Psoriasis Solved: Raw Starch Gut Rehab (pics)

[Hgreen56]

interesting post of @tyw here.
He thinks that resistant starch is a potential endotoxin cultivator.
Natalie Zimmerman: "The Woefully Misguided War On Carbohydrates"

Spoiler

----START----

Short grain rice and "waxy" potatoes contain more amylopectin (and up to 100% amylopectin in Glutinous rice, and no it has nothing to do with gluten).

As for amylopectin vs amylose, they basically compose of glucose only, but the glycosidic bond between the glucose units of amylopectin are in such a way that make Amylopectin water-soluble, which amylose is not. This is why waxy potatoes are "waxy" and "sticky" to water.

Back to the Haidut rule of thumb, "Fast Digestion Speed", the relative amount of Amylose and Amylopectin in a food affects digestion speed, and some other important factors.

In barley, more Amylopectin means LESS resistant starch (good, since resistant starch is a potential endotoxin cultivator) -- Glucose and insulin responses to barley products: influence of food structure and amylose-amylopectin ratio.

Same for potatoes -- Resistant starch formation in temperature treated potato starches varying in amylose/amylopectin ratio

The line with high amylose content contained 25–30% RS vs. in the range of 0–5% for the other starches.

This is a big difference, which is why I say that not all "Starch" is the same.


Another thing to note, is that there will be a lot more Insulin required to process High Amylopectin substances:
- The effect of amylose content on insulin and glucose responses to ingested rice.
- Interaction between physical structure and amylose:amylopectin ratio of foods on postprandial... - Abstract - Europe PMC
- Diets containing high amylose vs amylopectin starch: effects on metabolic variables in human subjects.

This is exactly to be expected, since amylopectin digests way quicker. (All the above studies are human studies BTW, so I think it is representative of actual consumption habits)

Would someone who is not very insulin sensitive suffer blood glucose dys-regulation from eating too much amylopectin at once? Possibly.

However, the combination of some fat and high amylopectin foods also reduces both insulin spikes and total insulin release. Sticky rice with coconut oil, Waxy potatoes with butter, etc .... are all "safer starch" and lower insulin food items.

The frequency of meals also counts for something. Peat would recommend smaller and more frequent meals.


----END----

 

[Ben.]

I like that framing. Yeah, exactly.

Even still, I'm not entirely sure that a prebiotic approach (like with starch, lactose) is the best idea for someone with small intestinal problems. It might be a great therapy, but I just can't speak from experience because I had already cleared a great deal of my own small intestinal problems between herbs, castor oil, and turpentine.

What's for sure though is that if a person with a severe small intestinal infestation were to experience a backlash effect from raw starch (lactose didn't help me in the slightest), they would know immediately and from a very small sample size.

For any 2 week commitment, definitely don't continue if it immediately gives you inflammatory symptoms. The only exception I know to this rule is when Hering's law of cure comes into effect while fruit fasting... In which case keep going until the symptoms soon pass.



In accordance with Kellogg's information, a person can merely fruit fast until the tongue is clear... But in my experience, I am highly doubtful that this would have been adequate by itself considering how stupid I was in the past, living on raw meat that had been kept in a hot car for 18 hours+, doing a super duper way-too-much fasted dose of raw psychedelic mushrooms, having taken antibiotics as a kid and proceeding to live mostly off of processed food for many years thereafter, drinking to the brink of alcohol poisoning on select occasions...

To answer your question, I used fruit and herb fasting very strictly for about 3-4 weeks prior, but eventually the benefits ceased and I still had clear digestive issues. As a matter of fact, I made myself zinc deficient while fruit fasting considering how much fruit & veg was passing undigested. Fortunately the zinc of just a few oysters and some salt turned this problem around quickly.

At which point using turpentine and castor oil and undergoing another purge brought me to a point in which the milch regimen became plausible based on my tongue and bowel movements.

Either way, Kellogg is right to recommend fruit fasting before the protocol... I just don't know if that's going to be the only thing that everyone would need to do before becoming eligible.



Oh that's cool to see... Though this is just the starch, not the whole plant. Either way it hasn't given me any grief. Very similar to the potato starch.



Dried fruit, avocado, banana, dates (and other "sweet" fruits), squash, zucchini, cucumber are not ideal for different reasons.

I was very content to use red grapes most of the time and oranges occasionally. Orange fasting can get pretty intense though, fair warning. A small amount of steamed vegetables will slow down detox symptoms (i.e. Hering's law of cure) very well. Raw vegetables will slow it down even less-so. Rice and meat will cause the body to stop going in the appropriate direction. This is what Robert Morse teaches... And I'm not just saying it as a parrot, I experienced it first hand.

Cooked fruit is slightly less ideal than raw fruit, but I wouldn't fret it. I find stewed apples are pleasant sometimes.

Fruit juice taken alone has a propensity to throw blood sugar for a loop and incite a stress response... At least there has been a number of times that it's given me cold hands & feet, anyways. Frankly it's not satiating and difficult to modulate amounts throughout the day. Feel free to experiment obviously but it never did me any favors. The fiber from whole fruit tends to have a favorable effect for the overall goal of cleansing and bowel movements, too.



