Handling seborrheic dermatitis w/ zinc & thyroid (NDT)

[Twohandsondeck]

I was just pointing out that removing sugar from one's coffee isn't an anti-Peat sentiment. It's like saying when I stop eating the carrot salad, it's an anti-Peat sentiment

Ok, yeah. I see what you're saying now.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Hopefully this will be the last compilation of anecdotal points that I add regarding this pestering condition.

Here's a few lists that I've found to offer a kind of guiding truth in my own dietary choices. In short... eating grapes, drinking water with salt to match, using antifungal green clay masks, getting protein with ample carbs, and taking NDT will reliably bring me back to a stable track:

>>> Food combinations go best as:
1) Grains + vegetables + (optional) milk
OR
2) Meat + eggs + fruit

WHAT HELPS:
+Grapes, the more the better throughout the day. [Fruit sugar is the primary medicine]

+Drinking more water, like 2.5-3L a day. [Water is the secondary medicine]

+Green clay + apple cider vinegar + vitamin E face mask - let dry for at least 25 minutes before washing off. Suitable for daily use. [Keeps oils and fungal count down which allows faster healing]

+Washing face with a gentle soap when the skin feels oily. [Same concept as mentioned above, just less thorough]

+1-2L of milk throughout the day, being careful not to be excessive about it.

+4 eggs or less per day

+Lean meat also in moderation if consumed at all (often just having eggs and milk is satiating enough)

+Small piece of raw liver every other day on average

+As much raw kidney as desired from day to day.

+Canned oysters every 3-4 days.

+Natural dessicated thyroid (NDT).

+Salt.

+5-7mg of zinc 1-2 times per day.

+Organic brown rice (is the easiest-to-digest grain in my experience).

+Organic unrefined coconut oil (also easy to digest).

WHAT HINDERS:
-PUFA

-MUFA like macadamia, olive, avocado

-Potato, tomato, eggplant, pepper, banana, orange, apple.

-Gluten.

-Nuts, seeds, chocolate, beans.

-Cheap coffee.

-Creatine, aspirin.

-Concentrated sources of fiber.

-Casein protein.

-Red Bull energy drinks.

-Ashwagandha.

SITUATIONAL (sometimes helps, sometimes hurts):
~Progest-E
~Pregnenolone (best taken every 3rd day)
~Magnesium chloride or magnesium citrate
~Raw carrot
~Activated charcoal
~Whole food vitamin C (ex. acerola cherry powder)
~Cascara sagrada
~Organic coffee
~100% de agave tequila

 

[Dr. B]

It's not a problem to consume refined sugar (as long as you're consuming enough nutrients and don't react negatively to it). I also add it to my coffee just because it tastes good and because I'm already getting all my micros from nutrient-dense foods, and have extra calories to spare. But to say eliminating refined sugar is an anti-Peat sentiment is not accurate. It's easy to be very high carb without refined sugar or starches (and I've also done this myself especially when ripping). You can easily do it with foods such as milk, honey, maple syrup, and fruit...
And just keep in mind that he's swallowing tablespoons of raw potato starch which would be a more accurate anti-Peat sentiment.

what do you mean by ripping? cutting weight?

Also, I think if you are using white rice, white bread or white sugar you may actually need to supplement a b complex of some kind or thiamine or more.
I think the nutrients in milk, orange juice, liver, etc, are all there to process those foods themselves. like liver may not have sugar, but it doesn't have much thiamine, it may have glycogen in it, and the small amount of thiamine in liver may be necessary for some interactions with the other minerals/vitamins in liver, like the other b vitamins. I think the options are strictly avoiding white sugar/rice/white starch and sticking only to whole food sugar sources like honey, milk, fruits, juices etc, or to add a small amount of b complex if using the white bread/rice/sugar. although, some white starch/bread products are already fortified, but i think its only a few b vitamins and also iron, so you probably need to avoid those. I think they only fortify with iron, thiamine, niacin, and one or two more b vitamins, maybe folic acid and b2...

Also
"Once the endosperm is isolated, it is ground into a fine powder and sifted to remove any remaining fragments of bran or germ. Next, a chemical bleaching process is used to give the flour a whiter color. This bleaching step, usually with chlorine or benzoyl peroxide, destroys many of the original nutrients that were present in the flour. The final flour product contains a smaller portion of the original nutrients that were present in the seed prior to processing. Enrichment ensures that these important nutrients are restored to improve the quality of the flour"

I wonder if all white breads go through this bleaching process, and if chlorine/benzoyl peroxide remains in the final bread product? I heard they do this bleaching process on white sugar and salt as well? if that's the case, and if the chlorine/benzoyl peroxide does actually remain in the finished product of white bread/white sugar, then it would mean white sugar and bread are actually dangerous. chlorine can have anti thyroid effects, not sure about benzoyl peroxide

 

[faisman]

View attachment 27215

Hopefully this will be the last compilation of anecdotal points that I add regarding this pestering condition.

Here's a few lists that I've found to offer a kind of guiding truth in my own dietary choices. In short... eating grapes, drinking water with salt to match, using antifungal green clay masks, getting protein with ample carbs, and taking NDT will reliably bring me back to a stable track:

>>> Food combinations go best as:
1) Grains + vegetables + (optional) milk
OR
2) Meat + eggs + fruit

WHAT HELPS:
+Grapes, the more the better throughout the day. [Fruit sugar is the primary medicine]

+Drinking more water, like 2.5-3L a day. [Water is the secondary medicine]

+Green clay + apple cider vinegar + vitamin E face mask - let dry for at least 25 minutes before washing off. Suitable for daily use. [Keeps oils and fungal count down which allows faster healing]

+Washing face with a gentle soap when the skin feels oily. [Same concept as mentioned above, just less thorough]

+1-2L of milk throughout the day, being careful not to be excessive about it.

+4 eggs or less per day

+Lean meat also in moderation if consumed at all (often just having eggs and milk is satiating enough)

+Small piece of raw liver every other day on average

+As much raw kidney as desired from day to day.

+Canned oysters every 3-4 days.

+Natural dessicated thyroid (NDT).

+Salt.

+5-7mg of zinc 1-2 times per day.

+Organic brown rice (is the easiest-to-digest grain in my experience).

+Organic unrefined coconut oil (also easy to digest).

WHAT HINDERS:
-PUFA

-MUFA like macadamia, olive, avocado

-Potato, tomato, eggplant, pepper, banana, orange, apple.

-Gluten.

-Nuts, seeds, chocolate, beans.

-Cheap coffee.

-Creatine, aspirin.

-Concentrated sources of fiber.

-Casein protein.

-Red Bull energy drinks.

-Ashwagandha.

SITUATIONAL (sometimes helps, sometimes hurts):
~Progest-E
~Pregnenolone (best taken every 3rd day)
~Magnesium chloride or magnesium citrate
~Raw carrot
~Activated charcoal
~Whole food vitamin C (ex. acerola cherry powder)
~Cascara sagrada
~Organic coffee
~100% de agave tequila

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. Interesting observations…some of them mirror my experiences with it. My seb derm is mainly on my scalp and has gotten a lot better over the years as my metabolism and overall health improved. I only get a few spots on specific areas on my scalp now and trying to figure it out for good. Ive found that my homemade version of georgi’s solban helps a lot and more recently topical vit D but trying to get to the root of it all.

