I'm Just Losing Faith And Need Some Help

[Momentum]

[QUOTE="
The problem is when I have strong nausea, no food looks appetizing or tasty to me, even most delicious, luscious and mouth watering dishes.
It just gets hard to swallow.

I feel particularly bad and sick after ingesting microcrystaline cellulose, or I guess worse, silicon dioxide.

[/QUOTE]

It was the microcrystaline cellulose that clued me in to my mast cell issue. When I have it (and a few other things) my appetite stops, then I get a burning in my gut, then my entire intestines become inflammed and on fire, with lots of noise. This has also happened with cheap CBD (I'm guessing from solvents). It has also happened with from just smelling chemicals. The way I figured it out was because the first time it happened - the central burning - everyone kept saying it was heart burn. But it was too low. Anyway, I took Tums and it got worse, but then I took Zantac and it got better. I didn't know what it was, but the Zantac always worked. After researching I found out that Zantac is an H2 inhibitor, Aha! This last summer when I started LDN it contained mcc. The first day I woke up a bit dizzy, the next day more dizzy, after a week I thought I was getting appendicitis. I was in horrific pain, and my brain was inflammed. Thank God someone on the LDN group posted about their experience with MCC and I stopped immediately.
I have taken sups with MCC all my adult life with very little issue, but with LDN it was horrific. And not that uncommon with LDN and natural thyroid meds. Pharmacists and docs believe that's impossible :-(

Just saying you might want to try an H2 inhibitor like Pepsid, etc. We can't get Zantac over here anymore because a batch was contaminated, but people can still get the active ingredient by prescription; rinitidine (?). It works the best. Maybe give it a try. I know it's a bandaid, but if you can feel better while you figure the rest out......

 

[Mhtro]

I am reading up on the book called "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" and it explains digestion and how digestion can be messed up by diseases etc.
Honestly the book is worth a read, it might answer some questions you have about digestion and you could follow their diet and see if you see results.

 

[redsun]

Don't mean to overwhelm you but you could also try casein powder and milk powder as a way to get nutrients and protein in your system so that serotonin can go down. Nathan Hatch mentioned that casein changed his life. Also aspirin might lower stress and stimulate appetite. B12 (in oysters) can counteract nitric oxide and the zinc can raise appetite.

Has @redsun seen this thread? He usually posts in threads like these recommending certain organ meats and B-vits to increase protein reserves, stomach acid, and lower 5ht, and people often say it works.

I have and actually made a reply but never sent it so I'll guess Ill send it now.

It won't work, I'm very sensitive to bad food, even dairy is troublesome.

And I'm basically forcing myself to eat, that's not pleasant thing.

Stop taking all supplements. Stop thinking you need this vitamin or that mineral because you clearly do not. All these supplements probably worsened your appetite even more. All these digestive problems would 100% go away and allow you to feel an inkling of relief on zero fiber carnivore-esque way of eating with honey, eggs, plenty of good tasting meat and some juices for carbs that you can handle.

In my opinion, based on the things the issues you have, you have no business taking anything at all. Depending on how bad your condition is, even vitamins can act more like poisons than beneficial substances, especially with the high dose vitamins and minerals you take. And B1 in higher doses than everything else? That is asking for pain.

Other issue is depending on the person, B vitamins can feel like a life saver, or be the bane of your existence and you would never even realize it. B complex increases methylation substantially and can be using up certain vital minerals and electrolytes which you need for digestion. This can be increasing adrenaline directly and constantly and over time in the long term you get stuck with much higher adrenaline if you aren't careful. Adrenaline can kill your appetite as it is a survival hormone that puts digestion on the backburner so to speak. But low temp and low pulse would not indicate to me your adrenaline is high, but Im no expert in this.

If you do have this issue, generally it would be good to just take some B3 which will reduce methylation and adrenaline to some degree but I am hesistant to even recommend you that because of how much crap you already have been taking. B3 can be eaten alive by the other Bs especially if you are taking super high doses of B1. Bad news generally and tbh no one really knows for sure what high doses of one vitamin can do to the others.

