Is Fibre A Menace?

[CLASH]

I agree and found the same as you. In 2014 iv decided to go on a "vegan" diet, mainly consisting of fruit smoothies with oatmeal, whole grain breads, pasta, vegetables etc.. "healthy", sometimes eating up to 50-100 grams of fiber a day not even a year later I get diagnosed with crohns disease, a perianal fistula and intense pain and cramping especially while having a bowel movement. I was in denial it was the diet because everything I read was to eat more fiber, fiber for gut health. My symptoms only got worse developped a bladder fistula, refused medication and surgery although I did take antibiotics which helped.

After years of research iv came to the conclusion that fiber is not so good afterall. I followed a carnivore diet symptoms improved after just a few days. It was amazing for my gut but I had no energy and became depressed. Thankfully I found ray peats work, and stan efferdings vertical diet. This has changed my life. I have found that I cannot tolerate fructose, dairy, gluten and I avoid fiber at all costs. I eat beef, eggs, white rice, salt, liver once a week and fish once a week (low pufa). That is all and I feel amazing, my fistulas are healing, my energy through the roof iv never felt better in all my life. Eventually im gonna introduce some fruit and later hopefully I can tolerate dairy.

I supplement vitamin d3, magnesium, k2 once a week.

Had somewhat of a similar experience. Prior to my experimentations with Keto, IF, Paleo, Peat, and now some principles from all the above, I tried a so called "healthy diet" while I was in highschool. It included white meat only, oats, lentils, lots of greens, vegetables juice, olive oil and whole wheat bread. Wound up having severe digestive issues, dropped down to 145lbs at 6'2 from 185lbs and had my gallbladder taken out at 18. Digestion hasn't been the same since (easily irritated by certain foods) but I've gotten significantly better and solved many issues on a diet of meat, seafood, eggs, saturated/ monounsaturated fat sources, fruit, fruit juice, and certain tolerable veggies. I currently dont eat much starch, but when I did the only starch I tolerate well was white rice and white rice products.

 

[Tarmander]

I think Peat's demonization of Fiber is misplaced. He isn't wrong about the drawbacks, but reading him most don't realize there are indeed pluses

Beans can be very healing, especially if you have liver congestion, but experimentation is always the way anyways

 

[MrCornect]

Had somewhat of a similar experience. Prior to my experimentations with Keto, IF, Paleo, Peat, and now some principles from all the above, I tried a so called "healthy diet" while I was in highschool. It included white meat only, oats, lentils, lots of greens, vegetables juice, olive oil and whole wheat bread. Wound up having severe digestive issues, dropped down to 145lbs at 6'2 from 185lbs and had my gallbladder taken out at 18. Digestion hasn't been the same since (easily irritated by certain foods) but I've gotten significantly better and solved many issues on a diet of meat, seafood, eggs, saturated/ monounsaturated fat sources, fruit, fruit juice, and certain tolerable veggies. I currently dont eat much starch, but when I did the only starch I tolerate well was white rice and white rice products.

Thats great to hear youre doing better. The digestive system takes a long time to heal, you have to stop irritating it by eating easy to digest foods which is what youre doing. If there is any type of damage fructose will be not absorbed properly, some people can tolerate 5,10,20, up to 100 grams but almost everyone even healthy people will get some discomfort eating more than 100 grams a day. This is from experience. I could not tolerate any at all but now able to consume 5-10 grams a day with no problems. Im going to continue upping the low fiber fruit (melon) (orange juice) slowly. I believe if you limit your fructose for now you will feel amazing within a few days.

 

[metabolizm]

I agree and found the same as you. In 2014 iv decided to go on a "vegan" diet, mainly consisting of fruit smoothies with oatmeal, whole grain breads, pasta, vegetables etc.. "healthy", sometimes eating up to 50-100 grams of fiber a day not even a year later I get diagnosed with crohns disease, a perianal fistula and intense pain and cramping especially while having a bowel movement. I was in denial it was the diet because everything I read was to eat more fiber, fiber for gut health. My symptoms only got worse developped a bladder fistula, refused medication and surgery although I did take antibiotics which helped.

After years of research iv came to the conclusion that fiber is not so good afterall. I followed a carnivore diet symptoms improved after just a few days. It was amazing for my gut but I had no energy and became depressed. Thankfully I found ray peats work, and stan efferdings vertical diet. This has changed my life. I have found that I cannot tolerate fructose, dairy, gluten and I avoid fiber at all costs. I eat beef, eggs, white rice, salt, liver once a week and fish once a week (low pufa). That is all and I feel amazing, my fistulas are healing, my energy through the roof iv never felt better in all my life. Eventually im gonna introduce some fruit and later hopefully I can tolerate dairy.

I supplement vitamin d3, magnesium, k2 once a week.

This was really encouraging to hear, and I'm gradually moving towards a diet that is probably very close the Vertical Diet, which you mentioned. I definitely have impaired digestion because my gut is constantly irritated, but it tends to improve when I avoid gluten, fibre, and sadly even dairy and sugar. I think a very low-residue diet is necessary for people like me.

 

[RWilly]

Corn fiber could be helpful in reducing iron stores:

Does Iron Increase the Severity of COVID-19? Can Corn be Part of the Solution?

 

[Lord Cola]

According to Konstantin Monastyrsky (gutsense.org), the primary cause of constipation and colorectal disorders (IBS, colitis, colon cancer, etc.) is dietary fibre.