Regarding water, do you feel like drinking it or do you aim to drink this much daily?

I rarely drink plain water as I never actually feel thirsty except when working out and even then I just drink a cup or two. I’m wondering if its something I should try.

Also I am guessing drinking more water has to go with getting more salt in. Do you see a specific benefit in doing this as opposed to a lower balance of both? I salt food to taste and with my water/fluid intake I never get symptoms of dehydration so I never thought to add more water. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

My seb derm is mainly on my scalp and has gotten a lot better over the years as my metabolism and overall health improved.

Same. All foods have become less and less consequential as health continues to trend upward.

Ive found that my homemade version of georgi’s solban helps a lot

I wasn't aware of that topical combo... I don't have any caffeine, but I'll make something up with the rest of it + coffee to see what happens lol. Thanks for mentioning it.

Regarding water, do you feel like drinking it or do you aim to drink this much daily?

The goal is always there. If I'm outside or working out, the number obviously fluctuates quite a bit. By now I believe that if I'm craving water, I'm pretty far behind the ball of what my body could have stored and able to use.

Food consumption also impacts the amount of water needed, too. Grapes warrant less extra water than raw meat for example, but there seems to be a dehydrating cost to the digestion of all calories. For several months I've thought of milk as being a form of hydration but from experience after experience I now think to supplement a certain amount of water even after drinking milk.

The other thing is that I don't think it's a good idea to force water down... like only so much can be absorbed at once. As a rough guess, I find it works best when I consume 0.5L per 20-30 minutes. I always drink to thirst but don't force down a bunch of extra water anymore. It seems to dilute digestion and cause unnecessary urination which puts a strain on the kidneys and causes potential electrolyte loss.

If my lips are dry at all, I take this to mean that I need some combination of water, salt, and potassium (received from fruit and vegetables). Salt usually isn't the issue... a teaspoon seems to go a long way.

I rarely drink plain water as I never actually feel thirsty except when working out and even then I just drink a cup or two. I’m wondering if its something I should try.

I feel that water is important when working out due to the evaporation but the same principle applies that too much at once will strain the kidneys when they're already under extra stress due to the workout.

Also I am guessing drinking more water has to go with getting more salt in. Do you see a specific benefit in doing this as opposed to a lower balance of both? I salt food to taste and with my water/fluid intake I never get symptoms of dehydration so I never thought to add more water. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Simplest suggestion I can think to make is to try to make a conscious effort to drink more water than you perceive to crave in between meals and/or in the morning before breakfast. If I start losing water through clear urine, I'll take 1/4-1/2 teaspoon of salt to slow the hemorrhage.

Also worth noting is that taking salt with milk, e.g. 1/4tsp salt with 0.5-1L of milk has a pretty magical effect. I don't know why, but between fruit throughout the day, milk, salt, and water, all of my sensory perceptions of being more or less hydrated are a net positive.

 

[faisman]

Same. All foods have become less and less consequential as health continues to trend upward.

I wasn't aware of that topical combo... I don't have any caffeine, but I'll make something up with the rest of it + coffee to see what happens lol. Thanks for mentioning it.

The goal is always there. If I'm outside or working out, the number obviously fluctuates quite a bit. By now I believe that if I'm craving water, I'm pretty far behind the ball of what my body could have stored and able to use.

Food consumption also impacts the amount of water needed, too. Grapes warrant less extra water than raw meat for example, but there seems to be a dehydrating cost to the digestion of all calories. For several months I've thought of milk as being a form of hydration but from experience after experience I now think to supplement a certain amount of water even after drinking milk.

The other thing is that I don't think it's a good idea to force water down... like only so much can be absorbed at once. As a rough guess, I find it works best when I consume 0.5L per 20-30 minutes. I always drink to thirst but don't force down a bunch of extra water anymore. It seems to dilute digestion and cause unnecessary urination which puts a strain on the kidneys and causes potential electrolyte loss.

If my lips are dry at all, I take this to mean that I need some combination of water, salt, and potassium (received from fruit and vegetables). Salt usually isn't the issue... a teaspoon seems to go a long way.

I feel that water is important when working out due to the evaporation but the same principle applies that too much at once will strain the kidneys when they're already under extra stress due to the workout.

Simplest suggestion I can think to make is to try to make a conscious effort to drink more water than you perceive to crave in between meals and/or in the morning before breakfast. If I start losing water through clear urine, I'll take 1/4-1/2 teaspoon of salt to slow the hemorrhage.

Also worth noting is that taking salt with milk, e.g. 1/4tsp salt with 0.5-1L of milk has a pretty magical effect. I don't know why, but between fruit throughout the day, milk, salt, and water, all of my sensory perceptions of being more or less hydrated are a net positive.

Yeah you should definitely try the solban mixture, coffee used to help as well before I got caffeine powder but its really cheap and easy to get on amazon. I usually dissolve the b3 and aspirin in water then pour it through a chemex coffee filter to get most of the fillers outthen add caffeine and some ethanol (around 20%) and put it all in a spray bottle. The amounts of everything are detailed in the solban thread.

And yeah thats what I was thinking to do in terms of water, add a cup or two in the morning and maybe a few more throughout the day.

I’m gonna try the salted milk, I’ve always been put off the idea because its a big no no to combine the two according to Ayurveda, I don’t really follow it but I feel there is a certain level of wisdom in old ways.

I forgot to mention that fat digestion is something I know for sure is linked to my seb derm. I went through a period of gallbladder issues where I also realized that eating fat (while I was struggling to digest it) guaranteed a flare up the next day. I’ve mostly fixed that now in the last 2 years by lowering fats and gradually working up to more reasonable amounts while also taking ox bile (found it very tricky to dose). I still can’t handle large amounts at a time though and for some reason really can’t handle unrendered/cooked animal fat, which is very weird since I always used to eat steak medium. These days I'm mostly fine if I keep fats around 60-80g spread throughout the day and take oxbile occassionally to keep bile flow optimal.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I’m gonna try the salted milk, I’ve always been put off the idea because its a big no no to combine the two according to Ayurveda, I don’t really follow it but I feel there is a certain level of wisdom in old ways.

Oh I wasn't aware of that. I first tried it on account of this traditional Chinese medicine chart as a means of getting more "yang" in my diet and as a way to balance out the "yin" nature of milk:

Yin Yang Food Chart

I forgot to mention that fat digestion is something I know for sure is linked to my seb derm. I went through a period of gallbladder issues where I also realized that eating fat (while I was struggling to digest it) guaranteed a flare up the next day. I’ve mostly fixed that now in the last 2 years by lowering fats and gradually working up to more reasonable amounts while also taking ox bile (found it very tricky to dose). I still can’t handle large amounts at a time though and for some reason really can’t handle unrendered/cooked animal fat, which is very weird since I always used to eat steak medium. These days I'm mostly fine if I keep fats around 60-80g spread throughout the day and take oxbile occassionally to keep bile flow optimal.

Fat digestion is definitely a part of the puzzle. Supposedly if we eat too much fat, it'll interfere with carbohydrate metabolism, but I don't have much of an issue putting coconut oil with sprouted bread or brown rice. Sometimes I'll throw in maple syrup on top of that and still fare okay.

