Bald Guy Regrows Hair With Birth Control Pills

[Broco6679]

I have had different experience with TSH and prolactin. I tested them together 4 times and had prolactin change over 300mIU/l without any correlation to TSH which was about 2 every time.

It was mainly the correlation between serum estradiol and TSH that was the strongest; though prolactin did correlate strongly, too.

This was only on TRT for me though. I've been off for a while now, and my estradiol is sitting around 55 (40 - 155) pmol/L, yet TSH is up at 3. As I mentioned in my previous comment, I think exogenous testosterone gives a person a much more exaggerated hormone profile, but also a more stable one, too. Serum levels in someone with a working hpta will bounce around all day which may explain some variations, but on trt, serum testosterone, and by proxy estrogen, are pinned within a tiny range all day, everyday (assuming you're using a longer ester with frequent injections), which can make certain trends stand out more as there's no variation.

Btw, do you know from your personal experience or other labs posted in TRT forums what are the effects of exemestane/AIs on serum progesterone levels?

Not that I noticed. Progesterone really isn't tested all that much in the TRT community, as it's still viewed as a 'female' hormone. I only came onto Peat towards the end of my time on testosterone, so I didn't get it checked much myself as I had the same mindset, unfortunately.

I personally don't think exemestane and anastrozole in the doses used in men significantly effect progesterone -- not enough to explain ai-related side effects, at least. I've searched for the studies that suggest ai's reduce progesterone, and the only ones I found relate to the expression of the progesterone receptor in biopsies of ER-positive invasive breast cancer in post-menopausal women, who are usually taking doses of 1 mg + anastrozole a day. Personally, I don't think this can be used to support the claim of significantly reduced serum levels in males taking order-of-magnitude lower doses being the cause of ai-related side effects.

I'm open to being wrong though, and would actually be happy if I was. One hypothesis is that those who are on testosterone are already low in upstream hormones from hpta shutdown, so they are more sensitive to even minor change to serum progesterone. That does not explain the joint pain experienced by many on this forum with a working hpta when taking exemestane, androsterone or anastrozole -- often whilst simultaneously taking preg, prog and dhea alongside.

In my opinion, I do think you can take estrogen too low, and it will have negative effects. This forum often has an all or nothing mentality -- if Peat says a hormone is bad, it has to be bad in every single situation, and getting it as low as possible with the use of powerful pharmacological agents is going to bring nothing but optimal health; and vise versa. This is then predicated with a lot of mental gymnastics to try and explain why the side effects of a drug that tanks said hormones couldn't possibly be related to the hormone you are significantly reducing.

In reality, estrogen is in the body for a reason, and taking it too low will have negative repercussions. The same applies to most anti-metabolic hormones -- prolactin, cortisol, alodosterone, serotonin, etc. You don't want them elevated, but you don't want them deficient, either.

 

[JDreamer]

Yes, clotrimazole also inhibits aromatase.

In your opinion, then is it safe to rub on my scalp?

 

[Estradiol]

In your opinion, then is it safe to rub on my scalp?

I find all -azole drugs are safe topically. They have anti-cortisol, anti-androgen, anti-aromatase activity.

Ketoconazole and miconazole have these effects. Others aren't studied extensively.

Inhibition of 11β-hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase 2 by the Fungicides Itraconazole and Posaconazole - PubMed

Just make sure you stay away from itraconazole and posaconazole. They can increase cortisol by inhibiting 11β-HSD2.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

If you are saying DHT or anti Androgens are the result of the AGA process rather than provocateurs what would be your explanation of birth control pills reversing hair loss? Do they increase circulation since you said there is poorer circulation in the scalp of AGA persons?

I get your anti androgen argument but does not explain the reverse result of BC pills.

 

[Estradiol]

If you are saying DHT or anti Androgens are the result of the AGA process rather than provocateurs what would be your explanation of birth control pills reversing hair loss? Do they increase circulation since you said there is poorer circulation in the scalp of AGA persons?

I get your anti androgen argument but does not explain the reverse result of BC pills.

That has been explained 10000 times in this forum. You are not reading.

Adrenal androgens causes hair loss. Not the gonadal androgens. OC pills are strong inhibitors of adrenal androgens.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

I believe low dose oral Minoxidil works better than topical. Must start on low dose and increase to about 2.5mg daily I was told.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

Thank you Estradiol. I have not read the 10,000 previous posts on the subject....I appreciate the feedback however.

 

[Estradiol]

I believe low dose oral Minoxidil works better than topical. Must start on low dose and increase to about 2.5mg daily I was told.

It's effects on forehead hair is fascinating. But it's not good for heart health as far as I know? Even if it's a potassium channel opener?

Anyone knows more about minoxidil tablets?

 

[mrchibbs]

It's effects on forehead hair is fascinating. But it's not good for heart health as far as I know? Even if it's a potassium channel opener?

Anyone knows more about minoxidil tablets?

