Why Are Bodybuilders Bald?

[Kunstruct]

Heavy Androgen abusers (Trenbolone, Winstrol, 1500 Test a week) Anti-Aromatase, you name it.
And they are not 18-19yr olds.



Roelly Winklaar age 42

Shawn Rhoden age 44

Nathan De Asha age 32

Flex Lewis age 35

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Vertex baldness, but not frontal baldness, is associated with an increased risk of CHD. The association with CHD depends on the severity of vertex baldness and also exists among younger men. Thus, vertex baldness might be more closely related to atherosclerosis than frontal baldness, but the association between male pattern baldness and CHD deserves further investigation.

Lipids in the skin are the most diverse in the entire human body. Their bioactivity in health and disease is underexplored. Prostaglandin D2 has recently been identified as a factor which is elevated in the bald scalp of men with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) and has the capacity to decrease hair lengthening. An enzyme which synthesizes it, prostaglandin D2 synthase (PTGDS or lipocalin‐PGDS), is hormone responsive in multiple other organs. PGD2 has two known receptors, GPR44 and PTGDR. GPR44 was found to be necessary for the decrease in hair growth by PGD2. This creates an exciting opportunity to perhaps create novel treatments for AGA, which inhibit the activity of PTGDS, PGD2 or GPR44. This review discusses the current knowledge surrounding PGD2, and future steps needed to translate these findings into novel therapies for patients with AGA.

Male pattern baldness can have substantial psychosocial effects, and it has been phenotypically linked to adverse health outcomes such as prostate cancer and cardiovascular disease. We explored the genetic architecture of the trait using data from over 52,000 male participants of UK Biobank, aged 40–69 years. We identified over 250 independent genetic loci associated with severe hair loss (P<5x10-8). By splitting the cohort into a discovery sample of 40,000 and target sample of 12,000, we developed a prediction algorithm based entirely on common genetic variants that discriminated (AUC = 0.78, sensitivity = 0.74, specificity = 0.69, PPV = 59%, NPV = 82%) those with no hair loss from those with severe hair loss. The results of this study might help identify those at greatest risk of hair loss, and also potential genetic targets for intervention.




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[Kunstruct]

Vertex baldness, but not frontal baldness, is associated with an increased risk of CHD. The association with CHD depends on the severity of vertex baldness and also exists among younger men. Thus, vertex baldness might be more closely related to atherosclerosis than frontal baldness, but the association between male pattern baldness and CHD deserves further investigation.

Lipids in the skin are the most diverse in the entire human body. Their bioactivity in health and disease is underexplored. Prostaglandin D2 has recently been identified as a factor which is elevated in the bald scalp of men with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) and has the capacity to decrease hair lengthening. An enzyme which synthesizes it, prostaglandin D2 synthase (PTGDS or lipocalin‐PGDS), is hormone responsive in multiple other organs. PGD2 has two known receptors, GPR44 and PTGDR. GPR44 was found to be necessary for the decrease in hair growth by PGD2. This creates an exciting opportunity to perhaps create novel treatments for AGA, which inhibit the activity of PTGDS, PGD2 or GPR44. This review discusses the current knowledge surrounding PGD2, and future steps needed to translate these findings into novel therapies for patients with AGA.

Male pattern baldness can have substantial psychosocial effects, and it has been phenotypically linked to adverse health outcomes such as prostate cancer and cardiovascular disease. We explored the genetic architecture of the trait using data from over 52,000 male participants of UK Biobank, aged 40–69 years. We identified over 250 independent genetic loci associated with severe hair loss (P<5x10-8). By splitting the cohort into a discovery sample of 40,000 and target sample of 12,000, we developed a prediction algorithm based entirely on common genetic variants that discriminated (AUC = 0.78, sensitivity = 0.74, specificity = 0.69, PPV = 59%, NPV = 82%) those with no hair loss from those with severe hair loss. The results of this study might help identify those at greatest risk of hair loss, and also potential genetic targets for intervention.




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uuuuuhhh

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Hang in there peeps,halp is surely coming:


Prostaglandin D2:

Cellular synthesis occurs through the arachidonic acid[lionoleic acid PUFA] cascade with the final conversion from PGH2 done by PGD2 synthase (PTGDS).
In the brain, production occurs via an alternative pathway through the soluble, secreted enzyme β-trace [6]

Effects:



PGD2 causes a contraction of the bronchial airways. Its concentration in asthma patients is 10 times higher than in control patients, especially after it is brought into contact with allergens.
It is involved in the regulation of reducing body temperature in sleep, and acts opposite to PGE2[citation needed].
It causes vasoconstriction[7]
Elevated levels of PGD2 and PGD2 synthase in scalp hair follicles may be partially responsible for male pattern baldness.[4]
PGD2 also plays a part in male sexual development. It forms a feedforward loop with Sox9, which is activated by the SRY of the Y chromosome. PGD2, in a different feedforward loop than FGF9, helps keep the level of SOX9 high enough to activate other genes, such as Fgf9 and Sf1, which are necessary for the development of the male reproductive system [8]
PGD2 plays a role in the attraction of neutrophils (chemotaxis).