Do you have trouble if it's purely saturated fat like butter, ghee, or coconut oil? For a while I speculated that the moderate MUFA content of red meat and milk was giving me some kickback.

 

[faisman]

Oh I wasn't aware of that. I first tried it on account of this traditional Chinese medicine chart as a means of getting more "yang" in my diet and as a way to balance out the "yin" nature of milk:

Yin Yang Food Chart

Fat digestion is definitely a part of the puzzle. Supposedly if we eat too much fat, it'll interfere with carbohydrate metabolism, but I don't have much of an issue putting coconut oil with sprouted bread or brown rice. Sometimes I'll throw in maple syrup on top of that and still fare okay.

Do you have trouble if it's purely saturated fat like butter, ghee, or coconut oil? For a while I speculated that the moderate MUFA content of red meat and milk was giving me some kickback.

Coconut oil was always easy for me too and I used it when other fats didn’t do me very well since I read it didn’t require bile as much. Butter and ghee were also good. My issues were mainly with milk fat and animal fat so the MUFA could’ve played a role. But I just assumed it was all a matter of insufficient bile since any fat would end up causing issues if I went beyond a certain threshold. I’m pretty sure my gallbladder was in bad shape as I had what I believed to be a gallbladder attack a few years back. I still don’t know what made my gallbladder sluggish in the first place, I never really went very low fat.

Have you tried oxbile? Taking some in low doses occasionally might be beneficial as a boost since the body reabsorbs 95% of the bile it releases. It also helps keep the gut clean, so maybe it could help you tolerate the fats that are currently causing issues.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Coconut oil was always easy for me too and I used it when other fats didn’t do me very well since I read it didn’t require bile as much. Butter and ghee were also good. My issues were mainly with milk fat and animal fat so the MUFA could’ve played a role. But I just assumed it was all a matter of insufficient bile since any fat would end up causing issues if I went beyond a certain threshold. I’m pretty sure my gallbladder was in bad shape as I had what I believed to be a gallbladder attack a few years back. I still don’t know what made my gallbladder sluggish in the first place, I never really went very low fat.

Have you tried oxbile? Taking some in low doses occasionally might be beneficial as a boost since the body reabsorbs 95% of the bile it releases. It also helps keep the gut clean, so maybe it could help you tolerate the fats that are currently causing issues.

Yeah I went through a few days where I considered ox bile but I ultimately never tried it because I couldn't discern whether digestive enzymes for protein or carbs would also be a potential solution... and then if it worked, I was reluctant to feel like I had to keep using it as a repeated remedy.

I ended up trying all sorts of using lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, cranberry juice, super-baking potatoes, soaking rice in alkaline solutions etc etc but the only thing that kinda helped was 1 tablespoon of lemon juice before, during, and after meals.

Considering what bile is made of, I see that it's mostly cholesterol. I was able to tolerate many eggs when I was doing a carnivore diet, but at some point they became inflammatory.

Specifically after stuffing myself with as much raw kidney as I could each day for about 5 days, I was miraculously able to eat 5-6 eggs each day for about 4 days in a row. They felt super beneficial so I kept eating them with no problem and now I have no issues with digesting large amounts of fat.

My theory is that the kidney provided DAO which calmed the histamine response that came from eating eggs which then allowed me to gather the cholesterol to make sufficient bile acid.

The other thread I made is relevant here:

Taking raw beef kidney & liver like pills for amazing benefit

So I've been taking raw beef kidney like pills for about a week now. The benefits have been almost unbelievable. In the order that I noticed them over the course of 5 days: -tremendous sense of calmness. -dandruff down 90% (within 24 hours). -light sensitivity way down; much easier to open...

raypeatforum.com

 

[faisman]

Yeah I went through a few days where I considered ox bile but I ultimately never tried it because I couldn't discern whether digestive enzymes for protein or carbs would also be a potential solution... and then if it worked, I was reluctant to feel like I had to keep using it as a repeated remedy.

I ended up trying all sorts of using lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, cranberry juice, super-baking potatoes, soaking rice in alkaline solutions etc etc but the only thing that kinda helped was 1 tablespoon of lemon juice before, during, and after meals.

Considering what bile is made of, I see that it's mostly cholesterol. I was able to tolerate many eggs when I was doing a carnivore diet, but at some point they became inflammatory.

Specifically after stuffing myself with as much raw kidney as I could each day for about 5 days, I was miraculously able to eat 5-6 eggs each day for about 4 days in a row. They felt super beneficial so I kept eating them with no problem and now I have no issues with digesting large amounts of fat.

My theory is that the kidney provided DAO which calmed the histamine response that came from eating eggs which then allowed me to gather the cholesterol to make sufficient bile acid.

The other thread I made is relevant here:

Taking raw beef kidney & liver like pills for amazing benefit

So I've been taking raw beef kidney like pills for about a week now. The benefits have been almost unbelievable. In the order that I noticed them over the course of 5 days: -tremendous sense of calmness. -dandruff down 90% (within 24 hours). -light sensitivity way down; much easier to open...

raypeatforum.com

Thats amazing, I’ve seen that thread too. I haven’t had kidney in ages…guess I’ll be trying that too :)

 

[Kray]

Pulling the ripcord on this one just a tad early considering the next package of information/ experience/practice I've accrued has come to another stopping point.

Here are some recent pictures as things continue to improve daily:

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________________________________
I'll attempt to consolidate the useful parts of my ongoing n=1 anecdote here. This post could literally be as short as:

"Zinc + NDT - PUFA - MUFA = seb derm remedy"

Truly, that's the only definitive meat that I can offer here... so if you've read that, then you've received the message.

+Copious sunlight, carbs, and calcium seem to be important secondary factors...
+and iodine, magnesium, and B-vitamin supplementation are a third tier that have a positive contribution, though they might not be ideal to supplement every day.
+using clay is more gentle & effective than soap when cleansing topical breakout areas.
__________________________________

So this is a continuation of a thread posted a few months back entitled, "Psoriasis: solved" found here:

Psoriasis Solved: Raw Starch Gut Rehab (pics)

Using potato starch + milk seemed to pad the intestinal wall from being damaged which lead to the temporary purple complexion of the previously red skin. To be clear: I'm not discounting the potato starch in any way, because it was an indispensable tool on this path to getting back to health. I am only adding the steps & discoveries I've made since the time of that thread to this post.

*In which case, I'll begin here:

Turns out that my self-diagnosis of psoriasis was incorrect after reading up on the symptoms of seb derm. They might well still be related to each other, but the point of interest which changed my mind was the implication of the malessezia yeast on the skin which is present in cases of seb derm.

Certainly, I've experienced pronounced relief from symptoms in the past by using a carrot salad, oil of oregano, ginger, turmeric, garlic, topical clay + apple cider vinegar or lemon, activated charcoal, or similar avenues to sequester fungal activity.

However, the benefits of these things were never consistent because all of the oral applications would eventually become harsh and inflammatory with repeated use, whatsoever they were... even a simple grated carrot, albeit it the least problematic of the options.

So,
The malessezia yeast purportedly feeds on oleic acid especially. Oleic acid is extremely high in vegetable oils, seed oils, avocado, olive, and eggs. It's moderately high in red meat, milk, and cheese.