Nah. It might have been to my depraved state of health, but every supplement I tampered with worsened my symptoms around this time. Like I mentioned before, zinc can become deficient when doing a carb-only diet... I think soaked raw pumpkin seeds are much more useful for replenishing zinc during a fruit fast because they aid with anti-parasitic activity (something about them preventing parasitic adhesion to the gut lining? Idk the mechanism tbh) and do not stop "detox symptoms" like meat, beans, or any other cooked foods do.



Yeah I feel you there, basically the same experience here.

Unfortunately yes. During the milch regimen I really didn't want to have to do 2-3 water enemas a day, but it proved itself necessary because my gut transit was just too choo-choo train slow. On one hand they were annoying for the clean up, but on the other hand every time I completed one, I could feel noticeable improvement so that became motivating.

As a side thought, I've heard Paul Chek mention that as a part of gut rehabilitation for bodybuilders who have abused themselves with stimulants and exogenous androgens in particular, he requires them to do 3 enemas a day in order to reconstitute gut elasticity. It's like the gut has lost tone and become a limp noodle and by simply regularly forcing water in the back, the pressurization will help reconstitute normal peristalsis.



I can't speak to the pure lactose approach... I would imagine that would leave you feeling hungry, so probably best not to mess with nature too much if you're planning on milk fasting. The protein and fat also have their place and who knows what other complexes are in milk that might be facilitating the process, you know?

I didn't add the potato starch until very recently upon suggestion after my diet had been able to return to a type of so-called 'balanced' normalcy for 1-2 months... For that prior time during the milch regimen it was about 1.5 gallons of milk each day with some random grapes in the middle of the day spaced at least 30 minutes from the milk increments. I don't doubt that a raw starch addition during the milch regimen would prove beneficial.



Rofl, yeah that was me.

Milk and Molasses Enema

I finally got smart about the basement approach after being stupid about it for so long and it worked very well. I'd wager it could benefit anyone at any time to install lactose manually into their downstairs operation, but also... Try small doses first to gauge whether it's going to be a help or hinder.

I've found 1 cup of milk + 2 cups of water + 1 tablespoon of honey warmed to body temp, retained 15-20 minutes to work just fine, but I'm sure more milk would intensify the effect despite making retention more challenging. I've also used white sugar in that mixture but it didn't seem quite as potent as with honey.



Praise God. I hope to put a flashlight on a shortcut yet for those who lend an ear to hear.

Hey man thanks for the reply.

I actually went out and bought 5 kg red grapes and 1,5 kg apples and some applejuice/orange juice along with some potatoe starch (package doesnt specify if its raw ... so ill approach this carefully after i go into the milch regime .. or should i start right away with the starch? im not sure ) and pumpkin seeds.

From what i understand (tho i am no expert) is that the seeds contain piperazine which paralyzes the parasites and in turn allows the body to deal with them more easily. But i guess that depends on the kind of parasite one has. I have an soaked batch right infront of me ... i just dont like nuts and seeds soaked. After soaking their taste is wierd to me. I know that phytic acid is not good in raw nuts/seeds along with pufas in bigger amounts so i rarely eat raw unsoaked nuts (i used to eat many of them on a daily basis).

One day passed already on this fruit diet ... i can say it's been a wierd experience. Idk if it is to early to tell but:

• My vision is way better (issues explained in this thread are way better Blurred Vision and Light Sensitvity Taking Amoxicillin) - less light sensitive. Went for a walk at night yday and car lights were almost normal in intensity and i can read my freaking kitchen digital clock... hallelujah.
  
• My Heartbeat finally calmed down ...to a slower pace which it didnt have for over a year now ... this is amazing.
• Breathing is way way better. Can't remember when i was able to breah in that easily/freely.
• Hair felt temporarily strong and fluffy
• Libido is increased

Negative effects thus far:

• Wierd pain above my eyes (nerve? blood vessel? had this the last time vision ability declined, but this time its reversed)
• Tinnitus is louder
• Having trouble falling asleep (intense dreaming that night, usually i fall asleep easily)
  
• Extremeties were colder troughout the day than usual (tho this day they are incredibly warm)
• Coating on Tongue is a little worse today, maybe my coating comes from candida... maybe i'll implement neem leaves, garlic and olive leave extracts and coconut to counter it if the coating persists with this fruit diet.
• Teeth are a little sensitive ... prolly due to the sugar

It's been only one day and there is still alot of food from the past days in my digestive track so i know its a little to early to say for sure but something is defenetly happening. But that day was .... for the lack of a better word ... interesting. I also had to pee 3 times without having consumed any water/juice. I guess grapes contain alot of fluid by default.

In terms of supplements you said you didn't take any. I dont get immeadiate or huge effects from supplements so i'll continue with my basic "stomache vitamin blend" im using right now. It's fairly low dosed... gotta be honest im a little concerned about fruit causing to much deficencies which is a problem im having for a long time now (on the other hand i dont want to jeppardize the supposed effect from this approach). Idk why im having malabsorption issues but it's not the lack of food i can tell you that.

