High Carb Vegans. What Are They Getting Right/wrong?

[RabuRabu]

Some of the only other people out there who promote sugar/fructose are the high carb vegans.

On the positive side they are more aware of metabolism than most and it seems like one of the ways they have gotten around the low protein intake is by adapting to very high calorie intakes to bring their net protein intake up.

On the other hand, I've recently noticed several making posts/videos about intense acne problems. My theory is the massive intake of beta-carotene is blocking vit A. They also eat massive amounts of fiber which is probably causing some issues.

Any thoughts?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I working on a detailed post about this. Check back soon.

 

[RabuRabu]

post 114741 I working on a detailed post about this. Check back soon.

 

[ThunderSpank]

The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

 

[Peata]

Soy milk, tofu. Flax. What about the phyto estrogens, beans, whole grains, and soy?

I was vegan for six months and had acne though I didn't touch any dairy or dairy fat. I ate lots of vegetables, fruit, whole grains, beans, and soy products.

I also had acne when not vegan but still dairy-free. So I'm not sure about the dairy - acne connection though many people do report it.

 

[kyev]

I was high carb raw vegan for several years. A few issues in my personal experience:

-Constant bloating and hunger. The diet itself never addressed my IBS issues.

-Improved, but never helped my dry skin (keratosis pilars)

-Still felt fatigued on it


I think the diet can work if you are seeking out the highest quality, un-denatured fruits and vegetables. Otherwise your'e missing out on nutrients that are pretty easily gotten from meat/dairy. I think long term, it's also too low in fat.

 

[milk_lover]

Milk is awesome, but many people here abuse it, i.e., drinking gallons of milk--even worse full-fat milk, and then when their health goes in the wrong direction for whatever reason, they blame it on milk! Milk in context is nourishing. You can still get the benefits of milk by just drinking one cup or two. Why people take the extreme approach, either gallons or zero drop of milk, is truly puzzling to me. Days can pass by without drinking milk if good milk is not available. In other days, you can drink it whenever you feel like it.

 

[FredSonoma]

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

What kind of symptoms do milk give you? I suspect milk is giving me issues but I'm not really sure. I have digestive / bloating / face puffiness, and I often feel very tired after eating, especially earlier in the day.

 

[welshwing]

post 114753 Milk is awesome, but many people here abuse it, i.e., drinking gallons of milk--even worse full-fat milk, and then when their health goes in the wrong direction for whatever reason, they blame it on milk! Milk in context is nourishing. You can still get the benefits of milk by just drinking one cup or two. Why people take the extreme approach, either gallons or zero drop of milk, is truly puzzling to me. Days can pass by without drinking milk if good milk is not available. In other days, you can drink it whenever you feel like it.

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

This surprises me because Ray Peat used to drink a gallon of 1% milk a day and most people here overlook the added vitamin D and A. I used to drink it too and found I was healthiest on a high dairy diet. Also, milk makes me feel warm really quickly and I drink ultra-pasteurized, homogenized, vitamin D & A milk. It only gave me stomach problems when I was suddenly drinking large quantities of it but easing into it prevented further issues.

I'm not very good at listening to my body but I don't think I feel bad from drinking .5-1 gallon of milk per day, I don't get fat doing this either. I also take a lot of advice from this site and many people have said that milk is good (until reading these replies) so I've been eating it as a staple food again for the past few months, along with a daily carrots, some eggs, cheese, potatoes and whatever other stuff is on this list viewtopic.php?style=47&f=2&t=20. No problems except I'm 19 and I am always concerned about my lack of feedback my body gives me regardless of what I eat - possibly due to my age, most people my age don't notice the problems their diet causes until It's too late. I still haven't bothered to check my temp, blood or anything like that.

Bottom line: I can be wrong and too much milk is bad, but I don't notice any negatives.

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 114772

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

What kind of symptoms do milk give you? I suspect milk is giving me issues but I'm not really sure. I have digestive / bloating / face puffiness, and I often feel very tired after eating, especially earlier in the day.

Milk seems to make me retain water like crazy, and gives me dandruff that can't be cured even with very high dose vitamin A. Also I notice a drop in libido when I drink it. I only use to drink between 8-12 cups 1% per day with no other dairy. I'm in a pickle when it comes to milk because it's my favorite food but I'm not so sure American cows are producing safe milk. I just don't understand why its making me gain so much weight... Honestly I don't know.. I'm very angry about the whole subject.

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 114788

post 114753 Milk is awesome, but many people here abuse it, i.e., drinking gallons of milk--even worse full-fat milk, and then when their health goes in the wrong direction for whatever reason, they blame it on milk! Milk in context is nourishing. You can still get the benefits of milk by just drinking one cup or two. Why people take the extreme approach, either gallons or zero drop of milk, is truly puzzling to me. Days can pass by without drinking milk if good milk is not available. In other days, you can drink it whenever you feel like it.