Based on my own self-perceived food sensitivities, all of these foods could only be tolerated in the aforementioned amounts before repercussion occurred (i.e. 1 small cheap taco of vegetable oil or 3 cups of whole milk at one sitting, 3 ounces of ground beef, etc).

So... moderating these foods in my diet helped marginally, but the healing progress was remaining at a standstill.

Around this time I heard & employed this gum disease protocol which gave great effect in terms of overall wellness and reminded me of the power of a quality iodine supplement:

How to fix gum disease for <$100

Then I remembered this post I read from Atom Bergstrom talking about how psoriasis is a thyroid problem:

Minding Psoriasis | One Radio Network

"Psoriasis is often related to the THYROID GLAND, in one way or the other.

According to Byrom Bramwell, M.D. (1904), “Now this particular case of psoriasis is to me a most interesting one, for it was the first case of psoriasis in which I employed the thyroid treatment...

In the first case of myxœdema in which I employed the thyroid treatment, I gave the raw gland and I gave far too large a dose. The result was the production of acute thyroidism. The myxœdematous symptoms were rapidly removed, and the skin desquamated freely. Practically speaking, the patient got a new skin. I was very much impressed with the desquamation, with the improved nutrition of the skin, with the rapid growth of hair, and with the restoration of the sweat secretion..."
_________________
And I recalled the one miraculous experience I had using @haidut 's NDT product about 2 years ago, now. The first time I took a normal dose of the stuff, my reddened skin resorted to a perfectly normal complexion for about 2 hours...

...then I took another dose and it became inflammatory, probably because of my lack of nutrients to support an increased metabolism or even more likely due to the parasitic problem I was dealing with at the time.

In any case, I was renewed unto hope to try using NDT again, so I started taking LifeGivingStore brand I had in the pantry. I immediately realized I was able to tolerate it. Even though the visual skin benefit was minimal, the NDT improved my bowel transit time, ability to digest fat, facial symmetry (eyes became less saggy when I looked in the mirror, at least), sleep quality, resistance to sunburn, and overall patience + energy.

Finally, this brought me to the zinc probing. Frankly I have no idea what triggered me to search term, "zinc seborrheic dermatitis" into PubMed, but nonetheless it popped up with a number of studies which are intended to reconcile the two topics. I spent about 20 whole minutes on the matter to find that zinc chelates are used to treat dandruff topically (also a major symptom of seb derm), that zinc is an antifungal, and that there's a correlation between people suffering from seb derm and those same people having low serum zinc.

Article - JDDonline - Journal of Drugs in Dermatology

Article - JDDonline - Journal of Drugs in Dermatology

Exploring Anti-Fungal, Anti-Microbial and Anti-Inflammatory Properties of a Topical Non-Steroidal Barrier Cream in Face and Chest Seborrheic Dermatitis

Clinical and Biochemical Assessment of Maintenance Treatment in Chronic Recurrent Seborrheic Dermatitis: Randomized Controlled Study

I had a zinc gluconate on the shelf and cracked open a 15mg capsule under the tongue to feel an immediate sensation of relief & skin tightening. I recalled Chris Masterjohn explaining why we can't use more than 5-7mg of zinc at a time, but it felt so promising that I cracked another 15mg to an even greater benefit. The third 15mg dose still gave more therapeutic relief, though it was considerably less pronounced than the first 30mg, so I backed off and went to bed. Upon waking, I had quite a bit of white skin scaling indicative of healing... which is definitely offputting to the general public but was a welcome sight of concrete healing.

> As a side note regarding the absorption of zinc, @Amazoniac has a couple of posts here showing that the lion share of zinc beyond 5-7mg is excreted via feces:

Zinc. How Many Mg Do You Take?

Also, Masterjohn has stated that the ability for the body to absorb 5-7mg of zinc resets every 5 hours.

Since then - about 2 weeks ago - I've been supplementing an average of 25mg of zinc biglycinate each night split into two doses. One is usually taken with a meal and the other with milk. I also take 1-1.5 grains of NDT alongside the zinc.

[I bypassed the information just mentioned based on my own sensations of well-being. I will not continue to supplement these large doses of zinc on a nightly basis for longer than a month.]

My assumption is that the organs which get the short end of the stick with regard to handling an excess of zinc are the kidneys. To this end, I believe a daily sauna session OR all-day outdoor sweating has been supremely useful in helping to moderate the excess zinc influx. In the near future I plan to experiment with water + electrolyte fasting as advocated by Cole Robinson (the "Snake Diet" guy) in order to help the kidneys specifically. This 5 minute video provides his simple recipe:


View: https://youtu.be/1onQ0nxgWFM

______________________

+++Miscellaneous notes and observations+++

*I have stopped adding sugar, especially white sugar, to my morning coffee for the last couple of weeks to a digestive benefit. It's certainly an anti-Peat sentiment, but I don't believe that processed white sugar is benefiting my health in any way. It has repeatedly failed me to this extent that I don't want anything to do with it for the time being. I'll come back to it in the future at some point, but for now it's definitely better to keep it on the shelf. A moderate serving of heavy cream in the coffee works best for now.

*NDT supplementation has noticeably improved my ability to digest fatty meals including larger volumes of whole milk.

*On days that I don't work outside, I use a dry sauna at the local gym to great benefit. It visibly improves my skin complexion and seemingly my sleep quality as well. There was a period of about a year in which sauna use would cause a stress reaction for me, but now it's an excellent therapy. The factors that seem to influence my ability to comfortably sweat larger volumes each day are: animal meat (B vitamins), zinc, iodine, and of course adequate salt & water. The more sweat volume I lose in any given sauna session, the better the outcome. It keeps the larger T-zone pores on my face tighter and (seems to) lessen the chance of random pimples that appear after eating fatty red meat or drinking too much whole milk.

*It's not recommended to use a sauna before staying in direct sunlight for extended periods of time. The mineral & fluid loss that results from the sauna will make the skin especially vulnerable to being burned. I learned this from first-hand experience x.X

*When supplementing high-ish doses of zinc on a nightly basis, I have been accruing a slightly nauseated feeling when eating food. It doesn't prevent my eating regimen or hunger, but it's definitely something to note with regard to stomach acid regulation. I'm not sure how the zinc is causing this mild uncomfortability, but considering how it resolves after a couple of days without zinc supplementation, I'm quite sure that this is the culprit.

*Taking zinc with milk is more satisfactory than taking zinc with food. I suspect it has something to do with the calcium blocking excess zinc absorption.

*Taking NDT too close to bed will make sleeping all-around more difficult, especially when paired with iodine supplementation.

*Keeping starch off the teeth and flossing is an important habit to maintain in order to keep the recovery progress going.

*Drinking milk by itself as it's own meal helps prevent digestive complications. I personally haven't found any food which complements milk digestion.

*I currently have an extremely low level of flatulence. Almost none whatsoever, really.

*I make a point to not eat eggs, honey, avocado, or olive oil and this has proven beneficial. Moderating oleic acid consumption in general is definitely a big key to the puzzle of seb derm, in my opinion.

