Milk and Fruit only

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Nik665

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I have. I consumed a low-protein, low-fat, fruit-based diet for almost two decades (roughly 7 of that was fruitarianism) and developed hypothyroidism, osteoporosis so advanced that half my spine collapsed in my late 20s while lifting half a watermelon and I had to learn how to walk again, dental issues (part of a molar broke off), muscle atrophy, hypoglycemia (blood sugar as low as 50), anxiety, depression, migraines, dangerously low blood pressure (as low as 80s/50s), gallbladder attacks, SIBO and gastritis so severe that for years, I was unable to digest anything except for ripe fruit, and the list goes on. Since increasing my protein and fat intake this year (from raw dairy and eggs), I’m finally overcoming all the remaining health issues I’ve had up until that point, and was able to reduce my thyroid dose. My bone density continues to increase and my severely kyphotic spine is straightening out so much so that while lying on my back on the floor, my view is no longer the wall behind me but the ceiling above me. I climbed mountains every weekend prior to my spine collapsing in 2009 and it has been my goal ever since to climb once again, and I was beginning to think it was never going to happen, but I’m now finally able to carry my pack and have been training to climb again. I love fruit—always have and always will—but for me, it will never hold a candle to ice cream, cheesecake, custard, quiche and cheesy omelettes. :)
Yes the diet that ray peat says that is in line with the cosmos is definitely heavy in milk and dairy products along with fruit. As a past fruitarian myself it is not something I recommend anyone do. THat being said I do think Ray is on to something when he mentions the cosmos aligned diet of dairy and fruit along with the 50 grams of protein he now mentions is better than the 100g. He mentioned less methionine and protein overall which is correlated with longevity, decreased need of t3 with lower protein meaning a metabolic boost with this way of eating. I really enjoy how he is open minded to trying new things including the reduced protein which he first heavily promoted, it shows he is not set in rigid mental ways and is willing to adapt different styles of eating that better suit the body even if it means changing things drastically. That being said I myself am also an open minded person so went in thinking "lets try something different and see how it goes" and low and behold, personally, for me and my body! wow! the holy grail when combining dairy and fruit only. As a scientist I have access to analyzers so can check bloodwork, along with other factors of health such as temp, how i feel, and such. will be interesting but so far so good :) better stools better sleep better skin slightly more energy stronger during workouts and the random junk food cravings are gone , neat.
 
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I eat 2500 calories 3000 calories weekends, lots of bananas dates mangoes whatever fresh fruit is available currently cherries and peaches, and as backup options sometimes smoothies with frozen fruit whenever its hot out they are so satisfying and refreshing. I am more satisfied than before. Ray peat mentions lower protein makes him need less thyroid meds meaning this way could increase metabolic rate , so maybe in the long run I will feel the need to increase calories but it’s been a short few months experiment so far and I feel so good. I can see why he says that this diet is the one in line with the cosmos. NOt hungrier than usual, yes i still enjoy 3 cups of coffee a day :)
Thanks for the clarity. I wish I could eat more fruit, I just don’t crave it and much of it gives me sinus and ear troubles.
 
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“In a 1938 experiment (Brown, et al.) that intended to show the essentiality of unsaturated fats, a man, William Brown, lived for six months on a 2500 calorie diet consisting of sucrose syrup, a gallon of milk (some of it in the form of cottage cheese), and the juice of half an orange, besides some vitamins and minerals. The experimenters remarked about the surprising disappearance of the normal fatigue after a day's work, as well as the normalization of his high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and the permanent disappearance of his frequent life-long migraine headaches. His respiratory quotient increased (producing more carbon dioxide), as well as his rate of resting metabolism. I think the most interesting part of the experiment was that his blood phosphate decreased. In two measurements during the experimental diet, his fasting plasma inorganic phosphorus was 3.43 and 2.64 mg. per 100 ml. of plasma, and six month after he had returned to a normal diet the number was 4.2 mg/100 ml. Both the deficiency of the "essential" unsaturated fatty acids, and the high sucrose intake probably contributed to lowering the phosphate.“ -Ray Peat
 