Inhibitors:

In silico simulations have predicted the following as potential inhibitors of PGD2 synthase[9]:

Ricinoleic acid
Acteoside
Amentoflavone
Rutin
Hinokiflavone

Effects of Aspirin on Prostaglandin H2:

Aspirin has been hypothesized to block the conversion of arachidonic acid to Prostaglandin

 

[Tristan Loscha]

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[Kartoffel]

@Kartoffel
Purely out of curiosity, what do you consider to constitute excess protein?

More than is needed to maintain lean tissue mass. It depends on the person's metabolic rate and microbiome. A normal person, slightly hypothyroid and normal amount of activity, is likely to need no more than 60-70g of protein. For a person with high physical activity, 70-90g might be more appropriate. I don't see any scenario where significantly more than 100g can be healthy.

Many people like to look at Danny Roddy as an example of someone growing thier hair back but as far as I can see Danny didnt lose his hair becuase of a genetic predisposition to androgen sensitivity. I mean, with all due respect, Danny doesnt even seem to have much in the way of androgenic qualities, especially the qualities that are characteristic of many balding men. Danny most likely lost his hair becuase of his extreme dietary habits directly leading to a thyroid issue.

Is there any evidence that such a genetic predisposition to androgen "sensitivity" exists? To me it looks like this idea about androgen sensitivity was just invented once the evidence became overwhelming that the story about balding men having higher serum testosterone levels was wrong. Balding men have normal to subnormal testosterone levels, higher prolactin and estrogen, and significantly lower SHBG with higher free testosterone. The higher ratio of free testosterone to SHBG-bound testosterone might be the sensitivity that some people talk about, but that is hardly mainly genetic.
What are androgenic qualities for you? For me the androgenic phenotype looks like this: Full head of thick hair, lean, very little body hair, energetic, high sex drive, high body temperature. Most balding men and bodybuilders are the exact opposite of that.

 

[Runenight201]

@Kartoffel
Purely out of curiosity, what do you consider to constitute excess protein?

----------------------------------------------------

There definetly is a genetic component to hairloss.
For example, a 20 year old white male, lean, muscular, eats well, has no discernable diseases starts to lose his hair with no other symptoms whatsoever. Meanwhile, a 60 year old hispanic man with overt diabetes, previous history of cancer, a kidney transplant, multiple stents, eats terribly, doesnt sleep well and has been on pharma drugs for years, has a full head of hair. I have seen this scenerio and countless others similar to it many times.

This doesnt mean that genes are the final determining factor or the direct cause, just that they do play a role, atleast in the manifestations of disease and/ or responses to hormonal mileu.

Many people like to look at Danny Roddy as an example of someone growing thier hair back but as far as I can see Danny didnt lose his hair becuase of a genetic predisposition to androgen sensitivity. I mean, with all due respect, Danny doesnt even seem to have much in the way of androgenic qualities, especially the qualities that are characteristic of many balding men. Danny most likely lost his hair becuase of his extreme dietary habits directly leading to a thyroid issue.

With this in mind though, the principles that peat lays out still apply wether someone is losing thier hair or not and Danny's work overall is very valuable. Also, most hairloss drugs, as Danny has pointed out many times, are not worth it, and there are a variety of other things that can help to atleast stop/ slow down the hairloess i.e. progesterone, aspirin, thyroid, adequate carbs from safe sources, adequate protein, PUFA avoidance/ SAFA consumption etc. With this said, in my experience, the only way to really grow back lost hair is through some type of wounding procedure like needling (however this should probably only be attempted once everything else is under control).

The diets of a 20 year old white male and a 60 year old Hispanic male are drastically different. Most Hispanics who retain their culture will eat diets high in saturated fats, such as eggs, cheese, sour cream, red meat, etc... the 20 year old white male will dine at chipotle, Zaxbys, Arby’s and eat French fries and snack on potato chips. Or even worse when they decide to bodybuild and eat “clean”, will eat a diet of chicken, rice, veggies, and protein shakes. I’ve seen plenty of Hispanic men who choose to eat the American diet go bald. IN FACT, now that I think about it, I have two uncles, one who in Costa Rica and one in Colombia. Both have their hair. My dad, who immigrated to the US in the 80s, has typical MPB...