*My potato starch use has whittled to 1-2 tablespoons taken with milk in the evening every 2-3 days.
__________
Typical day of eating:

8:30A Wake up, half liter of water
9:15A 20 ounces of coffee with some heavy cream added
10:30A large bagel smattered with cream cheese (local bagel shop makes them fresh, they digest great)
1P meat + small amount of starch and/or veggie OR 1L whole milk
3P 1L of whole milk OR corn tacos with onion, cilantro, meat OR second bagel with cream cheese)
5-11P more milk as desired to fill out calories and satiety

> Between the hours of 6-10P I'll usually take 30-90mg of NDT and 25-30mg of zinc (as gluconate or biglycinate) with milk, split into two doses spaced out by 1.5-2 hours.

I think that about covers things thus far. Cheers, guys.
_______________________
Luke 2:14
[14] Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

@Twohandsondeck

I was so encouraged and inspired after reading your post about seb derm! Now I am beginning to believe this is the problem that has dogged me off and on for the past 3-5 years. Thank you for the practical helps and observations as to what you experienced- how to mitigate through diet, what to avoid, etc. If anything new has helped, or you would like to give an update on your status, that would be great to hear! I just ordered some soap in hopes of kick-starting the healing process, but will add/remove those things from diet that may help/hinder.

Thank you for sharing!

Soli Deo Gloria ?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Soli Deo Gloria

Amen!

I was so encouraged and inspired after reading your post about seb derm! Now I am beginning to believe this is the problem that has dogged me off and on for the past 3-5 years. Thank you for the practical helps and observations as to what you experienced- how to mitigate through diet, what to avoid, etc. If anything new has helped, or you would like to give an update on your status, that would be great to hear! I just ordered some soap in hopes of kick-starting the healing process, but will add/remove those things from diet that may help/hinder.

yes indeed, I'll pen here what comes to mind in no particular order:

+++ Recent pictures taken over a 1.5 day timelapse as stamped -



+Zinc is a very powerful supplement. If I take some today it will still have an instant benefit to my skin, but it will also noticeably impact my cognition for the worse. Despite supplemental zinc having a trade-off, a dozen raw wild caught oysters have never disappointed me in terms of all-around helpfulness.

+I haven't messed with NDT in many months now. I suspect if I gave up coffee and was diligent to eat a surplus of calories each day that it would be less likely to cause a stress response.

+Every affected area of skin has healed well except for my scalp and upper lip which are still stubborn. With a little facial hair or a mild sunburn I can usually pass as a contributing member of society with nobody unconsciously rubbing their upper lip when they look at me lol.

+I'm now under the impression that the upper lip is a reflex point of the colon. Right = ascending colon, left = descending colon. Raw potato starch being a food source for the colon probably has something to do with this equation.

+A B complex supplement does the best job of lessening dandruff. By no surprise coffee, pancakes, and too much milk worsen it.

+Magnesium supplementation can be hit or miss. The most noticeable thing I get from it is that it stabilizes the pick-me-up effect from coffee in the morning when taken alongside it.

+Vegetable soups taken at night significantly affect my caffeine tolerance the following day.

+Drinking water is still very important. Maintaining straw-colored urine is the easiest method in my opinion. If the urine color is normal yet feelings of dehydration still exist, I find that it's usually a lack of protein first and then total calories after. Vitamins B, C, salt, and minerals as a whole (whether it is from vegetables, green clay, etc) also play a big role in the hydration equation.

+Lean meats are considerably easier to digest. Compared to fatty meats, this is especially true when they are consumed with a carb source at the same meal (e.g. rice, bread, vegetables).

+Although I rarely consider what foods I'm eating these days, I'll try to avoid beans with meat, milk with anything, tomatoes, bread, avocado, soy sauce, and flavored syrups if possible. Even eating a very questionable meal won't mess with my sleep or set me back too far these days. I can take everything in stride without worry of blood sugar fluctuations or excessive skin flare ups.

+Illite clay soaked in water seems to help food sensitivities. I'm still on the fence as to whether adding shilajit to that mixture is good or bad and under what context it should be considered... I recently posted about that here:

Shilajit + green clay = antihistamine tonic(?)

For the past few weeks, on most days, I've taken anywhere from 1/2 to 2 teaspoons of illite clay that has soaked in water each day. It seems that the clay alone has given quite the benefit in the way of noticeable reduction of typical food-sensitive reactions (ex. tomatoes, garlic, cucumber...

raypeatforum.com

+Depending on how much acerola cherry powder (a whole food vitamin C source) I take, it goes a long way towards softening the skin and preventing any pain in the gumline. The sweet spot seems to be around 2g of vitamin C taken every 5-7 days. Taking it every day always causes a stress response.

+Collagen powder hasn't done any favors for me yet. I've tried it many times and in two different brands to no perceived benefit.

+Hyaluronic acid makes me more susceptible to sunburn as far as I can tell.

+I've started eating nuts on an almost-daily basis for the last few weeks to a great surprise of more consistent bowel movements and an evening out of mental awareness. I find them most useful to have in between meals, but I'm not sure yet what they pair with (e.g. meat, fruit, vegetables, etc). I'll have a variety of pine nuts, cashews, pistachios, brazil nuts, and/or macadamia nuts.

+I started incorporating nuts and also using vitamin E with them after coming across this study:

Blood levels of vitamin E, polyunsaturated fatty acids of phospholipids, lipoperoxides and glutathione peroxidase in patients affected with seborrheic dermatitis.

Abstract

Plasma levels of vitamin E (Vit E) and polyunsaturated fatty acids of phospholipids (PUFA-PL) as well as erythrocyte glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px) activity are significantly lower (P less than 0.001) in patients with seborrheic dermatitis (SD). both HIV seropositive or HIV sero-negative, than in control subjects. No differences are found between HIV sero-positive and sero-negative individuals with SD. The deficiency of PUFA-PL (mainly C20: 3 n-6, C20: 4 n-6 and C22: 6 n-3) which is accompanied by a significant increase of saturated palmitic and stearic acids (P less than 0.001), does not appear to be associated with an active lipoperoxidative process in the plasma. The significant blood deficiency of Vit E, GSH-Px, and particularly of PUFA-PL, may play a pathogenetic role in seborrheic dermatitis.

+Based on personal intuition, taking vitamin E with nuts that contain various PUFA yields a noticeable effect. If I take vitamin E with meat, milk, or vegetables, I don't recall noticing much. If I deliberately take too much, I'll get a generic stress response i.e. cold extremities, fatigue.

+Another study worthy of mention:

Altered serum elements, antioxidants, MDA, and immunoglobulins are associated with an increased risk of seborrheic dermatitis.

Abstract

Background
The exact mechanism for the pathophysiology of seborrheic dermatitis (SD) remains unknown. According to past knowledge, neuropsychiatric disorders, weak immune responses, fungal infections, antioxidants deficiencies, and inadequate nutrition might involve in SD. Here we evaluated serum trace elements, micronutrients, antioxidants, malondialdehyde (MDA), and immunoglobulins in SD patients.

Methods
This case-control study recruited 75 SD patients and 76 age-and sex-matched healthy controls (HCs). We measured serum micronutrients using atomic absorption spectroscopic methods. Similarly, we assessed serum antioxidants applying the RP-HPLC techniques. Also, serum MDA and immunoglobulins levels were evaluated by UV-spectrophotometric and turbidimetric methods, respectively.