Jennifer

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Interesting I feel great so far and I may continue to see what the effects are. It’s great I work in a lab and can continue to test myself basically whenever I want. So will keep an eye on thyroid. I find it interesting ray peat saying this diet can do a lot of good for people and it’s probably the one most in line with the cosmos , that being said people who are still healing their bodies or have done much damage before peat probably have much to heal before going back on this way of eating. I know although peat recommends it , I’m sure I wouldn’t t recommend it to most as people have too many issues to solve first such as gut issues especially sibo which is soooo common. Maybe unresolved gi issues can cause people to not absorb all nutrition fruit and milk has to offer.
Yes the diet that ray peat says that is in line with the cosmos is definitely heavy in milk and dairy products along with fruit. As a past fruitarian myself it is not something I recommend anyone do. THat being said I do think Ray is on to something when he mentions the cosmos aligned diet of dairy and fruit along with the 50 grams of protein he now mentions is better than the 100g. He mentioned less methionine and protein overall which is correlated with longevity, decreased need of t3 with lower protein meaning a metabolic boost with this way of eating. I really enjoy how he is open minded to trying new things including the reduced protein which he first heavily promoted, it shows he is not set in rigid mental ways and is willing to adapt different styles of eating that better suit the body even if it means changing things drastically. That being said I myself am also an open minded person so went in thinking "lets try something different and see how it goes" and low and behold, personally, for me and my body! wow! the holy grail when combining dairy and fruit only. As a scientist I have access to analyzers so can check bloodwork, along with other factors of health such as temp, how i feel, and such. will be interesting but so far so good :) better stools better sleep better skin slightly more energy stronger during workouts and the random junk food cravings are gone , neat.

Great! I don’t think there’s any harm in continuing to experiment with low protein when you’re feeling so good, and routinely test and monitor your health. Dairy and fruit being aligned with the cosmos is a belief that goes way back—think Jainism and the Essene Gospel of Peace—and is one I once entertained, but I now have a different take on food’s role in spirituality and the universe/collective so I won’t comment on that, however, I should note that my original motivation for following a low-protein, fruit-based diet was an ethical and spiritual one. I was healthy prior to following the diet and have plenty of before and after tests to confirm this, including comprehensive stool tests and hydrogen breath tests confirming the non-existence of SIBO prior to following the diet. I’m not a scientist so I don’t have access to a lab like you, but I was testing routinely—bloodwork every 4–6 weeks, daily urine and saliva testing with reagents and other lab equipment, yearly DEXA scans and ultrasounds etc.

All I can say is within months of increasing my protein intake from an average of 50 g to a minimum of 100 g and fat from an average of 30 g to an average of 100 g, and with no change in caloric intake or physical activity, I had built back all the muscle that had atrophied, my hair filled in and regained its color—it had turned from dark brown (see profile pick of me in the black dress for reference) to light copper—my translucent teeth remineralized, the cartilage in my chest that I had torn 6 months prior finally healed and within a year, my bone density had improved by 50% so in my experience, pre-existing health is not a requirement for a healing diet to be healing. I’ve healed in months what I wasn’t able to heal in almost two decades. I believe in keeping an open mind, which is why I was opened to following such unconventional diets and healers as fruitarianism, RBTI/Carey Reams, Dr. Robert Morse and Ray, and why I was open minded enough to move away from what they had taught me and experiment with a higher protein and fat intake. I thrive on a combination of dairy and fruit so I understand your enthusiasm for the diet. :)
 
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Nik665

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Great! I don’t think there’s any harm in continuing to experiment with low protein when you’re feeling so good, and routinely test and monitor your health. Dairy and fruit being aligned with the cosmos is a belief that goes way back—think Jainism and the Essene Gospel of Peace—and is one I once entertained, but I now have a different take on food’s role in spirituality and the universe/collective so I won’t comment on that, however, I should note that my original motivation for following a low-protein, fruit-based diet was an ethical and spiritual one. I was healthy prior to following the diet and have plenty of before and after tests to confirm this, including comprehensive stool tests and hydrogen breath tests confirming the non-existence of SIBO prior to following the diet. I’m not a scientist so I don’t have access to a lab like you, but I was testing routinely—bloodwork every 4–6 weeks, daily urine and saliva testing with reagents and other lab equipment, yearly DEXA scans and ultrasounds etc.

