Has Ray turned vegan? How is he doing?

[FrankMa]

Some of this and other things were discussed in an earlier thread.

Height Is Dependent On Diet Quality, Not Genes

I posted a few threads in the past demonstrating that gene are likely not the main driver of height, despite the mainstream dogma vehement claiming to the contrary. Dutch People Gained 20cm Of Height In Just 150 Years Protein Quality, Not Genes, Determine Male Height Intelligence and height...

raypeatforum.com

Thanks.
So the just basically just don`t get enough animal protein?
That simple?

 

[David PS]

Thanks.
So the just basically just don`t get enough animal protein?
That simple?

Yes. My observation is that it is especially important during the formative years. My cousins on my father's side of the family grew up on the farm. They thought that it was weird that my mother enouraged her kids to drink milk with each meal. Unsurprisingly, the kids in my mother's family are much taller than my cousins,

Bone is a living structure and it is contantly being broken down and rebuilt. This happens simultaneouly and adequate protein is needed to maintain height and avoid bone fragility in adults.

 

[FrankMa]

Yes. My observation is that it is especially important during the formative years. My cousins on my father's side of the family grew up on the farm. They thought that it was weird that my mother enouraged her kids to drink milk with each meal. Unsurprisingly, the kids in my mother's family are much taller than my cousins,

Bone is a living structure and it is contantly being broken down and rebuilt. This happens simultaneouly and adequate protein is needed to maintain height and avoid bone fragility in adults.

That would imply that even as a grown up you theoretically could grow taller given you supply the necessary co-factors, wouldn`t it?

 

[TradClare]

I think the earlier puberty that comes with lots of calories and fats can stunt growth somewhat, though. I grew up lowfat vegan, didn't menstruate until 17, and am the tallest in my family at 5'10". I can't imagine drinking milk would have made me taller, but if so, I'm glad I didn't have it! I really think the girls today developing at age 9 are not going to reach their potential. I knew some very short boys growing up also who already has muscles and deep voices in middle school so maybe there's a balance - you want enough nourishment to maximize growth but delaying puberty might be good for height as well keeping growth plates going

 

[David PS]

That would imply that even as a grown up you theoretically could grow taller given you supply the necessary co-factors, wouldn`t it?

I did not intend to imply that. I do not have background in this stuff. I think that after puberty the bones do not lengthen. The protein is needed to prevent shrinkage and maintain bone mass.

 

[David PS]

I think the earlier puberty that comes with lots of calories and fats can stunt growth somewhat, though. I grew up lowfat vegan, didn't menstruate until 17, and am the tallest in my family at 5'10". I can't imagine drinking milk would have made me taller, but if so, I'm glad I didn't have it! I really think the girls today developing at age 9 are not going to reach their potential. I knew some very short boys growing up also who already has muscles and deep voices in middle school so maybe there's a balance - you want enough nourishment to maximize growth but delaying puberty might be good for height as well keeping growth plates going

Yes I agree. I think issue of lack of height in todays kids has more to do with eating too much estrogenic food and not lack of protein. Girls are maturing too soon in life due to the exogenous estrogen from the food that they. Even the formerly safe foods like chicken often contain much more estrogen than they did when I was growing up in middle school.

When was in 6-7th grade, the girls were generally taller than the boys. By the time everyone was older and in 9-10th grade, the situation was reversed.
.

 

[frannybananny]

I myself from time to time tried to eat vegetables because theres that little man in my mind who is telling me "eat your veggies"
but every time I tried I was not as alive as with fruit, milk, meat.
Which interview are you referring to?

I was referring to the 8/15/22 interview.

 

[frannybananny]

I did not intend to imply that. I do not have background in this stuff. I think that after puberty the bones do not lengthen. The protein is needed to prevent shrinkage and maintain bone mass.

Well, I have to disagree with you there about bones not lengthening after puberty. My husband who has worked physically very hard throughout his life, even as a small child of 4 years due to a controlling father, pick axe work, hauling dirt and rocks in wheelbarrows, then built his own 46' boat starting at the age of 21...has always had very thick wrists, huge hands and great strength overall. He has always had the unquenchable urge to work hard or be doing something and when I met him he was 6'1 and 1/2".. that was when he was 22 and a half. As the years went on he noticed he needed bigger shoe sizes and seemed to be growing taller in his 30's and 40's even though girth remained the same. He is now 6'3" in height, strong as a bull with the same 34" waist and huge shoulders and arms at 70 years old. He strives to do physical work everyday, we sail almost every weekend in high seas and wind and he mans the new 47' Catalina boat singlehandedly. It ain't easy hauling up sails and then pulling in the jib and working all the lines (ropes).