Just stopping all the vitamins and supplements in general should reduce methylation. Thats the first thing you should do, stop everything and give it time and see if things improve. Don't even bother changing the diet taking all these things, stop them and wait a few weeks. Long lasting improvement demands an easy to digest diet high in protein and raw materials such as cholesterol and fat with zero-fiber carb sources to satiety. Stop pressuring the gut, and it will fix itself.

 

[Jacob28]

OK, but honey contains lots of fructose. Fructose gives me terrible gas and intestinal pain.

I like the concept of residue-free diet, but still I' m afraid it would be low in potassium, for instance.
And I don't tolerate too well high amount of liquid, which would be neccessary for getting carbs. I just get symptoms of electrolyte depletion, despite adding salt.

Anyway, I will eliminate all microcrystaline cellulose and silica and all those nasty fillers.
I will also severly reduce vitamin B1 dose

 

[Ihor]

@Jacob28 you can not able to digest all types of proteins end get endotoxin for this reason, if this true then it will be first main reason for what you don't have appetite, have ammonia which high levels is extremely toxic, bad unbalanced neurotransmitters, brain fog, toxic proteolitic bacteria. So at first you need to do simple test for youself this experiment, you only need two or three days, try to eat without fiber and starch and other nutriens which are not complitly digests, only foods that should completely digests by human digestive system such as protein, fat, sugar, juices, milk (even if you don't tolerate them well) and there is no fiber, starch or those products that are not completely digested and the remaining parts of which, you will still go to the toilet. If with such diet you still have hard stools, then this is not completely digested protein, because no other nutrient which will give solid stool.
Or another option, you can take an feces analysis called a coprogram, which other members mentioned here, in which you get the enzymatic activity of pancreatic enzymes, bile salts.

 

[redsun]

OK, but honey contains lots of fructose. Fructose gives me terrible gas and intestinal pain.

Have you tried honey directly? If you havent tried raw honey directly you cant say it gives you problems.

I like the concept of residue-free diet, but still I' m afraid it would be low in potassium, for instance.

The body conserves potassium strongly. Ironically, B1 and B vitamins in general can deplete potassium levels. Your very high dose B1 probably has strongly depleted potassium levels and maybe even screwed up your electrolytes in general. You need electrolytes like potassium for gastric juice, without them you can forget about digesting anything properly. B vitamins can also deplete zinc which you also need for digestion. Depleted zinc = rip your digestion.

And potassium intake doesn't affect potassium as much, hormones control potassium levels, same goes for sodium. You will never in a million years suffer hypokalemia eating a wide variety of diets. You can easily get hypokalemia from supplements however. The diet I suggested to you isnt even low in potassium.

If you like the concept I assure you'll like the diet when it is actually put into practice. Don't reduce B1 intake... stop it completely. You are saturated with b-vitamins at this point I 100% guarantee it. Your "electrolyte depletion" symptoms are probably caused by the supplements you are taking, especially B1 can do this, making you extremely sensitive to liquid intake. Adding salt wouldn't work obviously because B1 depletes potassium. The massive amount of magnesium you take is senseless.

 

[mangoes]

Also, have you considered the possibility of a motility disorder? Low appetite, feeling of food being stuck or just sitting in the stomach, gurgling/borborygmi, it could be. Is your swallow ok?

do you vomit at all? have you had an endoscopy or colonoscopy or mri/ct done? (Maybe you answered this already but I cba to read through all 5 pages lol)

 

[Jacob28]

Your electrolyte depletion" symptoms are probably caused by the supplements you are taking, especially B1 can do this, making you extremely sensitive to liquid intake. Adding salt wouldn't work obviously because B1 depletes potassium. The massive amount of magnesium you take is senseless.

