John McDougall Diet? (starch Solution)

[theLaw]

And you resolved blood sugar issues by?

The answer is literally written right next to it......

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I was specifically referring to those who post here and continue to have health issues while keeping starch in their diet, so you support my argument.

Maybe they have healthy digestion though so in that case it wouldn't be starch.

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[theLaw]

Maybe they have healthy digestion though so in that case it wouldn't be starch.

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Then there's no harm in them removing it for a short period (30 days) to see if their health improves.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Then there's no harm in them removing it for a short period (30 days) to see if their health improves.

Yea but that's not the Peaty argument in the context of digestion. Maybe they would do worse without starch, like many have also reported. You act as though everyone reports one way. Fruit as the majority of carbohydrate doesn't satiate and provide blood glucose balance like starch for many and vice versa. You act as though there could be nothing else the person is doing that's causing problems. Whether it's low fat lactose, fruit or starch they have to find a source or else this:

 

[Mukem]

Can't help but notice how at 81 Peat looks so much more youthful than so many younger health 'gurus'. I'm not referring to superficial things like hair colour or skin tone; there's something about how he holds himself and his posture that makes him appear younger, compared to others who frankly look very frail and old despite being chronologically younger.

It's like you're desperately trying to find something youthful about him. His voice pattern, social awkwardness and looks do not emanate vitality imo.

 

[theLaw]

Maybe they would do worse without starch, like many have also reported. You act as though everyone reports one way.

Never claimed that "everyone reports one way", but instead made an observation that many who continue to have health issues, also include starch in their diet, which Peat has warned about (refer to your own video).

Undigested starch can play a huge role in the production of endotoxin and sub-optimal liver function, which can lead to a whole host of health issues, so removing starch would be a valuable self-experiment.

You clearly want me to take a hard-stance that I'm simply not taking here, so I'll leave you to it. Cheers!

 

[Reaper242xx]

Can't help but notice how at 81 Peat looks so much more youthful than so many younger health 'gurus'. I'm not referring to superficial things like hair colour or skin tone; there's something about how he holds himself and his posture that makes him appear younger, compared to others who frankly look very frail and old despite being chronologically younger.

I personally wouldn't use the word youthful, but he does appear to be a very healthy senior.

 

[jyb]

He looks good for a 70 years old. Not completely out of the ordinary though, many (most?) 70 year olds I know got there by following either no particular diet or the total opposite as what JMcD recommends.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

What the heck do you no starch-folks eat?? I don't have the money for liters of quality juice a day, and even if I did I sure as heck don't crave it that much. I'd want to eat something like cooked beets, turnips, carrots and other low starch high sugar veggies much more than just juice/fruit but one would have to eat loads to get enough calories. It seems like we were made to eat starch.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I'd want to eat something like cooked beets, turnips, carrots and other low starch high sugar veggies

Those things are lower starch and higher simple sugar but there's a paradox because they end up not providing as much sugar as the starchy ones. Starch converts to simple sugar and the starchy ones are packed with more net sugar energy. It's impossible to eat enough of cooked beets, cooked carrots and cooked turnips because you'd get so full from the fiber and you would need more sugar calories from the more dense starchy ones like potatoes, squash etc. Filling up on cooked beets, cooked carrots and cooked turnips can work great for a person who's sedentary and has a good amount of body fat to lose because that will allow them to burn off some body fat. There's also the fructose factor. Some don't do well with fructose as their main source, keyword main, of carbohydrate.

 

[Reaper242xx]

What the heck do you no starch-folks eat?? I don't have the money for liters of quality juice a day, and even if I did I sure as heck don't crave it that much. I'd want to eat something like cooked beets, turnips, carrots and other low starch high sugar veggies much more than just juice/fruit but one would have to eat loads to get enough calories. It seems like we were made to eat starch.

Peat actually recommends whole ripe fruits for people with health thyroids. The juices are useful for people who have a hard time converting T4 into T3, the rapid sugar absorption from no fiber helps keep that T3 elevated. Diary is also a huge factor here as well. Lactose is a slow burning sugar, which is also useful for sustaining thyroid hormone. OJ mixed with collagen protein is one of my favs, it's a good way to get protein and carbohydrate without any fat. Also again, it's important to distinguish no starch from occasional starch. I occasionally eat homemade baked french fries in coconut oil. White rice cooked in bone broth is good too. But this is not needed, I could suffice myself on ripe fruits, juices, lactose, and raw sugar cane.

 

[theLaw]

Peat actually recommends whole ripe fruits for people with health thyroids. The juices are useful for people who have a hard time converting T4 into T3, the rapid sugar absorption from no fiber helps keep that T3 elevated. Diary is also a huge factor here as well. Lactose is a slow burning sugar, which is also useful for sustaining thyroid hormone. OJ mixed with collagen protein is one of my favs, it's a good way to get protein and carbohydrate without any fat. Also again, it's important to distinguish no starch from occasional starch. I occasionally eat homemade baked french fries in coconut oil. White rice cooked in bone broth is good too. But this is not needed, I could suffice myself on ripe fruits, juices, lactose, and raw sugar cane.

 

[Sobieski]

It's like you're desperately trying to find something youthful about him. His voice pattern, social awkwardness and looks do not emanate vitality imo.

Not really, just making some observations. It's like you're desperately trying to find something to start an argument about.

 

[Reaper242xx]

That looks great. I might have to get some great lakes gelatin, I've been using hydrolyzed collagen.

 

[theLaw]

That looks great. I might have to get some great lakes gelatin, I've been using hydrolyzed collagen.

