Ray himself consumes 1600 calories of sugar per day, with 0 white sugar

[Melk]

One thing I think people don't appreciate is how little meat you'll crave on a dairy-fruit diet. I almost lost my meat craving when eating this way, with my only "meat" being shrimp at dinnertime, occasionally some chicken. Maybe twice a month beef, and I wasn't even really craving it, I just wanted to taste it again.

Gotta say I totally disagree, for me. No amount of carbs and milk hits the same as a big pile of meat. Milk is so convenient as a protein source, but I feel deprived on anything much less than a pound of meat per day. Everything else feels like compliments and condiments, and I feel like I'm 'fasting' until I get my next meat meal lol.

 

[Melk]

4-500 is easy. 4-500 from Milk and OJ alone is harder, which is what peat does. although he does use OJ concentrate, so he may be getting that amount with much less liquid. It can be done with liquid too, but its easier done by grazing and snacking which some dont like or have time to do.

I feel you.
That's so much fluid. Like 2L milk is about as much as I want to drink. If white sugar is not ideal, maybe I'll have to change things up, but I f#&*ing LOVE milk with sugar in it, double bonus points if fortified with some extra casein.

What do you make of that? Like if I make the above drink, I'm getting signals of "omg this is the most delicious and desirable thing we have ever encountered, replace your blood with this, drink it all"
Surely that means I'm doing something my body is liking, or is there a less favourable interpretation?

 

[canadianboymike]

Yes, frequently—every 1–3 months for over a decade now. My numbers look their best on a low-fat fruitarian diet and now a lacto-fruit diet (400+ g of carbs from skimmed goat milk, melon and grape juices, sukkari dates, freeze-dried mango, dragon fruit and custard apple, honey and Thai coconut water) and their worst on a traditional vegetarian diet abundant in grains and legumes and heavy meat diets (WAPF and both raw and cooked dairy-free carnivore).

Yes, frequently—every 1–3 months for over a decade now. My numbers look their best on a low-fat fruitarian diet and now a lacto-fruit diet (400+ g of carbs from skimmed goat milk, melon and grape juices, sukkari dates, freeze-dried mango, dragon fruit and custard apple, honey and Thai coconut water) and their worst on a traditional vegetarian diet abundant in grains and legumes and heavy meat diets (WAPF and both raw and cooked dairy-free carnivore).

Do you add much sugar to this or is it strictly fruit? I like this style of eating a lot but I find it hard to get enough calories from this and I end up having tons of cravings in the evening.

 

[Advocate2021]

Am very curious if anyone eating this way has had blood work done

I have- best blood work ever last i got it January after 15 years of eating tons of sugar- mostly fruit but also other forms.

 

[Advocate2021]

I have- best blood work ever last i got it January after 15 years of eating tons of sugar- mostly fruit but also other forms.

I have a book proposal for a book called the Sugar Redemption- the sugar myths started with politics and economics- complete fraud much analogous to what has happened in this insane covid fraud era

 

[Jennifer]

Do you add much sugar to this or is it strictly fruit? I like this style of eating a lot but I find it hard to get enough calories from this and I end up having tons of cravings in the evening.

Is your diet low in fat, Mike? When I wrote that quote, it was just the sugars from milk, fruit, honey and coconut water, but I’ve since decreased my carbs and increased my fats substantially. In order to get enough calories, I was spending two hours a day juicing the majority of my fruit so I was consuming a lot of liquid. My diet was also very low in fat and after years of eating that way, I found that I was never satiated, even with 3000+ calories a day, and I’m small—5’1”/45 kg. Now I average roughly 40% carbs, 30–35% fat and 25–30% protein and feel satisfied after meals, and I no longer go to bed hungry. My health improved dramatically, too.

 

[ExCarnivore]

Gotta say I totally disagree, for me. No amount of carbs and milk hits the same as a big pile of meat. Milk is so convenient as a protein source, but I feel deprived on anything much less than a pound of meat per day. Everything else feels like compliments and condiments, and I feel like I'm 'fasting' until I get my next meat meal lol.

I completely agree with this. I'm sure part of this is how I frame a meal since I'm coming to this from a carnivore diet, but when I've tried to have meals where all of the protein comes from milk, it just seems like something is missing.

