Milk and Fruit only

Vileplume

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@Jennifer Those peaches are huge! I will have to try a box from TJ's if they're carrying them next time I stop in. Do the grapes tend to be sweet and thin-skinned throughout the year? I tried the organic red ones yesterday and they were also very good. I sorta feel like I won the lottery, but I especially will if my tongue begins to clear up as I continue to eat these grapes over the coming days/weeks.

That ice cream also looks amazing, and it's nice you don't need to use an ice cream maker. Do bananas digest all right for you? I've been reluctant to try them because I don't know how they'll digest.
 

Jennifer

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@Vileplume, I think we’re at the peak of grape season because they typically taste the best to me from the end of August through October. I bought some grapes at TJ’s on two occasions back in July and they were sour. Starting around May, Whole Foods has pink muscats. Those are my favorite. They have this lovely floral flavor, similar to the floral flavor in peaches and apples. I haven’t been to WF recently but like TJ’s, they usually have really good grapes now, particularly the Grapery brand:

Grapery

I was really sick recently and for whatever reason, the last of my food intolerances and digestive issues vanished so I tolerate bananas well but when I was practically allergic to everything but air and my digestion was compromised, the only bananas I semi tolerated were the heavily spotted, dark-skinned, and what could be classified as overripe, ones. I think because most of their starch has converted to sugar. The raw starch might be one reason why Ray recommends that we cook bananas? In case you’re interested, this study gives a general idea of how much starch bananas have at different stages of ripeness:

Dietary fiber, starch, and sugars in bananas at different stages of ripeness in the retail market
 

Tilly-J

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You seem like such a sweet soul, @Tilly-J. :)

I’m not sure exactly what you’ve tried so please ignore my unsolicited advice if you’ve been there, done that. And I hope this will ease your mind—the way I was eating when I increased my bone density is not the only way. Even though I wasn’t coming from a history of calorie restriction, with such a nutrient poor diet as fruitarianism and low-protein, plant-based, it was as if I was, and just giving my body all that protein and calcium did wonders for it so please don’t let your body’s current limitations have you fearing you can’t reverse the damage, okay? I think the most important thing is getting enough easily digested, a.k.a tolerable to you, sources of protein, calcium, carbohydrates etc., and calories in general, to meet your body’s needs.

I struggled for years to digest fat, had terrible acid reflux and gallbladder attacks, which is partly why I ended up back on a fruitarian diet for several years so I understand the predicament you’re in. My ultrasounds showed I had gallstones and liver “sludge” and I averaged less than 5% of my calories from fat for 5 years (?) because of it. I think I mentioned this to you but I went all in when I refed and it landed me in the hospital so I think slowly working up to the amount of fat I’m able to consume now would likely have been the wiser approach. Maybe had I been able to convince doctors to prescribe me thyroid sooner, I would have tolerated fat sooner, but there are supplements like Ancestral Supplements’ gallbladder with ox bile that might help?


In regards to raw milk, I started out skimming mine and even without the cream, I found it a godsend because not only did it not trigger acid reflux, it calmed it, and after years on a fruitarian diet, it provided my body with much needed nutrition to heal. Bone broth was another staple that was easy for me to digest and soothing to not only my esophagus but also my intestines. I used Thorne’s K2 back in 2014 (?) and it bothered my intestines and caused nightmares so I stopped taking it. I do much better with food sources of K2 such as butter, cheese and eggs, but those obviously won’t work for you at this point so I would say if you think it might help, a K2 supplement could be worth a try. Oh, I just remembered, liver provides K2, also. Do you like and tolerate liver?

I can understand how difficult it is finding good fruit, sure. We have beautiful orchards in New England but even still, our climate doesn’t allow for good fruit year round so I buy extra in season and freeze it to have a steady supply during the winter, however, I also buy a lot of already frozen and canned fruit. The first Peaches & Cream batch of ice cream that I posted on Rinse &rePeat’s thread was made with canned yellow peaches that I put in the freezer ahead of time. Ripe bananas also work brilliantly as they have a lower water content, making for a creamy ice cream, and being a low acid fruit, you might find that they’re friendlier to your teeth?

Both the ice cream and shake recipes can be adapted to your body’s current digestive limitations. For example, instead of whole milk, you could use skimmed milk and instead of dairy cream or ice cream (in the shake), you could try coconut cream or if you find you also have issues digesting coconut fat, you could try non-fat powdered milk. It would thicken it and bump up the calories, especially when combined with ripe bananas. You could also add some collagen powder? My dad was experiencing acid reflux so I started adding collagen powder to his meals and his reflux disappeared so maybe it would help relieve the GERD?