Roughly the same price :

 

[Wagner83]

My point in the earlier post was for those who continue to have health issues, especially related to digestion, it's hard to justify eating starch when Ray warns against it, and yet so many people just seem resigned to keep it as a part of their diet.

There are many of Ray's suggestions that I found intensely difficult until some new info helped me understand the entire process more clearly. Then it was fairly easy to execute.

Liquids are a prime example. I've never felt worse on any diet, than when I was trying initially to ingest large amounts of liquids. However, after improving my blood sugar issues, adding caffeine and thyroid, and using AC/carrots, I can now easily take in nearly a gallon of liquid per day provided that I have enough salt.

With regards to the "need" for starch, I think it's primarily driven by three issues:

1. Need for calorically dense food

2. Unhealthy gut bacteria

3. Need for more salt - starch is a perfect salt delivery method

Possible solutions:

1. 1T/hr of sugar/fructose after blood sugar issues are resolved (Taurine + OJ every 4hrs worked for me)

2. AC/carrot salad

3. Salted milk

Myself I don't have any reason to believe starch is as bad as Ray says, I look at the evidence of those around here and like I pointed before, I see examples of people doing better with starch. It doesn't mean this is ideal but the issues I had without starch felt very much physical/organ related. A lot of people have issues with dairy, you'll even fnd those who have issues with OJ (jamesIV, mittir etc..). Personnally I had big problems with three types of diets: digestive issues (and many more, hair loss, feeling like crap) on intermittent fasting, lots of raw fibers (big salads), insufficient calories, nerve issues and felt like crap on whole grains, salmon, fresh cream and finally what I previously mentioned on milk + Oj + small amounts of rice for dinner, eggs, cheese, chocolate mousse, carrott salad etc.. I do not think my issues were solely related to blood sugar levels but could be wrong. In any case they resolved upon discontinuing fructose, dairy and introducing starch again. Since then I have experienced quite few times feeling like total crap after too much fibers from fruits. It could have been a coincidence since I did not repeat the experiment enough.

Taurine (as in redbull) helps with digestion in my experience. Now I do some freshly pressed OJ with my meals (see the study on OJ alongside a high fat high carb meal) and am fine although I use some supplements (estroban doses of fat solubles and tribulus atm).

 

[Reaper242xx]

Roughly the same price :

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Peater Piper]

I tried to quit starch and ended up with pretty frightening issues I had not experienced before and which went away when I resumed eating starch. Raypeatclips and Eire24 reported feeling like crap without starch and improved their health by eating it. Metabolic Advantage / Fat Free / Foods / Athlete
To Haidut : What Do You Usually Eat In A Day?

Count me among those who failed on a high sugar (primarily fruit), low starch diet. Several attempts caused headaches, hyperglycemia, and a lack of energy. I don't think sugar in itself is bad, it's clear I have unresolved health issues that sugar exacerbates, but I'd say the exact same thing about someone who develops negative symptoms shortly after eating starch. A healthy person would likely thrive on either substrate, so if you struggle with one then you're likely not as healthy as you believe. Something I disagree with is that sugar/fructose is a benign substance that won't lead to dysbiosis or overgrowth. I think it may be a bigger problem in certain types of SIBO than starch or fiber.

 

[theLaw]

Myself I don't have any reason to believe starch is as bad as Ray says, I look at the evidence of those around here and like I pointed before, I see examples of people doing better with starch. It doesn't mean this is ideal but the issues I had without starch felt very much physical/organ related. A lot of people have issues with dairy, you'll even fnd those who have issues with OJ (jamesIV, mittir etc..). Personnally I had big problems with three types of diets: digestive issues (and many more, hair loss, feeling like crap) on intermittent fasting, lots of raw fibers (big salads), insufficient calories, nerve issues and felt like crap on whole grains, salmon, fresh cream and finally what I previously mentioned on milk + Oj + small amounts of rice for dinner, eggs, cheese, chocolate mousse, carrott salad etc.. I do not think my issues were solely related to blood sugar levels but could be wrong. In any case they resolved upon discontinuing fructose, dairy and introducing starch again. Since then I have experienced quite few times feeling like total crap after too much fibers from fruits. It could have been a coincidence since I did not repeat the experiment enough.

Taurine (as in redbull) helps with digestion in my experience. Now I do some freshly pressed OJ with my meals (see the study on OJ alongside a high fat high carb meal) and am fine although I use some supplements (estroban doses of fat solubles and tribulus atm).

The only way to know for sure would be through rigorous lab testing, but most here don't have those done, so it's largely a guessing game.

I too had issues with Dairy and even OJ when I first started, along with a host of other issues from under-eating, but I resolved them over two years of constant testing using info from these boards. I can currently drink 1/2 gallon of both OJ and milk each day without issues.

However, during that time, I never said that ______ doesn't work for me, but instead assumed that I was missing a key piece of info, which so far has been true in every case (the devil is in the dose).

I do think that if a person has access to sufficient healthy food and can't go 30 days without starch, then there is a larger health issue at play which probably needs to be addressed instead of the starch.

***It should also be noted that I supplement with thyroid and caffeine, so not sure how I would deal with large amounts of liquids without them***

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I do think that if a person has access to sufficient healthy food and can't go 30 days without starch, then there is a larger health issue at play which probably needs to be addressed instead of the starch.

I think that's an odd statement. As that Peat quotes states, you need a few hundred grams of carbohydrate daily. "Healthy food" is vague and subjective. Claiming that something that humans have salivary and pancreatic enzymes for more than any other animal is "bad" ignores basic physiology and also anthropology.