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

This surprises me because Ray Peat used to drink a gallon of 1% milk a day and most people here overlook the added vitamin D and A. I used to drink it too and found I was healthiest on a high dairy diet. Also, milk makes me feel warm really quickly and I drink ultra-pasteurized, homogenized, vitamin D & A milk. It only gave me stomach problems when I was suddenly drinking large quantities of it but easing into it prevented further issues.

I'm not very good at listening to my body but I don't think I feel bad from drinking .5-1 gallon of milk per day, I don't get fat doing this either. I also take a lot of advice from this site and many people have said that milk is good (until reading these replies) so I've been eating it as a staple food again for the past few months, along with a daily carrots, some eggs, cheese, potatoes and whatever other stuff is on this list https://raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... 7&f=2&t=20. No problems except I'm 19 and I am always concerned about my lack of feedback my body gives me regardless of what I eat - possibly due to my age, most people my age don't notice the problems their diet causes until It's too late. I still haven't bothered to check my temp, blood or anything like that.

Bottom line: I can be wrong and too much milk is bad, but I don't notice any negatives.

If it makes you feel good, warms you up etc.. and you don't notice any negatives i would keep drinking it.

 

[tara]

post 114803

post 114788Bottom line: I can be wrong and too much milk is bad, but I don't notice any negatives.

If it makes you feel good, warms you up etc.. and you don't notice any negatives i would keep drinking it.

I agree.
It seems as though milk is great food if you can digest it well. But some of us can't so we have to be a bit more cautious.

 

[FredSonoma]

post 114801

post 114772

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

What kind of symptoms do milk give you? I suspect milk is giving me issues but I'm not really sure. I have digestive / bloating / face puffiness, and I often feel very tired after eating, especially earlier in the day.

Milk seems to make me retain water like crazy, and gives me dandruff that can't be cured even with very high dose vitamin A. Also I notice a drop in libido when I drink it. I only use to drink between 8-12 cups 1% per day with no other dairy. I'm in a pickle when it comes to milk because it's my favorite food but I'm not so sure American cows are producing safe milk. I just don't understand why its making me gain so much weight... Honestly I don't know.. I'm very angry about the whole subject.

Yeah I imagine it wouldn't be easy doing this without milk - I guess I should try it. Have you tried goat milk? How do you do with cheeses?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Low protein is the biggest mistake.

But, #s, lots of food toxins is another mistake. Ray doesn't talk a ton about food toxins, but assumes you're not going to eat beans and wheat etc. But Vegans depend on high-toxin protein sources with anti-nutrients in them.

Also, there is no way to get enough B12 on a Vegan diet. I believe this to be true.

I can't imagine a worse way to eat over the long run, although some people seem to thrive on it (I suppose.)

 

[Nicholas]

post 114739 Some of the only other people out there who promote sugar/fructose are the high carb vegans.

On the positive side they are more aware of metabolism than most and it seems like one of the ways they have gotten around the low protein intake is by adapting to very high calorie intakes to bring their net protein intake up.

On the other hand, I've recently noticed several making posts/videos about intense acne problems. My theory is the massive intake of beta-carotene is blocking vit A. They also eat massive amounts of fiber which is probably causing some issues.

Any thoughts?

thinking out loud: amino acids are an important stimulator of stomach acid. carbs are overall alkaline (i don't know if that really makes a difference). with low stomach acid, there would be less nutrient absorption as well as greater incidence of bacterial issues. and a double-whammy because the liver, most notably, needs enough protein....and low stomach acid negatively impacts the liver. However, with greater amounts of raw/cooked fruits and vegetables, you could have healthy bile output as a plus as well as more enzymes?....very anti-estrogen and helpful towards detoxification. But you have to have both good enzyme function and good stomach acid function. healthy looking and regular bowel movements may not be the only indicator of health.

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 114827

post 114801

post 114772

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

What kind of symptoms do milk give you? I suspect milk is giving me issues but I'm not really sure. I have digestive / bloating / face puffiness, and I often feel very tired after eating, especially earlier in the day.

Milk seems to make me retain water like crazy, and gives me dandruff that can't be cured even with very high dose vitamin A. Also I notice a drop in libido when I drink it. I only use to drink between 8-12 cups 1% per day with no other dairy. I'm in a pickle when it comes to milk because it's my favorite food but I'm not so sure American cows are producing safe milk. I just don't understand why its making me gain so much weight... Honestly I don't know.. I'm very angry about the whole subject.

Yeah I imagine it wouldn't be easy doing this without milk - I guess I should try it. Have you tried goat milk? How do you do with cheeses?

I'm not a huge fan of cheese, its nutrient content is garbage compared to milk. I would try goats milk but its typically pretty expensive where I live compared to cows milk. I'm going to try a few more things to see if I can't make cows milk work better for me.

 

[FredSonoma]

post 114848

post 114827

post 114801

post 114772

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

What kind of symptoms do milk give you? I suspect milk is giving me issues but I'm not really sure. I have digestive / bloating / face puffiness, and I often feel very tired after eating, especially earlier in the day.