And please, no worries about moaning. Lord knows I’ve done my fair share of it so you’re in good company. :happy:

Much love, and take care!
Dear Jennifer,

I am delighted and so greatly inspired to have your 'unsolicited advice'! Truly, it has felt so reassuring to have you walk alongside me even this far in my journey. But please know that I know that this is MY journey and that I am not you and that I must find my own way. I am very aware that I must not be a 'hanger-on' as it were for that would not be good for me and it would be hugely off-putting and uncomfortable for you. I am almost embarrassed to receive this another long reply from you but so uplifted also. And if I might go a bit further with you on the journey, I feel that it would be enormously helpful. I notice that I feel a bit bolder and a bit less anxious (and the latter is so crucial to recovery, of course) for reading of your own experiences (both the good and the not-so-good ones). So I do have a few more questions, which I am going to dare to add here, please!

But first to tell you that I went to the farm yesterday and brought home my raw milk. I could not bare to skim off the fat and lose the fat-soluble vitamins which I know my body craves and I did drink about 800 mls in divided sittings yesterday. It felt so good to my body and my soul. It was not that great for the acid reflux, but no worse than my usual homogenised goat's milk so I am going to try again today with another 800 mls raw cow's and the rest of my milk intake (about 2 litres) as mostly semi-skimmed goat's milk (this in addition to my other food, of course). I am going to a farmer's market on Saturday purely to make enquiries as to whether anyone keeps goats! I am pretty sure that I will not get very far but I need to keep searching - I do love goat's milk also but having now tried raw, homogenised doesn't really hit the spot. But better than none at all, I think, for at least it gives me calcium, calories and protein which, as you reminded me, are so crucial to healing. If all this fails and the reflux continues to damage my oesophagus, I shall try the other options your have suggested for lowering my fat content.

I have raged about my body's resistance to tolerating what I believe it needs: raw milk, pastured eggs, raw butter etc, but now I am trying to encourage and coax instead, which feels much more empowering. Oh yes, and in this vein, I did ask my body so very kindly to accept a little Parmegiano Reggiano yesterday. It also tasted very good but I shall go very slowly.

Have you ever been concerned, Jennifer about taking in too much calcium? I wish my doctor would run some tests on me for PTH, alkaline phosphatase etc. As I have said to you before, he really does not see into the heart of an eating disorder - I mean the hidden dangers lying under my skin. Because I am walking around and not now emaciated, he thinks I am in a safe place. My body has done amazingly well to get me this far and I am now really recognise that everything it has done to me/given to me has been absolutely what it had to do in the interests of keeping me alive. Not what I would have chosen, but of course my body has always known best. I do know that I am not out of the woods yet by any means and need to work fast to allow it to feel truly safe.

Still on dairy - may I please ask you about constipation?! Without a single doubt, no starch is better for me with regards to SIBO stuff, but I have no peristalsis. Only Senna seems to help a little, which I try not to use, of course. Cascara Sagrada powder from the Life Giving Store seems to have a paradoxical effect but maybe I need to move it up to quite a massive dose which does not feel right. Of course, the only thing which would feel right is to know that my gut was working without the need for some supportive intervention. Magnesium oxide helps but is so hard on my gut. I do Epsom Salt footbaths twice per day, but no help in this regard. I think I remember you saying quite recently that you experienced fairly minimal bowel movements but that they were regular. I so much hope you do not mind me being so personal. Constipation has been an issue for me since my teens - so always.

I also think you might have said recently that since taking NDT your whole digestive system improved (or something like that!). I am really considering trying to get hold of something, perhaps sending to Ideal Labs - I think you use Tyromax? I think Dr. Peat favours Cynoplus. Did you begin using this under the guidance of a medic or have you worked out the best dosage for yourself? And how did you do that, please? My waking temperature is 97.1 and after food I can get it up to about 97.8. My TSH is 2.04 mlU/L and my free T3 is 3.7 pmol/L (3.1-8). I have quite slow Achilles tendon reflexes and very dry skin and hair, but I do still have quite a full head of red hair!

Sometimes I think that I just need to eat way, way more calories consistently and my thyroid would be okay. On the other hand, from lack of stomach acid, gastroparesis and peristalsis through to handling of food at the mitochondrial level, I feel that I have no vitality, that I am just worn out. All my connective tissues (tendons and ligaments especially) are SO tight, easily injured and never fully recover. Maybe I am worn out to such a degree that some thyroid help is what I am needing. The only thing which is not worn out is my determination to recover!