 

[redsun]

More than is needed to maintain lean tissue mass. It depends on the person's metabolic rate and microbiome. A normal person, slightly hypothyroid and normal amount of activity, is likely to need no more than 60-70g of protein. For a person with high physical activity, 70-90g might be more appropriate. I don't see any scenario where significantly more than 100g can be healthy.

Have you ever actually done any degree of resistance training like weightlifting? If you have you would not be saying that there is no reason to go above 100g. 100g should be minimum for the average sized male of average body fat who wants some natural lean mass. You cannot maintain a somewhat normal physique with such little protein unless you are incredibly short. I'd argue you cannot even maintain health as a man with protein that low.

And if we are talking about creating, then maintaining a very muscular physique, 130g minimum and 150g is the upper limit and almost no one will need more than that unless they are very tall and muscular. You are literally going to the opposite end of protein intake counter to hardcore steroid bodybuilders. 70g is good for a small women basically and you are saying 70-90g is good for high physical activity? I'd kill over in a few days with that little protein and all I do is weight training daily for about an hour.

What are androgenic qualities for you? For me the androgenic phenotype looks like this: Full head of thick hair, lean, very little body hair, energetic, high sex drive, high body temperature. Most balding men and bodybuilders are the exact opposite of that.

This is a typical high histamine male. Low histamine always leads to body hair growth, the lower, the more excessive the hair growth. Lots of body hair is a sign of low histamine and is unhealthy. I am firm believer that humans are not supposed to be very hairy, not even men. Certain ways of eating and lifestyle kill histamine and killing histamine increases noradrenaline/adrenaline(histamine antagonizes both). High histamine also shoots up the sex drive like nothing else, increases and maintains body heat and energy.

 

[Herbie]

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Do you understand how the PPARS work?

If rats were fed no pufa from birth for generations which has been done (ingested no arachidonic acid ever) they would all be bald and never would have grown any hair?

 

[Kunstruct]

High histamine also shoots up the sex drive like nothing else, increases and maintains body heat and energy.

Interesting but, high histamine doesn't cause PE?
Isn't high histamine going to cause issues like sneezing, itching, dermatitis, and many other?

 

[redsun]

Interesting but, high histamine doesn't cause PE?
Isn't high histamine going to cause issues like sneezing, itching, dermatitis, and many other?

Yes it can exacerbate PE or make it, depending on how high the histamine is. It strongly increases sexual urges. Histadelics can ejaculate multiple times a day and not experience the post-ejaculation effects barely if at all. High histamine also makes you more prone to these things like sneezing and allergies but it is not that simple as more histamine = more allergy type symptoms. Low histamine individuals actually are more prone to food sensitivies for example because of low stomach acid and likewise can get allergic reactions to chemicals more easily and reactions to the foods they eat.

Excessively high histamine creates its own problems, same as excessively low histamine. Ideally you want higher histamine but not too high. Allergies and sensitivities aren't the extent of histamine's effects on the brain and body though just to make it clear.

 

[milkboi]

Yes it can exacerbate PE or make it, depending on how high the histamine is. It strongly increases sexual urges. Histadelics can ejaculate multiple times a day and not experience the post-ejaculation effects barely if at all. High histamine also makes you more prone to these things like sneezing and allergies but it is not that simple as more histamine = more allergy type symptoms. Low histamine individuals actually are more prone to food sensitivies for example because of low stomach acid and likewise can get allergic reactions to chemicals more easily and reactions to the foods they eat.

Excessively high histamine creates its own problems, same as excessively low histamine. Ideally you want higher histamine but not too high. Allergies and sensitivities aren't the extent of histamine's effects on the brain and body though just to make it clear.

If you ever feel inspired about to make a post about histamine, and how low/high levels might effect a person, I'd love that.

 

[Kunstruct]

Yes it can exacerbate PE or make it, depending on how high the histamine is. It strongly increases sexual urges. Histadelics can ejaculate multiple times a day and not experience the post-ejaculation effects barely if at all. High histamine also makes you more prone to these things like sneezing and allergies but it is not that simple as more histamine = more allergy type symptoms. Low histamine individuals actually are more prone to food sensitivies for example because of low stomach acid and likewise can get allergic reactions to chemicals more easily and reactions to the foods they eat.

Excessively high histamine creates its own problems, same as excessively low histamine. Ideally you want higher histamine but not too high. Allergies and sensitivities aren't the extent of histamine's effects on the brain and body though just to make it clear.

Very interesting.
I know at some point some guys were taking a histaminic drug to get better libido but complained about getting PE. Not sure if wasn't Ritalin.

 

[redsun]

Very interesting.
I know at some point some guys were taking a histaminic drug to get better libido but complained about getting PE. Not sure if wasn't Ritalin.

