaw definition, and cheek bone positions, are all very similar. Both are attractive, but which one is more attractive?

The top one is mote attractive. The bottom one has a bulbous nose and buggy eyes and over plucked eyebrows

They don't look alike other than being vaguely middle eastern (pakistan?) which I now assume you are.

 

[AJC]

So as a practical tip for people, it seems like saying "tilt your head slightly down" would be a good practical way of accomplishing this. Kinda like saying "push the ceiling up with the top of your head". "Look straight ahead" seems more difficult to feel when you're doing it or not.

 

[Mastodonhugger]

So as a practical tip for people, it seems like saying "tilt your head slightly down" would be a good practical way of accomplishing this. Kinda like saying "push the ceiling up with the top of your head". "Look straight ahead" seems more difficult to feel when you're doing it or not.

I have always been a better looking guy, even though I had braces and a recessed chin, my brother who always had better forward development than be was always considered less attractive. Orthotropics is supposed to make you more attractive but I discovered that when I was doing it I actually was becoming less attractive in the process even though I had strait teeth no retainers required and a much more defined jaw and higher cheek bones.

So I started looking at faces trying to figure out what exactly made them more attractive, and I noticed that good looking people always tilt their head further down than others. This made sense to me why I was becoming less attractive now, when I would practice good posture I would pick my head up but tilt it up in the process likely to open my airway. so I started "looking down my brow" like I used to, and literally over the next few weeks I had become better looking.

If we believe that bones are moldable and will shift under gravity, then my theory makes sense. Just by tilting your head a little down, the effects of gravity will mold your maxilla in a much more attractive fashion and get rid of bag eyes. I'm not just talking about moving the maxilla forward which as long as you keep you mouth closed will eventually happen. I'm talking about changing the pressures in your face and molding the maxilla.

 

[Prosper]

@Mastodonhugger When you keep your head in your described position, do your molars kind of "bite forward"? And when you tilt your head up, do they bite more upward/backward? This could explain why your results with Orthotropics have been so dependent on your head tilt.

During my own journey of self-correcting postural issues it became clear that biting forwards seems to allow the whole spine to relax and fall into proper posture from lordosis, whereas biting backwards encourages the related musculature to pull the spine INTO lordosis. Additionally, I have noticed that whereas individuals with recessed "mouthbreather" features are nearly always lordotic, those with swayback posture (= the functional opposite of lordosis) usually have decent facial features. So it's likely that lordotic individuals are mainly backward biters and swayback individuals mainly forward biters.

Well this was not really that relevant to what you're saying, but nevertheless an interesting observation because it seems to be indirectly tied to it.

 

[AJC]

I have always been a better looking guy, even though I had braces and a recessed chin, my brother who always had better forward development than be was always considered less attractive. Orthotropics is supposed to make you more attractive but I discovered that when I was doing it I actually was becoming less attractive in the process even though I had strait teeth no retainers required and a much more defined jaw and higher cheek bones.

So I started looking at faces trying to figure out what exactly made them more attractive, and I noticed that good looking people always tilt their head further down than others. This made sense to me why I was becoming less attractive now, when I would practice good posture I would pick my head up but tilt it up in the process likely to open my airway. so I started "looking down my brow" like I used to, and literally over the next few weeks I had become better looking.

If we believe that bones are moldable and will shift under gravity, then my theory makes sense. Just by tilting your head a little down, the effects of gravity will mold your maxilla in a much more attractive fashion and get rid of bag eyes. I'm not just talking about moving the maxilla forward which as long as you keep you mouth closed will eventually happen. I'm talking about changing the pressures in your face and molding the maxilla.

My limited understanding of the orthotropic process is that the upward-tilting head is actually a compensation for a partially blocked airway due to a "too small mouth" (for back of better term atm), and that the reason most people don't tilt their head down a bit more in general is just because it causes their airway to be blocked.

If this is correct though, it doesn't make sense to me why as your mouth was expanding under orthotropic treatment that you actually started tilting your head up more than before rather than less.

@Prosper --related to your pic above, I do notice that when I lift my head up--but focusing on lifting it up from the back part of the vertex so the back of my neck elongates (this is the same process as "tilting my face down so I'm looking down my brow") that I feel a relaxation and openness in my low back, even if I'm sitting down.

 

[Prosper]

@AJC Yeah definitely. Doing so should also engage the torso in a way that makes the stomach stick out less, which is a common characteristic of the lordotic posture.

 

[Mastodonhugger]

@Mastodonhugger When you keep your head in your described position, do your molars kind of "bite forward"? And when you tilt your head up, do they bite more upward/backward? This could explain why your results with Orthotropics have been so dependent on your head tilt.