Ray himself has claimed to eat a "fibre-free diet", but that's not quite right: he eats raw carrots and mushrooms because of their fibre. When he claims to eschew fibre, however, I think he's referring to his disavowal of the mainstream conception of valuable fibre: whole wheat, vegetables, beans, etc. (I think raw carrot is a gentler form of fibre than the likes of whole wheat, and is less likely to produce gas). Just last week, there was an article on the BBC urging people to eat much more fibre, such confidence did they have in its value. I seem to encounter this supposed nutritional axiom just about every day.

But my experience seems to validate the idea that generally avoiding fibre actually improves transit time and digestion quite significantly, in line with the research of Konstantin Monastyrsky. Sure, I'm still getting small amounts of it from whole fruit and vegetables occasionally, as well as sometimes having a carrot salad or mushrooms. But according to conventional standards I'm doing everything wrong.

Has anyone else had the same experience? Does anyone else find a low-fibre, low-residue diet improves their transit time and reduces the likelihood of constipation? (Which in theory should gradually improve all markers of health)?

Nowadays I feel like I can't handle more than a minimal amount of both soluble and insoluble fiber. Carrots and mushrooms feel very irritating for my gut. It's too bad because I do notice some benefits. I don't know how Ray Peat eats them every day without suffering gas or an upset stomach.

 

[nikotrope]

I can’t handle fibers either and I’ve been feeling better since I dropped them (it’s been just a few weeks though). My transit time has improved and my IBS is minimal.

I recently read the book “Carnivore Code” where there are a few studies showing animal products like collagen were feeding good bacteria in the gut. I also read somewhere else that polyphenols was beneficial too.

Yet, the mainstream advice focus solely on fiber...

 

[Lord Cola]

I can’t handle fibers either and I’ve been feeling better since I dropped them (it’s been just a few weeks though). My transit time has improved and my IBS is minimal.

I recently read the book “Carnivore Code” where there are a few studies showing animal products like collagen were feeding good bacteria in the gut. I also read somewhere else that polyphenols was beneficial too.

Yet, the mainstream advice focus solely on fiber...

Have you noticed any symptoms of bacterial overgrowth or estrogen dominance since dropping fibers? I do remember my gut feeling a lot better for a while when I was eating gelatin regularly. But it ended up causing lots of gas later on.

 

[nikotrope]

Have you noticed any symptoms of bacterial overgrowth or estrogen dominance since dropping fibers? I do remember my gut feeling a lot better for a while when I was eating gelatin regularly. But it ended up causing lots of gas later on.

No. I have more energy, I feel warmer, weight is a lot more stable. All my problems aren’t resolved but I haven’t noticed any worsening of anything. Gelatin has always given me gas issues, although gelatinous cuts of meat are okay.

 

[gaze]

Lately I've been viewing fiber as an adaptogenic substance. For some people, the fiber seems to irritate their intestine just enough to the point where it provides a beneficial laxative effect while also strenghening their digestion as the localized serotonin "toughens" up their intestine, making them less sensitive to foods because their intestine has become trained to handle it with that slight serotonin production.

For others, the slight irritation, instead of providing a laxative effect and a stronger adaptive intestine, causes horrible gas and constipation, and the localized serotonin thats produced gets into their blood and effects their overall well being, instead of staying localized in the intestine.

Basically some people can beneficially adapt to the irritation making their intestine stronger in the long run because their intestine is properly trained to handle irritating things, while for others they cant adapt and the localized irritation does not strengthen the intestine rather makes it weak and permeable.

With that being said,, I think Ray is under the impression that even in people with healthy digestive systems, localized serotonin from irritating fibers has negative effects on ones personality (i.e. making them more rigid and angry) that are more subtle so he would argue against fiber even if it doesn't bother someones gut.

 

[metabolizm]

Lately I've been viewing fiber as an adaptogenic substance. For some people, the fiber seems to irritate their intestine just enough to the point where it provides a beneficial laxative effect while also strenghening their digestion as the localized serotonin "toughens" up their intestine, making them less sensitive to foods because their intestine has become trained to handle it with that slight serotonin production.

For others, the slight irritation, instead of providing a laxative effect and a stronger adaptive intestine, causes horrible gas and constipation, and the localized serotonin thats produced gets into their blood and effects their overall well being, instead of staying localized in the intestine.

Basically some people can beneficially adapt to the irritation making their intestine stronger in the long run because their intestine is properly trained to handle irritating things, while for others they cant adapt and the localized irritation does not strengthen the intestine rather makes it weak and permeable.

With that being said,, I think Ray is under the impression that even in people with healthy digestive systems, localized serotonin from irritating fibers has negative effects on ones personality (i.e. making them more rigid and angry) that are more subtle so he would argue against fiber even if it doesn't bother someones gut.

I think the intestine adapts to most things. When I go really low fibre, I tend to get constipated for a few days, but then things improve. But when I reintroduce fibre, even something like white bread, it's a shock to the system and I get constipated again for a few days. Consistency is best! I've definitely felt best when my fibre intake is consistently low (not zero though), and I've adapted to that. I think it speeds up transit time and reduces bulk in just the right way.

 

[youngsinatra]

If I eliminate all fiber I get really watery stool. I need some fiber for some bulk.

Lately I‘ve been craving raw apples, cooked dishes with onions and so on and it seems like the do good to my digestion. Maybe just go with your GUT feelings