Notes Toward An "Optimal Peat Diet"

[Rayser]

I worked with a nutritionist who understands Peat's info.

Dear Jenn, I don't know your "nutritionist" but I know what Ray Peat thinks of this profession (see below) and I know that it took me four and a half years to read my way through Ray Peat's books and articles and newsletters and publications. And I am still reading and learning. By doing so I came to realize that 90% of what I believed to be true before turned out to be utter nonsense.
If your nutritionist read a lot of Ray Peat and gives you advice you don't find in his work, I would ask her for the scientific source and check out whether she is right or not. It sounds like she gave you an awful lot of statements without any proof behind them.

From "Nutrion for Women" by Ray Peat, pages 100 a.f.
Since a 30 minute talk by a dietitian is given such tremendous weight in our culture and laws, we should know
something about their training: such awesome power, if not divine, must come from the next highest authority, but since that seems to be the AMA. this would involve a circularity.
Dietetics is often combined with home economics. It is still possible to become a dietitian without taking a single course in biochemistry. It isn't too surprising that the textbooks used in their nutrition courses contain little more than is in junior high health texts. But it is odd that they criticize people with training in biochemistry (e.g., Linus Pauling, Adelle Davis, R.J. Williams) as not being qualified to talk about nutrition. According to a Registered Dietitian whose lecture preceded mine on a symposium tor pharmacists, physiologists aren't qualified to talk about nutrition either, and "every quack in the country is calling himsell a nutritionist." A friend of mine who visited the Oregon State University nutrition department told me that a display there included books by these people (mentioned above) in a displayon"nutritionalquacks."
Maybe someone is trying to glorify quackery by associating these people with the word?
A study found that people with more education are more likely to eat "health foods". However, a study done by Oregon State University nutritionists found that food faddists' diets are no better than a normal diet (I don 't know what they mean by normal; the US Department of Agriculture found that close to half of the US population has a nutritional deficiency, so normal is bad). The dietitian reporting the study on TV said that faddists avoid many of the good foods like white bread, and that we should follow a normal diet to
"eat all the food God gave us".

I haven't had heartburn or reflux either, but a lot of people do because they are eating food, but not actually digesting it. It need to go somewhere, so it goes up instead of down.

See, Ray Peat never wrote anything about reflux or heartburn. If he talked about it in an interview I haven't heard it and I cannot find anything to back up that claim scientifically. If you state it like that, as a fact, I would be grateful if you gave the proper references. Otherwise I would ask you to phrase it as your belief. It took me quite a while to try to find the information and I would not have done that had I known it as just an educated guess.

If you eat a meal and it still in your stomach at the end of the day (would happen to me frequently, but was not aware of it, when I ate meat/fat), you have not actually gotten any benefit from the food. I was confusing "full" with nourished. Yes, I believe a lot of people are not as healthy as they think they are.

I don't see why that would be a problem. I eat ice cream and drink milk with gelatine minutes before I go to bed to keep blood sugar up and stress hormones down. That was recommended by Ray Peat. The believe of not-going-to-bed with a full stomach sound very similar to don't-go-swimming-without-a-full-stomach. I have never heard or seen any scientific proof for that. If there is any, please be kind enough to post it together with the statement.

Now, mostly in the summer when I am less stressed, I can eat meat at night (lowest stomach acid levels of the day) and actually have an empty stomach in an hour or so. It's rare still, but it does happen from time to time. Mostly I am ecstatic if I can digest meat in the AM. I still have trouble with the assimilation in the intestines after digestion. More food getting too the intestine means more work.

Why is the stomach-acid-level lowest at night and during summer?

I never really realized how bad off I was until I started getting better. Only now can I even conceive of the possibilities. If your "standard" is already unhealthy and you are not even as healthy as they are......

