Starch - The Delicious Devil

[famalalam]

"Naturally fermented sourdough is less harmful than standard or unleavened wheat products, but any starch tends to stimulate appetite by activating fat synthesis. The same number of calories in fruit would be less fattening, and would keep your blood sugar steadier, improve your sleep and mental energy."

"When starch is well cooked, and eaten with some fat and the essential nutrients, it's safe, except that it's more likely than sugar to produce fat, and isn't as effective for mineral balance."

- Ray Peat

I think this forums neuroticism often allows for foods be analysed outside of its proper context. While wheat on its own may cause issues, there's nobody that's consuming wheat solely by itself. And in the event that it is fattening, it is thankfully saturated fat.

 

[Sefton10]

I haven't eaten a single starchy food in months, and I've never felt better!

+1. Zero craving for them either.

 

[Ritchie]

"Volkheimer found that mice fed raw starch

after reading this quote from Ray Peat, what argument is there?

Lol you don't see the argument?? When was the last time you ate raw starch? Like raw rice? Raw potatoes?Raw pasta? I mean c'mon... It never happens. Those experiments were obviously flawed and it's baffling that Peat refers to them. Volkheimer also inserted raw starch particles up the mice rectum. And then subsequently observed issues with the mice, including persorption. I mean go figure how you could ever extrapolate these experiments to humans who eat cooked starch (who by the way have evolved to eat starch, even down to the amylase enzyme in our saliva that begin starch digestion). There is absolutely zero evidence of persorption of cooked starch eaten by humans. Zero. If you can find some evidence of it please post it, that would be interesting. As far as blood sugar spikes that cause fat storage, when eaten with fats and proteins or other sugars this mitigates that risk. Look at asia, who eat a ton of rice, they certainly don't have an obesity epidemic by any stretch of the imagination. Japan as a case in point.

 

[SamYo123]

Oats rot your teeth more than all of the grains so that isn't an option, not to mention you waste all of your cslcium having it carry out the phosphorus. I agree some potato and masa are the SAFEST, but am with OccamzRazer and Ray Peat and staying off that starch rollercoaster. Like he says why would you choose starches when there are better quality foods to choose from, like FROZEN fruit ?

Yeh but if you temps are low, why would you consume fruit, how many people warm up by eating fruit vs a warm potato?

 

[equipoise]

No problems at all with rice/pasta (not fortified around here)/potatoes..

Need a lot of calories often, can't really just rely on milk and fruit and will easily trigger lipolysis and gluconeogenesis with being underfed.

I just make sure to have the carrot salad daily and mushrooms couple of times a week.

 

[Sefton10]

Yeh but if you temps are low, why would you consume fruit, how many people warm up by eating fruit vs a warm potato?

Warm salted Jersey milk with honey, dark chocolate, a couple of oysters and some fruit ?

 

[76er]

I'm doing well (digestion, energy, weight, etc.) taking in bread first thing
in the morning with my coffee (latte w/ maple syrup and gelatin). Some days it
is a sprouted wheat bagel w/ no gum cream cheese or two slices of homemade
pizza (KAF organic all-purpose flour) w/ onions, green peppers or niximized
tortillas w/ no gum sour cream.

In all scenarios I put about three ounces of ground beef/beef liver (80/20
mix) so there are plenty of nutrients going on top of the bread.

After that I usually don't have breads or other starches and tend to gain
weight with regular consumption of dinner-time breads and pastas. That said, I
do have the following once a week at dinner time: pizza; spaghetti bolognese
(organic Italian low-fortified iron pasta); and a cheeseburger on a sprouted
wheat bun.

Of my total daily carb intake that is ~300g I do about ~50g of starches
(almost always from bread). Some days the starch count is lower and some days
it is higher.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Another downside to starch:

For me, at least, it's not nearly as good for body composition as fruit or honey.

No way I could eat 5,000-6,000 calories of pasta and bread a day and stay lean. I'd be a bloated mess lol.

