Why Are Bodybuilders Bald?

PhilParma

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
543
Location
Minnesota
Just a friendly word of caution - You loose brain cells at about 6 times the normal rate when you spent time on hackstasis.
*lose

I will forgive you for your typo considering your manganese receptors are clearly desensitized. Drink your own urine for a month, do a hair test, and report back when you're healed. I hope you're able to understand. This is basic stuff man.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,206
Do you understand how the PPARS work?

If rats were fed no pufa from birth for generations which has been done (ingested no arachidonic acid ever) they would all be bald and never would have grown any hair?

i know what ray peat has to say about it but PUFA are physiologic,but in small amount only.it was in the consumption pattern,and was subjected to purpose of lifeform-shaping.
there is no doubt in my mind;after all,i believe that for a lot of healthy people hair thinning and balding are physiologic too.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,206
i remember that protein digestion is very slow,7g per hour,but at 24hours a day it would bring 168g of possible absorbed protein.
but there is much uncertainty of course.
 

redsun

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
3,013
That’s interesting because as for the post, while I am after the typical androgenic type as described by the other poster (full hair, few body hair, lean muscular build, high sex drive) and I’d say I naturally always was like that (quite thin, long, full hair, no body hair except legs) I don’t have the sex drive.

Or rather high sex drive (desire for sex) but weak erections. Also classic high Histamine symptoms like sneezing especially after lots of peat diet things like orange juice.

So what I do is look up symptoms of histedelia and I find this which shockingly describes me:

Histadelia.jpg


What would you say in that case? Would lowering histamine be beneficial?

Possibly beneficial but as for the weak erections it could be other issues. Reducing histamine if you are histadelic may help but its good to be wary. If you want to gain weight and muscle since you are already lean it helps to eat a lot of protein and carbs. This is a good book, talks about histadelia in there so you can check it out and learn more about it. He usually has is recommendations for each condition in there as well.
 

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tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
I think it's because growth/anabolism requires prolactin, phosphate, estrogen, whereas progesterone is more catabolic and is not conducive to tissue building. So the hormonal environment needed to build muscle to that degree is the opposite of what is needed for good health/hair in an adult.

Wrong. Progesterone is anti-catabolic.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
As many on this forum understand, there exists a genetic susceptibility to DHT, the androgen converted from testosterone, that causes hair loss. Body builders use enormous amounts of testosterone, which ramps up the activity of this conversion of Testosterone to DHT. The Supra -physiological levels of T are the cause of accelerated baldness.

There is no proof at all that DHT causes hair loss, and the idea of "genetic susceptability" is even more baseless. Don't even know if there is any evidence that high amounts of Testosterone (not testosterone esters or other artificial steriods) causes baldness.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
Why are eunuchs not bald? Ever read the twins studies where one twin was castrated by trauma? The castrated twin does not go bald. Put the castrated twin on testosterone replacement therapy and he matches the hair loss pattern of the non-castrated twin.

Danny Roddy has an in depth discussion of this idea here-

The Danny Roddy Weblog
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
What I meant by catabolic was that it's not growth-promoting like estrogen, not literally catabolic like cortisol.

Well, your terminology is incorrect, and more to the point, progesterone itself can help to increase muscle growth due to it's anti-catabolic nature, specifically as a glucocorticoid antagonist. Haidut discussed it in thread, and I have experienced the same effect of increasing muscle mass from dosing extra progresterone-

Structural Requirements For An Optimal Anti-Catabolic Steroid
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
@Kartoffel
Purely out of curiosity, what do you consider to constitute excess protein?

----------------------------------------------------

There definetly is a genetic component to hairloss.
For example, a 20 year old white male, lean, muscular, eats well, has no discernable diseases starts to lose his hair with no other symptoms whatsoever. Meanwhile, a 60 year old hispanic man with overt diabetes, previous history of cancer, a kidney transplant, multiple stents, eats terribly, doesnt sleep well and has been on pharma drugs for years, has a full head of hair. I have seen this scenerio and countless others similar to it many times.

This doesnt mean that genes are the final determining factor or the direct cause, just that they do play a role, atleast in the manifestations of disease and/ or responses to hormonal mileu.

Many people like to look at Danny Roddy as an example of someone growing thier hair back but as far as I can see Danny didnt lose his hair becuase of a genetic predisposition to androgen sensitivity. I mean, with all due respect, Danny doesnt even seem to have much in the way of androgenic qualities, especially the qualities that are characteristic of many balding men. Danny most likely lost his hair becuase of his extreme dietary habits directly leading to a thyroid issue.