I totally agree with that last observation, Jenn and I hope you can forgive me for being annoying about references. I have heard lots of statements in my past like "PUFA are essential", "Iron is important", "Your diet should contain lots of cereals", "Sugar is bad for you", "Saturated fats are the devil", "High cortisol will give you a heart attack".
I believed some of them and really messed up my health.
So from now on I check the references. Even Ray Peat's. No exceptions.
I don't want any more statements if they are not based on science.
I hope you do understand.

 

[narouz]

ThreadJack!!!!!!

I kid, I kid.
I am not that thin-skinned.

Actually, this is an interesting discussion.
(Little to do with an optimal Peat diet, but I don't mind.)

And Rayser, I do admire your skepticism,
and even your Peat-skepticism.
It is a bit surprising, but welcome.

Though I do hate to see The Sisters squabble.
The forum certainly is headed down the tubes with all this enormous negativity and doubting.
Can The Heroine come to the rescue of the forum yet again?

 

[Rayser]

Jenn, I hope you realize that I am not skeptical at you.
I have spent about an hour trying to find the source for the information you posted which I would never have done if I were skeptical of you.
I value your posts and your opinion.
All was asking for were the sources of the information.

Narouz - you lied about me and made up stories and insulted me in the thread about skepticism.
You repeated your insulting lies although I and others pointed out repeatedly that you were wrong.
Now you approach me again on the very same subject?
I do not wish to enter this time loop with you.

 

[narouz]

My, my.
So touchy!

And so quick to toss out inflammatory and unwarranted words like "lies."
By your implied definition of the word
you are "lying" about Jenn!

It is sad to me that you won't learn the definition of the word "skeptical."
It is plainly and inarguably the case
that you were being skeptical of Jenn.
And that's a good thing and should in no ways be construed as an "insult."

Again, the irony--on a Peat forum--concerning
the meaning, nature, and value of skepticism
is staggering.

 

[j.]

Again, the irony--on a Peat forum--concerning
the meaning, nature, and value of skepticism
is staggering.

Thanks for teaching us all and disabusing us of our ignorance. You're a hero.

 

[Rayser]

Again, the irony--on a Peat forum--concerning
the meaning, nature, and value of skepticism
is staggering.

Thanks for teaching us all and disabusing us of our ignorance. You're a hero.

j. - I have the feeling if we engage in a useless discussion with narouz again, Charlie will close this thread, too.
Please try to ignore him.

 

[narouz]

It's fun to talk about ice cream and reflux--
by golly, sisters will be sisters, won't they! --
but let's get the thread back on track :

Peat Generalizing about Diet without Specific, Individual Context

1. “There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches.”-Ray Peat, “Glycemia, Starch, and Sugar in Context”

2. A daily intake of 100 grams of gelatin wouldn't seem unreasonable, and some people find that quantities in that range help to decrease fatigue. For a growing child, though, such a large amount of refined gelatin would tend to displace other important foods. The National Academy of Sciences recently reviewed the requirements for working adults (male and female soldiers, in particular), and suggested that 100 grams of balanced protein was needed for efficient work. For adults, a large part of that could be in the form of gelatin. –Ray Peat, “Gelatin, Stress, Longevity”

3. “I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption. In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements.”-Ray Peat, “Diabetes, Scleroderma, Oils and Hormones”

4. “It's better to take your protein during the day, sugar and fat in the evening. The powdered protein lacks most of the nutrients, so you probably need some fruit, eggs, and liver, for the other nutrients, including potassium and magnesium. .”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

5. “Milk, cheese, and fruits provide a very good balance of nutrients. Fruits provide a significant amount of protein. Plain sugar is o.k. when the other nutrients are adequate. Roots, shoots, and tubers are, next to the fruits, a good carbohydrate source; potatoes are a source of good protein. Meat as the main protein can provide too much phosphorus in relation to calcium."-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html


6. “Sugar helps the liver to make cholesterol, switching from starchy vegetables to sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal. If the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it's usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat, but since those natural fats typically contain around 2% polyunsaturated fats, I try to minimize my PUFA intake by having more fruit, and a little less fat, maybe 30 to 35%.”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