So to sum up, I think that you can grow after puberty if you use your body and stress it somewhat. Me, my feet have grown somewhat after pregnancy but I attribute that to being barefoot most of the time. I have not shrunk much for an old lady...maybe only half an inch but I am not very physically active, no working out, just daily chores of housecleaning and gardening.

 

[FrankMa]

Well, I have to disagree with you there about bones not lengthening after puberty. My husband who has worked physically very hard throughout his life, even as a small child of 4 years due to a controlling father, pick axe work, hauling dirt and rocks in wheelbarrows, then built his own 46' boat starting at the age of 21...has always had very thick wrists, huge hands and great strength overall. He has always had the unquenchable urge to work hard or be doing something and when I met him he was 6'1 and 1/2".. that was when he was 22 and a half. As the years went on he noticed he needed bigger shoe sizes and seemed to be growing taller in his 30's and 40's even though girth remained the same. He is now 6'3" in height, strong as a bull with the same 34" waist and huge shoulders and arms at 70 years old. He strives to do physical work everyday, we sail almost every weekend in high seas and wind and he mans the new 47' Catalina boat singlehandedly. It ain't easy hauling up sails and then pulling in the jib and working all the lines (ropes).

So to sum up, I think that you can grow after puberty if you use your body and stress it somewhat. Me, my feet have grown somewhat after pregnancy but I attribute that to being barefoot most of the time. I have not shrunk much for an old lady...maybe only half an inch but I am not very physically active, no working out, just daily chores of housecleaning and gardening.

Quite interesting.
What excatly led to him growing taller to 6"3? Since he worked physically hard his whole life there may have been some other factors?
What is your nutrition like?

 

[David PS]

Well, I have to disagree with you there about bones not lengthening after puberty. My husband who has worked physically very hard throughout his life, even as a small child of 4 years due to a controlling father, pick axe work, hauling dirt and rocks in wheelbarrows, then built his own 46' boat starting at the age of 21...has always had very thick wrists, huge hands and great strength overall. He has always had the unquenchable urge to work hard or be doing something and when I met him he was 6'1 and 1/2".. that was when he was 22 and a half. As the years went on he noticed he needed bigger shoe sizes and seemed to be growing taller in his 30's and 40's even though girth remained the same. He is now 6'3" in height, strong as a bull with the same 34" waist and huge shoulders and arms at 70 years old. He strives to do physical work everyday, we sail almost every weekend in high seas and wind and he mans the new 47' Catalina boat singlehandedly. It ain't easy hauling up sails and then pulling in the jib and working all the lines (ropes).

So to sum up, I think that you can grow after puberty if you use your body and stress it somewhat. Me, my feet have grown somewhat after pregnancy but I attribute that to being barefoot most of the time. I have not shrunk much for an old lady...maybe only half an inch but I am not very physically active, no working out, just daily chores of housecleaning and gardening.

Thank you.

 

[frannybananny]

Quite interesting.
What excatly led to him growing taller to 6"3? Since he worked physically hard his whole life there may have been some other factors?
What is your nutrition like?

Hard physical work made him grow taller in my opinion. He has built several large houses and only recently subs some of the work out but is always involved. We have always eaten a "normal" diet...not much fast food... eggs, steak, hamburgers, steamed veggies, salad, milk, and he drinks alot of OJ with his tequila... lol. He loves whole milk and half and half, cheese.

 

[lvysaur]

So dwarfism ist correlated with low protein intake?

Dwarfism is not short height. And I don't think that low ancestral/evolutionary protein will cause short height--I think it will select for phenotypes that can grow tall without high protein. There are too many tall vegetarians, and even some experiments show vegetarian children growing taller than meat-eaters. Meat is only a factor when it is deprived from a specific body/gene type.

But if you have a protein-loving phenotype, then lower protein will probably make your individual self shorter, yes. Which is one of the main reasons behind short heights in the 3rd world (along with lower general calories, lower calcium, dirty water, and missing out on epigenetic momentum). The tall individuals from these countries are probably those phenotypes who don't "require" as much protein/calcium etc.

Scottish diet was much more animal based due to climate limitations-

1) Scotland isn't that cold. The cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh have average winter lows that are only 1°F lower than London. And we know that Northern Europe in general was very agricultural.