 

[canadianboymike]

Is your diet low in fat, Mike? When I wrote that quote, it was just the sugars from milk, fruit, honey and coconut water, but I’ve since decreased my carbs and increased my fats substantially. In order to get enough calories, I was spending two hours a day juicing the majority of my fruit so I was consuming a lot of liquid. My diet was also very low in fat and after years of eating that way, I found that I was never satiated, even with 3000+ calories a day, and I’m small—5’1”/45 kg. Now I average roughly 40% carbs, 30–35% fat and 25–30% protein and feel satisfied after meals, and I no longer go to bed hungry. My health improved dramatically, too.

Hey thanks for the response! Yea I would say I’m pretty low on fat considering how much I eat. If I had to guess the macros I would be 65-70% carbs. 15-20 protein and 15-20 fat. I’ve tried upping the fats but it’s hard to find that balance for me. If I’m too low on the carbs my mood and happiness tanks noticeably. Maybe I’ll try adding in a small amount of extra fats to see.

 

[Jennifer]

You’re welcome, @canadianboymike. :) I understand. At one point, I was up to 80% carbs trying to keep my mood up. It sounds like your situation is different from mine. My low mood was accompanied by anxiety. I was running on stress hormones due to poor thyroid function and my high-carb, low-fat diet was causing hypoglycemic episodes. I would feel euphoric after having a bolus of carbs, which felt amazing, but then my mood would tank and I would be anxious not long after, and ravenous for more carbs. Within the first day of increasing my fat intake, I had this calm come over me. I just felt really relaxed and satisfied. There wasn’t that intense euphoric feeling followed by doom and gloom anxiety, just this sense of peace. Anyhow, I hope you’re able to find that sweet spot with your diet soon. :)

 

[canadianboymike]

You’re welcome, @canadianboymike. :) I understand. At one point, I was up to 80% carbs trying to keep my mood up. It sounds like your situation is different from mine. My low mood was accompanied by anxiety. I was running on stress hormones due to poor thyroid function and my high-carb, low-fat diet was causing hypoglycemic episodes. I would feel euphoric after having a bolus of carbs, which felt amazing, but then my mood would tank and I would be anxious not long after, and ravenous for more carbs. Within the first day of increasing my fat intake, I had this calm come over me. I just felt really relaxed and satisfied. There wasn’t that intense euphoric feeling followed by doom and gloom anxiety, just this sense of peace. Anyhow, I hope you’re able to find that sweet spot with your diet soon. :)

Thanks for your experience. It may be a similar issue with me. If my blood sugar was more stable maybe I wouldn’t be as hungry perhaps. But it just has to be that sweet spot like you said.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Guys, get bags of frozen fruit.

At our Aldo, they have bags of frozen mango chunks, bags of "tropical mix" (papaya, pineapple, mango, and--the well known tropical fruit--strawberries). A bag of mango chunks is 170 calories, with 72 carbs.

Easy recipe to try: put a tablespoon or 2 of gelatin in a cup (or 2) of skim milk, "bloom" gelatin for 30 secs, then cook in microwave for 90 secs, then add your cold mango chunks. The cold mango chunks will semi-gel the skim milk and gelatin mixture. Add some yogurt or ricotta if you want more fat. But it's an easy high protein high fruit carb meal.

That’s how I get a lot of fruit in…from fruit smoothies with milk. I do mangos, blueberries, oranges…lots of different fruits. I think sugar from MOSTLY fruit is the way to go. But also from raw honey, choclate syrup, things like that.

Sugar from fruit seems the healthiest to me.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Is your diet low in fat, Mike? When I wrote that quote, it was just the sugars from milk, fruit, honey and coconut water, but I’ve since decreased my carbs and increased my fats substantially. In order to get enough calories, I was spending two hours a day juicing the majority of my fruit so I was consuming a lot of liquid. My diet was also very low in fat and after years of eating that way, I found that I was never satiated, even with 3000+ calories a day, and I’m small—5’1”/45 kg. Now I average roughly 40% carbs, 30–35% fat and 25–30% protein and feel satisfied after meals, and I no longer go to bed hungry. My health improved dramatically, too.