7. “People can do well on high or low fat or carbohydrate, but when the carbohydrate is very low, some of the protein will be wasted as fuel, replacing the missing glucose.”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

8. “A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions..”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

9. Muscle meats (including the muscles of poultry and fish) contain large amounts of the amino acids that suppress the thyroid, and shouldn't be the only source of protein. It's a good idea to have a quart of milk (about 32 grams of protein) every day, besides a variety of other high quality proteins, including cheeses, eggs, shellfish, and potatoes. -Peat from http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.html

10. "Per calorie, sugar is less fattening than starch, partly because it stimulates less insulin, and, when it's used with a good diet, because it increases the activity of thyroid hormone.."-Ray Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

11. "Starch and glucose efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat."-Ray Peat, “Glycemia, Starch, and Sugar in Context”

12. “The starch-based diet, emphasizing grains, beans, nuts, and vegetables, has been promoted with a variety of justifications. When people are urged to reduce their fat and sugar consumption, they are told to eat more starch. Starch stimulates the appetite, promotes fat synthesis by stimulating insulin secretion, and sometimes increases the growth of bacteria that produce toxins..... Various studies have demonstrated that starch (composed of pure glucose) raises blood glucose more quickly than sucrose (half fructose, half glucose) does.”-Ray Peat, "Diabetes, Scleroderma, Oils and Hormones"
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/diabetes.shtml

13. "Protein deficiency creates an inflammatory state, and since stress causes tissue proteins to be destroyed and converted into sugars and fats, it's common to underestimate the amount of protein needed. One of the functions of sucrose in the diet is to reduce the production of cortisol, and so to spare protein."-From newsletter "Inflammation, Endotoxin, Estrogen, and Other Problems"

14. "Any carbohydrate...that is not sugar can potentially feed bacteria [in the intestines] that produce toxins and cause systemic stress."
-Dr. Ray Peat: Glycemia, Starch and SUGAR in Context!
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthe ... in-context
(Go to approximately the 29 minute mark of the interview.)

Those are just for starters.
Peat also makes a lot of what I call "benchmark" type statements about diet
without a specific, individual context:

Peat Benchmark-type Statements Without Specific, Individual Context

1. I've always been very sedentary, but I have usually had close to 150 grams daily. The traditional meat eaters didn't waste anything, ate all the skin, ears, tails, snouts, feet, tendons, lungs, intestines, marrow, blood, brains, gonads and other glands, picked the ligaments off the bones, so they had a much better balance of amino acids. (Small town restaurants in Mexico, China, etc., still serve those.) Muscle meats are essentially a refined food...
That's more than enough, and with low thyroid function the excess of tryptophan, methionine, and cysteine can lower your thyroid even more. Until your metabolic rate is higher, 80 to 100 grams would be better. Replacing it with sugar, or very well cooked starch, would support thyroid function.
-from Danny Roddy’s website,

2. “If a person eats a large serving of meat, it's probably helpful to have 5–10 grams of gelatin at approximately the same time, so that the amino acids enter the blood stream in balance.” -- http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV ... sage/15989

3. “That depends on your size, metabolic rate, and activity, and the other nutrients, but I sometimes have more than that (400 grams of carbohydrate), including the sugar in milk and orange juice (and I'm about your size, and very sedentary). The fructose component of ordinary sugar (sucrose) helps to increase the metabolic rate. I think a person of average size should have at least 180 grams per day, maybe an average of about 250 grams.”
--http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/20...ding-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html

4. “I have often had a gallon of orange juice in a day, with 100 grams of other sugar, and didn't see any problem, even while being sedentary. If your metabolic rate is high, with a pound of sugar you will still have an appetite for quite a bit of fat and protein.”- http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

5. “It's a good idea to have a quart of milk (about 32 grams of protein) every day, besides a variety of other high quality proteins, including cheeses, eggs, shellfish, and potatoes.”-Peat from http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

Again, those are just some I have at hand--not an exhaustive round-up.