However, I do know for a fact that the population density of Scotland was much lower than England during medieval times (pre-Black Death). Europe for the most part was a very populated place, with a population density (when you exclude Russia and Scandinavia) equal to India. The fact that Scotland's density was much lower then England could mean that they were much less agricultural, and ate more meat.

However, it could also just mean that nobody really lived on those northern rocky parts, and that the lowlands were crowded, and that the low population density is a false signal. Similar to how Egypt technically has a low density, but in reality everyone lives on the Nile.

If you put any stock in blood types, Scotland has a uniquely high frequency of O for Europe, which causes greater stomach acid and is possibly linked to eating/needing more flesh.

they really are small people, particularly the scots. Idk where those average stats of 5'8 come from, but in my experience they're around 5'5 for the men and 5'0 for the women. I'd think the high dairy consumption would increase height though.

I've also met multiple Scottish guys who were 5'5", lol. One of them even said something like "I hate going to Europe because I feel so short there"

I have a hypothesis that being meat-adapted might make people shorter. There is something regarding Alkaline Phosphatase secretion in the stomach, in reaction to animal flesh, which encourages calcium uptake in the body. In other words, eating meat helps them absorb calcium (though the meat itself does not contain calcium)

Adamanese and Okinawans could still obtain the bulk of their calories from plants, but Scottish

You can't compare Andamanese and Okinawans to Scots. Scots are still connected to a fairly mainland-ish landmass (England), which is itself not that far away from the Eurasian mainland. A better analog would be Japan or maybe specifically Hokkaido.

Okinawa and the Andamans are absolutely tiny, and totally disconnected from anything else. There are basically no proper islands in Europe which have been inhabited in a similar fashion as the ones in Asia.

 

[username]

I find the claim of "large amounts" very hard to believe

Meat was scarce in the Old World in general. The only exception is after the Black Death killed off almost half of Europe's population, but even then there was a huge gulf in meat consumption between Europeans and Americans until sometime in the mid 20th century (it still persists but is not as comically huge)

why is that hard to believe. 90% or their pig population was killed off around ww2

 

[lvysaur]

If I look up tables of average hight in men and woman over the whole wide world, the Scots don`t seem to be so small.

That's not much of a comparison. Just look at any meat consumption map, calcium consumption map, or GDP per capita map.

I don't know if it was the damp climate or the lack of sun

It's definitely not sunlight, since it's the same latitude as scandinavian cities

Brits are average 5'9" for men, 5'3.5" for women, same as USA.

but the USA tally takes into account the heights of recent immigrants from poor, which are noticeably shorter. Scotland has very few immigrants. Modern north euro heights average 5'10"-5'11".

Some of this and other things were discussed in an earlier thread.

I'm very familiar with that thread, and it doesn't disprove anything about genetics. It only proves that the environment/epigenetics are extremely important as well.

The average Scottish male lives in a 1st world nation, eats just as much dairy/meat as a Scandinavian, gets the same amount of sunlight (actually more since Swedes have noticeably browner skin), and yet is 2 inches shorter on average.

An even stronger case: Portugal. A country which was and still is fantastically wealthy, has basically been 1st world before the term was even invented, eats the 99th percentile of dairy and meat in the world, including a lot of beef, and yet is only as tall as Kerala (a province in South India).

Same thing when you directly compare Japan to China or Korea. Some people just have hard genetics which make them shorter.

 

[lvysaur]

why is that hard to believe.

because Japan even today eats half as much meat as the average European? And Okinawa has 3x the population density as Germany, and 2x that of mainland Japan.

Very hard to imagine that a tiny island territory in the 1940s would be eating meat in anything near "large amounts" by modern western standards.

https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/meat-consumption-world-map.png

 

[Adf]

Let me state that I very much appreciate Rays work and the benefits I have had from applying his wise knowlege
( judged by how good I feel at the age of 48, how much energy I have and by blood work ).
My point is that there is a study for everything and even the opposite of everything.
I myself as a non bio-chemist can`t really tell which one of those studies are valid, etc.
so I have to find trustworthy experts.
I am convinced that Ray, Georgi, Danny, Hans and a few others are the most trustworthy and competent
nutrition / lifestyle experts I have ever found but I am becoming sceptical about Ray:

- Hasn`t he always praised dairy so much?
- Hasn`t he always emphasized animal protein, liver, an animal source of VIt A.
- Hasn`t he always stated that 80-120g of protein per day for liver health; even more in an active person?
- Before one or two years he was speaking clearly and fluently now he is hard to understand,stuttering constantly; why is that?
- He says that limiting protein in old age is different from limiting protein in young people that old people don`t need
as much protein for anabolic reasons; but isn`t the whole bioenergetic approach about keeping the system up, even in old age?