Yeah, you need the saturated fat to keep you satisfied. That’s why I do whole grass fed milk. Plus butter. Some coconut oil but not doing it all the time. Life would be very boring without butter.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks for your experience. It may be a similar issue with me. If my blood sugar was more stable maybe I wouldn’t be as hungry perhaps. But it just has to be that sweet spot like you said.

My pleasure. :)

Yeah, you need the saturated fat to keep you satisfied. That’s why I do whole grass fed milk. Plus butter. Some coconut oil but not doing it all the time. Life would be very boring without butter.

I agree. Life is so much better with butter. And ice cream. I skim off some of the cream from my raw milk and use it to make blender ice cream. I have it multiple times a day. It’s my superfood supplement. lol

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

My pleasure. :)



I agree. Life is so much better with butter. And ice cream. I skim off some of the cream from my raw milk and use it to make blender ice cream. I have it multiple times a day. It’s my superfood supplement. lol

That sounds super delicious!

 

[Advocate2021]

True needing fat; but i will share that since i have switched over to some low fat dairy, i have definitely attained more of the body aesthetic I desire. My diet is heavy on dairy but i cant eat every meal regular fat dairy- too many calories and i gain weight. I do eat full fat dairy every day but i rotate with low fat as well and its made a huge difference- at 52 i am in the best shape of my life. Dr Peat recommends 1% milk actually because of the amount he recommends to drink and a glass and a half with a few grams of added sugar and protein like collagen peptides in the perfect small meal for me with the right amount of fat. The draw back is very hard to find a lowfat cheese not made with allergenic vegetarian enzymes and raw milk does not come in 1 percent but fat can be skimmed off so maybe i should try to get some and do that but very expensive most likely considering the amount of milk i drink. Ive been doing Daisy lo fat cottage cheese and that seems to be good.

 

[Advocate2021]

And even though butter is wonderful both health and taste wise, again i have learned that to attain the body aesthetic i want (and i work my **** off for it - been training for over 30 years)i have to pick and choose. I almost use exclusively hydrogenated coconut oil for cooking and dont really keep butter on hand I feel i get enough fat from my full fat cheeses and eggs and chocolate indulgences and the butter would be too much- but i have asked for it when i go out since most places have it and i dont want their oil. Also, I eat liver once every couple of weeks, sometimes less as have been doing it for 15 years now and dont feel i need once per week anymore, and have found that cutting out red meat otherwise works best for me. I eat applegate farms white sliced turkey- says 0 fat per serving so im not worried about the negligible amount of pufa as i eat no other pufa really. this too has made a huge difference in my aesthetic and my health is excellent.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

True needing fat; but i will share that since i have switched over to some low fat dairy, i have definitely attained more of the body aesthetic I desire. My diet is heavy on dairy but i cant eat every meal regular fat dairy- too many calories and i gain weight. I do eat full fat dairy every day but i rotate with low fat as well and its made a huge difference- at 52 i am in the best shape of my life. Dr Peat recommends 1% milk actually because of the amount he recommends to drink and a glass and a half with a few grams of added sugar and protein like collagen peptides in the perfect small meal for me with the right amount of fat. The draw back is very hard to find a lowfat cheese not made with allergenic vegetarian enzymes and raw milk does not come in 1 percent but fat can be skimmed off so maybe i should try to get some and do that but very expensive most likely considering the amount of milk i drink. Ive been doing Daisy lo fat cottage cheese and that seems to be good.

That’s true. I rotate my food as well. I can’t eat the same things everyday- I like to change it up….eat some things one day, other things another day. Switching back and forth between whole grass milk and 1 % is something I do. If I’m eating more fat on one day, I’ll have the 1% milk. But milk has been a staple for me now. I never really drank milk- now I love it.

As you were saying, if you eat full fat dairy, and butter and and ice cream and so forth, that is too much fat in one day. You’ll definitely gain weight.

I don’t eat oranges every day either. Or other fruits. Variety is important I think, to get the nutrients you need.

One thing I just won’t do is go back to starving myself. That really did a number on my health.

 

[Advocate2021]

That’s true. I rotate my food as well. I can’t eat the same things everyday- I like to change it up….eat some things one day, other things another day. Switching back and forth between whole grass milk and 1 % is something I do. If I’m eating more fat on one day, I’ll have the 1% milk. But milk has been a staple for me now. I never really drank milk- now I love it.