All I can say is within months of increasing my protein intake from an average of 50 g to a minimum of 100 g and fat from an average of 30 g to an average of 100 g, and with no change in caloric intake or physical activity, I had built back all the muscle that had atrophied, my hair filled in and regained its color—it had turned from dark brown (see profile pick of me in the black dress for reference) to light copper—my translucent teeth remineralized, the cartilage in my chest that I had torn 6 months prior finally healed and within a year, my bone density had improved by 50% so in my experience, pre-existing health is not a requirement for a healing diet to be healing. I’ve healed in months what I wasn’t able to heal in almost two decades. I believe in keeping an open mind, which is why I was opened to following such unconventional diets and healers as fruitarianism, RBTI/Carey Reams, Dr. Robert Morse and Ray, and why I was open minded enough to move away from what they had taught me and experiment with a higher protein and fat intake. I thrive on a combination of dairy and fruit so I understand your enthusiasm for the diet. :)
It is interesting to note the differences. I have noticed my hair grow longer than usual, faster muscle recovery and better muscle tone I am starting to get slight definition in areas I’ve never had before so better body composition. People have began to comment on radiance of my skin and my bright eyes something I had not paid attention to. After hearing these comments I started paying more attention to my skin and noticed that the slight dry lines on my forehead are no longer there, humidity levels at home and work are the same so I can only attribute it to increased fruit intake but who knows And I am just as strong as before except I am not sore for an entire week if I happen to lift. I am glad that Ray Peat shared his new views on lower protein for longevity as not sure if I would have experimented without him sharing his ideas about the benefits. I was a bit concerned dropping protein as I have a very stressful job but actually have noticed sharper and better recall and mental capacity. I can also be on the microscope much longer without having to rest my eyes although I still choose to take my coffee breaks although no longer required. I think Peat is definitely on to something with the drastically reduced protein approach. Will be interesting what happens down the road
 

Jennifer

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It is interesting to note the differences. I have noticed my hair grow longer than usual, faster muscle recovery and better muscle tone I am starting to get slight definition in areas I’ve never had before so better body composition. People have began to comment on radiance of my skin and my bright eyes something I had not paid attention to. After hearing these comments I started paying more attention to my skin and noticed that the slight dry lines on my forehead are no longer there, humidity levels at home and work are the same so I can only attribute it to increased fruit intake but who knows And I am just as strong as before except I am not sore for an entire week if I happen to lift. I am glad that Ray Peat shared his new views on lower protein for longevity as not sure if I would have experimented without him sharing his ideas about the benefits. I was a bit concerned dropping protein as I have a very stressful job but actually have noticed sharper and better recall and mental capacity. I can also be on the microscope much longer without having to rest my eyes although I still choose to take my coffee breaks although no longer required. I think Peat is definitely on to something with the drastically reduced protein approach. Will be interesting what happens down the road

Given all the benefits you experience on a low-protein, fruit-based diet, may I ask why you abandoned fruitarianism? Aside from the addition of some dairy, what is it about your current diet that is different from the fruitarian diet you followed? I know what you mean about fruit’s hydrating and skin-beautifying effect. It also has that effect on me, and gelatin too, however, I have to say, dairy fat has taken the skin-beautifying to a whole other level, something that was confirmed to me by a family friend, not that long ago.
 

Matestube

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not sure we are all different but so far I am loving the energy, the happiness the clear mind which i had eating peat ish, but it has increased which i did not think was possible as i thought i felt so good before, but definitely think Ray is on to something with this cosmos aligned way of eating and the 50 grams of protein only! digging it :) i am reacting extremely well to milk oj coffee fruits cheese and ice cream only,

Is there a list of fruit you tolerate better than others ?
 
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Nik665

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Given all the benefits you experience on a low-protein, fruit-based diet, may I ask why you abandoned fruitarianism? Aside from the addition of some dairy, what is it about your current diet that is different from the fruitarian diet you followed? I know what you mean about fruit’s hydrating and skin-beautifying effect. It also has that effect on me, and gelatin too, however, I have to say, dairy fat has taken the skin-beautifying to a whole other level, something that was confirmed to me by a family friend, not that long ago.
Abandoned it as it was too low calcium. Yes dairy fat for me in cheese is delicious. But my skin was not as good with the same milk and cheese before , so I will attribute skin beauty increase to increased fruit consumption. As I did not increase dairy at all but has remained the same. So I’ll assume it’s fruit or drastically reduced protein
 

Jennifer

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Abandoned it as it was too low calcium. Yes dairy fat for me in cheese is delicious. But my skin was not as good with the same milk and cheese before , so I will attribute skin beauty increase to increased fruit consumption. As I did not increase dairy at all but has remained the same. So I’ll assume it’s fruit or drastically reduced protein