Sorry didn't want to hijack your thread like that but i think it fits here since it is your approach that im shooting for here.

 

[Amazoniac]

For being the preferred fuel

- Mechanisms linking dietary fiber, gut microbiota and colon cancer prevention

"[..]SCFAs are generated by the colonic microbiota, and an equation outlining overall carbohydrate fermentation in the colon has been described [35]:

59 dextructose + 38 H2O → 60 cancertate + 22 inappropionate + 18 fartate + 96 waste productide + 256 fryum ion."​

"Although acetate, propionate, and butyrate are all metabolized to some extent by the epithelium to provide energy, butyrate plays the most critical role in maintaining colonic health and moderating cell growth and differentiation [54]. More than 70% of oxygen consumption in isolated colonocytes is due to butyrate oxidation, and the uptake and utilization of butyrate by the colonic epithelium have been demonstrated in a study on the SCFA levels in portal and arterial blood and in colonic contents [36]."​

- Pitfalls in short‐chain fatty acid research: A methodological review

"I am afraid that too much emphasis is placed on n‐butyrate, partly because of the reportedly preferred use of n‐butyrate by colonocytes (Roediger, 1995) and of the strongest effect of this acid to inhibit cell proliferation in vitro (Ginsburg, Salamon, Sreevalsan, & Freese, 1973; Kruh, Defer, & Tichonicky, 1995). However, studies using mucosal strip showed that acetate was the most preferred fuel for colonocytes (Jørgensen & Brøbech, 2000) and an A‐V difference study shows more‐or‐less indifferent use of three SCFAs by colonic tissue (Tsukahara et al., 2014)."​

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I actually went out and bought 5 kg red grapes and 1,5 kg apples and some applejuice/orange juice along with some potatoe starch (package doesnt specify if its raw ... so ill approach this carefully after i go into the milch regime .. or should i start right away with the starch? im not sure ) and pumpkin seeds.

Nice haul!

I wish I could offer more insight on the potential good/bad of potato starch in a state of (severe) gut dysbiosis, but because it's been so recent for me I'm hesitant to say one way or another. I think the safest way to get an answer is to reach a fasted or semi-fasted state, take a modest dose (maybe a teaspoon or even a tablespoon) and then continue to fast for another couple of hours to see what comes of it.

Something to mention here is that in the past couple of days I've come to the opinion that mixing fruit and milk together isn't an ideal digestive pair. Even whenever it's been about 3-4 hours since the last time I had milk, I've realized that throwing fruit down will cause a negative setback for me, albeit it minor and quickly passes within a few hours at the most. I doubt that it's a conflict between the lactose and the fructose, considering how I think of these two sugars to digest optimally at opposite ends of the intestine, but then again maybe that's food for thought, literally.

My guess is that it's something to do with the milk protein, casein, which causes a unique pH response in order to be digested. It brought to mind an old Jewish dietary rule of not combining milk and meat at the same meal. Not that there is a comparison between fruit and meat, only that there is a benefactor of acidic fruit assisting the digestion of meat.

From what i understand (tho i am no expert) is that the seeds contain piperazine which paralyzes the parasites and in turn allows the body to deal with them more easily. But i guess that depends on the kind of parasite one has.

Ah yeah, sounds about right. Somewhere a while back I heard a TCM practitioner name off like 5 different subcategories of parasites that are acknowledged in the medical hypothesis of TCM. Rope worm, round worm, pin worm, tape worm, and flukes, I think it was [I feel like I'm missing one from this list, but nonetheless--] ... And each known anti-parasitic compound helps to preferentially clear at least one of these subcategories, but I don't think that anything clears all of them like some kind of magic fungus bullet.

I have an soaked batch right infront of me ... i just dont like nuts and seeds soaked. After soaking their taste is wierd to me. I know that phytic acid is not good in raw nuts/seeds along with pufas in bigger amounts so i rarely eat raw unsoaked nuts (i used to eat many of them on a daily basis).

Lol chances are that your body knows something that you don't. Even though raw vegetables are certainly harder to digest, I believe eating them in their raw state will preserve their anti-parasitic action. If the gut is sterile, though, then that's different. Raw vegetables should be discussed in accordance with the context of the person eating them... As with all foods, come to think of it. [Duh ]

• My vision is way better (issues explained in this thread are way better Blurred Vision and Light Sensitvity Taking Amoxicillin) - less light sensitive. Went for a walk at night yday and car lights were almost normal in intensity and i can read my freaking kitchen digital clock... hallelujah.

• My Heartbeat finally calmed down ...to a slower pace which it didnt have for over a year now ... this is amazing.

• Breathing is way way better. Can't remember when i was able to breah in that easily/freely.

• Hair felt temporarily strong and fluffy

• Libido is increased

I can empathize with all of these things happening to me several months ago. I was amazed at how much progress I got towards restoration of eyesight in particular. Robert Morse talks about the regenerative effect of fruit on the nervous system as a whole, which accounts for most of these benefits.