With this in mind though, the principles that peat lays out still apply wether someone is losing thier hair or not and Danny's work overall is very valuable. Also, most hairloss drugs, as Danny has pointed out many times, are not worth it, and there are a variety of other things that can help to atleast stop/ slow down the hairloess i.e. progesterone, aspirin, thyroid, adequate carbs from safe sources, adequate protein, PUFA avoidance/ SAFA consumption etc. With this said, in my experience, the only way to really grow back lost hair is through some type of wounding procedure like needling (however this should probably only be attempted once everything else is under control).

The appeal to "genetics" is one of the only appeals that needs no direct proof, or truthfully any proof, for people to accept it as fact. Even in your first example, you only name five environmental factors (out of thousands, even millions) and then conclude "oh, genetics." So where are is this so called baldness gene? Can I look it up on my raw 23& Me data? This blog post tells you how to look up your data to see if you have the genetic predisposition to Hemochromatosis- Hacking hemochromatosis: how to get your HFE gene status via 23andMe (C282Y, H63D, and S65C) — Celtic Curse

Where is the guide to look up if you have the genetic predisposition to baldness?
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,244
Well, your terminology is incorrect, and more to the point, progesterone itself can help to increase muscle growth due to it's anti-catabolic nature, specifically as a glucocorticoid antagonist. Haidut discussed it in thread, and I have experienced the same effect of increasing muscle mass from dosing extra progresterone-

Structural Requirements For An Optimal Anti-Catabolic Steroid

I said it was "more catabolic" in relation to prolactin, phosphate, estrogen, so no my terminology was not incorrect. And yes progesterone *can* increase muscle growth by antagonizing cortisol, but you're not going to build muscle to that degree if you're in a progesterone-dominant state as opposed to a water-logged, estrogenic state.
 

Zigzag

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
663
The appeal to "genetics" is one of the only appeals that needs no direct proof, or truthfully any proof, for people to accept it as fact. Even in your first example, you only name five environmental factors (out of thousands, even millions) and then conclude "oh, genetics." So where are is this so called baldness gene? Can I look it up on my raw 23& Me data? This blog post tells you how to look up your data to see if you have the genetic predisposition to Hemochromatosis- Hacking hemochromatosis: how to get your HFE gene status via 23andMe (C282Y, H63D, and S65C) — Celtic Curse

Where is the guide to look up if you have the genetic predisposition to baldness?

If it wasn't genetic we'd already have it fixed.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
If it wasn't genetic we'd already have it fixed.
Considering that the world is becoming more and more toxic, no, I don't think we'd have fixed it by now. Most people have no idea that PUFA is bad.
 

Herbie

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
2,192
i know what ray peat has to say about it but PUFA are physiologic,but in small amount only.it was in the consumption pattern,and was subjected to purpose of lifeform-shaping.
there is no doubt in my mind;after all,i believe that for a lot of healthy people hair thinning and balding are physiologic too.

Here is a thread by Travis who already covered the prostglandins in depth
PPARs And Keratin
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,206
Wall of text incoming,such poor bros,obscure n=1 study that says SALT is MPB,ive become more&more anti-salt myselph.
we consume excess amounts of it,1-3g are realistic through an realistic consumption plan.saltdispensers are hooligans to me!
salt induced TH17 cells are the bad boys for everything.and salting powerfully stimulates all-out inflammation.

FOLDES, E. (1957). Influence of the Salt Intake on the Loss of Scalp Hair. Acta Medica Scandinavica, 159(2), 147–150. doi:10.1111/j.0954-6820.1957.tb00117.x