As to liquid intake, I don't think that B1 can do that. I had this problem for a quite longer time, when I was a child I was sometimes thirsty, but coudn't quench it, often on hot, humid, muggy weather, despite drinking lots of water( which seems counterproductive now).
Often I got this thirst was combined with lack of appetite.
And often couldn't sleep.

And why I got those nasty and painful wounds behind ears, I even got scars.
I always had dry skin, on hands, arms, legs, these are signs of some vitamin and mineral deficiencies...

And yes, I've tried honey, raw and heated, gave me flatulence and stomach(gut) pain,
I got the same type of reaction to sucrose, or every sugar containing fructose.

 

[Momentum]

@redsun
I hope you will reconsider B1 supplementation. Have you read Lonsdale and Marrs recent book on the subject? "Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition" explores thiamine and how its deficiency affects the functions of the brainstem and autonomic nervous system by way of metabolic changes at the level of the mitochondria. Thiamine deficiency derails mitochondrial oxidative metabolism and gives rise to the classic disease of beriberi that, in its early stages, can be considered the prototype for a set of disorders that we now recognize as dysautonomia. This book represents the life's work of the senior author, Dr. Derrick Lonsdale, and a recent collaboration with his co-author Dr. Chandler Marrs.

I have started high dose thiamine and it is helping some of my many complex symptoms. Several friends have started also and see improvement. It does have to be done along with a B complex, taken separately. I believe I read Haidut even takes 2,000-3,000mg of B1 per day.





I've long suspected that many of our "diseases" are simply nutrient deficiencies. But since modern medicine, especially in the West doesn't believe we can be deficient, and labwork is notoriously inaccurate (note how many people in the video's had 'normal' B1 levels, and yet improved dramatically) they label horrific symptoms as a diseases rather than looking at nutrients. With our deplete soils, which leads to deplete foods, and nutrient antagonist in our food and environment, and poor digestion - we are all certainly somewhat if not significantly deficient.

 

[thomas00]

And why I got those nasty and painful wounds behind ears, I even got scars.
I always had dry skin, on hands, arms, legs, these are signs of some vitamin and mineral deficiencies...

Has a GP or dermatologist ruled out fungal infection?

 

[Barry]

How can I get that damn appetite back.

Liquid diet, orange juice, small amount of milk for some protein, but as much fruit juice as possible.

 

[redsun]

@redsun
I hope you will reconsider B1 supplementation. Have you read Lonsdale and Marrs recent book on the subject? "Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition" explores thiamine and how its deficiency affects the functions of the brainstem and autonomic nervous system by way of metabolic changes at the level of the mitochondria. Thiamine deficiency derails mitochondrial oxidative metabolism and gives rise to the classic disease of beriberi that, in its early stages, can be considered the prototype for a set of disorders that we now recognize as dysautonomia. This book represents the life's work of the senior author, Dr. Derrick Lonsdale, and a recent collaboration with his co-author Dr. Chandler Marrs.

I have started high dose thiamine and it is helping some of my many complex symptoms. Several friends have started also and see improvement. It does have to be done along with a B complex, taken separately. I believe I read Haidut even takes 2,000-3,000mg of B1 per day.

I've long suspected that many of our "diseases" are simply nutrient deficiencies. But since modern medicine, especially in the West doesn't believe we can be deficient, and labwork is notoriously inaccurate (note how many people in the video's had 'normal' B1 levels, and yet improved dramatically) they label horrific symptoms as a diseases rather than looking at nutrients. With our deplete soils, which leads to deplete foods, and nutrient antagonist in our food and environment, and poor digestion - we are all certainly somewhat if not significantly deficient.

I am not automatically against B1 supplementation, I have taken some myself. Major thing that happens once B1 levels in the body are normal and you keep doing insanely high doses is you get very high acetylcholine levels which has many benefits to the brain and memory and cognitive function, but also can cause a lot problems as well.