Results
We observed higher serum levels of copper, manganese, iron, calcium, magnesium, and MDA in SD patients than HCs. Together with vitamin E, we noticed lower serum concentrations of immunoglobulin A, G, and M in SD patients than HCs. The present study detected a positive correlation between serum zinc and calcium levels (r = 0.365, p = 0.009) in SD patients. However, we identified a negative correlation between serum copper and calcium levels (r = -0.298, p = 0.035).

Conclusion
The present study suggests that the altered levels of micronutrients, antioxidants, MDA, and immunoglobulins are associated with the pathophysiology of SD. These changes may not be the cause but the consequences of the disease. These findings might help to understand the etiopathology and management of SD.

__________________
*My next line of experimentation will be incorporating soil based probiotics with raw starches, among other fibers in another attempt to rehabilitate the colon.

 

[Kray]

Amen!

yes indeed, I'll pen here what comes to mind in no particular order:

+++ Recent pictures taken over a 1.5 day timelapse as stamped -

View attachment 35146View attachment 35147View attachment 35149View attachment 35150View attachment 35151View attachment 35152

+Zinc is a very powerful supplement. If I take some today it will still have an instant benefit to my skin, but it will also noticeably impact my cognition for the worse. Despite supplemental zinc having a trade-off, a dozen raw wild caught oysters have never disappointed me in terms of all-around helpfulness.

+I haven't messed with NDT in many months now. I suspect if I gave up coffee and was diligent to eat a surplus of calories each day that it would be less likely to cause a stress response.

+Every affected area of skin has healed well except for my scalp and upper lip which are still stubborn. With a little facial hair or a mild sunburn I can usually pass as a contributing member of society with nobody unconsciously rubbing their upper lip when they look at me lol.

+I'm now under the impression that the upper lip is a reflex point of the colon. Right = ascending colon, left = descending colon. Raw potato starch being a food source for the colon probably has something to do with this equation.

+A B complex supplement does the best job of lessening dandruff. By no surprise coffee, pancakes, and too much milk worsen it.

+Magnesium supplementation can be hit or miss. The most noticeable thing I get from it is that it stabilizes the pick-me-up effect from coffee in the morning when taken alongside it.

+Vegetable soups taken at night significantly affect my caffeine tolerance the following day.

+Drinking water is still very important. Maintaining straw-colored urine is the easiest method in my opinion. If the urine color is normal yet feelings of dehydration still exist, I find that it's usually a lack of protein first and then total calories after. Vitamins B, C, salt, and minerals as a whole (whether it is from vegetables, green clay, etc) also play a big role in the hydration equation.

+Lean meats are considerably easier to digest. Compared to fatty meats, this is especially true when they are consumed with a carb source at the same meal (e.g. rice, bread, vegetables).

+Although I rarely consider what foods I'm eating these days, I'll try to avoid beans with meat, milk with anything, tomatoes, bread, avocado, soy sauce, and flavored syrups if possible. Even eating a very questionable meal won't mess with my sleep or set me back too far these days. I can take everything in stride without worry of blood sugar fluctuations or excessive skin flare ups.

+Illite clay soaked in water seems to help food sensitivities. I'm still on the fence as to whether adding shilajit to that mixture is good or bad and under what context it should be considered... I recently posted about that here:

Shilajit + green clay = antihistamine tonic(?)

For the past few weeks, on most days, I've taken anywhere from 1/2 to 2 teaspoons of illite clay that has soaked in water each day. It seems that the clay alone has given quite the benefit in the way of noticeable reduction of typical food-sensitive reactions (ex. tomatoes, garlic, cucumber...

raypeatforum.com

+Depending on how much acerola cherry powder (a whole food vitamin C source) I take, it goes a long way towards softening the skin and preventing any pain in the gumline. The sweet spot seems to be around 2g of vitamin C taken every 5-7 days. Taking it every day always causes a stress response.

+Collagen powder hasn't done any favors for me yet. I've tried it many times and in two different brands to no perceived benefit.

+Hyaluronic acid makes me more susceptible to sunburn as far as I can tell.

+I've started eating nuts on an almost-daily basis for the last few weeks to a great surprise of more consistent bowel movements and an evening out of mental awareness. I find them most useful to have in between meals, but I'm not sure yet what they pair with (e.g. meat, fruit, vegetables, etc). I'll have a variety of pine nuts, cashews, pistachios, brazil nuts, and/or macadamia nuts.

+I started incorporating nuts and also using vitamin E with them after coming across this study:

Blood levels of vitamin E, polyunsaturated fatty acids of phospholipids, lipoperoxides and glutathione peroxidase in patients affected with seborrheic dermatitis.

Abstract

Plasma levels of vitamin E (Vit E) and polyunsaturated fatty acids of phospholipids (PUFA-PL) as well as erythrocyte glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px) activity are significantly lower (P less than 0.001) in patients with seborrheic dermatitis (SD). both HIV seropositive or HIV sero-negative, than in control subjects. No differences are found between HIV sero-positive and sero-negative individuals with SD. The deficiency of PUFA-PL (mainly C20: 3 n-6, C20: 4 n-6 and C22: 6 n-3) which is accompanied by a significant increase of saturated palmitic and stearic acids (P less than 0.001), does not appear to be associated with an active lipoperoxidative process in the plasma. The significant blood deficiency of Vit E, GSH-Px, and particularly of PUFA-PL, may play a pathogenetic role in seborrheic dermatitis.

+Based on personal intuition, taking vitamin E with nuts that contain various PUFA yields a noticeable effect. If I take vitamin E with meat, milk, or vegetables, I don't recall noticing much. If I deliberately take too much, I'll get a generic stress response i.e. cold extremities, fatigue.

+Another study worthy of mention:

Altered serum elements, antioxidants, MDA, and immunoglobulins are associated with an increased risk of seborrheic dermatitis.

Abstract

Background
The exact mechanism for the pathophysiology of seborrheic dermatitis (SD) remains unknown. According to past knowledge, neuropsychiatric disorders, weak immune responses, fungal infections, antioxidants deficiencies, and inadequate nutrition might involve in SD. Here we evaluated serum trace elements, micronutrients, antioxidants, malondialdehyde (MDA), and immunoglobulins in SD patients.

Methods
This case-control study recruited 75 SD patients and 76 age-and sex-matched healthy controls (HCs). We measured serum micronutrients using atomic absorption spectroscopic methods. Similarly, we assessed serum antioxidants applying the RP-HPLC techniques. Also, serum MDA and immunoglobulins levels were evaluated by UV-spectrophotometric and turbidimetric methods, respectively.

Results
We observed higher serum levels of copper, manganese, iron, calcium, magnesium, and MDA in SD patients than HCs. Together with vitamin E, we noticed lower serum concentrations of immunoglobulin A, G, and M in SD patients than HCs. The present study detected a positive correlation between serum zinc and calcium levels (r = 0.365, p = 0.009) in SD patients. However, we identified a negative correlation between serum copper and calcium levels (r = -0.298, p = 0.035).

Conclusion
The present study suggests that the altered levels of micronutrients, antioxidants, MDA, and immunoglobulins are associated with the pathophysiology of SD. These changes may not be the cause but the consequences of the disease. These findings might help to understand the etiopathology and management of SD.