Also, Peat makes general statements about what specific foods people should best eat--
in other words by any common definition, a "diet"--
and he refers to such foods--surprise!--as a "diet"!

Peat Quotations Using the Word “Diet” to Recommend a Set of Foods Good for Health

1. The amount of polyunsaturated fatty acids often said to be essential (Holman, 1981) is approximately the amount required to significantly increase the incidence of cancer, and very careful food selection is needed for a diet that provides a lower amount. –Ray Peat, "Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?"

2. "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption. In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."--Ray Peat, PhD

And I would also concede that articulating a "Starting-Point Peat-Derived Diet" (or whatever)
is indeed somewhat difficult and tentative
simply because it is still a work, by Peat, which is in progress,
and so it is still experimental.
In other words, there are unknowns:

“The right balance of amino acids and carbohydrates, and the avoidance of the antimetabolic unsaturated fatty acids, can make a great difference in mental functioning, even though we still don't know what the ideal formulas are.”--Ray Peat, "Intuitive Knowledge and Its Development"

 

[gretchen]

I've been asking about various Peatian staples at health food stores lately and have noticed that pretty much no stores- not a food co-op, health food chain store or smaller old-school vitamin/supplement health food store- carries Great Lakes gelatin, and no oysters either, and often no liver. I have decided these must be amongst some of the least popluar/"wrong" foods in the world. (from the perspective of the health food stores, which carry all sorts of other "healthy"/trendy type foods like grass fed beef etc)

Surprisingly, Vitamin Cottage does carry great lakes gelatin, albeit more expensive than online though.

Hmm, I asked for it and looked around but did not find. I thought their website said it was an item they don't have.

 

[kiran]

I've been asking about various Peatian staples at health food stores lately and have noticed that pretty much no stores- not a food co-op, health food chain store or smaller old-school vitamin/supplement health food store- carries Great Lakes gelatin, and no oysters either, and often no liver. I have decided these must be amongst some of the least popluar/"wrong" foods in the world. (from the perspective of the health food stores, which carry all sorts of other "healthy"/trendy type foods like grass fed beef etc)

Surprisingly, Vitamin Cottage does carry great lakes gelatin, albeit more expensive than online though.

Hmm, I asked for it and looked around but did not find. I thought their website said it was an item they don't have.

I see cans of it every time i go there. Maybe this store orders em special or something.

 

[Rayser]

I can't find any source for Great Lakes Gelatin in Europe. Does anybody have an idea?

 

[j.]

I think iherb ships to Europe. But they have other brands of gelatin only.

 

[Rayser]

They do. I use them. Thanks, j.

 

[jyb]

I can't find any source for Great Lakes Gelatin in Europe. Does anybody have an idea?

Shouldn't be too bad. Certainly its easy in the UK where there are several suppliers.

For Great Lakes in EU, I'd try this for example: http://www.health-energy-fitness.co.uk/The-Shop, which was mentioned in the UK Supplements thread.

 

[4peatssake]

I can't find any source for Great Lakes Gelatin in Europe. Does anybody have an idea?

Shouldn't be too bad. Certainly its easy in the UK where there are several suppliers.

For Great Lakes in EU, I'd try this for example: http://www.health-energy-fitness.co.uk/The-Shop, which was mentioned in the UK Supplements thread.

A search just now for Great Lakes gelatin at this link comes up empty. They list it in a drop down box but the product doesn't come up - at least not for me when I tried just now.

 

[jyb]

A search just now for Great Lakes gelatin at this link comes up empty. They list it in a drop down box but the product doesn't come up - at least not for me when I tried just now.

It shows up when I use the drop down menu, looking for Great Lakes as manufacturer.

