Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[raypeatclips]

I'll wait on others to chime in, but in the meantime I will say that I have had the same experience with a higher oral dose of vitamin K2 (MK-4) from another vendor. Taking 30mg (or heaven forbid more) in a single dose gave me the most intense insomnia, agitation, and sweating I have ever experienced. I also thought it is thyroid storm but obviously had no way of checking at the time.

What is the best way to get out of the agitation stage when taking K2? Is it dangerous?

 

[acrylic]

@haidut

Thoughts on this quote from Peat re: DMSO?

"I think some of its effects depend on the breakdown products. People often forget that it has an intrinsic oxidative effect when they are thinking of it as just a solvent, to transport drugs. I saw a product sold as eye drops, consisting of vitamin C and glutathione in DMSO. Each of those reductants, in the presence of DMSO, immediately breaks down into other substances, and the composition changes continually over a long period. There has been very little investigation of the actual composition of solutions of DMSO with other substances. At least some of the mixtures will produce sulfite and metabisulfite, which are very allergenic for some people. Small amounts are probably harmless; even large amounts seem harmless for some people. Its ability to release histamine and nitric oxide and to inhibit cholinesterase (articles below) suggest that its use shouldn’t be prolonged."

 

[acrylic]

I think this is the article referenced:

Dimethyl sulfoxide: inhibition of acetylcholinesterase in the mammalian heart. - PubMed - NCBI


Biochem Pharmacol. 1984 Feb 1;33(3):365-9.
Dimethyl sulfoxide: inhibition of acetylcholinesterase in the mammalian heart.
Watts JA, Hoogmoed RP.
Abstract
The heart rate of the isolated, perfused, working rat heart was significantly and equally depressed by 1 X 10(-6)M acetylcholine (ACh) and by 6 X 10(-5)M 4-ketoamyltrimethylammonium (4K), a cholinomimetic agonist. Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) (10 microliter/ml, 140 mM) strongly potentiated the effect of ACh but did not alter the effect of 4K. DMSO (10 microliter/ml, 140 mM) strongly potentiated the effect of ACh but did not alter the effect of 4K. DMSO (10 microliter/ml, 140 mM final concentration) alone had no significant effect upon heart rate when added to the perfusate in incremental additions of 1 microliter X (ml perfusate)-1 X min-1 over a 10-min period. The specific activity of atrial homogenate cholinesterase was 48.8 +/- 3.46 nmoles X min-1 X (mg protein)-1 (mean +/- S.E.M.), 38.2 +/- 1.60 for butyrylcholinesterase, and 11.2 +/- 0.86 for acetylcholinesterase (AChE). True AChE activity (measured in the presence of a maximally effective concentration of tetraisopropylpyrophosphoramide) had a Vmax of 13.4 +/- 0.17 nmoles X min-1 X mg protein)-1 and an apparent Km value of 1 X 10(-4)M acetylthiocholine. At this Km substrate concentration, DMSO inhibited atrial AChE activity (I50 = 9 microliter/ml). At the concentration tested, DMSO inhibited atrial AChE and potentiated ACh effects.

@haidut

Thoughts on this quote from Peat re: DMSO?

"I think some of its effects depend on the breakdown products. People often forget that it has an intrinsic oxidative effect when they are thinking of it as just a solvent, to transport drugs. I saw a product sold as eye drops, consisting of vitamin C and glutathione in DMSO. Each of those reductants, in the presence of DMSO, immediately breaks down into other substances, and the composition changes continually over a long period. There has been very little investigation of the actual composition of solutions of DMSO with other substances. At least some of the mixtures will produce sulfite and metabisulfite, which are very allergenic for some people. Small amounts are probably harmless; even large amounts seem harmless for some people. Its ability to release histamine and nitric oxide and to inhibit cholinesterase (articles below) suggest that its use shouldn’t be prolonged."

 

[Agent207]

This is the only aspect that concerns me about idealabs supps, no glass option. DMSO + ethanol + plastic.

Even if it were at higher price for a few bucks I think it doesnt worth the risk or posibility of introducing nasty particles inside the body potenciated by DMSO.

 

[lollipop]

This is the only aspect that concerns me about idealabs supps, no glass option. DMSO + ethanol + plastic.

Even if it were at higher price for a few bucks I think it doesnt worth the risk or posibility of introducing nasty particles inside the body potenciated by DMSO.

I also would be willing to pay more:

I would love to see all of IdeaLabs products sold in miron glass. The highest quality available currently on the planet:

MIRON Violettglas AG | Violet-Glass for bottles and jars | Protection from light and preservation of bio-energy

I would be willing to pay whatever extra it would cost!!

Cross posting on the Kuinone thread where this concern of plastic also came up.

 

[Jman]

@haidut Any chance of making a second option for kuinone, having it just in mct oil?

 

[raypeatclips]

I get the agitation from administering orally, but not topically. Anyone else have this?