 

[Angel45]

I love grains and potatoes, more than fruit, dairy and proteins, but I definetly get tubby pretty quick when I indulge too often. Haidut has a new thread which he posted this study.

Do you eat white sugar. I feel I need the potassium that fruit adds to the sugars and tend to save my white sugar for things like a piece of choclat. so take a little extra potassium everyday which has helped me with water retention. I go back and forth on wanting to eat less starch. Just don't feel like my blood sugar stays stable on fruits alone. Maybe because they digest so fast? I would love to see a typical day of eating that you do. My son was on the gaps diet years ago and I am thinking of pulling starches out of his diet again. I have stuck with potatoes because of the potassium in them.

 

[Angel45]

Lol you don't see the argument?? When was the last time you ate raw starch? Like raw rice? Raw potatoes?Raw pasta? I mean c'mon... It never happens. Those experiments were obviously flawed and it's baffling that Peat refers to them. Volkheimer also inserted raw starch particles up the mice rectum. And then subsequently observed issues with the mice, including persorption. I mean go figure how you could ever extrapolate these experiments to humans who eat cooked starch (who by the way have evolved to eat starch, even down to the amylase enzyme in our saliva that begin starch digestion). There is absolutely zero evidence of persorption of cooked starch eaten by humans. Zero. If you can find some evidence of it please post it, that would be interesting. As far as blood sugar spikes that cause fat storage, when eaten with fats and proteins or other sugars this mitigates that risk. Look at asia, who eat a ton of rice, they certainly don't have an obesity epidemic by any stretch of the imagination. Japan as a case in point.

Do the amylase enzymes work on resistant starch. I always eat things like left over potatoes or potato salad. Kids with mitochondrial disease are often told to eat raw corn starch in orange juice before bed to get them through the night with out having a seizure.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Lol you don't see the argument?? When was the last time you ate raw starch? Like raw rice? Raw potatoes?Raw pasta? I mean c'mon... It never happens. Those experiments were obviously flawed and it's baffling that Peat refers to them. Volkheimer also inserted raw starch particles up the mice rectum. And then subsequently observed issues with the mice, including persorption. I mean go figure how you could ever extrapolate these experiments to humans who eat cooked starch (who by the way have evolved to eat starch, even down to the amylase enzyme in our saliva that begin starch digestion). There is absolutely zero evidence of persorption of cooked starch eaten by humans. Zero. If you can find some evidence of it please post it, that would be interesting. As far as blood sugar spikes that cause fat storage, when eaten with fats and proteins or other sugars this mitigates that risk. Look at asia, who eat a ton of rice, they certainly don't have an obesity epidemic by any stretch of the imagination. Japan as a case in point.

I already gave you my evidence. In my father his Alzheimers is triggered by grains. Ray himself has talked about grains leaching into the bloodstream through the intestines, and he wasn't talking about raw starch.

"Starch-grain embolisms can cause brain damage, but major money can also make people say stupid things ."-Ray Peat

"In an old experiment, a rat was tube-fed ten grams of corn-starch paste, and then anesthetized. Ten minutes after the massive tube feeding, the professor told the students to find how far the starch had moved along the alimentary canal. No trace of the white paste could be found, demonstrating the speed with which starch can be digested and absorbed. The very rapid rise of blood sugar stimulates massive release of insulin, and rapidly converts much of the carbohydrate into fat."-Ray Peat

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Do you eat white sugar. I feel I need the potassium that fruit adds to the sugars and tend to save my white sugar for things like a piece of choclat. so take a little extra potassium everyday which has helped me with water retention. I go back and forth on wanting to eat less starch. Just don't feel like my blood sugar stays stable on fruits alone. Maybe because they digest so fast? I would love to see a typical day of eating that you do. My son was on the gaps diet years ago and I am thinking of pulling starches out of his diet again. I have stuck with potatoes because of the potassium in them.