Milk seems to make me retain water like crazy, and gives me dandruff that can't be cured even with very high dose vitamin A. Also I notice a drop in libido when I drink it. I only use to drink between 8-12 cups 1% per day with no other dairy. I'm in a pickle when it comes to milk because it's my favorite food but I'm not so sure American cows are producing safe milk. I just don't understand why its making me gain so much weight... Honestly I don't know.. I'm very angry about the whole subject.

Yeah I imagine it wouldn't be easy doing this without milk - I guess I should try it. Have you tried goat milk? How do you do with cheeses?

I'm not a huge fan of cheese, its nutrient content is garbage compared to milk. I would try goats milk but its typically pretty expensive where I live compared to cows milk. I'm going to try a few more things to see if I can't make cows milk work better for me.

Interesting, I do notice milk isn't as satisfying as cheese, and cheese is too fatty, I can't eat that much of it. Why is it so much worse than milk though?

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 114829 Low protein is the biggest mistake.

But, #s, lots of food toxins is another mistake. Ray doesn't talk a ton about food toxins, but assumes you're not going to eat beans and wheat etc. But Vegans depend on high-toxin protein sources with anti-nutrients in them.

Also, there is no way to get enough B12 on a Vegan diet. I believe this to be true.

I can't imagine a worse way to eat over the long run, although some people seem to thrive on it (I suppose.)

I think if we lived like our ancestors ( ate more dirt that was on food ) and we didn't really wash our hands excessively like most do today, b12 wouldn't probably be an issue.

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 114849

post 114848

post 114827

post 114801

post 114772

post 114745 The ones eating good don't get acne. Eating vegan, low pufa ( fruits, potatoes, rice and a little well cooked greens ) my skin is perfect. I don't believe for one second acne is primarily caused by vitamin A deficiency. One of its main causes is high estrogen. People who eat lots of dairy and get acne will usually claim its the raise in metabolism that causes a vitamin A deficiency.... Full fat sour cream is very good at causing acne for me. Because of the increased metabolic demands??? Then why does it cause weight gain? Why is Sally Fallon fat? Its estrogen. I see plenty of vegans with perfect skin and I see plenty with very bad skin, often the ones with bad skin are eating lots of soy and or unsaturated fats. Vitamin A helps with acne because it lowers estrogen. Eating a moderate amount of calories from low fat milk, orange juice, cocoa, carrot and liver has made my gain over 30 lbs in the last year. I drop my dairy for one single day and I pee like crazy and lose 3 pounds of water.. Just in one day. I LOVE Dr Ray Peat, but the dairy industry has ruined milk in my opinion.

What kind of symptoms do milk give you? I suspect milk is giving me issues but I'm not really sure. I have digestive / bloating / face puffiness, and I often feel very tired after eating, especially earlier in the day.

Milk seems to make me retain water like crazy, and gives me dandruff that can't be cured even with very high dose vitamin A. Also I notice a drop in libido when I drink it. I only use to drink between 8-12 cups 1% per day with no other dairy. I'm in a pickle when it comes to milk because it's my favorite food but I'm not so sure American cows are producing safe milk. I just don't understand why its making me gain so much weight... Honestly I don't know.. I'm very angry about the whole subject.

Yeah I imagine it wouldn't be easy doing this without milk - I guess I should try it. Have you tried goat milk? How do you do with cheeses?

I'm not a huge fan of cheese, its nutrient content is garbage compared to milk. I would try goats milk but its typically pretty expensive where I live compared to cows milk. I'm going to try a few more things to see if I can't make cows milk work better for me.

Interesting, I do notice milk isn't as satisfying as cheese, and cheese is too fatty, I can't eat that much of it. Why is it so much worse than milk though?

I don't think it's worse than milk, I just think it has less b vitamins than milk, and way less potassium. The whey in the milk helps to boost glutathionine levels too, I'm not so sure of the pure casein in cheese. If you have a large supermarket where you live you can usually find some low fat cheese. I found a specific mozzarella not to long ago for my wife that only had 2.5 grams of fat per ounce, which is the same as 1 cup of 1% milk

 

[Zachs]

High carb vegan diet is pretty optimal. If they could reconcile with eating a bit of dairy, eggs and bivalves, it's be perfect.

The biggest things that are in favor of that way of eating are the avoidance of pufa, iron, tryptophan and methionine. Imo the 4 biggest issues in most people's diets. Low protein is a problem but overall if calories are kept high from quality starch and sugar sources, one can thrive on a hcv diet.

Btw b12 is created in the gut along with many other vitamins, it's not imperative to get b12 from food sources, it depends on the person.

I also disagree that starch has high amounts of anti nutrients or toxins or whatever, it just isn't an issue for most. I believe PUFA and to a lesser degree, iron and inflammatory aminos are the major factor in all ailments. Eliminate them and one can eat basically any food.