Psoriasis Solved: Raw Starch Gut Rehab (pics)

[oldfriend]

It's still early, but just thought I would share that my experience with this regimen has been positive so far.
I did the fruit fast for a total of 5 days. My tongue was still slightly coated at times throughout the day, but bowel movements were odor-free and occurring 3 times a day by the 4th day. I was craving junk food by the 5th day, so I figured I would dive into the milch regimen and see what happens.
I am now on day 4 of the milch regimen, and happy to report that I've had 3 formed bowel movements today. The first 3 days were very irregular though, and it was probably compounded by supplementing potato starch on the first day and TUDCA on another. I never quite realized how potent TUDCA is until I took it on this regimen. The excess bile seemed inflammatory, but might just be that my gut is too sensitive for that rn. Anyways, I've always gotten constipated when trying to drink as much milk as I am right now, so this is huge. I was starting to conclude that a fiber supplement might be necessary, and even ordered some yesterday so have that on hand if required. Raw fruit seems to be doing the job though. I'm eating 8 oz. of red grapes at one meal and 2 large peeled apples at the other. Btw I seem to get warm after eating apples, and remembered something from Nathan Hatch's book about apple fiber being especially good food for acetic-acid producing bacteria and acetic is strongly anti-fungal IME. Seems like a good choice for this regimen.

I've been thinking about why some people react so violently to lactose. What does this imply? And why is lactose the most demonized of all FODMAPs? I would say that I am probably somewhat lactose intolerant, but it seems to improving already.
Also, it seems that the milch regiment might be able to resolve bacterial issues on its own, and I don't know that a super long fruit fast is absolutely essential here. Seems more important to get the bowels moving than to have a pristine tongue, but still testing that theory.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

It's still early, but just thought I would share that my experience with this regimen has been positive so far.
I did the fruit fast for a total of 5 days. My tongue was still slightly coated at times throughout the day, but bowel movements were odor-free and occurring 3 times a day by the 4th day. I was craving junk food by the 5th day, so I figured I would dive into the milch regimen and see what happens.
I am now on day 4 of the milch regimen, and happy to report that I've had 3 formed bowel movements today. The first 3 days were very irregular though, and it was probably compounded by supplementing potato starch on the first day and TUDCA on another. I never quite realized how potent TUDCA is until I took it on this regimen. The excess bile seemed inflammatory, but might just be that my gut is too sensitive for that rn. Anyways, I've always gotten constipated when trying to drink as much milk as I am right now, so this is huge. I was starting to conclude that a fiber supplement might be necessary, and even ordered some yesterday so have that on hand if required. Raw fruit seems to be doing the job though. I'm eating 8 oz. of red grapes at one meal and 2 large peeled apples at the other. Btw I seem to get warm after eating apples, and remembered something from Nathan Hatch's book about apple fiber being especially good food for acetic-acid producing bacteria and acetic is strongly anti-fungal IME. Seems like a good choice for this regimen.

Glad to hear someone reporting that the milch regimen is doing the job smoothly as it's outlined in the Turk's post.

Seems more important to get the bowels moving than to have a pristine tongue, but still testing that theory.

For sure. As a blanket statement, it seems that as long as the bowels are moving, the tongue will continue to improve regardless of diet... As long as we're not eating things that constipate us. Thinking about it now, the immediate reaction the body has to get rid of garbage food (like fast food for example) is diarrhea... But if we don't have the hydration ready on board to sport a bout of diarrhea to ditch the poisons, that same crappy food will cause constipation.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Interesting experiment.
I cured my psoriasis/seb. dermatitis by eliminating starch, nightshade, and lectins, while keeping in the milk. With meat, fruit, and milk my digestion and transit time is very good.
It's interesting how people's digestion respond differently to different treatments. Some people cure their gut issues with carnivore and others on a fruitarian diet, however, both those are not sustainable IMO. A starch free diet is much more sustainable in my experience.
If I were to introduce a lot of fiber, especially from raw tubers/grains/starches, my digestion would go downhill pretty fast as they are much more gut-irritating for me.