It inhibits collagen formation. Which can be a good thing in state of a fibrosis. It will produce dramatic effects in guys with recent hair loss (I should know I used it a couple years ago), but it will invariably generate other signs of aging in the face, and can precipitate hypertrichosis (unwanted body hair growth elsewhere), which is not necessarily resolved after stopping its usage. And it requires lifetime use.

 

[Estradiol]

It inhibits collagen formation. Which can be a good thing in state of a fibrosis. It will produce dramatic effects in guys with recent hair loss (I should know I used it a couple years ago), but it will invariably generate other signs of aging in the face, and can precipitate hypertrichosis (unwanted body hair growth elsewhere), which is not necessarily resolved after stopping its usage. And it requires lifetime use.

Thanks.

Looks like it stimulates hair growth all over body. Not just scalp.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks.

Looks like it stimulates hair growth all over body. Not just scalp.

Yeah you'll get bushier eyebrows too, but also neck hair, back hair possibly etc.

 

[StephanF]

By the way, dude regrew his hair with spiro, estradiol, dutasteride, minoxidil, and biotin

Seriously? In the two pictures, the liver spots on the forehead are not the same. Two pictures of two different people! EDIT: Someone (mrchibbs see below) pointed out that the second image was flipped, didn't catch that.

I read through the posts and what struck me was that the liver function was mentioned. I am 65 and after ~40 rapidly got fairly bold. I never consumed a lot of alcohol, I would get dizzy, tired, etc., so I never got drunk once in my life. I am down to half a glass of wine once a week, if that. For the last 2 months or so, we are taking chlorine dioxide (MMS) every day, not very much, 1-2 x 3 activated drops per day, as a preventative against Covid-19. This morning I talked to my son and he is not a big alcohol consumer either, he has an onset of thinning of his hair line up on his forehead, he is 25. He had also bad body odor in the groin area, and said that after being on the chlorine dioxide that body odor disappeared, and he said that last night he had a couple of beers and didn't notice a thing. Same here, the last two nights I had half a glass of wine, none of the usual effects I noticed. So did we had weak liver function?

I went to mmstestimonials.co to look if anybody posted about chlorine dioxide and hair growth. There was one odd post, it is a video of a guy stating that he made a spray of 50 activated drops into 1 oz of water, that is a huge concentration! 1 fl. oz = 30 ml and one activated drop (0.05ml) gives 7.9 mg of chlorine dioxide. So 50 drops into 1 fl oz is about 1.3% or 13,000 ppm, plus chemical residuals and left-over acids. There is a better product, chlorine dioxide solution (CDS), which usually comes in 3,000 ppm. We make hand sanitizers with that at 100 ppm solution. That is enough to kill bugs. a few weeks ago, I treated an eye infection (was that Covid-19?) where I added 10 ppm of CDS to eye drops, the next day the swelling of my eye lid was almost gone, then the next few days, puss came out of the rim of the lower eye-lid. It is completely gone now. I will try my 100 spray on my head to see if that does anything. But the reason that this guy's hair came back maybe it was due to the transdermal absorption of chlorine dioxide that may have corrected some underlying health issue causing baldness (liver function)? Here is the video link:

Hair - MMS Testimonials - Master Mineral Solution, Miracle Mineral Solution

Also testimonials on liver issues there.

 

[JDreamer]

That has been explained 10000 times in this forum. You are not reading.

Adrenal androgens causes hair loss. Not the gonadal androgens. OC pills are strong inhibitors of adrenal androgens.

This makes so much sense to me looking back at the period in my life when the stress ramped up (both physically/mentally) and my hair loss really hit. Now I just need to flip it in reverse and stop this cascade of adrenal androgens.

 

[mrchibbs]

Seriously? In the two pictures, the liver spots on the forehead are not the same. Two pictures of two different people!

No dude. The picture is merely inverted. It's 100% the same guy.

 

[DhtAssassin]

Thanks for the link, I'd never heard of clacosterone. You're right to question everything. We could be wrong (us here on the RPF) in thinking that androgens do not cause hair loss. They may be part of the issue. But based on all the evidence I've seen, my understanding is that androgens like DHT are merely elevated as an adaptive measure, they don't cause hair loss. I think this explains why Valerie Randall found that topical DHT would increase hair growth, or even how Papa and Kligman found that topical testosterone increased hair growth in bald men way back in 1965

Clacosterone, once more, seems to be a progesterone derivative, and it seems to me that every single hair loss medication is made from progesterone, and they emphasize its anti-androgenic effect while not considering it's more potent effects on lowering the stress hormones, opposing estrogen and increasing progesterone itself.



I think researchers are starting to realize that the anti-androgenic effects do not reflect the systemic mechanism of action of the various progestins, even specifically in the case of clacosterone:




You could be right in saying that androgens affect scalp hair differently, although to borrow your words, that has always felt bizarre to me. Why would scalp follicles be more "sensitive" to androgens? Certainly not genetics. Men with great scalp hair growth typically have great androgen levels, including DHT. And there is some evidence that DHT helps the hair follicles grow stronger.

I think the difference with scalp hair vs. other follicles of beard and body hair, is explained by two factors:

1) it is a concentrated area with a lot of follicles, and these follicles are more energy-intensive than other body hair follicles, because they can grow much longer than other body hair, and they have very long hair cycles (covering years). This makes it more difficult to sustain hair growth when the physiology goes awry.