As you were saying, if you eat full fat dairy, and butter and and ice cream and so forth, that is too much fat in one day. You’ll definitely gain weight.

I don’t eat oranges every day either. Or other fruits. Variety is important I think, to get the nutrients you need.

One thing I just won’t do is go back to starving myself. That really did a number on my health.

for sure, no starving ever. I eat about 2200 calories per day and maintain myself that way. and i listen to my body- if ive had a particularly active day and workout i might be hungrier and could go above that .

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

And even though butter is wonderful both health and taste wise, again i have learned that to attain the body aesthetic i want (and i work my **** off for it - been training for over 30 years)i have to pick and choose. I almost use exclusively hydrogenated coconut oil for cooking and dont really keep butter on hand I feel i get enough fat from my full fat cheeses and eggs and chocolate indulgences and the butter would be too much- but i have asked for it when i go out since most places have it and i dont want their oil. Also, I eat liver once every couple of weeks, sometimes less as have been doing it for 15 years now and dont feel i need once per week anymore, and have found that cutting out red meat otherwise works best for me. I eat applegate farms white sliced turkey- says 0 fat per serving so im not worried about the negligible amount of pufa as i eat no other pufa really. this too has made a huge difference in my aesthetic and my health is excellent.

Yes, I think the emphasis is replacing the bad pufa fats with good saturated fats. Just don’t eat too much of the saturated fat.

 

[Jennifer]

True needing fat; but i will share that since i have switched over to some low fat dairy, i have definitely attained more of the body aesthetic I desire. My diet is heavy on dairy but i cant eat every meal regular fat dairy- too many calories and i gain weight. I do eat full fat dairy every day but i rotate with low fat as well and its made a huge difference- at 52 i am in the best shape of my life. Dr Peat recommends 1% milk actually because of the amount he recommends to drink and a glass and a half with a few grams of added sugar and protein like collagen peptides in the perfect small meal for me with the right amount of fat. The draw back is very hard to find a lowfat cheese not made with allergenic vegetarian enzymes and raw milk does not come in 1 percent but fat can be skimmed off so maybe i should try to get some and do that but very expensive most likely considering the amount of milk i drink. Ive been doing Daisy lo fat cottage cheese and that seems to be good.

And even though butter is wonderful both health and taste wise, again i have learned that to attain the body aesthetic i want (and i work my **** off for it - been training for over 30 years)i have to pick and choose. I almost use exclusively hydrogenated coconut oil for cooking and dont really keep butter on hand I feel i get enough fat from my full fat cheeses and eggs and chocolate indulgences and the butter would be too much- but i have asked for it when i go out since most places have it and i dont want their oil. Also, I eat liver once every couple of weeks, sometimes less as have been doing it for 15 years now and dont feel i need once per week anymore, and have found that cutting out red meat otherwise works best for me. I eat applegate farms white sliced turkey- says 0 fat per serving so im not worried about the negligible amount of pufa as i eat no other pufa really. this too has made a huge difference in my aesthetic and my health is excellent.

I can understand that. Ray told me he recommends 1%, but my body responds better to having more dairy fat in my diet. I drink at least 2 L of milk daily, but the rest of my diet is mostly fresh fruit so lower in calories and I need at least 2500 to keep my weight up. I followed a high-carb, low-fat, 100% plant-based diet for years and half my spine collapsed (in my 20s) due to osteoporosis and within a year of switching to a high-fat, dairy-based diet, my z-score (bone density) had increased from -6.7 to -3.6. Just for reference, -3.2 is considered osteopenia and -3.5 is osteoporosis.

The only macro that seems to affect my body composition regardless of caloric intake is protein. 2500+ calories on a high-carb, low-protein, plant-based diet and my muscles atrophied (I was down to 67 lb/30 kg) and 2500+ calories on a high-carb, higher-protein, animal-based diet and I maintain my muscle mass (99 lb/45 kg). I used to be an avid hiker prior to fracturing, and since increasing my fat intake this past January, I’m finally able to train so I can hopefully climb mountains again. Before that, the most I could do was practice dance, which was good since it’s my other favorite form of exercise, but I really want to get up a mountain at least one last time to do a memorial hike.