Even white rice?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Adding some updates to this thread, including recent experimentation with Karen Hurd's "Bean Protocol" courtesy of episode #71 of the Quax podcast [interview]:

For the past week or so, the potato starch has given me some remarkable benefits that have really taken me aback [listed in the middle of this response]. I've since cut back to a simple 4 tablespoons of raw potato starch taken before bed (making a point to brush my teeth before sleeping though).

Just before this, I was doing roughly 4 tablespoons between breakfast and lunch with an additional 4 tablespoons in the evening after dinner, always with milk. I tried taking 1 tablespoon with a meal of red meat one time and it wasn't a good turnout, not recommended.

The reason I cut back on the starch was because it was overly filling and produced a kind of bloating and heaviness in the gut, especially when taken in the morning. It was a great appetite suppressant, but being an ectomorph, it was definitely taking up room that would better be utilized for actual, nutritious food. Strangely I never experienced any typical symptoms of hunger, but I also wasn't as vital or energetic as if I were to replace the starch calories with nutritious food (1 + 1 = 2)

Bowel movements were well formed but long and stringy in nature. Sometimes 2x a day, but usually one.

For a while I tried mixing an equal portion of arrowroot, potato, and green banana starches in addition to acacia fiber, but this wasn't contributing to anything worthwhile. It was definitely messing with my ability to digest meat, especially. Just using potato or arrowroot starch by themselves seems to produce better results all around. I'm on the fence about the green banana starch.

Then, courtesy of a combination of these two webpages...
Animal Pharm: HOW TO CURE SIBO, Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth: Step #4 Eat BIONIC FIBER
The Most Dramatic Resistant Starch Success Story Yet

...I mixed 2 cups of whole-milk kefir, 4 tablespoons of potato starch, 1 teaspoon of modified citrus pectin, and 1 teaspoon of green banana starch together, let it sit for 15-20 minutes, and then consumed with 1/2 - 1 cup of cooked spinach as a replace for the greens-powder. Tried doing this morning and night for a couple days, and then just in the morning, but I can't really vouch for any grand benefit. It just made me feel so full given how thick the milk kefir is.

So again, back to the potato starch, these are the craziest things that it's done for me:

1) I'm not getting sunburned... like at all! I live in Florida and intermittently work outdoors for several days with 4-7 hour shifts and have always, always expected to get lobster fried if I have 4 days lined up in a row. The sun feels good all the time, I'm tanning like a normal Floridian, just a bit of pink on the neck that goes away after a night's sleep at the worst. No pain, dehydrated mouth, nothing. It's faaaaaaantastic.

2) Lending itself to the first point, my ability to sweat is at-the-ready. It's not uncomfortable or stressful in the slightest, nor do I reach a point of dehydration that is usually an apparent sensation on the back of my tongue. Further, my entire body sweats locally as it's heated. For instance, if I'm wearing pants, my legs will sweat more than my upper body, which has never been the case. Since I can remember, there has always been a kind of congestion in which I'll sweat from the top-down before any substantial perspiration appears on the legs, say when driving a car in hot weather. This is a difficult thing to convey over words, but nonetheless I say that:

3) My bodily temperature regulation is leagues better than it ever has been in years past. I'm not feeling cold extremities ever, even when bouncing in between air-conditioning and tropical weather. I'm maintaining bodily warmth in situations where apparently hypo-thyroid people are in long sleeves and pants, and I've no issues of cold feet before falling asleep.

4) My food sensitivities have been dramatically reduced. I haven't eaten anything like fast-food trashy, but a typical local burrito or thai dish that I would normally expect to see and feel kickback within an hour over isn't even a thought. Same thing with eggs, happy to be able to eat them again. I'm not totally out of the woods because if I check the mirror after these things like burritos and thai food, etc, there is still a flare of redness but:

5) (Skin) Inflammation recovery time is reduced by at least 50%. Previous offenses that I would have expected 24 hours including a good night's rest on a clean stomach to recover from are often greatly resolved before going to bed that same day, particularly if I shower, brush, floss, and don't eat any heavy food a few hours after sundown.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So this is all great, well, and fantastic. With just the potato starch alone, I have found pretty steady ground, especially when it's used as an overnight dose.