I think artificially raising histamine with drugs will be worse then the natural raising of histamine by other means which would be slower. The histamine receptors in low histamine individuals are very sensitive, so suddenly raising it will probably create PE because the receptors are already so sensitive because there is so little histamine to go around. Maybe it was betahistine or syrian rue.

If you ever feel inspired about to make a post about histamine, and how low/high levels might effect a person, I'd love that.

I do plan one of these days to create a thread about it as I experiment some things myself but as for information, there is a lot of info online about low histamine and high histamine. Googling histapenia and histadelia is a good start if you are interested. You can also google images for those terms as well and the provide symptoms and what not.

Blog of a guy from hackstasis, has quite a few blog posts about histamine and other interesting stuff:
Area-1255

 

[Kartoffel]

This is a typical high histamine male. Low histamine always leads to body hair growth, the lower, the more excessive the hair growth. Lots of body hair is a sign of low histamine and is unhealthy. I am firm believer that humans are not supposed to be very hairy, not even men. Certain ways of eating and lifestyle kill histamine and killing histamine increases noradrenaline/adrenaline(histamine antagonizes both). High histamine also shoots up the sex drive like nothing else, increases and maintains body heat and energy.

I think what you are saying is nonsense without any scientific basis. Even without seeing the last part of your latest post I can tell that you spent a lot of time on a certain platform.

Edit: Lol. The first thing I see after clicking your link is a review of haidut's cyproheptadine. It describes how great the guy felt, and how high is libido became after taking it. Cypro is an anti-histamine

 

[Deadpool]

I think artificially raising histamine with drugs will be worse then the natural raising of histamine by other means which would be slower. The histamine receptors in low histamine individuals are very sensitive, so suddenly raising it will probably create PE because the receptors are already so sensitive because there is so little histamine to go around. Maybe it was betahistine or syrian rue.



I do plan one of these days to create a thread about it as I experiment some things myself but as for information, there is a lot of info online about low histamine and high histamine. Googling histapenia and histadelia is a good start if you are interested. You can also google images for those terms as well and the provide symptoms and what not.

Blog of a guy from hackstasis, has quite a few blog posts about histamine and other interesting stuff:
Area-1255

That’s interesting because as for the post, while I am after the typical androgenic type as described by the other poster (full hair, few body hair, lean muscular build, high sex drive) and I’d say I naturally always was like that (quite thin, long, full hair, no body hair except legs) I don’t have the sex drive.

Or rather high sex drive (desire for sex) but weak erections. Also classic high Histamine symptoms like sneezing especially after lots of peat diet things like orange juice.

So what I do is look up symptoms of histedelia and I find this which shockingly describes me:

What would you say in that case? Would lowering histamine be beneficial?

 

[redsun]

I think what you are saying is nonsense without any scientific basis. Even without seeing the last part of your latest post I can tell that you spent a lot of time on a certain platform.

Edit: Lol. The first thing I see after clicking your link is a review of haidut's cyproheptadine. It describes how great the guy felt, and how high is libido became after taking it. Cypro is an anti-histamine

This thread isnt about histamine so I am not going to make it about it with long posts and debates. Spend sometime researching histamine and its different receptors. Or don't. Doesn't affect me.

But, I mean what fool links to a blog that debunks him? You really think little of me. Yeh wise guy, keep in mind cypro's strong anti-serotonin effects. Antagonizing serotonin also will increase libido and this is despite its antihistamine effects. I never said histamine is the only determining factor in libido. There are a lot of things at play not just histamine. The guy literally tries all kinds of drugs.

 

[Kartoffel]

This thread isnt about histamine so I am not going to make it about it with long posts and debates. Spend sometime researching histamine and its different receptors. Or don't. Doesn't affect me.

But, I mean what fool links to a blog that debunks him? You really think little of me. Yeh wise guy, keep in mind cypro's strong anti-serotonin effects. Antagonizing serotonin also will increase libido and this is despite its antihistamine effects. I never said histamine is the only determining factor in libido. There are a lot of things at play not just histamine. The guy literally tries all kinds of drugs.

I didn't want to appear mean. Just a friendly word of caution - You loose brain cells at about 6 times the normal rate when you spent time on hackstasis.

 

[redsun]

I didn't want to appear mean. Just a friendly word of caution - You loose brain cells at about 6 times the normal rate when you spent time on hackstasis.

Not as many as you lose eating less than 90g protein a day. And no I learned from a book mostly, good luck learning anything from the ground up on that forum.

 

[Kartoffel]

Not as many as you lose eating less than 90g protein a day. And no I learned from a book mostly, good luck learning anything from the ground up on that forum.

Since low-protein diets have been shown to prolong good mental health into very old age, I am not worried. It might be that many of the mental impairments of the body builders and bro-scientists on hackstasis derive from high ammonia or hydrogen sulfide caused by excess protein.