My diet for context:
- Have been vegan for around 2 years; have been metabolicly damaged but not so much
- Started with milk and white sugar; felt great; added oranges, liverwurst, cooked mussels, felt even better
- later on added meat with gelatin.; which was a real game changer
( had even more energy; bowel movements went from 1 per day to 2-3 per day after adding meat and replacing oranges with orange juice )

Let`s have an open, fair on-topic discussion.

I think a very important thing to remember is Ray is a very old man. You should definitely not eat exactly what he eats, because he is eating for a very old mans body and has different nutrition requirements.

As you say all studies contradict each other. Our human bodies are highly adaptive, possibly infinitely adaptive, we simply don't know. I think of the human body just like outer space. As we couldn't possibly know all of the things that are in outer space, we cannot know of all the mechanisms our body has. Likewise for every piece of fruit and vegetable and animal out there.

I often think about it like this.. we believe our knowledge today is the correct science. In the past we believed many things, that our current science today has disproved and 'overwritten'. We think of our ancestors as less intelligent than we, because they did not have the knowledge we do now. We have constantly rewritten our beliefs with the new knowledge we gain. So it is absolutely certain that many of the things we so strongly believe today will also be disproved and rewritten from the knowledge our descendants will gain. So there's no need IMO to take anything as 100% matter of fact.

There's also the fact our minds/beliefs drastically affect our body aka placebo/nocebo. Haidut has a great thread on this with studies suggesting the ritual of the healing, whether its a shaman or a doctor, is just as important if not more so, than the medication itself. A true healer knows how to work the mind of the afflicted into unison with the medication that allows for healing. I have lived my whole life with this belief, that mind over matter is very real.

We only know what we know, which is no where near as much as we like to pretend. Reading studies should definitely spark interest and experimentation and you should always experiment with optimistic belief until you find what works best for yourself, but nothing should be a complete matter of fact.

 

[Dr. B]

For certain periods of history, yes.

I have no trouble believing it for Europe, because as I said, half of the European population died off around 1380, and the population still hasn't recovered from that.

I have lots of trouble believing that a 400 sqmi island was traditionally eating lots of meat at any point in history. The phenomenon of island dwarfism, which can still be observed in Okinawans, the Andamanese, and even the Japanese and Brits (who are shorter than other Asians/Euros respectively) goes against this.

so is meat needed for good health and height? or is it interchangeable with eggs or milk. as long as you get either meat, milk or eggs you can manage? wouldnt all milk be better than eggs or meat, even better than a mix of meat, milk and eggs.
you can get iron and copper from a very small amount liver like 2 ounces per week. or fruits like figs, grapes, dates, cocoa powder contain iron and maybe copper too. even milk has some iron i think. like 0.1mg per cup. so a gallon would give you 1.6mg at least. Ray advises under 5mg iron a day.

 

[Dr. B]

I was thinking the same.
Would be pretty convenient to just eat fruit and drop essientiel amino acids pills 3 times a day.
There is an essentiel amino acid product which is inspired by the "perfect ratio" Haidut come up before some years; low tryptophane, low methionine.
Many claim good results.
But I would argue that with real food you get so much more, many co-factors and all that stuff

milks ratio is good?

 

[Dr. B]

Yes. My observation is that it is especially important during the formative years. My cousins on my father's side of the family grew up on the farm. They thought that it was weird that my mother enouraged her kids to drink milk with each meal. Unsurprisingly, the kids in my mother's family are much taller than my cousins,

Bone is a living structure and it is contantly being broken down and rebuilt. This happens simultaneouly and adequate protein is needed to maintain height and avoid bone fragility in adults.

bone is made up of proteins? or just calcium and phosphorus?

I did not intend to imply that. I do not have background in this stuff. I think that after puberty the bones do not lengthen. The protein is needed to prevent shrinkage and maintain bone mass.

I reached puberty at 11 or 11.5. my height went up quickly to 5'10 but basically stayed there from middle school onwards.
although, I was often eating home cooked made meals made using canola oil. got vaccines and xrays. drank fluoridated toxic tap water. I also drank non organic milk and orange juice often.
but the thing is my protein intake was most likely just 50 grams a day for most of my childhood and even highschool. It wasn't until maybe 17 years old, getting into bodybuilding that I started increasing protein intake to higher amounts like 120 grams, 150 grams, 220 grams, whilst weighing 170 to 200+ pounds.