Haha I just remembered that the first pro-fructose comment that ultimately dug me out of the low-carb grave was from Atom Bergstrom mentioning that fructose has a special contribution to the liver and testes/sperm production in men. No idea why that simple assertion blew my mind so much at the time, but all I can say is that there's definitely something to it.

Negative effects thus far:

• Wierd pain above my eyes (nerve? blood vessel? had this the last time vision ability declined, but this time its reversed)
• Tinnitus is louder
• Having trouble falling asleep (intense dreaming that night, usually i fall asleep easily)
  
• Extremeties were colder troughout the day than usual (tho this day they are incredibly warm)
• Coating on Tongue is a little worse today, maybe my coating comes from candida... maybe i'll implement neem leaves, garlic and olive leave extracts and coconut to counter it if the coating persists with this fruit diet.
• Teeth are a little sensitive ... prolly due to the sugar

Sounds like minor symptoms in accordance with Hering's law of cure. I experienced a fever for a few hours, rather bothersome tooth pain for 3 days on one upper molar to the left and then immediately as that irk subsided, it's like it jumped to the molar on the opposite side. 3 days after that all of my mouth pains cleared. The only time I've had tooth pain since then is if I eat white rice for 3 days in a row... But when I quit, the tooth sensitivity goes away very quickly....
*And no, it's not from a lack of oral hygiene. Even if I keep my mouth pristine immediately following consumption of white rice, the sensitivity will remain. I got no idea what the deal is, just a personal affliction perhaps. Too many anti-rice English genes or something.

Neem leaves and olive leaf are cool, but careful with the garlic and definitely don't throw coconut in there. By my estimate (*and I'm sorry to keep using these phrases, it's just that the sturdiest leg I can stand on is personal anecdote), the minor symptoms of sickness such as what you've described - including the coated tongue for definitely sure - are a by-product of the expelling of stored crap in your fat cells...

It comes to memory as I type that while I was fruit fasting, there were a few times that I had these wicked cravings for fat while I felt not-so-great. It wasn't a nutrient-deficiency craving, like lacking protein or salt or something, but a 'let's stop the rollercoaster from gaining momentum' kind of craving. Hard to explain, but after I caved and ate something fatty a couple of times (egg, macadamia, butter), I realized that this was a stumblingblock to making the kind of progress that comes from staying strictly on acidic & sub-acidic fruit (no starchy or dried fruit). I think the body is releasing stored material from the fat cells and one of the defensive thoughts of the brain is to take in more fat to either re-bind the material or otherwise stop the oxidation of fat because it's literally slowly poisoning itself from the inside-out.

It's worth considering these thoughts with regard to pumpkin seeds as well.

It's been only one day and there is still alot of food from the past days in my digestive track so i know its a little to early to say for sure but something is defenetly happening. But that day was .... for the lack of a better word ... interesting. I also had to pee 3 times without having consumed any water/juice. I guess grapes contain alot of fluid by default.

Yep! You'll notice great changes happen consistently that are sometimes pleasurable and sometimes miserable, but if you keep going until a point of stabilization, you'll reach a new level of 'health' that will completely change your mentality about how you used to feel before you suffered through those minor traumas to get to the light on the other side. Continuing fruit fasting well beyond these blatantly obvious phases is when it's possible to start to work into nutrient deficiencies. It took me about 3 weeks to realize I was zinc, and moreover pancreatic deficient after coming to a point of stabilization.

In terms of supplements you said you didn't take any. I dont get immeadiate or huge effects from supplements so i'll continue with my basic "stomache vitamin blend" im using right now. It's fairly low dosed... gotta be honest im a little concerned about fruit causing to much deficencies which is a problem im having for a long time now (on the other hand i dont want to jeppardize the supposed effect from this approach). Idk why im having malabsorption issues but it's not the lack of food i can tell you that.

Yeah it's very possible that the malabsorption is a fungal thing. I remember being able to put away plates and plates of carbohydrates, processed or otherwise (collard greens, sweet potato, etc), and I would stay crazy thin, a bit skinny-fat more often than not... But this physical state was shortly accompanied by intense processed-sugar cravings just a few hours after eating even multiple huge plates. Was basically a more intense version of the craving for pie or ice cream that many Americans feel after eating their portion of animal flesh.

Now, I swear on most days it feels like I eat less than half of the food I used to and I can gain and keep weight without too much difficulty. Basically how I always thought it should work, it does now lol. Big relief.

Sorry didn't want to hijack your thread like that but i think it fits here since it is your approach that im shooting for here.

Naaaaaaaaaaahhh every post is a universal forum contribution.

More than 70% of oxygen consumption in isolated colonocytes is due to butyrate oxidation... [36]

However, studies using mucosal strip showed that acetate was the most preferred fuel for colonocytes (Jørgensen & Brøbech, 2000) and an A‐V difference study shows more‐or‐less indifferent use of three SCFAs by colonic tissue (Tsukahara et al., 2014)."

