Peat's Recommended Diet for One Woman

[cmdshiftdel]

I wanted to call this post Ray Peat's Diet Recommendations and Other Un-Peaty Shockers from his book Nutrition for Women, but that was too long.

As you may have surmised, I finally got my hands on a copy of Ray Peat's Nutrition for Women book and I have to say there were a bunch of surprises in it I wasn't expecting. Of note, at least 2 references to the detriments of refined sugar (p. 85 & p. 88). WHAT?! Yes, I know. I don't understand either.

Was this book written before Peat started advocating white sugar or is our idea of Peat a bit off base?

In any case, in this book Ray Peat writes about the Wisconsin Diet being very effective for weight loss. The Wisconsin Diet consists of 90 g of Protein & 40 g of Carb, with the rest of the calories coming from fat, and requires avoiding all refined carbs. I'm assuming this would include white sugar? Wowza.

He also mentions a typical reference diet for one woman (I'm not sure this is Wisconsin Protocol):
* Upon waking, a piece of fruit.
* Breakfast --> an egg and cereal or toast (pre-soaked grains) with milk on cereal or butter on toast
* 2 Hrs Later --> 1/2 oz cheese & raw carrot
* Lunch --> a tuna salad, fruit or milk if more calories are needed
* Supper --> Oyster stew & salad & potato OR chicken breast with well boiled spinach or broccoli & fruit
* Bedtime --> snack of milk & fruit

As far as calories are concerned, he mentions two numbers - 1250 cals & 1500 cals. The context is that these are roughly the number of calories consumed in areas by people that have the longest life span. He does mention that some women have trouble losing weight on 1000 cals per day or less, but attributes this to other issues (thyroid, etc). He criticizes nutritionists that feel you need more calories than this to get proper nutrition.

If you are on a weight loss plateau, he recommends addition of coffee (but take into account how much you sweeten and cream it), fiber, 2 raw carrots, and/or coconut oil.

The book has left me feeling a little bit, well, lost. It certainly isn't very Peaty in a few of its suggestions, yet its a book written by the man Ray Peat himself. I wonder if some of the ideas we have of Ray Peat are internet folklore gone wild.

It pretty heavily recommends specific supplementation (of course making sure supps are excipient free) - which I will write about in another post.

I'm going to investigate this Wisconsin Diet a bit more (and go back and reread the book) but I wanted to stir the pot on the forum and see what y'all think.

 

[SaltGirl]

Well, when was the book written? If there is one thing Ray Peat has admitted is that he evolves with his knowledge and what he wrote in this book may very well be the best thing he knew at the time, but as with the scientific body of knowledge he now has more expansive knowledge. Of course, we can't really know unless he chimes in on it. :)

To be clear, he never recommends pure sugar except in therapeutic contexts and prefers fruit over it.

 

[Mittir]

To be clear, he never recommends pure sugar except in therapeutic contexts and prefers fruit over it.

Here is a quote from that same book

3. Grains, legumes, and some nuts (e.g ., walnuts and
peanuts) are highly allergenic. Soaking or sprouting them is
very desirable. Cooking cabbage , broccoli, cauliflower,
mustard, etc ., will destroy chemicals which poison the
thyroid gland. Laetrile and PABA inhibit the thyroid. Greens
and potatoes (cooked) are good to substitute for bread
(especially the factory-made kinds) and for beans. Soy beans
are terribly over-rated .
4. Eat frequently, using protein , fat, and carbohydrate at the
same time, e.g., an egg and an orange, or a carrot with cheese.
Fruit is the best source of carbohydrate : avoid uncooked starches such as nuts
page 95: Nutrition for Women

 

[j.]

It might have been written before he came across work showing the damages of starches, or before he knew that starches make the body secrete more insulin.

 

[Mittir]

It might have been written before he came across work showing the damages of starches, or before he knew that starches make the body secrete more insulin.

He still thinks some well cooked starch with saturated fat is ok but not optimal.
He mentioned in recent interview that fermenting and sprouting grains make it much safer.
He himself started avoiding starches after reading Volkheimer's works on persorption.

 

[cmdshiftdel]

Not sure when this was written, but its the Fifth Edition, Copyright 1993 (which may be when the 1st edition came out?). In the introduction he mentions a few things he's changed his mind on (salt & obesity), but says the rest of the book is pretty much okay since "it seems to be far enough ahead of the general culture that it has something useful for almost anyone."

I think in particular his reference to a high protein, moderate carb "diet" as a useful tool for losing weight to be helpful since I never found the "quart of orange juice & milk" advice useful or practical for my specific physiology.

I also found it interesting from a forum-peruser perspective since the general consensus on Ray Peat (before diving into his books and writings in depth) would seem that he is promoting consumption of white sugar (albeit for therapeutic purposes) and excess calories ad libitum while in this book he takes a much more conservative position, both on calories and table sugar consumption.