Gotcha. It's definitely a challenge getting enough calcium in a fruitarian diet. I ate a lot papaya and figs to reach a minimum of 1000 mg daily and later relied on nettles. I find it so interesting how different our reactions to food can be. I had been consuming skimmed milk and fruit for a couple years and once I switched to full-fat dairy, I no longer needed an emollient, something unheard of for me, and I keep getting comments on my skin, even from people I haven’t seen in years. I saw a friend not that long ago who hadn’t seen me since I fractured and knew I was working on getting my health back and the first thing he said to me was that whatever it is I’m doing, I’m on to something and then gave me one of the nicest complements I’ve ever received on my skin. The only thing I could think to tell him was that it’s from all the raw dairy fat I’ve been consuming because apart from greatly lowering my fruit intake, it’s the only change I’ve made to my diet.
 
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Nik665

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Gotcha. It's definitely a challenge getting enough calcium in a fruitarian diet. I ate a lot papaya and figs to reach a minimum of 1000 mg daily and later relied on nettles. I find it so interesting how different our reactions to food can be. I had been consuming skimmed milk and fruit for a couple years and once I switched to full-fat dairy, I no longer needed an emollient, something unheard of for me, and I keep getting comments on my skin, even from people I haven’t seen in years. I saw a friend not that long ago who hadn’t seen me since I fractured and knew I was working on getting my health back and the first thing he said to me was that whatever it is I’m doing, I’m on to something and then gave me one of the nicest complements I’ve ever received on my skin. The only thing I could think to tell him was that it’s from all the raw dairy fat I’ve been consuming because apart from greatly lowering my fruit intake, it’s the only change I’ve made to my diet.
Yes we are all different ! And for me like o said the inner glow has got to be from the drastically reduced protein or from all the added fruit. It’s the only change I’ve made to my diet. It looks so good I even stopped using the one lotion I used to. It’s like I’m aging in reverse.
 

SamYo123

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its the sattvik diet which is promoted for hundreds of years to give most life energy to cells. Ancient knowledge never fails to amaze me. milk is the most sattvik thing anyone can consume
You dont hear of athletes using milk to sustain energy while they endure
 

Jennifer

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Yes we are all different ! And for me like o said the inner glow has got to be from the drastically reduced protein or from all the added fruit. It’s the only change I’ve made to my diet. It looks so good I even stopped using the one lotion I used to. It’s like I’m aging in reverse.

Aging in reverse is a perfect way to describe it. We’re on Benjamin Button diets. :happy:
 

Tilly-J

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Great! I don’t think there’s any harm in continuing to experiment with low protein when you’re feeling so good, and routinely test and monitor your health. Dairy and fruit being aligned with the cosmos is a belief that goes way back—think Jainism and the Essene Gospel of Peace—and is one I once entertained, but I now have a different take on food’s role in spirituality and the universe/collective so I won’t comment on that, however, I should note that my original motivation for following a low-protein, fruit-based diet was an ethical and spiritual one. I was healthy prior to following the diet and have plenty of before and after tests to confirm this, including comprehensive stool tests and hydrogen breath tests confirming the non-existence of SIBO prior to following the diet. I’m not a scientist so I don’t have access to a lab like you, but I was testing routinely—bloodwork every 4–6 weeks, daily urine and saliva testing with reagents and other lab equipment, yearly DEXA scans and ultrasounds etc.

All I can say is within months of increasing my protein intake from an average of 50 g to a minimum of 100 g and fat from an average of 30 g to an average of 100 g, and with no change in caloric intake or physical activity, I had built back all the muscle that had atrophied, my hair filled in and regained its color—it had turned from dark brown (see profile pick of me in the black dress for reference) to light copper—my translucent teeth remineralized, the cartilage in my chest that I had torn 6 months prior finally healed and within a year, my bone density had improved by 50% so in my experience, pre-existing health is not a requirement for a healing diet to be healing. I’ve healed in months what I wasn’t able to heal in almost two decades. I believe in keeping an open mind, which is why I was opened to following such unconventional diets and healers as fruitarianism, RBTI/Carey Reams, Dr. Robert Morse and Ray, and why I was open minded enough to move away from what they had taught me and experiment with a higher protein and fat intake. I thrive on a combination of dairy and fruit so I understand your enthusiasm for the diet. :)
Dear Jennifer,

I have followed your amazing logs and, whilst of course I wish that you had not had to find your way back from places of deepest concern for your health, I can see that you have been an inspiration to so many on this forum, myself included even though I am a relative newcomer.