When I stay away from grains I get the same quick digestion Angel45. I find complicating the meal a bit with fat aka alfredo sauce or homemade ice cream right after my meal satiated for a every long time.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Do you eat white sugar. I feel I need the potassium that fruit adds to the sugars and tend to save my white sugar for things like a piece of choclat. so take a little extra potassium everyday which has helped me with water retention. I go back and forth on wanting to eat less starch. Just don't feel like my blood sugar stays stable on fruits alone. Maybe because they digest so fast? I would love to see a typical day of eating that you do. My son was on the gaps diet years ago and I am thinking of pulling starches out of his diet again. I have stuck with potatoes because of the potassium in them.

Yeh but if you temps are low, why would you consume fruit, how many people warm up by eating fruit vs a warm potato?

Raw fruit no, warm cooked fruit, as Peat suggests would be very nice, like a baked apple with some butter and chopped macadamias mmmm.....

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Do you eat white sugar. I feel I need the potassium that fruit adds to the sugars and tend to save my white sugar for things like a piece of choclat. so take a little extra potassium everyday which has helped me with water retention. I go back and forth on wanting to eat less starch. Just don't feel like my blood sugar stays stable on fruits alone. Maybe because they digest so fast? I would love to see a typical day of eating that you do. My son was on the gaps diet years ago and I am thinking of pulling starches out of his diet again. I have stuck with potatoes because of the potassium in them.

Do the amylase enzymes work on resistant starch. I always eat things like left over potatoes or potato salad. Kids with mitochondrial disease are often told to eat raw corn starch in orange juice before bed to get them through the night with out having a seizur

I eat some sugar white sugar in things like coffee, homemade ice cream, custard and Mexican Coke occasionally, but I eat raw honey and fruit first if it is available. Here are pics of some of my very satiating starch free meals.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I eat some sugar white sugar in things like coffee, homemade ice cream, custard and Mexican Coke occasionally, but I eat raw honey and fruit first if it is available. Here are pics of some of my very satiating starch free meals.

For the curry I use coconut water and cream rather than the coconut milk, which Ray Peat says should be avoided.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

For the curry I use coconut water and cream rather than the coconut milk, which Ray Peat says should be avoided.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I wish it was so easy. Just select proteins or fats, discard starches and the problem is solved.
I'm rather trying to find a balance.
Ray Peat speaks well of potato, masa harina, oats and he is having humus once in while.
I'm sure if you take away from your ex-mother-in-law pasta and cookies she'll be begging to bring them back in a couple of days

Yep I have a little sprouted garlic hummus once in while too with these parmesan crisps for dipping :)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"Naturally fermented sourdough is less harmful than standard or unleavened wheat products, but any starch tends to stimulate appetite by activating fat synthesis. The same number of calories in fruit would be less fattening, and would keep your blood sugar steadier, improve your sleep and mental energy."

"When starch is well cooked, and eaten with some fat and the essential nutrients, it's safe, except that it's more likely than sugar to produce fat, and isn't as effective for mineral balance."

- Ray Peat

I think this forums neuroticism often allows for foods be analysed outside of its proper context. While wheat on its own may cause issues, there's nobody that's consuming wheat solely by itself. And in the event that it is fattening, it is thankfully saturated fat.

Funny I thought the most interesting part of my post was how grains effect the brain. I didn't imagine so many would be arguing with Ray Peat so hard, that they are good. Very interesting.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

+1. Zero craving for them either.

I am with you guys, once that opioid part of the brain is shut off starches just look like a lot of brown food, making a bowl of fruit much more beautiful :)

 

[OccamzRazer]

Funny I thought the most interesting part of my post was how grains effect the brain. I didn't imagine so many would be arguing with Ray Peat so hard, that they are good. Very interesting.

Yes...I think Ray's quotes, if taken together, make it clear that he views starches as a fallback food.

If you have to eat starches, prepare them properly - as traditional eaters did.

But better to just not eat them! For body comp and brain.