During my own journey of self-correcting postural issues it became clear that biting forwards seems to allow the whole spine to relax and fall into proper posture from lordosis, whereas biting backwards encourages the related musculature to pull the spine INTO lordosis. Additionally, I have noticed that whereas individuals with recessed "mouthbreather" features are nearly always lordotic, those with swayback posture (= the functional opposite of lordosis) usually have decent facial features. So it's likely that lordotic individuals are mainly backward biters and swayback individuals mainly forward biters.

Well this was not really that relevant to what you're saying, but nevertheless an interesting observation because it seems to be indirectly tied to it.

View attachment 7377

Yes my molars line up more forward when I do this and more backward when I tilt my head up.

I can see what your saying. I have always been someone with terrible posture! My head would be forward, as well as my shoulders and my hips would be rotated back in a pelvic tilt type fashion. As a result my mouth would hang open. However when my posture is corrected, my mouth naturally sits closed. One thing though is that when I would do this I would get a double chin and my airway would get blocked lol. So, to compensate I would tilt my head up. This was making me less attractive my scull molded to this form and my eyes lost that definition that they use to have even though my forward development was much better.

So essentially I used to be fairly decent looking but had terrible posture and crooked teeth, and them I fixed my posture and became less good looking because I was tilting my head up.

I had this look... (even though I'm white lol)

This guys name is Gary Clark jr. and he has very bad posture but still managed to be attractive. I basically looked like this guy bone developmentally.

Now I have my head directly above my spine but also look strait ahead so I am even better looking than before. All I am trying to say is that tilting your head up makes you less attractive and tilting your head more in makes you more. Better posture will make you more attractive, and keeping your mouth closed and tongue on the roof will make you more attractive as well. All three together will make you male model worthy.

 

[Prosper]

I deefinitely agree with the general direction of what you're saying, but I have to say that it seems peculiar how you can notice such changes in mere weeks. I've been doing this for almost two years and have very little to show in terms of results. My zygos and palate have widened some and cheeks gained slight definition, but not to an extent that would be obvious in pics. I've been experimenting with both relaxed mewing and forceful mewing, seems to make no difference. Often it feels like the progress I make during the day will be gone by the next morning, especially in regards to the upper dental arch which will revert back to a narrower structure overnight. Perhaps there is some missing factor, who knows.

 

[Mastodonhugger]

I deefinitely agree with the general direction of what you're saying, but I have to say that it seems peculiar how you can notice such changes in mere weeks. I've been doing this for almost two years and have very little to show in terms of results. My zygos and palate have widened some and cheeks gained slight definition, but not to an extent that would be obvious in pics. I've been experimenting with both relaxed mewing and forceful mewing, seems to make no difference. Often it feels like the progress I make during the day will be gone by the next morning, especially in regards to the upper dental arch which will revert back to a narrower structure overnight. Perhaps there is some missing factor, who knows.

Interesting, I think there is such a thing as bone memory. Like because I used to have this posture with my eyes down like that, my bones knew what to do. For instance, my chin used to be not terribly recessed but not strong either. When I would have a stuffy nose almost overnight my chin would go back noticeably, at least for me.

I have also noticed the shrinking of the pallet overnight as well. Making sure the mouth is closed at night is very important. I have heard of taping your mouth shut but I have never tried it.

The one thing that has changed the most in me is my cheek bones! Literally within my first month of mewing my cheek bones seemed like they just emerged from my face.

I will say this, the mouth should just naturally sit closed. If you have to clench it closed then you are doing something wrong. When I adopted good posture, my mouth just sat closed without thinking of it, and my tongue with some practice followed suit. When you try "force mewing" I think that it requires to much effort, and your not going to be able to hold that all day. You have to make it subconscious.

Male sure to let me know if you figure something out, of you don't mind. Or if you have any advice.

 

[BrianF]

Here is the picture

You're shape of face is similar to mine, but more feminine obviously. Naturally as a male I have a longer and wider face. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your face; quite simply you have a good face.

I recommend reading Psychocybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. Not because I think you should do the mental exercises in the book (hey, you might want to and I wouldn't think you would be wasting your time either) but because he points out that people often have a very exaggerated negative view of themselves and gives some great case studies of people he has helped.

Confidence is everything. If you look like me you ain't doing to badly at all. (oh did I say that already) Confidence is everything and is actually one of the few things where you can fake it till you make it. Really concentrate on your posture and make sure you stand tall. This is key, you need to really work on it or in a few week time you will go back to your old ways. Leave a post it note on your door before you leave the house every morning, if you have to.