 

[narouz]

Guys-

By all means hang out here if you wish.
You're welcome.
You're welcome here!
I'm not the type to get all outraged and scream "threadjack"
or something
at the drop of a hat.
So don't think I don't love every single one of you
and value your presence and thoughts.
I'm just askin' y'all:
is this really the only or the most appropriate thread
in which to discuss where Great Lakes gelatin can be bought?
I know we have several threads already posted on the topic of gelatin.
Creating new threads can be fun and rewarding!

 

[Rayser]

Thank you very much j., jyb and 4peatssake ... I'll better leave this thread now before the warden gets a stroke.
This one time he's right. I don't belong here.

 

[narouz]

Thank you very much j., jyb and 4peatssake ... I'll better leave this thread now before the warden gets a stroke.
This one time he's right. I don't belong here.

I hope I did not give any impression that your input is not valued and respected.
It is: unreservedly and fathomlessly.
I was very intrigued by the exploration you began
about the trustworthiness of dieticians
and Peat's views about digestion times and reflux, etc.
I hope you will open a thread dedicated to that!
A "warden" seeks to keep folks captive.
Just point that out because I don't want you to misinterpret my comments
and needlessly incur hurt feelings.
I meant in no way to suggest I wish to hold you prisoner.
Indeed, I desire just the opposite: to set you free to explore your own beautiful threads!
You are stupendously welcome here--let's just talk about an Optimal Peat Diet. :)
And while I do appreciate your concerns for my health,
I would like to reassure you
that my blood pressure and other stroke-related indicators
are quite strong.
With all my heart I do thank you, though. :)
And while just "this one time" being right is not much,
it is better than my previous record of never being right!
I trust I am not wrong to take this as a warm compliment from you
and to feel that there is indeed some hope for me after all .
Again, thank you so much!

 

[Rayser]

You are stupendously welcome here--let's just talk about an Optimal Peat Diet. :)

Of course, narouz. I see you have been struggling with this for a year now.
Who should the "optimal diet" be for?

man/woman?
under 12/older than 12?
before/after puberty?
before/after menopause?
prenant/trying to get pregnant/get partner pregnant?
willing to use supplements/not willing to try supplements?
trying to gain/lose weight?
any surgeries?
organs removed? thyroid gland? ovaries? uterus? thymus gland? kidney?
any autoimmun diseases?
any food/ other intolerances?
vitamin levels?
estrogen/progesterone/testosterone/prolactin level?
drugs used so far/still being used? (beta blockers, statines, the pill, marcumar, insulin e.c.)
existing disease at the moment/just trying to be as healthy as possible?
exercising?
sun exposure?
job?
tastes? (What do/don't they like to eat/drink?)
place of residence? (Sun, radiation, carbon dioxide, availability of foods e.c.)
current condition? (Doesn't make a lot of sense to start with 4 table spoons of coconut oil and two eggs a day if someone is hypoglycemic and has a slow metabolism.)

 

[narouz]

You are stupendously welcome here--let's just talk about an Optimal Peat Diet. :)

Of course, narouz. I see you have been struggling with this for a year now.
Who should the "optimal diet" be for?

man/woman?
under 12/older than 12?
before/after puberty?
before/after menopause?
prenant/trying to get pregnant/get partner pregnant?
willing to use supplements/not willing to try supplements?
trying to gain/lose weight?
any surgeries?
organs removed? thyroid gland? ovaries? uterus? thymus gland? kidney?
any autoimmun diseases?
any food/ other intolerances?
vitamin levels?
estrogen/progesterone/testosterone/prolactin level?
drugs used so far/still being used? (beta blockers, statines, the pill, marcumar, insulin e.c.)
existing disease at the moment/just trying to be as healthy as possible?
exercising?
sun exposure?
job?
tastes? (What do/don't they like to eat/drink?)
place of residence? (Sun, radiation, carbon dioxide, availability of foods e.c.)
current condition? (Doesn't make a lot of sense to start with 4 table spoons of coconut oil and two eggs a day if someone is hypoglycemic and has a slow metabolism.)

Thank you for the salient questions, Rayser!
Your questions are good ones and legitimate ones.