Certainly in 21 years things have changed but following the journey is interesting to say the least. That being said I find this book to be generally on point for me and any woman trying to incorporate Ray Peat's ideas should try to pick this oldie but goodie up. The Wisconsin Diet suggestion, to be honest, is helpful even if somewhat contradictory to his modern suggestions since many of us have not been able to lose weight on the diet we think of as Peat-Approved.

I briefly googled Wisconsin Diet and nothing of relevance comes up, but his general guidelines are sufficient to make up a food plan and test it out - which I want to do in the near future. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

I think his understanding has evolved significantly since writing this book, and significant new research has also been published since then.

In particular, I think his views have evolved to focus more centrally on the role of biological energy in health, and he has reinterpreted his old nutrition ideas into the context of each foods influence on metabolic rate.

I find this very refreshing, and strong evidence that Peat is a "real scientist" who is able to update his views in light of new evidence. This contrasts strongly with other "nutrition gurus" who present an unwavering message in the face of new evidence that strongly conflicts with their old views (*cough* Taubes *cough*).

I am surprised he still sells this book given his newer ideas, if I were him I would pull it from the market until I could complete and updated edition. Still, I've very much enjoyed reading all of Peat's older works, even though many of the ideas are clearly wrong (such as structuring of water outside the context of an interacting surface as mentioned in Mind and Tissue). His thought processes and willingness to entertain unusual ideas is refreshing and interesting, even when the specific details are outdated.

 

[juanitacarlos]

I couldn't think of anything that would crash my metabolism more than eating 1250-1500 calories. I know that for a fact.

I think in one of the Herb Doctors shows he was asked why some people who use a Peat-inspired diet put on weight and he said it's just about calories - they eat too much.

In an email exchange when talking about being overweight he said replace starch with fruit.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Still, I've very much enjoyed reading all of Peat's older works, even though many of the ideas are clearly wrong (such as structuring of water outside the context of an interacting surface as mentioned in Mind and Tissue.

What does he propose in the book? The EZ state can be induced by current, not just surface. Meaning it can extend far given enough charge.

 

[arinryan]

I briefly googled Wisconsin Diet and nothing of relevance comes up, but his general guidelines are sufficient to make up a food plan and test it out - which I want to do in the near future. I'll keep you guys posted.

There is a very similar diet in terms of carb and fat proportions invented by a Polish doctor Kwasniewski. He loves saturated fat. I was on it for several years before deciding to raise carbs and see if it would improve my thyroid. I still think the two Dr's might have alot to discuss and get along well, there is a lot of overlap between them.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

What does he propose in the book? The EZ state can be induced by current, not just surface. Meaning it can extend far given enough charge.

He talks about how water can have persistent structural changes, which can influence health. For example boiling water would 'randomize' it and make it harmful to drink, and flowing it past a magnet could 're-structure' it. If I remember correctly, there was a Russian study in the 1970s claiming to demonstrate this effect, but nobody else could reproduce the results. He may have written this book right in the middle of those events, in which case I think his opinion was reasonable at the time.

I think it defies thermodynamics, thermal heat should immediately randomize water unless external conditions such as charged surfaces make the structured state more energetically favorable.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Pollack states the very EZ state ( ) is where the energy can be stored. Who knows. What Ray Peat was talking about there is "polywater". The way they dismissed it is by saying it had silica in it. Of course that only credits the role of the EZ state.

 

[pboy]

ive noticed that holding water at boiling for more than a second causes the calcium in this case, its spring water, to turn from being invisible to scale on the side of the cooking vessel, and then after you pour the water out a thin white film throughout the water and on the sides of the vessel. The water tastes slightly less refreshing as well (perhaps due to bicarbonate or Co2 changes). Also...anything that is hygroscopic of that causes water tension, that absorbs water like sugar or fiber or anything, if it becomes too dry and the water is boiling for more than a second, it noticeably changes the texture and apparent digestibility of the substance...i basically have to keep enough water not to let the substance get dry at all to retain its form. Having said all this, it really makes me wonder if baking, roasting, or any kind of dry heating of food past 212 degrees is probably rendering many minerals in the food insoluble and therefore less bioavailable. And really even if boiling food it probably shouldn't remain at the boiling temp for more than a second or two for optimal nutrient retention. These are just my observations but im thinking theres a lot more to water / substance and temperature interactions than people talk about

* on a side note, ultra pasteurized milk is actually heated at past the boiling point, 265 degrees or so, so its essentialy baked milk...not really boiled, and contains the acrylamide type substances, probably oxidized fat and cholesterol also. I didn't even realize this until recently. The milk is sprayed like a spray bottle in short bursts into a firey hot chamber (dry heat) at the top of the chamber, then as it falls to the bottom it cools and the vapor eventually condensates back in with the milk. What a weird device...like, how could no one tell that that would be detrimental to the food quality?