I should like to ask you a bit more about the words you have written above: 'I've healed in months what I wasn't able to heal in almost two decades'. I have a lot of healing to do and have failed to do so over four decades. I have a spine which needs strengthening big time - my last bone density scan some 10 years ago perhaps (I will never another one either now I know what I know) showed a T score of about minus 4. I have been to the dentist today for my third filling, with three cavities appearing in just a few months. I am very depressed about this. I have much muscle wastage, easily strained tendons and ligaments which never fully heal, and more besides and am wondering where I am going so badly wrong. I have heard you talk of the intense craving for milk and cheese you had in the early days after your spinal collapse and I too have this desire for dairy foods, including butter. Are you still eating lots of raw dairy and smaller amounts of fruit? And I think you still take some form of thyroid support, which I remember you saying, I think, made a huge difference when your doctor finally acknowledged your need for it?

I wonder if you you would be willing to share the diet you are currently following in some detail. I am inspired by your courage to very much increase your fat intake and by the results you have experienced. Out of choice, I also would love to thrive on dairy with some fruit (and eggs). Perhaps I am asking too personal a question, in which case, please forgive me and ignore my request for I do know that a deep ethos on this forum is that we each of us have to find our own way.

I know that you have experienced great sadness this year with the loss of your Mum, so I imagine your whole life has shifted to manage this. I am very sorry. I hope you continue to find some of what you need in your love of music and dance to support and keep you going on.

My best wishes

Tilly-J
 

Jennifer

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This is wild, @Tilly-J. I was just thinking about you today. :) Thank you for your kind words. ❤️ I’m so sorry to learn that the issues you were struggling with when we last communicated haven’t resolved, and that new ones have emerged. If it’s not too personal a question, may I ask if you were able to get help with recovery? I’m happy to answer any questions you have for me, but I don’t want to say anything potentially at odds with your healing.
 

Tilly-J

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This is wild, @Tilly-J. I was just thinking about you today. :) Thank you for your kind words. ❤️ I’m so sorry to learn that the issues you were struggling with when we last communicated haven’t resolved, and that new ones have emerged. If it’s not too personal a question, may I ask if you were able to get help with recovery? I’m happy to answer any questions you have for me, but I don’t want to say anything potentially at odds with your healing.
Dear Jennifer,

I was very pleased to have your reply and, of course, very touched that, for some reason out of the blue, you had thought about me. I have found it difficult to reply (hence my delay) because I sensed that I had put you in a difficult position by turning up again. And now I regret doing so. The words you shared with me at the end of last year have stayed with me and I valued them then and now very much, but I have not forgotten that the end of the thread I posted seemed to have raised some strong opinions and I felt responsible for those, which is why I 'disappeared'. I appreciate the sensitivity you have shown in replying to me here and think that I understand your hesitancy to answer my questions.

I am still struggling but I am a very different me from when we were last in touch. I have experienced some very dark nights of the soul, but I feel a little wiser for living through them and I have tried to use them creatively. I no longer feel quite like a leaf blowing in the wind. I am no longer willing to allow myself to be blown here and there and am so much more ready now to choose the direction I take.

But I do have a multitude of health issues - all of which stem, of course, from long-term under-nutrition. Now I really understand from a personal level that repair of structure and function can only follow if and when sufficient energy is supplied to the body. I am providing my body with much more energy daily and feel proud and good about that, but I think I am probably still under-estimating quite how much energy is needed for true healing and repair (which is where some of the things you have posted about your own healing journey have continued to speak to me) and am always looking for ways to do that which will be accepted by my rather worn-out and worn-down body, which is why I sent you my message.

In answer to your question, I am recovering but not recovered. I do not think that anything you say would be at 'odds with my healing', as you put it. I do know that you are you and you have never had an eating disorder. And I am me and have had a severe eating disorder for most of my life. You have of course experienced a blow to your health so massive that it meant your life's course was completely deflected over a short period of time, I think, and you have had to think, act and perceive in very serious and intense ways since then to reclaim your health, which is why you are so admired on this forum, I feel sure.

It is just good to have spoken with you again here and that is sufficient. I am very sorry if I made things uncomfortable for you. I shall keep reading your posts when you pop up and wish you all the joy you deserve and the on-going strength to deal with the challenges which come your way. And may you complete your last really big climb soon.

Warm wishes,
Tilly-J
 

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