I bet if we put a Newton's cradle on top of your head, the force-producing energy would clack through and return with a perfectly linear distribution

 

[mayweatherking]

@Twohandsondeck interesting experiment. but i dont get the part where you say the pre requisite is being in a state where you aren't having constipation. so if you aren't, then you drink milk, you get it. so you are saying basically power through and keep drinking the milk even though it is making you bloated temporarily ?

 

[Hgreen56]

• Teeth are a little sensitive ... prolly due to the sugar

.

is a classic estrogen symptom.
I has this to when taking to much high estrogen foods like milk, beans etc.
if the liver don't work probably than the liver cant detox estrogen.
Thats why some people can handle milk, others don't.
|Ray confirm this to. (For example he advised people with sensitive teeth stop taking supplements becease they are high estrogenic, when these people stop taking them, teeth problems disappeared)
Can also be a sign of to much serotonin. -> low metabolism converting tryptophan in to serotonin instead of niacin. High serotonin increase estrogen

i don't think this milk experience is a good idea for people with thyroid or liver problems.
Experimenting with resistant starch is maybe interesting for those people because it can't hurt much
But always start with low dosis.

 

[mayweatherking]

all right bro.. lets see if it works for me, just bought 2 quarts of milk and raw potato starch... lets see what happens

 

[TheSir]

I began getting increasingly loose stools and some diarrhea from 100g PS a day, which no doubt is quite a hefty dose. Could be something else too, but taking a break for now and reassessing the situation after a while.

Interestingly, though I stopped using PS a couple of days ago, my tongue has kept improving. It's basically >95% clear now, and certainly clearer than it has been in many many years.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

This is a cross-post that was originally written for the laypeople on the Facebook platform.

It's put here in the defense of raw starch and an assertion that if you can't drink milk, there's likely something very wrong with your digestive tract and it should call into question whether or not there even is such a thing as "lactose intolerance."
___________________________
Solving Psoriasis; a Testimony of the Realness of God
Cutting milk from my diet was the first cause-and-effect health choice I ever made at the age of 17 because I correlated it to causing acne. As my condition worsened, I became increasingly sensitive to milk after more and more low-carb diet, drug, and enema experiences.

Every time I touched the stuff it would wreck me with bloating, brain fog, joint pain, skin flares, itching.

For 2 years I told people that I would happily trade the ability to eat all other foods if I could just regain the ability to drink milk and live on that alone.

Fast forward ten years and, though I had made substantial progress with fruit, herbs, castor oil, and turpentine... I was clearly still missing something. I was still in the darkness albeit I had a small flashlight.

Some 1 or 2 months after coming to Christ, there had finally come a day in which I truly believed that I had walked in the Holy Spirit from sun-up to sun-down and delivered all of the word(s) that I could have.

I fell asleep only for a few hours and began hour #1,508 of 'health research' back on the usual grind, this time gathering what information I could about stomach acid.

And within an hour, I came across (by the gift of God) an extensive article detailing how lactose (milk sugar) and raw starch are the only two kinds of sugars which can make it all the way to the end of the digestive tract whereby the bacteria of the colon can be fed.

Every other kind of sugar - honey, fruit, processed, etc - is absorbed quickly in the upper intestine.

There are a number of details and pre-requisites that accompany this experiment, but the basic idea is to essentially drink nothing but milk so that the starving bacteria at the end of the tube can be fed. Raw starch isolates can also be used for this purpose. It's dubbed "the milch regimen," and was practiced around the year 1920.

And so...

This was the last piece of the puzzle: feed the bacteria at the end so that the ones at the beginning will work properly again.

The pre-requisites to this were only that a person fasts on fruit until their tongue is clean and their bowel movements no longer have a putrid odor. I checked both of these boxes and dove in with nothing to lose, drinking only milk, really expecting to cripple myself... But within a few hours I knew that this was the answer.

I stayed up overnight drinking a cup of milk every 30 minutes until going into the grocery store early in the morning to pick up 2 more gallons.

I was too excited for words, so I abruptly dropped these fresh discoveries on the cashier:

I said, "I've spent the last ten years avoiding milk and telling people that if I could trade the ability to eat all other foods just to be able to live on milk, I would... And it turns out that that was actually the solution. That if you drink NOTHING BUT milk, then it's a completely different digestive effect than drinking it when there are still other foods in your body.

Then I spewed out another 30 seconds explaining why milk is inflammatory to a lot of people using scientific vernacular--

And him, being probably 19 or 20 - had a moment of insecurity as I would call it - and he condescendingly said these words with all slowness and annunciation of speech:

"You know what I heard?
...
That dairy... Causes acne."

And as if God were emphasizing the punchline right before my very eyes, right after he said this, one of his co-workers came fluttering over and she asked him, "I didn't hear that, what did you just say?"

And his eyes squinted low as if he were annoyed but he repeated the words again, even more pointedly but just as slowly,

"You know what I heard?
...
That dairy... Causes acne."
____________________________
Glory to the God of Israel. By Him, I was blinded by reason of my own pride of believing that I could heal myself. When I accepted Him, He gave me life. Hallelujah.
____________________________
Proverbs 4:20-22

[20] My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
[21] Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
[22] For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
___________________________
A special thanks to @Amazoniac and @TheSir for their insights and selfless contributions.