Actn
Medicn
Scandirisrics.
Yol.
CLIX,
fusc.
11,
1957.
Influence
of
the
Salt
Iiitake on
the
Loss
of
Scalp
Hair.
BY
EUGENE
FOLDES,
11.
D.
New
York
City,
U.
S.
A.
(Submitted
for
publication
June
24,
1957.)
In
a group
of
patients
who
complained
of
losing
scalp
hair
at
an
increased
rate
improvement
followed
the
administration
of
theophylline
preparations
(1).
The
improvement
was
attributed
to
elimination
of
excess
sodium chloride
from
the
tissues
of
the
scalp
(1).
This presentation
deals
with findings
which were
en-
countered
when
an
answer
was
sought
to
the
question
as
to
whether
the
results
obtained
by
theophylline
preparations can
be
duplicated
by
a
salt
poor
diet.
The
observations
were
made
on
a
man,
63
years
of
age, who
for several
years
had
noticed
an
excessive loss
of
scalp
hair
and
who
presented
a moderately
ad-
vanced
type
of
common
baldness (male
pattern
alopecia,
senile
alopecia).
In
car-
rying
out
the
observations
a
procedure similar
to
the
one
employed
in the
previ-
ous
work was followed
(1).
Daily
losses
of
hair
were
counted
but
they
showed
such
wide
spontaneous
fluctuations
that
it
was impossible
to
use
them
as
a
basis
for
comparison.
For
a
basis
for
comparison
the
average
daily
loss
of
hair
for
the
week
derived from
the
total
number
of
hairs
lost
during
the
week
was
adopted
since
that
average,
if
the
experimental
conditions
were
kept
unchanged,
was
of
con-
siderable
constancy
(1).
In
the attempt
to
keep
experimental
conditions unchanged, shampooing was
encountered
as
a
difficulty.
On
the
day
when
it
is
practiced
shampooing
is
ac-
companied
by
a
considerably larger
than
average
loss
of
hair
which
cannot
he
collected
and
counted,
and
on
subsequent
days
the
hair
loss is
correspondingly
smaller
than the
average.
In
the
cases previously
reported
the
problem
was solvcd
by
suspending
either
the
shampooing
during
the
period
of
observation
or
else
suspending
the
observation
for one
week
after
the
shampoo.
In
the
case
here
148
EUGENE
FOLDES.
described
in
which
shampooing occurred
in
intervals
of
14
days,
observations
were
carried
out
over a
period
of
years
so
that
omission
of
shampooing
was
not
practicable.
Consideration
of
daily
averages
of
those
weeks
only
in
which
no
shampoo
occurred
was
an
alternative
but
it
was
equally unacceptable
because
continuous
rather
than
periodically
interrupted
observations
were needed.
The difficulty
was overcome
in
the
following
manner. Regarding
the
daily aver-
age
hair
loss
during
the
week
when no
shampoo
occurred,
the
snormab
obtained
under certain experimental
conditions (which
will
be defined
later)
was
of
great
constancy
so
that
it
could be used
as
a basis
for
comparison
with
the
))pathological))
figure
obtained under
changed
experimental
conditions. Disregarding
the
loss
of
hair
occurring
on
the
day
of
shampoo
the
daily averages
obtained from
the
sum
total
of
hair
lost
during
the
six
days
of
the
week
following
shampoo
were,
under
the
circumstances previously
referred
to
as
securing a
))normals
hair
loss, also
of
considerable
constancy. They
also could be used
as
a
basis
for comparison
with
other,
))pathological)), figures similarly derived
from
the
total
loss
of
hair during
the
six
days
of
the
week
following
shampoo,
but
so
derived
under
changed experi-
mental
conditions.
Finally
a
common
denominator
for
the
two
sets
of
figures
-
i.
e.
those
of
the
week
of
shampoo
and
those
of
the
week
of
no
shampoo
--
was
obtained in
the
usual
way
expressing
the
variations
both
for
the
week
of
shampoo
and
no
shampoo in
percentages
of
the
respective
))normal,
values.
As
will
be
shown, on a
salt
poor
diet
the
averages
were
consistently
lower
than
on
an
unrestricted
diet.
They
were also
of
great
constancy
for
the
individual.
For
these
reasons
the
figures
obtained
on
a
salt
poor
diet
were
accepted
as
))nor-
mab
figures.
When
the
patient
was
on
an
unrestricted
diet
no
attempt
was
made
to
control
the
table salt
intake
although
foods
prepared with
considerable
amount
of
salt
were
generally avoided
and
the
salt
shaker
was used
moderately.
In
contrast,
when
on a
restricted
diet,
with
the
exception
of
bread,
only foods cooked
or
pre-
pared without
salt
were used
and
no
table
salt
was
added
to
these.
During
the
week
of
no
shampoo
and
on
a
restricted
diet
the
daily
average
loss
of
hair
varied between
40
and
46,
the
median
average
being
43
(Table
1).
During
the
six
days
of
the
week
following
shampoo
and
on a
restricted
diet
the
daily aver-
age
loss
of
hair
varied between
19
and
21
with
a
median average
of
19
(Table
1).
Under
the
circumstances
so
defined
43
and
19
were
accepted
as
))normal))
figures,
respectively.
In
what
follows
these
))normalo
figures
will
be
abandoned
in
favor
of
percentages
of
the
))normal)),
making differentiation
between
weeks
of
shampoo
and
no
shampoo
no longer necessary.
Table
2
shows
that
on
salt
poor
diet
the
averages
fluctuated
between
+
11
yo
and
-
11
%.
Accordingly
figures
higher
than
+
11
yo