2) There is a relative microvascular insufficiency in top area of the scalp. Blood and nutrient supply to the vertex and frontal regions are more easily disrupted, and there isn't enough movement of the occipital-frontalis muscles to prevent fibrosis of the tissues, contrary to the side of the scalp which is always stimulated by chewing, or the neck muscles. Feet and hands, for instance, also get cold from insufficient circulation, but they are used the tissues are stimulated all the time, so fibrosis doesn't set in.

What do you mean by "Clacosterone seems to be a progesterone derivative"? I believe one of the clacosterone studies showed that there were no effect at all on hormone levels. It is supposedly to be released soon for acne, completed all phases, waiting for FDA approval.

Why do you dismiss genetics so easily? It's clear that hair on different part's of the body react differently to hormones. Why do women have nice hair, but have no beard? There must be something different between beard/body hair and hair on sides of the head or scalp.

Also, there exists such thing called "Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome". People with such condition have insane amounts of estrogen, zero T, and yet scalp hair growth is usually normal.

There is something missing.

 

[mrchibbs]

What do you mean by "Clacosterone seems to be a progesterone derivative"? I believe one of the clacosterone studies showed that there were no effect at all on hormone levels. It is supposedly to be released soon for acne, completed all phases, waiting for FDA approval.

(From Wikipedia) Clascosterone, also known as cortexolone 17α-propionate or 11-deoxycortisol 17α-propionate, as well as 17α,21-dihydroxyprogesterone 17α-propionate or 17α,21-dihydroxypregn-4-en-3,20-dione 17α-propionate, is a synthetic pregnane steroid and a derivative of progesterone and 11-deoxycortisol (cortexolone).[9]

Why do you dismiss genetics so easily? It's clear that hair on different part's of the body react differently to hormones. Why do women have nice hair, but have no beard? There must be something different between beard/body hair and hair on sides of the head or scalp.

I dismiss genetics because I read on the topic a lot, and for quite some years, and the more I read the more I realize that genetic theory was mostly fueled by dogma, not real science. There are countless studies over the past decade (and a few more over the last 3 decades) that show how genes can become inactivated by environmental enrichment (i.e. nutrition, light, hormones etc.). Basically genes are never set in stone, and since the human genome project, we've come to understand that they don't explain the vast majority of susceptibility to disease. It is my belief that as we move towards transgenerational epigenetics we'll make a lot more progress.

Also, there exists such thing called "Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome". People with such condition have insane amounts of estrogen, zero T, and yet scalp hair growth is usually normal.

I don't know much (anything) about CAIS, so I can't comment on it.

There is something missing.

A lot is missing. We understand very little about human physiology.

 

[Broco6679]

Why do you dismiss genetics so easily?

Because where is the evidence for the genetic theory? If the evidence was there, we wouldn't dispute it; but there is no evidence.

There isn't a single study you can point us to that demonstrates the causal role of genes in mpb. Almost every truly genetic condition has had it's associated gene isolated. I myself have an extremely rare inherited genetic disorder called x-linked juvenile retinoschsis -- a disease of the retina that effects only 1 in every 30,000 people. The condition is so rare that there is zero financial incentive for big pharma to invest into it's research, yet the exact genetic defect was determined decades ago.

But somehow, the cause of male pattern baldness is genetic, effects almost every male in the world after a certain age, and not a single pharma company who have already invested hundreds of millions, and would stand to profit billions, can find the gene responsible? That tells you all you need to know, in my opinion.

Genetics probably do play a role, but more so due to an inherited susceptibility / vulnerability to the stress that underlies the pathology, rather than absolute determinism.

 

[inc0gnito]

I think the DHEA being elevated is an adaptive, protective response to the chronic rise in cortisol. Much like elevated taurine-glycine ratio can be a chronic stress biomarker, and yet we know taurine isn't bad in of itself, and in fact is quite therapeutic.

So I view the elevated DHEA and Taurine (and others) as associated with stress, not part of the negative causation of stress. I think Ray still recommends DHEA but in small amounts (I think he uses 3-4mg daily). Haidut recommended less than 15mg daily to prevent potential aromatase. I use 5-10mg topically daily, as a dose to top off my natural amounts. I think it's best taken in conjunction with progesterone. I've just received a new bottle of Progesterone (I'd given my previous stocks to women in my family), so I think I am going to make a 5:1 Progesterone to DHEA solution for topical use.

What brand of Progestrone cream are you using? Do you know of any reputable brands of Prog cream in Amazon? Thanks.

 

[mrchibbs]

What brand of Progestrone cream are you using? Do you know of any reputable brands of Prog cream in Amazon? Thanks.

Hi! I like Health Natura's Progesterone, or Progest-E. I am not familiar with the brands on Amazon.

 

[Estradiol]

I'm using Oxiconazole spray for 2 days. One thing that I notice, it dramatically reduced my forehead sweating and oiliness.

Weather is so heavy and dry here.