I think a very important thing to remember is Ray is a very old man. You should definitely not eat exactly what he eats, because he is eating for a very old mans body and has different nutrition requirements.

As you say all studies contradict each other. Our human bodies are highly adaptive, possibly infinitely adaptive, we simply don't know. I think of the human body just like outer space. As we couldn't possibly know all of the things that are in outer space, we cannot know of all the mechanisms our body has. Likewise for every piece of fruit and vegetable and animal out there.

I often think about it like this.. we believe our knowledge today is the correct science. In the past we believed many things, that our current science today has disproved and 'overwritten'. We think of our ancestors as less intelligent than we, because they did not have the knowledge we do now. We have constantly rewritten our beliefs with the new knowledge we gain. So it is absolutely certain that many of the things we so strongly believe today will also be disproved and rewritten from the knowledge our descendants will gain. So there's no need IMO to take anything as 100% matter of fact.

There's also the fact our minds/beliefs drastically affect our body aka placebo/nocebo. Haidut has a great thread on this with studies suggesting the ritual of the healing, whether its a shaman or a doctor, is just as important if not more so, than the medication itself. A true healer knows how to work the mind of the afflicted into unison with the medication that allows for healing. I have lived my whole life with this belief, that mind over matter is very real.

We only know what we know, which is no where near as much as we like to pretend. Reading studies should definitely spark interest and experimentation and you should always experiment with optimistic belief until you find what works best for yourself, but nothing should be a complete matter of fact.

mind over matter seems to have limits. someone mentioned that some pro athletes stated they could materialize things from their thoughts and blamed that so called 'ability' on their athletic success. it really is nonsense because for the vast majority of people it's not true. Only Biblical prophets and ancient blessed figures (given miracles) could literally materialize something. I don't think there's a single pro athlete today who materialized anything. the most they could do is materialize themselves training and succeeding and achieving, and then doing the process of dieting and training. it's not a literal materialization as in they believe they can be athletic and muscular and it just happens automatically. the people who heal do it because their metabolic rate allows for it. otherwise there's something supernatural involved.

Well, I have to disagree with you there about bones not lengthening after puberty. My husband who has worked physically very hard throughout his life, even as a small child of 4 years due to a controlling father, pick axe work, hauling dirt and rocks in wheelbarrows, then built his own 46' boat starting at the age of 21...has always had very thick wrists, huge hands and great strength overall. He has always had the unquenchable urge to work hard or be doing something and when I met him he was 6'1 and 1/2".. that was when he was 22 and a half. As the years went on he noticed he needed bigger shoe sizes and seemed to be growing taller in his 30's and 40's even though girth remained the same. He is now 6'3" in height, strong as a bull with the same 34" waist and huge shoulders and arms at 70 years old. He strives to do physical work everyday, we sail almost every weekend in high seas and wind and he mans the new 47' Catalina boat singlehandedly. It ain't easy hauling up sails and then pulling in the jib and working all the lines (ropes).

So to sum up, I think that you can grow after puberty if you use your body and stress it somewhat. Me, my feet have grown somewhat after pregnancy but I attribute that to being barefoot most of the time. I have not shrunk much for an old lady...maybe only half an inch but I am not very physically active, no working out, just daily chores of housecleaning and gardening.

what's the girth measurement of his wrists? I have 7 inch wrists or 7.5 inch wrists I cant remember, at 5'10. Im not sure if this is the norm or what it's considered. if waist is measured as the measurement around the belly button, my stomach sucked in waist would be 28.5 inches sucked in, 30 inches relaxed, and shoulders were 46 or 48 inches.

Dwarfism is not short height. And I don't think that low ancestral/evolutionary protein will cause short height--I think it will select for phenotypes that can grow tall without high protein. There are too many tall vegetarians, and even some experiments show vegetarian children growing taller than meat-eaters. Meat is only a factor when it is deprived from a specific body/gene type.

But if you have a protein-loving phenotype, then lower protein will probably make your individual self shorter, yes. Which is one of the main reasons behind short heights in the 3rd world (along with lower general calories, lower calcium, dirty water, and missing out on epigenetic momentum). The tall individuals from these countries are probably those phenotypes who don't "require" as much protein/calcium etc.



1) Scotland isn't that cold. The cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh have average winter lows that are only 1°F lower than London. And we know that Northern Europe in general was very agricultural.