And, I love liver! I do have 1 oz every three days and wonder if I should up this to every other day. It tastes good but sometimes I feel a little anxious in case I am over-doing it. But I think Dr. Peat says one serving a week, which I assume is 4-6 ozs, so I think I should be okay. Do you keep a regular check on where your vitamin D levels are? Mine are 37.2 ng/ml

I am going to continue taking 1 mg of Kuinone every few days, until I can be sure that I am getting enough K2 from raw dairy. I also love very ripe bananas and think they quite like me, so that is good. I get the Fairtrade ones in the hopes that they might not have been picked too early with the downsides which Dr. Peat guards against.

If you have made it this far - thank you so much. If you have the answer to even one of my too-many questions and, at some point however far off, you feel able to answer, I would of course be so pleased. BUT equally, I am sure you have many others seeking your advice, just as I have been doing. I have already had more than my fair share of your time and kindness. I can run with that alone. Just as long as you know how deeply grateful I am. One day I truly hope that I shall be sorted enough to be able to give back myself, instead of always asking.

My warmest wishes returned
love Tilly-J
 

Vileplume

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@Jennifer, thank you for that info about the Grapery and bananas. That's so cool that some intolerances vanished after an illness. Do you think that had to do with bacterial rebalancing?

I tried TJ's grapes for a few days, and Grapery, and I got constipated again (argh) plus my white tongue didn't really resolve. So I'm on to new experiments. Currently stewing Costco organic frozen blueberries, and having a few daily bowls of that. After stewing them, the blueberries digest so much easier than when I just ate them defrosted. So far, it's had a great effect on daily BM's. I'm still at one BM day, but I have hope that I can double that at some point.

I also think I might have been using too much added salt lately, which might be causing issues when combined with the milk. I know that Ayurveda strongly recommends against combining milk and salt (though sugar is fine), so I'm currently trialing no added salt. If I remember correctly, you only salt to taste and don't add any beyond on your eggs. I didn't realize that milk already contains plenty of sodium.
 

Jennifer

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Hi @Tilly-J!

I’m glad my posts help ease your anxiety around recovery, and I’m happy to reply. :)

That’s wonderful that the raw milk felt so good and good for you for taking things slow with the Parmegiano. Aside from the reflux, how did the milk treat you? Any change with the constipation? I can’t recall ever being concerned with taking in too much calcium, no, and having fallen ill and been a guinea pig for so many years, I’ve had enough testing to prove to me that I’m wise to honor my dairy cravings. Also, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this study below, but it lends credibility to following our cravings. See baby Earl, in particular. He had active rickets at the beginning of the experiment:


Yes, my eliminations have far less volume to them since reducing my fiber intake, but I’m just as regular. Switching from pasteurized to raw milk helped with that. The constipation, tight connective tissues and weak peristalsis could certainly be thyroid related, but could the stress of living with chronic pain and worry be a factor? Since you’re not having much success with supplements, maybe getting regular massages could help relieve total body tension, preventing the connective tissue injuries and getting your bowels moving—a massage therapist knows techniques for relieving constipation?

Yes, I do take TyroMax. I was taking WP Thyroid while under a doctor’s supervision until it was recalled and I switched to TyroMax. To find the correct dose, I increase or decrease the amount by 1/4 grain every two weeks, keeping an eye on my temps and pulse, until I’m at the correct dose. I aimed for a morning temp of 97.8° (36.6°), a midday temp of at least 98.6° (37°) and a pulse between 75 and 90. And yes, I get my vitamin D levels tested regularly. I maintain above 50.

@Vileplume, you’re welcome! I’m honestly not sure why my remaining food intolerances vanished. While playing a gig, my dad caught his bandmate’s cold and shared it with me. I had a temp of 102° for about a week, lost my voice, my throat swelled up and I ended up in the ER, was tested for Covid, flu’s A & B and RSV, which not surprisingly came back negative, was discharged, and I continued taking aspirin, honey and sucking on Ricolas and was better within a couple of days.

That’s such a bummer about the grapes, but I’m glad that the stewed fruit is digesting better for you. I actually prefer fruit stewed. I made spiced compôte regularly last winter and found it to be much heartier than raw fruit—it kept me satisfied for a lot longer. And yep, I salt to taste, mainly just my egg dishes, and my only other main source of salt is cheese, but like you pointed out, milk has plenty of sodium so with the amount I consume, I get plenty of sodium from milk alone.
 