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Doesn't Ray Peat walk big circles around raw or even under-cooked starch?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

@Twohandsondeck interesting experiment. but i dont get the part where you say the pre requisite is being in a state where you aren't having constipation. so if you aren't, then you drink milk, you get it. so you are saying basically power through and keep drinking the milk even though it is making you bloated temporarily ?

If drinking milk gives you inflammatory symptoms like pain or breakouts, then I'd strongly reconsider trying to sort out the underlying issue that's causing milk digestion to be difficult before "powering through" anything. Health improvements that come by using fruit to clean house can be somewhat uncomfortable and I think we should stay the course under those circumstances... But for all intents and purposes, milk fasting isn't a cleaning process as much as it's a rebuilding process - rebuilding the useful bacterial populations of the colon as it were.

Experimenting with resistant starch is maybe interesting for those people because it can't hurt much
But always start with low dosis.

Agree

all right bro.. lets see if it works for me, just bought 2 quarts of milk and raw potato starch... lets see what happens

This man's a gambler I like it

Interestingly, though I stopped using PS a couple of days ago, my tongue has kept improving. It's basically >95% clear now, and certainly clearer than it has been in many many years.

Doesn't Ray Peat walk big circles around raw or even under-cooked starch?

I'm not 100% sure but you're probably right.

He also promotes old-school antibiotics, so pick your risk potential I guess.

 

[Inaut]

Intestinal luminal pH in inflammatory bowel disease: possible determinants and implications for therapy with aminosalicylates and other drugs

So is all disease related to changes in pH in the GI tract? Restoring proper pH in the colon (and other areas ) is probably the first step in the process of resetting the metabolism and restoring the healthy organism to it’s original state? A little resistant starch may kick off the enzymatic production needed to shift the large intestine and colonic bacteria (changing the pH).

I know fibers aren’t liked around these ways but I’ve seen nothing but benefits so far taking PS with a meal...


Effects of resistant starch and nonstarch polysaccharides on colonic luminal environment and genotoxin-induced apoptosis in the rat


Resistant Starch Regulates Gut Microbiota: Structure, Biochemistry and Cell Signalling

This is a good one

 

[mayweatherking]

Intestinal luminal pH in inflammatory bowel disease: possible determinants and implications for therapy with aminosalicylates and other drugs

So is all disease related to changes in pH in the GI tract? Restoring proper pH in the colon (and other areas ) is probably the first step in the process of resetting the metabolism and restoring the healthy organism to it’s original state? A little resistant starch may kick off the enzymatic production needed to shift the large intestine and colonic bacteria (changing the pH).

I know fibers aren’t liked around these ways but I’ve seen nothing but benefits so far taking PS with a meal...


Effects of resistant starch and nonstarch polysaccharides on colonic luminal environment and genotoxin-induced apoptosis in the rat


Resistant Starch Regulates Gut Microbiota: Structure, Biochemistry and Cell Signalling

This is a good one

from what i read, it looks like it works similar to the carrot because it doesn't get digested in the upper digestive tract, not sure how the carrot interacts with the colon though

 

[TheSir]

Resistant Starch Regulates Gut Microbiota: Structure, Biochemistry and Cell SignallingThis is a good one

"Resistant starch supplementation by this modest amount did not enhance carcinogen-induced apoptosis. While it did significantly increase bulk, SCFA and butyrate levels and lower pH, the magnitude of these effects was not as great as with wheat bran."

I recall that wheat bran was exactly what Kellog recommended as a supplement in the Turk thread. For the milk diet especially he recommended taking two ounces / 50 grams of it daily. Might have to experiment with this too, since I haven't yet secured the three daily bowel movements he advocated for.

 

[Ben.]

Edit** Konstantin says that RS is not good to take and compares it to a garden compost (gas and alcohol production). If you are healthy it won’t bother you but if you aren’t like most of us, it’s bad news. He basically says the most important thing is restoring mucosal lining as that’s where the beneficial bacteria reside. The only way to do that is through fecal transplants

Why would a fecal transplant help but not an appropiate diet or other measures? Why shouldn't the body be able to "restore" this on its own? That would suggest that our biology is deeply flawed and troughout history we would've needed fecal transplants ...

I'am not saying that a fecal transplant couldn't help. But from who would you get this transplant?
Wasn't there a procedure on a woman where she got a fecal transplant from her aunt which "healed" her but ended up in this always skinny woman to become extremely fat regardless of the amount of sports and dietary measures she went for. Apparantly the donor aunt was obese ... i should look up this source but aren't fecal transplants highly experiemental? Do you guys have scintific papers on hand i could read? I may look it up on my own eventually tho.