But then I heard this chat with Karen Hurd about her "Bean protocol" Credit: Quax podcast

TL; DR - Pair 1/2 cup of any style of bean with breakfast, lunch, and dinner in order to hit a total of 15 grams of soluble fiber. The soluble fiber binds with bile acid that is secreted when we eat. The bile acid of the gall bladder & liver accrues an increasing concentration of acid when we continue to consumed processed food chemicals, fats, and/or are exposed to nerve-toxic gases like paint, gasoline, or bug spray for instance.

If there isn't enough soluble fiber with which to neutralize the secreted bile acid upon eating food, the excess bile acid will be recirculated by the liver, further decreasing the pH (making more acidic) the pH of the various valves of the GI tract, such as the jejunum, illeum, duodenum, etc. The neutralized bile acid leaves via the stool with the rest of the fat soluble toxins of the body.

The reason for the beans is because they have the highest concentration of soluble fiber content out of all the food groups.

The bean protocol isn't helpful for people with kidney disease (though the severity of the kidney disease is taken on a case-by-case basis). She suggests psyllium (can't remember if it was seed or husk) as a replacement to the beans in some cases.

Karen has an interesting take on probiotics - she mentioned that unless someone has a C. diff. infection, that they have plenty of 'good' bacteria present already... And that when someone experiences a so-called relief of constipation with regular bowel movements upon taking probiotics that they are actually losing good bacteria that are being starved by the newly-inserted, competitive supplemental probiotic bacteria.

When asked what it treats, she recounts that she's had thousands of letters of appreciation, but right off mentions the bean protocol as a remedy to women's fertility issues, adrenal issues, and type 2 diabetes & insulin resistance, which I thought was remarkable... Because James Wilson ties the occurrence of all of these things together in his book Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome.

So I've been eating beans in varying amounts 2-3x a day for the last 3-4 days now and it's done a few things for me so far:

1) Hair quality is way better! The last time my hair looked and felt like this, I was 22 just starting to be mindful of not eating garbage almost every day. It went from flat to fit in just a few days, I swear.

2) Sense of smell has improved.

3) Face has perked up, pulled taut. My eyes aren't slack and my cheeks are drooping as much. Hard to discern via photo, but it's very apparent to me when I look in the mirror.

4) Better everything - more stable mood, heart-rate during workouts, sweat during workouts, sleep quality, feelings of satiety, lack of feeling of dehydration.

In particular with regard to that last point, I have been feeling quite dehydrated in the evenings, feeling the need to drink 1.5-2 quarts of water each night around bed to quench the thirst just to wake up to pee more often than not. Now I'm for-sure holding onto water, probably due to the mineral content of the beans. Potassium repletion, perhaps?

Bowel movements are still 1-2x/day but with substantially more girth as a result of the bean addition.

The only rule of thumb I've learned for sure about eating beans is that they digest better when not paired with lean meat. Still trying to figure out if combining them with milk is a good or bad idea.

I've been using dry black beans that have been cooked in a few inches of water on the "high" setting of an Instant Pot pressure cooker for 21 minutes. Soaking them for 8-12 hours beforehand and then pressure cooking for 8-10 minutes instead should make them a little more digestible, though.