There are countless people who have tons of energy everyday and get along with their lives completely fine and most never hit 2mg of B1 intake from food, myself included. I took it for nootropic effects and never noticed much else. B1 is less than 1% of the story. There is no sense in massive amounts of B1 over other particular vitamins for long stretches of time. It can be beneficial in the short term of course. B1 can be fixing nervous system issues simply by restoring low acetylcholine levels which would be a very good reason to take it.

Pretty sure haidut takes those large B1 doses along with other nutrients to prepare for drinking alcohol or something like that. He does not do massive doses like that constantly.

 

[Vinny]

Jacob, imho, stopping ALL supplements for a couple of weeks might, fingers crossed, give a new idea about what's going on with your body. There is a good chance for that.

 

[Momentum]

I am not automatically against B1 supplementation, I have taken some myself. Major thing that happens once B1 levels in the body are normal and you keep doing insanely high doses is you get very high acetylcholine levels which has many benefits to the brain and memory and cognitive function, but also can cause a lot problems as well.

There are countless people who have tons of energy everyday and get along with their lives completely fine and most never hit 2mg of B1 intake from food, myself included. I took it for nootropic effects and never noticed much else. B1 is less than 1% of the story. There is no sense in massive amounts of B1 over other particular vitamins for long stretches of time. It can be beneficial in the short term of course. B1 can be fixing nervous system issues simply by restoring low acetylcholine levels which would be a very good reason to take it.

Pretty sure haidut takes those large B1 doses along with other nutrients to prepare for drinking alcohol or something like that. He does not do massive doses like that constantly.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. From my short time on this forum it would appear that the audience is wide; from those who have always been healthy and wanting to maximize health, some maybe dealing with a singular issue like hairloss or low T, to those who are quit ill. I fall into the last catagory, and Jacob has stated he has felt very sick for the last 5 years. I believe his supplementation, at least in high doses is recent.

I don't want to hijack Jacob's thread, but I do appreciate your input regarding acetylcholine and mega dosing any nutrient for that matter. Acetycholine, IIRC, is also necessary for sleep and most chronically ill people suffer from insomnia. I wonder how much this (low B1/acetylcholine) contributes? We also suffer from great cognitive/memory function, again the B1 makes sense.

For those who are chronically ill, it makes sense, to me, to mega dose B1 (and most likely carefully others, and to work toward balance) for at least 3 months unless you are feeling worse. Although Dr Lonsdale does see that sometimes people get a bit sicker before they get better. (I believe this is from the mcc he has in his brand of B1 - alli and poly-thianine). It isn't rare for those patients to continue to improve over a year at 2,000mg. I have been on B1 benfotiamine for several weeks now, today was my first dose at 2,100mg and I am slowly improving. I will continue, while I also take other nutrients, and continue to research. I am no stranger to mega dosing, and rarely do I see improvement, but once in a while I do. B1 makes sense.

I think one important thing to question is FOUNDATIONALLY why are some of us so much sicker than others? (Ruling out the very obvious things). Jacob is very young to be this ill. I was always tired as a child, started getting migraines at puberty, and it just cascaded from there, I diagnosed with candida, heavy metals, CFS/Fibro/ME, then MS, then MCS, Sjorgren's, Hashi's, adrenal fatigue, and then Lyme and co-infections. I have been extremely ill and close to death many times and doctors just shake their heads or worse. I've spent years (over a decade) researching no less than 40-70 hours a week and trying everything I knew to try. (And sometimes, life just sucked so bad I didn't feel like trying.) And there has been a few times, where I have felt great.
Lately, back in research mode, I am so humbled by the amount of health information out there. But for every one that says "Do A" there is someone who says, "No, do B". Gawd, I used to hate doctors. I still do, kind of. The arrogant ones. But damn, how many times has one doctors said, "We can only do xxxx" and you see another doctor and they have a completely different response? Even they can't agree. Now, I feel sorry for the humble ones. There is no way they can even know a small fraction of what they need to know. And yet many dismiss their patients' knowledge.