__________________
*My next line of experimentation will be incorporating soil based probiotics with raw starches, among other fibers in another attempt to rehabilitate the colon.

Wow, thanks for your post, lots of good information! I really appreciate it.

As each day passes, I am not 100% convinced my case is SD. I have history of hayfever, eczema, food allergies. I'm trying to read my own body. I am dabbling with some homeopathic remedies now (past 2 days) and considering adding taurine back into the mix, since I found some rather interesting studies:

Taurine (2-Aminoethanesulfonic Acid): Useful in Skin Diseases

Download Citation | Taurine (2-Aminoethanesulfonic Acid): Useful in Skin Diseases | Taurine or 2-aminoethanesulfonic acid occurs naturally in food, especially in seafood and meat. Taurine is used in topical anti-acne therapy. It... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Taurine improves epidermal barrier properties stressed by surfactants-a role for osmolytes in barrier homeostasis - PubMed

Epidermal barrier function to water loss is maintained by lipid membrane domains located in the interstices of the stratum corneum. Exposure of the epidermis to a dry environment or UV irradiation stimulates barrier lipid synthesis and accumulation of the organic osmolyte taurine in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In the second study, the culprit, "sodium dodedycl sulfate", is none other than SLS or SLES, found in many common household cleaning products used on (shampoo, soaps) or having indirect contact with the skin (laundry detergent).

I had supplemented taurine in the past, but not for the past 3-6 months. It's pretty abundant in foods, and I should be getting enough in my diet. I'm not sure if I need more, or if I just need to look at environmental factors- soaps, etc.

I am not sure how taurine may play in SD- have you read such? I'm not sure what the mechanisms are in SD as compared to eczema or psoriasis.

Back to the zinc and thyroid- I was using a zinc pyrithione soap thinking I had SD. It hasn't helped much except with the itching, a little less facial skin flaking but not much else. Did you say what type of thyroid you take? Do you think this could help me, even if I have eczema vs. SD?

Thank you again for your feedback and help!

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Wow, thanks for your post, lots of good information! I really appreciate it.

As each day passes, I am not 100% convinced my case is SD. I have history of hayfever, eczema, food allergies. I'm trying to read my own body. I am dabbling with some homeopathic remedies now (past 2 days) and considering adding taurine back into the mix, since I found some rather interesting studies:

Taurine (2-Aminoethanesulfonic Acid): Useful in Skin Diseases

Download Citation | Taurine (2-Aminoethanesulfonic Acid): Useful in Skin Diseases | Taurine or 2-aminoethanesulfonic acid occurs naturally in food, especially in seafood and meat. Taurine is used in topical anti-acne therapy. It... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Taurine improves epidermal barrier properties stressed by surfactants-a role for osmolytes in barrier homeostasis - PubMed

Epidermal barrier function to water loss is maintained by lipid membrane domains located in the interstices of the stratum corneum. Exposure of the epidermis to a dry environment or UV irradiation stimulates barrier lipid synthesis and accumulation of the organic osmolyte taurine in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In the second study, the culprit, "sodium dodedycl sulfate", is none other than SLS or SLES, found in many common household cleaning products used on (shampoo, soaps) or having indirect contact with the skin (laundry detergent).

I had supplemented taurine in the past, but not for the past 3-6 months. It's pretty abundant in foods, and I should be getting enough in my diet. I'm not sure if I need more, or if I just need to look at environmental factors- soaps, etc.

I am not sure how taurine may play in SD- have you read such? I'm not sure what the mechanisms are in SD as compared to eczema or psoriasis.

Back to the zinc and thyroid- I was using a zinc pyrithione soap thinking I had SD. It hasn't helped much except with the itching, a little less facial skin flaking but not much else. Did you say what type of thyroid you take? Do you think this could help me, even if I have eczema vs. SD?

Thank you again for your feedback and help!

Several thoughts in order of response:

Hayfever, eczema, and food allergies may well be manifestations of the same overexcitation of the immune system due to elevated histamines. How do you do with foods like beer, kefir, saaurkraut, avocado, apple cider vinegar, cured meats like pepperoni or bacon, etc?

These questions are a callback to this article that I find myself occasionally referencing:

Histamine Intolerance: All You Need to Know

Dr. Amy Myers explains everything you need to know about histamine intolerance.

www.amymyersmd.com

The second point about histamine is that, according to 'You're not sick, you're thirsty' by F. Batmanghelidj, elevated histamines are a fundamental symptom of dehydration. Of relevance, I had pretty bad cat allergies until doing an intensive bout of cooked & raw vegetables 3x a day alongside a probiotic, ACV, and lemon juice in the morning for 2 weeks. At that time it gave me a lot of benefit, probably because of the inundation of electrolytes which aided overall hydration. Still uncertain as it was about 7 years ago, but it's my best guess.


I have a bag of taurine sitting on the shelf which I experimented with very briefly, but it only ever gave me a stress response. To be fair, I think the last time I used it, I took it in a dose of 500mg and my liver surely wasn't in great shape.

Which brings me to the thought about taurine. As far as I understand the usefulness of taurine, it supercharges the sulfurous amino acid pool so that the detoxification pathways of sulfuration and amino acid conjugation will be ramped up, causing larger amounts of bile to be dumped than usual. This seems like a good idea as long as the bowels have a relevant surface (e.g. fiber) with which the conjugated products can be bound to and excreted, but if everything isn't flowing smoothly and there's not a binding substance available, it'll just cause a stressful reaction as the sulfated 'toxins' are now in circulation and necessarily being redistributed somewhere or somehow otherwise. Of exact relevance, the primary 'toxins' that are being sequestered by sulfur are of the estrogen (and xenoestrogen) family, which are what make those stupid commercial soaps so... stupid.

Obviously we'd all do best to limit our use of commercial hygiene products as much as possible, but at the end of the day I'm skeptical that most skincare products are a primary contributor to most autoimmune conditions. Definitely secondary, rarely primary.

The liver being the manufacturer of bile means that it ought to be in tip top shape before taking taurine, in my opinion. However, the dosages in the second study above were only 50-150mg of taurine per day, so maybe there's something to be gained there yet.

On one hand I've never read anything that relates taurine to SD, but then again it seems like anything can be related to these mysterious skin conditions on account of it being the immune system overreacting to for one reason or another, whether it's too much phosphorus in relation to calcium at once, a lack of a nutrient like vitamin E or vitamin C, eating a fermented food that causes an endotoxin response, taking too many immune boosters like reishi or greens powders or whatever... As Atom Bergstrom says, "anything can cause anything and anything can cure anything."

If you ask Stephen Cabral, he'll probably tell you that you're storing too many poisons and these symptoms are what they look like when your body is at maximum capacity.
If you could ask Aajonus Vonderplanitz, he'd probably tell you that you don't have enough raw, pasture raised animal fat in your diet in order to lubricate the process of evacuating toxicity from the tissues.
If you ask Robert Morse, he'd probably tell you that your kidneys aren't filtering and fruit is the only building block your body needs to get better.

As examples, none of these perspectives are necessarily wrong, they're just not completely right, hence the mystery of an autoimmune condition.

The zinc pyrithione soap has some validity but I've found it to be very short lived - only a couple of days of effectiveness at best. On a similar note, I forgot to mention sulfur soap in the above post. I've found it quite useful to reduce redness. Most days I use it twice a day with the only problem being if I'm working long days in the sun that my skin will become more vulnerable to a sunburn.