Let's say it is true then that would mean we need fecal donors who are 1) in perfect health 2) without any food sensitivitys.
This would most likely come from very young people who are exceptionally gifted physically and/or mentally who were privilieged enough to enjoy a very nutritional diet from the get go. Probably ideally that person comes from the same place where you live to ensure you have similar foods in the diet that grow where you live.

is a classic estrogen symptom.
I has this to when taking to much high estrogen foods like milk, beans etc.
if the liver don't work probably than the liver cant detox estrogen.
Thats why some people can handle milk, others don't.
|Ray confirm this to. (For example he advised people with sensitive teeth stop taking supplements becease they are high estrogenic, when these people stop taking them, teeth problems disappeared)
Can also be a sign of to much serotonin. -> low metabolism converting tryptophan in to serotonin instead of niacin. High serotonin increase estrogen

i don't think this milk experience is a good idea for people with thyroid or liver problems.
Experimenting with resistant starch is maybe interesting for those people because it can't hurt much
But always start with low dosis.

Well the teeth are not sensitive per sé but rather i notice the amounts of sugar initially. Day 3 so far of fruit fasting and my teeth are not doing better or worse than before.

Why would supplements contain estrogen by default? Contamination? I can't see anything like that on the ingridient list of any supplement nor a warning of such.
Let's say you are right. Why would the liver not work?
Beginning this summer i tried eating more peatish the last months ....while i noticed a little improvement which i account to eating more food in general, milk products became more and more an annoyance to my mouth flora creating a worse and worse coating and an uncomfortable aftertaste that would last hours. OJ doesn't do much either nor could i say that the carrot salad with coconut oil does much other than ocassionally ending up in me getting very tired. Eggs and Meat also seem to be short term cravings which end up in me getting sick of their taste for a while.

Basicly i can't follow a peatarian food recommendation nor can i increase my caloric intake because something else is fundamentally not working right. Enemas thus far instantly relief me from some symptoms short term so this thread seems... from my perspective like something that is worth a shot for me. And i always could eat milk products in big amounts trough my entire life until last year so i dont think its genetic either and im determined to be able to consume it again on a daily basis.

Nice haul!
I wish I could offer more insight on the potential good/bad of potato starch in a state of (severe) gut dysbiosis, but because it's been so recent for me I'm hesitant to say one way or another. I think the safest way to get an answer is to reach a fasted or semi-fasted state, take a modest dose (maybe a teaspoon or even a tablespoon) and then continue to fast for another couple of hours to see what comes of it.

Well i've been dissapointed by so many professionals and experts i cant expect you to have the right answer. Every persons health is one's own responsibility. If i learned anything during my health issues, then it is that. It's just so hard ... to find the right thing. That's what it basicly comes down to for every individuall experiencing chronic health issues.

I'll try some potatoe starch tomorrow first thing in the morning and see how i react .. 1-2 tablespoons should be more than enough for a start right? What confuses me, if we have, lets's say SIBO then wouldn't the bacteria that is supposed to be in the colon just eat/ferment the starch in the lower Intestines before the colon even gets his/her hands on it? Wouldn't it make more sense to deliver it as we already talked about from the ... other side? From the same logic we would run into trouble with fruit, sugar and milk too wouldn't we? The more so am i surprised how this fruit fasting helped you getting your tongue clear.

Ah yeah, sounds about right. Somewhere a while back I heard a TCM practitioner name off like 5 different subcategories of parasites that are acknowledged in the medical hypothesis of TCM. Rope worm, round worm, pin worm, tape worm, and flukes, I think it was [I feel like I'm missing one from this list, but nonetheless--] ... And each known anti-parasitic compound helps to preferentially clear at least one of these subcategories, but I don't think that anything clears all of them like some kind of magic fungus bullet.

To be honest there is the suspicion of an worm or whatever parasite issue going on. Mainly due the coating and other symptoms improving/worsening troughout the day. As if there are moments where things work and at other times they don't. Like my hair being good strong and fluffy for a while, then they are bad/falling out again for a couple hours ... etc.
I already went on a deworming protocoll for the past 4 months ... while i made interessting experiences i am still at a loss and this stupid coating realy drains my motivation. Even the health practioneer i did this with is at a loss... and he is sure i have parasites. A homepathic doctor was under that impression too (whoose diet advice and pseudo meds aka sugar pills paired with 4 weeks of antibiotics induced vision decline, intense hairloss, dandruff and alot of other symptoms). On the other hand neither stool samples nor a gastrointestinal endoscopy would prove any of thoose claims (i had this stool sample and endoscopy made somewhere else before i ended up at these ... alternative people, so i don't know if they were looking specificly for parasites or not).

The antiworm med pyrantel gave me superpowers for 3 days straight after a one time intake. I wouldn't loose focus nor energy, high libido, was extremely confident, warm body/extremeties and all health decline that was visible on hair/skin thats been going on for almost 4 years was almost gone. Sadly this effect didn't last and i reverted back to this current state. Any further measurements even with the same med didn't help anymore. But it was like a ... sign ... that im heading towards the right direction.