were considered
to
be
above
vnormab. On
the
salt
poor
diet
the
median average
daily
loss
of
hair
was
f
0
%.
In
contrast,
on
an
unrestricted
diet
the
daily
averages
obtained
for
the
week
on
numerous
occasions
varied between
+
32
yo
and
+
58
%;
the
median
average
daily
loss was
+
45
yo.
It
is
obvious
that
the
addition
of
table salt
was
accompanied
by
a
considerably increased
loss
of
hair.
The
same
conclusion was
reached
by
observations,
which were
obtained
when
the
diet alternated
between
IXFLUENCE
OF
THE
SALT
INTAKE
ON
THE
LOSS
OF
SCALP
HAIR.
149
Ihring
we.c+s
nf
So
restriction
I
Salt
restriction
Table
1.
Daily
average
hair
loss
on
salt
poor
diet.
During
weeks
of
So
restriction
I
Salt
restriction
During
weeks
of
So
Shampoo
45
45
44
40
43
44
44
4.5
41
$2
Shampoo
20
17
21
20
19
20
19
19
18
21
During
weeks
of
No
Shampoo
1
Shampoo
I
20
20
20
18
20
19
46
42
44
45
43
41
Median
average
43
19
Table
?.
Daily
ncerage
hair
loss
as
percentage
01
the
))normal)).
oiie
or
inore
weeks
of
salt restriction
and
one
or
more
weeks
of
no
re3triction
(Table
3,
Experiment
1-4).
In
these observations
the
effect
of
one
week
or
more
of
unrestricted
diet was
observed.
While
no
more
than
two unrestricted
meals
in
a
week
did
not
appreci-
ably
influence
the
))normal))
figure,
if
all
the
six meals
of
two
consecutive
days
were
unrestricted,
a
significantly
increased
daily average
for
the
week
and
a
return
to
the
))normal))
figure
on
the
following week
occurred
(Table
3,
Experi-
ment
5).
If
confirmed.
the
practical
significance
of
these results
for
patients
interested
in retaining
their
scalp
hair
is
obvious.
In
addition,
since
the
particular kind
of
iiicreasetl
loss
of
scalp
hair
here
exclusively considered
(male
pattern
alopecia,
senile
alopecia,
etc.)
is
generally
attributed
to
ageing,
retardation
of
some
aspects
of
the
ageing process,
other
than the
hair
loss,
hy
adherence
to
a
salt
poor
diet
is
offered
as
a
possibility.
150
EUGENE
FOLDES.
Table
3.
Experimrnt
No.
1
First
week
Second
I)
Third
))
Fourth
o
Fifth
n
Sixth
1)
Seventh
o
Eighth
o
Experiment
No.
2
First
wcrk
Second
H
Third
D
Fourth
t)
Fifth
N
Sixth
))
Seventh
))
Bxpwimenl
No.
3
First
week
Second
))
Third
I)
Fourth
4
h’rperimrnt
NO.
4
First
week
Second
1)
Third
))
Fourth
1)
Fifth
o
Sixth
1)
Seventh
I)
Eighth
1)
Ninth
I)
Experiment
So.
6
First
week
Second
o
Third
D
Salt restriction
......................................
1)
-
-
......................................
-
0
-
......................................
-
D
-
......................................
KO
restriction
......................................
Salt
restriction
......................................
1)
-
-
......................................
-
1)
--
......................................
Salt
restriction
......................................
No
restriction
......................................
Salt
restriction
......................................
-
D
-
......................................
))
-
0
-
-
......................................
-
......................................
-
D
-
......................................
Salt, restriction
......................................
No
restriction
......................................
Salt
restriction
......................................
-0
-
......................................
Salt restrichon
......................................
1)
-
0
-
-
......................................
-
......................................
-
!)
-
......................................
-
n
-
......................................
So
restriction
......................................
Salt
restrict
i(
in
......................................
))
-
n
-
-
......................................
-
......................................
Salt
restriction
......................................
No
restriction, first
two
days
of
the
week
.............
Salt
restriction
......................................
Average Daily
Hair
Loss
As
Percent
of
Nornial
f2
$-
2
*o
-t
5
i-
47
+
35
-+
5
-5
+o
+
26
+
21
t
12
A.
0
5
+7
-
t3
i-5
-1-
19
+5
-+
5
+5
-5
+5
f
0
+
31
+5
-5
io
+
11
-t
24
-+
I,
Summary.
The
observations
here
presented
showed
that
in
comparison
to
losses
occurring
on
a
salt
poor
diet,
loss
of
scalp
hair
was
considerably increased on a
diet
un-
restricted
in
its
table
salt
content.
Put
in another
form
it
can
be said
that
adher-
ence
to
a
salt
poor
diet
significantly reduced
the
loss
of
scalp
hair.
In
the
individual
on
whom
the
observations
were
carried
out
these findings
were
obtained
on
numer-
ous
occasions
and
were
distinguished
by
a high
degree
of
reproducibility. The
in-
crease
of
hair
loss was
manifest
after
two
days
or
more
of
an
unrestricted
diet
while
the
return
to
the
onormalo
figure
was
noticeable
during
the
first
week
of
the
salt
poor
diet
and
was
complete
in
one
or
two
weeks.
Referenoes.
1.
Foldes,
Eugene:
Acta-Dermato-Venereologica
35:
334,
1955.
 

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