(Frustrating) itchiness by my estimation is always indicative of a fungal issue. As soon as I cleared the brunt of my fungal problems with a combination of raw fruit/vegetable fasting and Atom Bergstrom's cheapo parasite cleansing protocol, the itching effect of a bad food reaction went away completely. There's a mild itch associated with the healing/flaking process but absolutely nothing like what it used to feel like after I ate some bread or milk in times past.

Atom's parasite protocol, by the way, is simple - black walnut hulls in the morning, raw pumpkin seeds in the afternoon, and 100% de agave tequila in the evening. Do it for 3-4 weeks starting on a full moon and then do a second cycle around the time of the next full moon in order to guarantee that the eggs aren't going to respawn the problem.

Admittedly I haven't taken any NDT for a few months now, but the NDT that I have on the shelf is from LifeGivingStore.

To bring it full circle, the classic Ray Peat response is that if when you fix the thyroid, virtually all disease states will ameliorate themselves on account of a robust carbohydrate metabolism producing an abundance of energy with which we, as the organism, are most resilient to death, aka full of (fleshly) life.

 

[Kray]

Several thoughts in order of response:

Hayfever, eczema, and food allergies may well be manifestations of the same overexcitation of the immune system due to elevated histamines. How do you do with foods like beer, kefir, saaurkraut, avocado, apple cider vinegar, cured meats like pepperoni or bacon, etc?

These questions are a callback to this article that I find myself occasionally referencing:

Histamine Intolerance: All You Need to Know

Dr. Amy Myers explains everything you need to know about histamine intolerance.

www.amymyersmd.com

The second point about histamine is that, according to 'You're not sick, you're thirsty' by F. Batmanghelidj, elevated histamines are a fundamental symptom of dehydration. Of relevance, I had pretty bad cat allergies until doing an intensive bout of cooked & raw vegetables 3x a day alongside a probiotic, ACV, and lemon juice in the morning for 2 weeks. At that time it gave me a lot of benefit, probably because of the inundation of electrolytes which aided overall hydration. Still uncertain as it was about 7 years ago, but it's my best guess.


I have a bag of taurine sitting on the shelf which I experimented with very briefly, but it only ever gave me a stress response. To be fair, I think the last time I used it, I took it in a dose of 500mg and my liver surely wasn't in great shape.

Which brings me to the thought about taurine. As far as I understand the usefulness of taurine, it supercharges the sulfurous amino acid pool so that the detoxification pathways of sulfuration and amino acid conjugation will be ramped up, causing larger amounts of bile to be dumped than usual. This seems like a good idea as long as the bowels have a relevant surface (e.g. fiber) with which the conjugated products can be bound to and excreted, but if everything isn't flowing smoothly and there's not a binding substance available, it'll just cause a stressful reaction as the sulfated 'toxins' are now in circulation and necessarily being redistributed somewhere or somehow otherwise. Of exact relevance, the primary 'toxins' that are being sequestered by sulfur are of the estrogen (and xenoestrogen) family, which are what make those stupid commercial soaps so... stupid.

Obviously we'd all do best to limit our use of commercial hygiene products as much as possible, but at the end of the day I'm skeptical that most skincare products are a primary contributor to most autoimmune conditions. Definitely secondary, rarely primary.

The liver being the manufacturer of bile means that it ought to be in tip top shape before taking taurine, in my opinion. However, the dosages in the second study above were only 50-150mg of taurine per day, so maybe there's something to be gained there yet.

On one hand I've never read anything that relates taurine to SD, but then again it seems like anything can be related to these mysterious skin conditions on account of it being the immune system overreacting to for one reason or another, whether it's too much phosphorus in relation to calcium at once, a lack of a nutrient like vitamin E or vitamin C, eating a fermented food that causes an endotoxin response, taking too many immune boosters like reishi or greens powders or whatever... As Atom Bergstrom says, "anything can cause anything and anything can cure anything."

If you ask Stephen Cabral, he'll probably tell you that you're storing too many poisons and these symptoms are what they look like when your body is at maximum capacity.
If you could ask Aajonus Vonderplanitz, he'd probably tell you that you don't have enough raw, pasture raised animal fat in your diet in order to lubricate the process of evacuating toxicity from the tissues.
If you ask Robert Morse, he'd probably tell you that your kidneys aren't filtering and fruit is the only building block your body needs to get better.

As examples, none of these perspectives are necessarily wrong, they're just not completely right, hence the mystery of an autoimmune condition.

The zinc pyrithione soap has some validity but I've found it to be very short lived - only a couple of days of effectiveness at best. On a similar note, I forgot to mention sulfur soap in the above post. I've found it quite useful to reduce redness. Most days I use it twice a day with the only problem being if I'm working long days in the sun that my skin will become more vulnerable to a sunburn.

(Frustrating) itchiness by my estimation is always indicative of a fungal issue. As soon as I cleared the brunt of my fungal problems with a combination of raw fruit/vegetable fasting and Atom Bergstrom's cheapo parasite cleansing protocol, the itching effect of a bad food reaction went away completely. There's a mild itch associated with the healing/flaking process but absolutely nothing like what it used to feel like after I ate some bread or milk in times past.

Atom's parasite protocol, by the way, is simple - black walnut hulls in the morning, raw pumpkin seeds in the afternoon, and 100% de agave tequila in the evening. Do it for 3-4 weeks starting on a full moon and then do a second cycle around the time of the next full moon in order to guarantee that the eggs aren't going to respawn the problem.

Admittedly I haven't taken any NDT for a few months now, but the NDT that I have on the shelf is from LifeGivingStore.

To bring it full circle, the classic Ray Peat response is that if when you fix the thyroid, virtually all disease states will ameliorate themselves on account of a robust carbohydrate metabolism producing an abundance of energy with which we, as the organism, are most resilient to death, aka full of (fleshly) life.

Sorry I dropped off and never responded. And no, it wasn't the de agave tequila shots every night LOL. Thank you for your additional feedback!

Have you ever tried Caprylic Acid supplements for fungal issues?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Sorry I dropped off and never responded. And no, it wasn't the de agave tequila shots every night LOL. Thank you for your additional feedback!

Have you ever tried Caprylic Acid supplements for fungal issues?

Haha sometimes the dancer's tonic is real.

About 5 or 6 years ago I used the bulletproof MCT oil with a coffee in the mornings but that's as close as I've gotten to caprylic acid. Any luck? What's the buzz?

 

[Kray]

I think it isn't an overnight thing, if it could help at all. I had some on hand and decided it couldn't hurt. I will probably finish the bottle, then see where I am. There have been several threads on Caprylic Acid on the forum, and there is some thought that it can (indirectly) benefit skin ailments, on the internet at-large.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I think it isn't an overnight thing, if it could help at all. I had some on hand and decided it couldn't hurt. I will probably finish the bottle, then see where I am. There have been several threads on Caprylic Acid on the forum, and there is some thought that it can (indirectly) benefit skin ailments, on the internet at-large.

Keep us in the loop!

 

[Kray]

Keep us in the loop!

?

 

[Kray]

Thanks again for your time and insights- I really appreciate your feedback! ?