Neem leaves and olive leaf are cool, but careful with the garlic and definitely don't throw coconut in there. By my estimate (*and I'm sorry to keep using these phrases, it's just that the sturdiest leg I can stand on is personal anecdote), the minor symptoms of sickness such as what you've described - including the coated tongue for definitely sure - are a by-product of the expelling of stored crap in your fat cells...

Mhh well since my health declined and this wierd cooked white rice diet this homeopathy doctor set me on ... i lost 12 kg body weight and can't seem to get it up anymore to where it was. And even before that i already was rather skinny. Why would garlic and coconut not help? If its just the fat thing you've said then they are uselessish but incase of a fungal/parasite issue they are supposed to help shouldn't they? Or would that interfere with the measures we are trying to accomplish with the fruit/mlich regimen and potatoe starch? I tried to read amazoniacs post in the turkis bowel movement thread ... but boy oh boy its alot and raises alot of questions too.

Nice haul!
It comes to memory as I type that while I was fruit fasting, there were a few times that I had these wicked cravings for fat while I felt not-so-great. It wasn't a nutrient-deficiency craving, like lacking protein or salt or something, but a 'let's stop the rollercoaster from gaining momentum' kind of craving...

I can't say im having specific cravings having ended at day 3 of this fruit fast ... but i'd realy love to indulge in whatever food i could get my hands on. Constantly hungry. I have to snack all the time on the grapes/fruits.

My brother and rommate ordered pizza 2 times the past 3 days .... men i can't tell you how much i'd love to eat some. Or anything good that is not sweet. Like some mad pasta or an awsome meat dish ... anything realy.

Nice haul!
Yep! You'll notice great changes happen consistently that are sometimes pleasurable and sometimes miserable, but if you keep going until a point of stabilization, you'll reach a new level of 'health' that will completely change your mentality about how you used to feel before you suffered through those minor traumas to get to the light on the other side. Continuing fruit fasting well beyond these blatantly obvious phases is when it's possible to start to work into nutrient deficiencies. It took me about 3 weeks to realize I was zinc, and moreover pancreatic deficient after coming to a point of stabilization.

Men i hope you are right. At the end of this day im having feelings of despair and sadness. Not sure if its just an reaction to this endeavor and a change in neurotransmitters or if im simply just getting a little tired of ... well all these years not finding answers. It's far to early to give up tho.

Yeah it's very possible that the malabsorption is a fungal thing. I remember being able to put away plates and plates of carbohydrates, processed or otherwise (collard greens, sweet potato, etc), and I would stay crazy thin, a bit skinny-fat more often than not... But this physical state was shortly accompanied by intense processed-sugar cravings just a few hours after eating even multiple huge plates. Was basically a more intense version of the craving for pie or ice cream that many Americans feel after eating their portion of animal flesh.

Now, I swear on most days it feels like I eat less than half of the food I used to and I can gain and keep weight without too much difficulty. Basically how I always thought it should work, it does now lol. Big relief.

Yeah i've been always the skinny type and could eat as if i was a barrel without a bottom. People always ask me where i put all this food ... I was able to gain some weight and muscle if i realy wanted to but i had to work out realy hard and eat alot to have "some" changes. But as of my situation now ... i can't seem to gain any weight at all.

Haha, mate that sounds great tho. How you thought it should work ... yeah im glad you got there. Hope i can meet you on that side of the fence oneday.

Thank you for your replys and the invested time.

 

[Inaut]

 

[Broken man]

Potato starch increases akkermansia muciniphila. Effect of raw potato starch on the gut microbiome and metabolome in mice - PubMed

 

[Inaut]

Potato starch increases akkermansia muciniphila. Effect of raw potato starch on the gut microbiome and metabolome in mice - PubMed

Great post @Broken man . I was actually trying to find this out after listening to podcast.

 

[TheSir]

What confuses me, if we have, lets's say SIBO then wouldn't the bacteria that is supposed to be in the colon just eat/ferment the starch in the lower Intestines before the colon even gets his/her hands on it?

This may be possible in the beginning. However, from what I understand, in SIBO the problem is not only that the bacteria have migrated upward into the SI, it's also that the the type of the predominant bacteria has changed, so that instead of acid byproducts their metabolism leaves you with alkaline byproducts that help the bad bacteria, yeasts and fungi thrive. Since none of these feed on RS (but rather mostly on fats and proteins, this is why fruit fasting helps clear the SI), yet the good fermentative bacteria do, in theory you should first end up changing the bacteria type in the whole intestine, after which the overgrowth in the SI would subside. So once you get the good bacteria to become the dominant ones, the situation should normalize by itself, regardless of where in the intestines the growths are located.

 

[Inaut]

I’ll post the link shortly but I was listening to another Krishnan interview and he brought up something very interesting. He mentioned that booger eating as children is almost like a natural “vaccine” for our immune system. Why do children do it? It’s almost instinctual... The mucous which is produced by the lungs works it’s way up to the nose and then comes back down into the mouth/throat. As gross as this sound, he actually says that we should swallow our excess mucous to help build our immunity. It does make sense when you break it down to brass tacks...

 

[Inaut]

Some real gems in this video