If you will read back through the thread
you will see that I have struggled with, among other things,
the best title for such a diet.

The excellent poster Ray-Z did not much like the title word "optimal,"
and I conceded I had my problems with that descriptor too.
My thought at the time in using it ran something like this:
"Why set as a goal the definition of a "Crappy Peat Diet"
or "Half-**** Peat Diet"...?
Why not shoot for defining an excellent Peat-derived diet or...an "optimal" one...?

But as I say, I am not completely comfortable with such a title.

More recently in the thread you will see
that I have been floating the title
"Starting Point Peat-Derived Diet."

That sounds better to me in terms of its denotations and connotations.
And perhaps it might be more congenial for you as well.

I have never disputed your general implication
that we should not seek to distill a "one size fits all" Peat-derived diet.
I reiterated this--and many other qualifications--back on page 42 of this thread:

...what I'm trying to do
is to distill all of Peat's many generalizations
about the nature, ratios, and methods of his suggested good diet
into chart form--or more likely charts form.

And as I've tried to qualify, those generalized charts would:
-would be Peat derived (not created by me)
-would be as accurate and faithful to Peat as possible
-would not be some one-size-fits-all straightjacket
-would not be regarded as final or written in stone
-would be intended as an approximate starting point, revisable
-would allow for a great variety of different specific variations
-would not claim Peat's endorsement
-would not be created for commercial purposes or under commercial influences
-would be called something reflecting these goals: maybe something like
"Starting Point, Peat-Derived Diet" or somesuch
-would not be a mere list of approved and disapproved foods,
although I would hasten to add that listing is not a dirty word in my book
and sometimes can be used to good purpose, like our lists of good Peat fruits.
I don't see anything wrong with that sort of thing.
-would attempt to simplify (to generalize) but not to oversimplify (be simple-minded)

There are other qualifications which could be made I'm sure,
but you get the idea.
The goal is not to be authoritarian or commercial or dumb.

Even though deriving such a generalization
would need to be heavily qualified
and would be limited in its application,
I think it would still serve a lot of very useful purposes.
Just to toss out a few (I note others more thoroughly back through the thread):

-every time a newbie came to the forum and asked yet again
for one of us to describe for them what, generally, a Peat diet consists of,
instead of wearing out our typing fingers repeating the same thing for the zillionth time
we could just point him/her to the "Starting Point Peat Derived Diet" chart/s.
-it would make our board more scientific,
in the sense that, over time, if Peatians claimed health improvements,
we could substantiate such claims by asking
if they were eating something like the "Starting Point Peat Derived Diet."
-likewise, if someone said they had been eating a Peat diet for a long time
and had still not seen improvements,
we could ask how their diet matched up (or not) with the "Starting Point Peat Derived Diet."
-as Charlie has noted, many times when people come here
they are brain-fogged and exhausted;
pointing them towards a "Starting Point Peat Derived Diet"
would, I think, be very much welcomed by such a novice,
rather than coldly saying to them "there is no Peat diet"
or "read through Peat's articles and listen to his interviews and you will see."
I know I would've appreciated such a chart/charts and descriptions.
-having such a distillation would make all of our many explorations on this forum
much more meaningful.
Charlie, for instance, once started a poll:
"How Strictly Do You Do Your Peat Diet?"--or something to that effect.
Well...how does one meaningfully answer such a poll if we have no clear guideline
as to what a Peat diet is,
or deny that there even is one?
-unless we seek to intentionally hide Peat's knowledge from the rest of the 99.99% non-Peatians on the planet,
or to intentionally make it more difficult for them to begin to understand,
or if we are so misanthropic that we just say "I don't give a f**k about those 99.99%!,
they're stupid and can go to hell for all I care!"
(and, truly, many posters here have proudly announced that is precisely their stance!)--
unless we have those kinds of motivations,
I think it behooves us to declare with some concision and clarity
what our diet consists of.
Or at least a general, starting point description of such a diet.