 

[oldfriend]

Thanks for sharing @Twohandsondeck , your posts have been an inspiration.
I'm eager to give the potato starch a try after getting into a good rhythm with the milch regimen. As I mentioned before, I was thinking about adding some soluble fiber in place of the bran / agar agar, partly because I'd read that soluble fiber is a good vehicle for transporting bile out of the body. The literature in turk thread talks about bacterial accumulation in the gall bladder, putrefaction of bile and even Ray Peat talks positively about fiber and its ability to absorb bile and prevent endotoxin from recirculating. The fiber I have on hand is Heather's tummy fiber, fermentable and soluble. I'm going to try introducing that slowly (and maybe even give the TUDCA another try as it seems to excel at getting bile into the digestive tract, but one thing at a time). I'm also feeling dehydrated in the evenings, and agree with your sentiments about holding onto water. That seems to be one of the down sides of liquid diets for me. Peeing all the time or, with salt supplementation, getting water retention in tissues and both seem to leave me feeling dehydrated.

One quick note, the physical activity / walking component seem to be an important aspect of this regimen. I've been lax about it as the literature doesn't recommend it until the 2nd week, but I'm already noticing that I'm not quite as regular on more inactive days.

 

[Hans]

Even white rice?

Rice is not as bad as potatoes, but I'm not having them atm.

 

[Inaut]

I add potato starch to my milk shake now. Definitely lowers any bloat I’ve had. Bowel movements are really good since including PS. My body temperature after dinner is very warm. Never felt like this before tbh

 

[Twohandsondeck]

The fiber I have on hand is Heather's tummy fiber, fermentable and soluble.

Yeah! That's the acacia fiber I have too. If you figure out a way to take it and get positive results, please share.

One quick note, the physical activity / walking component seem to be an important aspect of this regimen. I've been lax about it as the literature doesn't recommend it until the 2nd week, but I'm already noticing that I'm not quite as regular on more inactive days.

Definitely. Walking (outside) can't be understated. There's a reason why it's the human default.

Never felt like this before tbh

Winnneerrrr

 

[not_James_Bond]

I add potato starch to my milk shake now. Definitely lowers any bloat I’ve had. Bowel movements are really good since including PS. My body temperature after dinner is very warm. Never felt like this before tbh

@Inaut Is that whole milk, semi or skimmed?, also is it chilled or warmed milk?

 

[Inaut]

Whole milk ( and I add heavy cream to it). Its delicious and I'm not getting fat which is a plus. Its cool to room temperature.

 

[not_James_Bond]

Whole milk ( and I add heavy cream to it). Its delicious and I'm not getting fat which is a plus. Its cool to room temperature.

Great, thank you, I prefer whole milk and have potato starch, will take before bed.

 

[Ihor]

@Twohandsondeck is there any information about which potato starch will be better, raw dissolved in water or cooked through heated and then cooled?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

@Twohandsondeck is there any information about which potato starch will be better, raw dissolved in water or cooked through heated and then cooled?

As a general rule, the more something is cooked, the higher up in the intestinal tract it's liable to digest. I can't think of any food groups which go against this principle. The purpose of the potato starch is to make it to the end of the intestines.

Applying heat to any food source will change it's chemistry and, in some, will increase the chance that the immune system will overreact to it's consumption.

In the case of the potato starch, since it's already an isolated carbohydrate stripped of the surrounding natural complexes of the potato, it's (likely) especially vulnerable to chemical change compared to it's naturally occurring presence in the potato.

Or maybe I've got it backwards... And because it's isolated, it's much more resistant to chemical change...

But either way, I say don't fix what isn't broken. The research surrounding the milch regimen specifically mentions lactose and raw starch... And if you spend any time at all combing through virtually any health forum, you're going to see numerous complaints about [cooked] starch causing the many mysterious symptoms of endotoxemia.

 

[Ben.]

Adding some updates to this thread, including recent experimentation with Karen Hurd's "Bean Protocol" courtesy of episode #71 of the Quax podcast [interview]:

Wow that interview was very interesting. I also immediatly followed up on the next Interview he had with Dr Jason Hawrelak about the microgut biome.
He talks about one case where regular bowel movements do not indicate good transit times. An example was this one patient who had atleast one bowel movement a day but it took 26 days for this one food to completly leave the digestive track ... Holy ***t.