However, I do know for a fact that the population density of Scotland was much lower than England during medieval times (pre-Black Death). Europe for the most part was a very populated place, with a population density (when you exclude Russia and Scandinavia) equal to India. The fact that Scotland's density was much lower then England could mean that they were much less agricultural, and ate more meat.

However, it could also just mean that nobody really lived on those northern rocky parts, and that the lowlands were crowded, and that the low population density is a false signal. Similar to how Egypt technically has a low density, but in reality everyone lives on the Nile.

If you put any stock in blood types, Scotland has a uniquely high frequency of O for Europe, which causes greater stomach acid and is possibly linked to eating/needing more flesh.


I've also met multiple Scottish guys who were 5'5", lol. One of them even said something like "I hate going to Europe because I feel so short there"

I have a hypothesis that being meat-adapted might make people shorter. There is something regarding Alkaline Phosphatase secretion in the stomach, in reaction to animal flesh, which encourages calcium uptake in the body. In other words, eating meat helps them absorb calcium (though the meat itself does not contain calcium)


You can't compare Andamanese and Okinawans to Scots. Scots are still connected to a fairly mainland-ish landmass (England), which is itself not that far away from the Eurasian mainland. A better analog would be Japan or maybe specifically Hokkaido.

Okinawa and the Andamans are absolutely tiny, and totally disconnected from anything else. There are basically no proper islands in Europe which have been inhabited in a similar fashion as the ones in Asia.

this is interesting stuff. what is your current diet like, how much milk are you drinking? doing a full gallon milk with sugar, for me, works better than doing half gallon milk plus ground beef with pasta or rice.
the most toxic food ive found which I think might be more inflammatory or similar to PUFA is the enzyme cheeses. especially pizza because it has a massive amount of hard to digest bread and enzyme filled cheese. burgers arent that bad. a small amount of pufa like small amount mayo isnt bad. burger buns and the american cheese slice isnt that bad.

did you look into that study Ray mentioned once where fructose had some pro calcium effects, what are your thoughts there? apparently fructose helped maintain bone structure even on a zero calcium diet which had phosphorus in it. it was soemthing like the fructose helped excrete phosphate, and thus improved bone mass somehow.

im not convinced sunlight helps much. arent some of the tallest people coming from northern european countries, people with mongolian genetics and certain african countries? extreme sunlight vs no sunlgith, yet the common factor is the dairy consumption and red meat or blood consumption. and maybe carbs too. like some form of pasta/bread or honey or something.

 

[lvysaur]

so is meat needed for good health and height?

I think that if you physiologically crave meat, you should eat it. I specifically crave meat, and very rarely crave eggs. It is not about protein alone, or even the "quality" of protein, but something else regarding the texture of the protein--which is why I will crave beef over chicken for example.

I think that some people, specifically Americans, are out of tune with physiological cravings, and are more prone to overeating meat because it "tastes good" or "they're used to it"

I also think that a lot of people, 3rd worlders in general and specifically Indians, have the same problem in an opposite direction--being pushed to eat vegetarian food due to poverty and in the latter's case, sociopolitical dogma (though this dogma is growing outside of India as well).

The best option would be to introduce a child to as wide an array of foods as possible and just let them eat what they like.

this is interesting stuff. what is your current diet like

I don't drink that much milk nowadays, but I'm also on more of a standard diet (just the low PUFA version). Roughly 2 cups a day. I used to do high milk+sugar back in college, and during those times I wasn't craving meat quite as much.

toxic enzyme cheeses: I haven't noticed a huge problem from enzymes themselves, however pizza gives me sluggish feelings, probably due to high gluten (many "artisanal" pizza and european breads are very high gluten)

did you look into that study Ray mentioned once where fructose had some pro calcium effects, what are your thoughts there? apparently fructose helped maintain bone structure even on a zero calcium diet which had phosphorus in it. it was soemthing like the fructose helped excrete phosphate, and thus improved bone mass somehow.

I've never read that study and would be interested if you could find it.

arent some of the tallest people coming from northern european countries, people with mongolian genetics and certain african countries

Mongols are not tall.

Despite having meat consumption similar to the US, and specifically beef consumption also similar, as well as higher dairy consumption than the rest of Asia, Mongols are shorter than the Chinese. This makes them one of the few "guaranteed" short people on the planet, as their relatively shorter height simply cannot be blamed on nutrition, nor even on epigenetic momentum from said nutrition. Probably the cold climate of Siberia made them shorter due to lack of resources/need to conserve body heat.

vitamin D is not something that is equally necessary for everyone: African People Aren't Vitamin D Deficient