Nutrients are foundational, but until we have accurate ways to measure these things, all we can do is experiment. And some of us just flat out either don't digest them, or can't seem to use them.

For me, much of this seems to boiling down to Ehler's Danlos syndrome which I hadn't even heard of 3 months ago. This explains so much for me. For Jacob, IDK? But I know that he is very sick and has been for a very long time. There is something foundational there. In the meantime, he needs to do something just so he can get through the day. It may or may not be thiamine.

I'm sure Jacob and I both would appreciate any other information regarding the side effects of high dose B1.
Thank you

 

[ReSTART]

You should probably get a sleep study.

 

[Kelj]

and @Jacob28

Personally I found Doctors Data comprehensive stool test to be valuable. Mainly to exclude the possibility of a parasite after having been exposed to one. But it turned up some other valuable information too, that being low elastase, pinpointing pancreas issues which cause gallbladder issues and impaired bile flow, hence the, constipation, gastritis, nausea, and lack of appetite, etc. Here's the phone number of Doctor's Data UK location 0871.218.0052 UK. Here's a link to the test I got Comprehensive Stool Analysis.

@Kelj I understand your point that it's imperative to get in those calories. Do you have any suggestions on how to get past nausea and subsequent vomiting? @Jacob28 has expressed this issue; I also have this problem. It just takes one single bite too much and the vomiting starts. So it's like one step forward and two steps back because taking that extra bite is what is needed to meet your calorie goals, and yet that extra bite could result in vomiting in which case you loose most of your meal anyway and scorch your esophagus in the process. Personally I have found self talk to be at least a little helpful, saying to myself "food goes down, stays down" but not enough to get me to 3000 calories, and trying to be relaxed at meals. Eating frequently helps too, like a few bites of high calorie food every half hour or so, but is not really feasible on work days.

I understand work days make smaller, more frequent meals difficult. That is the answer to the gastroparesis you are experiencing. The low energy causes the body to slow the transit of your food to extract as much as possible from it. There is definitely a period of transition where you don't feel like eating as much as you need to. You are doing the right things. Just persist with it. It will turn around. Talk to yourself positively about food. Eat small amounts more frequently. Can you have a highly caloric shake at hand, maybe?

 

[Zpol]

I'm sure Jacob and I both would appreciate any other information regarding the side effects of high dose B1.

So true, foundation is key. Supplementation can be helpful for some but not a cure.
I have found benefit in B1 supplements. The only side effect I can think of is a sulfur smell after a while. I had been taking 300mg of benfo 2x per day but now I take 50 mg of Allithiamine with meals 2 to 4x per day. I was having peripheral nephropathy and frequent urination issues.

Can you have a highly caloric shake at hand, maybe?

That's a good idea. Surf Sweets gummy bears and Wild Zora Lamb snacks are good to have around. Just have to remember to keep them well stocked at work. It truly does make a difference. Looking back over the last few months, each time I had a major flare up of digestive issues was after a day or two of not meeting my calorie goals, and ironically that made the nausea and vomiting worse.

 

[teds]

Wow so I’ve made it through this discussion...

Someone mentioned how bad the advice here was.. I’d agree.. @Kelj the exception. Don’t ignore your body.

what I haven’t seen (and I apologize if my eyes glazed over this at some point) is advice to get some psychological assistance. You’re clearly upset and troubled by this situation and I don’t blame you. What is the cause? It seems like there’s likely some trauma that you’re perhaps not addressing? Whether it’s an eating disorder ‘plain and simple’ or something more complicated, you probably need some professional help - and there’s nothing wrong with that. Obviously be judicious in who you are and be autonomous in your response to their advice. Best of luck.

 

[Jacob28]

My face after reading all thread once again ---> :?

There must be some kind of way outta here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief

 

[Vinny]

My face after reading all thread once again ---> :?

There must be some kind of way outta here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief

Lol