They mention instant diabetes or depression for 5 hours if you would inject endotoxins into a person too ...
Unlike the ray peat forums philosophy this doctor encourages a wide variety of foods especially whole food plants/veggies/fruits. Dr Kishan who was linked by Inaut also recommends that. Guess thats a more common view with microbiome researchers. Apparantly Dr Jason Hawrelak isn't as much into probiotics and sees prebiotics and food as much more effective and important in changing the gut microbiome. Apparantly you can change alot within one Month.

There is one thing that scared me tho. He said limited diet's and antiobitcs could lead to potential extinctions of certain bacteria. Once they are extinct you won't get them back unless you drink mother's milk or ... consume/transplant fecal's ... I can see myself drinking some mother's milk but no idea how fecal's could be integrated. Let alone the medical practioneer's barriers one would face to get this tested and the transplant done. But thats a question i raised earlier in this thread already.

Animal Pharm: HOW TO CURE SIBO, Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth: Step #4 Eat BIONIC FIBER
The Most Dramatic Resistant Starch Success Story Yet

I find your results very interesting. i browsed the animal pharm page and it would indicate that resistant potatoe starch is not good as it does not feed the benefitial bacterias like Bifidobacteria longum, Roseburia, F. prausnitzii and Akkermansia. Even going so far as to say it could deplete them in a long term high dosage usage. But seeing how great of results some have here it could imply that reducing them to a certain number could be potentially beneficial. But that would also suggest (pardon if my logic is flawed) that this only helps/works for a certain time and once benefits subside or worse, symptoms get worse let alone new once arise ... you/we should stop using raw potatoe starch.

Perhaps it also works that well because it feeds bacteria or strains which are not yet discovered/identified.

So I've been eating beans in varying amounts 2-3x a day for the last 3-4 days now and it's done a few things for me so far:

1) Hair quality is way better! The last time my hair looked and felt like this, I was 22 just starting to be mindful of not eating garbage almost every day. It went from flat to fit in just a few days, I swear.

2) Sense of smell has improved.

3) Face has perked up, pulled taut. My eyes aren't slack and my cheeks are drooping as much. Hard to discern via photo, but it's very apparent to me when I look in the mirror.

4) Better everything - more stable mood, heart-rate during workouts, sweat during workouts, sleep quality, feelings of satiety, lack of feeling of dehydration.


The only rule of thumb I've learned for sure about eating beans is that they digest better when not paired with lean meat. Still trying to figure out if combining them with milk is a good or bad idea.

This is amazing, according to kate most people would benefit from these fibers. I'll try and see how this affects my body. I realy enjoy this because regardless of what philosophy one does follow, limiting foods in general always leaves this wierd feeling to me that something does not add up. For instance i like ray peats pov which took away alot of reservation i had about sugar and proteins (which mainstream media and medicine claims is the reason for everything bad, and i see this thinking everywhere in my social life). This interview with Karen realy gave me another good perspective towards beans/lentils which among most diet/health pages are just plain evil with their phytic acid and lectins. But on daily dosages like this i defenietly see soaking/cooking as mandatory.

 

[oldfriend]

Yeah! That's the acacia fiber I have too. If you figure out a way to take it and get positive results, please share.

I took two teaspoons spaced apart at two of the bran times yesterday. I definitely felt somewhat bloated and constipated, and had one of those evil snake shits this morning. Definitely more pigmented as well, which may indicate putrefaction according to the literature but I don't really know. I can't associate those kinds of bowel movements with anything positive in my life, just increasing volume and the sensation of emptied-ness afterwards. I wonder if fiber can be treated more as a tool of maintenance rather than a daily requirement. Excess fiber consumption one or more days a week to facilitate the removal of bile and endotoxin. I also wonder if simply adding more fruit to the milch regimen is a good alternative to the bran / agar agar. Going to try the potato starch now.