Vileplume

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Yes, my eliminations have far less volume to them since reducing my fiber intake, but I’m just as regular. Switching from pasteurized to raw milk helped with that.
Hey Jennifer :wave: Do you notice a that raw vs pasteurized milk makes a significant difference in motility and constipation?
 

Jennifer

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Hey Jennifer :wave: Do you notice a that raw vs pasteurized milk makes a significant difference in motility and constipation?

Hi Tyler! :wave:

I used to think that pasteurized milk was more constipating than raw but looking back, all the acids from the fruit I was consuming during the time my source of dairy was pasteurized had been inflaming my intestines and causing the constipation. When I did my first milk fast, and again when I found a source of raw goat’s milk and had replaced most of the fruit I had been consuming with sun-dried cane juice crystals, my motility increased but not to what it was while following a fruitarian diet, which may sound like a negative, but I’ve come to realize that it was actually a positive sign and that more isn’t necessarily better, in this case.

As someone with a history of hypothyroidism, constipation was my normal so when I went fruitarian and my motility increased, I experienced a lot of benefits, that is, until deficiencies set in. *TMI WARNING* What I’ve since learned is that technicolor poo, particularly when mustard yellow, is a common sign of gut irritation and explains the symptoms I had developed, before abandoning the diet. Since no longer consuming all that irritating fruit/juice, I eliminate less frequently throughout the day and far less volume, but I feel a million times better. My stomach is dead silent, and just as flat by bedtime as it is when I wake first thing in the morning. Sadly, despite no longer craving it much, I kept trying to include a lot of fruit in my diet because of what I had believed for so long following fruitarianism and both Dr. Morse’s and Ray’s work. Some things are harder for me to let go of, it seems. lol
 

Vileplume

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@Jennifer Awesome, thanks for that reply! Like the prior you, I have been reluctant to reduce my fruit intake because I'm afraid my intestines will just freeze up. But maybe the thing I'm clinging to (fruit) is the same thing that's preventing my digestive system from normalizing. With lots of fruit, I'm not exactly constipated, but it does not flow through my intestines well. Rather, it seems to fight me all the way through, even as it leaves. I also think my strength training might be irritating my digestive system, slowing it down and forcing me to rely on fiber for irritating bulk that keeps things moving.

I think I do well with both pasteurized and raw goat's milk, so for now I think I'll look elsewhere to identify the root of my digestive problems.
 
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Jennifer

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My pleasure, @Vileplume. :) I think I understand what you mean. That sounds similar to my experience. And I can see the strength training contributing, sure. I’ve been training to climb again and even with how good I’ve been feeling this past year, I still have to be careful not to overdo it so that adrenaline doesn’t kick in and cause my sleep and digestion to get all wonky. Given the time of year, have you experimented recently with increasing your thyroid dose?
 

Vileplume

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@Jennifer No, I haven't tried increasing it. I actually decreased the dose (from 3 grains down to 2 of my cynoplus) over the past few months, because I thought the problem might be dietary and not a thyroid issue. I also fell out of the habit of taking my temperature every day. I might add some cynomel back in, to increase the proportion of T3:T4. Have you increased your dose?

Also, when you say climb, how high of a mountain do you mean?
 

Jennifer

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Gotcha, @Vileplume. No, actually, I had to lower my dose when I increased my fat and protein intake. I figured I would need to raise it again as we headed into the winter months, however, I recently started taking Progest-E and so far, it’s looking like I may not need to up the TyroMax. I had a negative experience with Progest-E in the past, but my body is loving it, currently.

No mountains yet, just climbing the flights of stairs at my house, while carrying my pack. I’ve been working on building up strength in my back so that it can hopefully bear the weight of all my gear, while doing one of these 8+ hour climbs at least one more time:

246E95FB-C005-4F4A-9F05-81087358844C.jpeg 8A29A55C-83F1-46E0-AEAD-0A6A7DC46774.jpeg CE3ADBC6-7AD7-4DD1-8933-ADD7FD20EACF.jpeg
 

Vileplume

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@Jennifer I'm glad the progest-e is treating you well and that you can maintain good thyroid function into the winter, especially since you're in a colder area than me.

I look forward to reading about it when you reach the top of one of those peaks again, and I hope you'll include a music video to go along with the post.
 

Jennifer

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@Jennifer I'm glad the progest-e is treating you well and that you can maintain good thyroid function into the winter, especially since you're in a colder area than me.

I look forward to reading about it when you reach the top of one of those peaks again, and I hope you'll include a music video to go along with the post.

Thank you, Tyler. :) If I live to post about it, you can count on there being a music video...and a photo. :)
 

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