 

[Regina]

Vitamin K is unique among all vitamins in that it probably does not need to be balanced by other vitamins. It has no upper known tolerable intake limit for humans or animals, which means that the body likes to get as much as it can. It's the E, A, and D that usually need to be balanced by each other. So, I'd say no matter how much Kuinone you take you can probably keep your regular EstroBan intake.

I began taking 45mg Thorne Vitamin K drops per day (3 doses of 15 drops) for about 10 days now. I'm moving over to Kuinone which arrived today. On Tuesday after an aikido class, (I was of course soaked with sweat) I noticed something peculiar. When I pulled off my soaked gi, I noticed there was an area of maybe 4"x5" on my stomach with white grit on it. A few minutes ago I put maybe 5 drops of Kuinone on my face. I just noticed that there were some small white grit substance on my knee. Is this calcium??? I am trying to repair bursistis in my shoulders and wrist soreness for my aikido practice. Thank you!!

 

[tara]

When I pulled off my soaked gi, I noticed there was an area of maybe 4"x5" on my stomach with white grit on it. A few minutes ago I put maybe 5 drops of Kuinone on my face. I just noticed that there were some small white grit substance on my knee. Is this calcium???

It's not salt, is it?

 

[Regina]

It's not salt, is it?

Thanks for the idea Tara. I'll give it a taste if I see any more white pixie dust on me after K2 application.

 

[Blossom]

It's not salt, is it?

That's what I was thinking it might be too!

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Thoughts on this quote from Peat re: DMSO?

"I think some of its effects depend on the breakdown products. People often forget that it has an intrinsic oxidative effect when they are thinking of it as just a solvent, to transport drugs. I saw a product sold as eye drops, consisting of vitamin C and glutathione in DMSO. Each of those reductants, in the presence of DMSO, immediately breaks down into other substances, and the composition changes continually over a long period. There has been very little investigation of the actual composition of solutions of DMSO with other substances. At least some of the mixtures will produce sulfite and metabisulfite, which are very allergenic for some people. Small amounts are probably harmless; even large amounts seem harmless for some people. Its ability to release histamine and nitric oxide and to inhibit cholinesterase (articles below) suggest that its use shouldn’t be prolonged."

How many times is this going to be quoted? Why skip the other relevant part from the quote?
"...Small amounts are probably harmless; even large amounts seem harmless for some people"

In the doses used in our supplements, DMSO is less likely to cause systemic side effect than for a person to get hit by a lightning. User @burtlancast posted a study showing DMSO is 7-times safer than aspirin. In the small doses found in our products, that factor probably increase to 10-fold. I wish there was a solvent with the same benefits as DMSO but with no side effects. Until we find one, the measures taken to lower the risk as much as possible are likely enough for most people. If somebody thinks they are reacting badly then please stop using the supplement. I won't blame you. I don't expect everything we sell to work for everybody.

 

[snowboard111]

Kind of off topic a little... I was wondering if any of you see any problems with giving a drop (or higher) 2 or 3 times a week to a older dog? He's an 11 years old labrador and he's quite big (not fat).

I know they give straight DMSO to dog for cancer and inflammation so that's a plus and I guess k2 should be good as well... Just can't really figured out if I am missing something that would be bad for him.

Thanks

 

[Benjamin Button]

Just received my kuinone, amongst other haidut supplements. I instinctively put them in my fridge 'coz stuff lasts longer in there', however I decided to double check storage instructions online and found that retinil should not be stored in the fridge.
I can't find out how to store the kuinone anywhere online... Is the fridge alright, or will I just keep it under my bed?
(Glad you do what you do haidut, it's great. Maybe you can add brief storage instructions on your supps though.)

 

[What-a-Riot]

Haidut has said it doesn't need to be refrigerated and the important thing is to keep it away from light, not sure if there's any more, but there's that for now

 

[Benjamin Button]

ok thanks.

I didn't see that when I was scanning through the threads earlier..

 

[johnwester130]

Does the mk4 powder dissolve in oil ?? How does the Thorne product work ?

And can we all agree mk7 is useless ?

 

[haidut]

Kind of off topic a little... I was wondering if any of you see any problems with giving a drop (or higher) 2 or 3 times a week to a older dog? He's an 11 years old labrador and he's quite big (not fat).

I know they give straight DMSO to dog for cancer and inflammation so that's a plus and I guess k2 should be good as well... Just can't really figured out if I am missing something that would be bad for him.

Thanks

Assuming the vet is not against it, I think it may benefit the dog as they are very prone to cancer as they age. If there are obvious superficial growths/masses then you may want to apply the Kuinone directly on them for stronger effect.

 

[haidut]

ok thanks.

I didn't see that when I was scanning through the threads earlier..

Yes, as @Benjamin Button said, keeping away from strong sunlight is the main thing. No need to refrigerate.

 

[haidut]

Does the mk4 powder dissolve in oil ?? How does the Thorne product work ?

And can we all agree mk7 is useless ?

MK-4 does dissolve in oil but in my experience it is less compared to DMSO/ethanol. Not sure what Thorne does to dissolve theirs and keep it homogenized.