This is amazing, according to kate most people would benefit from these fibers. I'll try and see how this affects my body. I realy enjoy this because regardless of what philosophy one does follow, limiting foods in general always leaves this wierd feeling to me that something does not add up. For instance i like ray peats pov which took away alot of reservation i had about sugar and proteins (which mainstream media and medicine claims is the reason for everything bad, and i see this thinking everywhere in my social life). This interview with Karen realy gave me another good perspective towards beans/lentils which among most diet/health pages are just plain evil with their phytic acid and lectins. But on daily dosages like this i defenietly see soaking/cooking as mandatory.

Will play devil's advocate here. I don't have any evidence for lectins or phytic acid being a problem, but but beans/lentils have led to an increase in estrogenic symptoms when trying to incorporate them in my diet over the last couple of years. Maybe the phytoestrogens, or maybe inflammation. Not sure. Maybe after healing your gut they are tolerable? In my experience, fiber tolerance in general is really dependent on the integrity of the gut, and many people (vegans) who advocate for lots of beans and starch in the diet seem like genetic lottery winners to me.

 

[Ben.]

Will play devil's advocate here. I don't have any evidence for lectins or phytic acid being a problem, but but beans/lentils have led to an increase in estrogenic symptoms when trying to incorporate them in my diet over the last couple of years. Maybe the phytoestrogens, or maybe inflammation. Not sure. Maybe after healing your gut they are tolerable? In my experience, fiber tolerance in general is really dependent on the integrity of the gut, and many people (vegans) who advocate for lots of beans and starch in the diet seem like genetic lottery winners to me.

From what i understood going trough the interview 3 times is that some gut issues could actually even more so benefit from it, you'd need way higher dosages tho. Asuming that what karen says is correct. If beans don't work or as mentioned above in OP's TL;DR you have a kidney issues she recommends psyllium instead.

But with all things i don't think there is a cookie cutter solution to all problems. Not with veganism, carnivore, low carb, paleo and ... dare i say it ... not even ray peats philosophy. The fruit fast for example didnt work out for me at all, and i dont dare to go trough the milk regime considering where my gut is at the moment.

I went trough a couple of websites and for some this bean protocol realy helped out with chronic issues. I'd actually love to go trough one of her e-courses but damn they are expensive ... and i blew way to much money this year on supplements and medical bills ...

 

[oldfriend]

The fruit fast for example didnt work out for me at all, and i dont dare to go trough the milk regime considering where my gut is at the moment.

I'm curious, did you drink lots of water and eat plenty of fruit, getting over 2000 calories? Sometimes the difference between purging fiber and constipation has been a few extra glasses of water for me, especially with psyllium.

Coincidentally, I was eating a meal of beans and lentils every day right before I started this experiment. I had been very constipated before that, but cutting out meat and adding in more fiber seemed to fix to that right away. Immediately lost my libido as well though Perhaps that is what put my gut in good shape to have some success with this regimen though

 

[Summer]

Tried 1/2 tsp of green banana flour before bed. I know this is a very small dose of RS but I woke up so many times throughout the night after some very strange nightmares.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Tried 1/2 tsp of green banana flour before bed. I know this is a very small dose of RS but I woke up so many times throughout the night after some very strange nightmares.

Yeah based on what I've tried to do with green banana starch I agree that it might not be a great help.

I think it's because green banana is basically unripe fruit sugar which is a completely different from a root or tuber sugar. All fruit is best consumed as ripe as possible, and green banana flour is about as unripe as it gets.

The stuff is sticky and feels awful on my teeth to boot. Fortunately it's only a loss of a few bucks.

 

[Summer]

Yeah based on what I've tried to do with green banana starch I agree that it might not be a great help.

I think it's because green banana is basically unripe fruit sugar which is a completely different from a root or tuber sugar. All fruit is best consumed as ripe as possible, and green banana flour is about as unripe as it gets.

The stuff is sticky and feels awful on my teeth to boot. Fortunately it's only a loss of a few bucks.

You may be right. I would have gone for potato starch but raw potato has its own issues that steered me away from it. I’m gonna continue with it because on paper, green bananas have the same type of resistant starch as a raw potato. Thanks for all the info on this thread.