Here's how to see if you're hypothyroid and how to fix it

[golder]

When RP was hypothyroid he drank 30- 50 cups of coffee a day

This would give me insane adrenaline issues. Do you know if he used anything to counter the adrenaline that 50 cups of coffee would cause?

 

[Apple]

This would give me insane adrenaline issues. Do you know if he used anything to counter the adrenaline that 50 cups of coffee would cause?

He only said he drank coffee with cream

 

[Hans]

I was just commenting that all of the symptoms you listed, except one, indicate I'm not hypo. So that indicates to me that pulse rate is not necessarily an indication of hypo. It could be, and maybe is a lot, but apparently not with me.

Ah ok, I just wasn't sure that's why I asked. @yerrag made a similar observation IIRC and mentioned that perfusion index might be a better measure since it takes into account people that are fit.

 

[RealNeat]

None of those symptoms apply to me except heart rate, which for me is in the low to mid 50s at rest. I think that's a symptom of being fit and not being uptight.

Or as Ray says a bigger heart.

 

[RealNeat]

Thanks man! From what I've seen, studies using 8-9g aspirin only use that dose for 1-2 months. I think they stopped because of the duration of the study and not necessarily because it caused problems. Everyone will have a different dose that they can tolerate. Tinnitus is a common one, but it can go away with use. Stomach pains are another one. Mixing the aspirin in bicarb and vitamin C can help to make it easier on the gut.

Interesting, the vitamin c is a new one for me, I use bicarb and gelatin, what does the vitamin c do?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Or as Ray says a bigger heart.

That makes sense. Lesser pump rate needed to move same volume

 

[Xisca]

Thiamine and Thyroid: 3 Hidden Thyroid Benefits You Don’t Want to Miss

Learn the how thiamine can help restore your metabolism and protect your thyroid with these 3 hidden thiamine and thyroid benefits.

www.forefronthealth.com

 

[yerrag]

Ah ok, I just wasn't sure that's why I asked. @yerrag made a similar observation IIRC and mentioned that perfusion index might be a better measure since it takes into account people that are fit.

Thanks Hans. I was hoping that I could learn more about the use of the perfusion index as a valid marker, but I cannot find references at all that even broach the subject. What I'm going to say in the following sentences, I should warn, is just based on my personal observation on just one subject - myself. I want to start by saying that I haven't heard Ray Peat mention heart rate as a metric to determine whether one is or isn't hypothyroid. Ray has been critical of the way the typical thyroid panel of TSH, T4, and T3 are used in hospitals, in that they often give false negatives for hypothyroid, and he has talked of Broda Barnes' method of using the Achilles Tendon Reflex as a good method. He has mentioned the use of the QTc value in an ECG as a basis. But he has not given us any indication that heart rate can be a basis for determining hypothyroid. He has however talked about the use of heart rate as a gauge of metabolic rate. He has not qualified it in any way, afaik.

This has led me to question the unqualified use of heart rate as a gauge for metabolic rate. For how can heart rate be a basis when there are many unhealthy people with very high heart rates. Just think about the people with very acidic acid-base balance, where intracellular potassium is exchanged with serum hydrogen ions in order to lower the acidity of blood, leading to high serum potassium. This causes the heart rate to jump to a rate exceeing 100 bpm because the heart cannot pump efficiently because as a muscle, the contraction and relaxation of the heart cannot be done efficietly. In such a case, you would feel the pulse as very rapid, but very weak.

This for me is the reason why heart rate can't be used to gauge metabolic rate. One can't say at all that the higher the heart rate, the higher the metabolic rate. And it made me ask that if the heart rate can't be used as a basis, can pulse strength be used? When I would go to a TCM doctor, he would always feel the pulse. It involves some analog process where he feels the pulse and determines the state of the patient. He doesn't just rely on the heart rate, but he also considers the pulse strength (but he looks also at other metrics such as whether the pulse strength is always strong or weak, or if it fluctuates).

Since I am no TCM doctor, I could not develop the skill to read pulse overnight, but would wonder whether there is a metric for measuring pulse strength. Last last year, oximeters started coming out that would also measure the perfusion index, and it seemed to me that maybe the perfusion index could be used as a metric for pulse strength. It is defined as the percentage of pulsatile flow of blood over the the non-pulsatile flow of blood, with the range being from 0 to 20%, When it's zero, the person is dead, and when it is below 0.2 %, the spO2 values measured cannot be relied upon. I wonder if there's more use for this metric other than this, so I began to use it on myself.

Given that a sample size of one is so imperfect, and that my condition has not really improved by leaps and bounds (I have high bp, and it's due to a persistent bacterial colonization (aka low-level infection) in the form of biofilms mixed in with plaque throughout the vascular system) I have no basis to compare my perfusion index from a previous state of poor health to an improved state of health.

The little that I observe though gives me hope. I notice that when the bacterial infection is subdued, I can get a higher value in the PI while my heart rate goes lower. It just seems to indicate that, at least for me, it's a good sign when my heart rate is lower and my PI is higher, as it correlates with both a lower level of bacterial infection, a lower state of mobililization of my immune system to fight the infection, and a lower level of resultant oxidative stress from spillover ROS of phagocytosis, and the lesser need to use the antioxidant stores. So there is less energy directed towards the "defense" of the body, and more towards "offense." With more energy available for "offense," there is a stronger heart beat that equates to a more efficient pumping action by the heart muscle, which translates to a lower heart rate. In this condition, I would expect to see the PI (perfusion index) to go higher from the usual 8% to 15%.

But that remains to be validated by a larger group sample size. It would be nice if we could get forum members to form a temporary group to validate this observation, but it takes effort to get one going.

 

[Hans]

Interesting, the vitamin c is a new one for me, I use bicarb and gelatin, what does the vitamin c do?

It's just good for the gut. There are some people the tolerate their aspirin better when they take it with some vitamin C or OJ or something like that.

 

[Hans]

Thanks Hans. I was hoping that I could learn more about the use of the perfusion index as a valid marker, but I cannot find references at all that even broach the subject. What I'm going to say in the following sentences, I should warn, is just based on my personal observation on just one subject - myself. I want to start by saying that I haven't heard Ray Peat mention heart rate as a metric to determine whether one is or isn't hypothyroid. Ray has been critical of the way the typical thyroid panel of TSH, T4, and T3 are used in hospitals, in that they often give false negatives for hypothyroid, and he has talked of Broda Barnes' method of using the Achilles Tendon Reflex as a good method. He has mentioned the use of the QTc value in an ECG as a basis. But he has not given us any indication that heart rate can be a basis for determining hypothyroid. He has however talked about the use of heart rate as a gauge of metabolic rate. He has not qualified it in any way, afaik.

This has led me to question the unqualified use of heart rate as a gauge for metabolic rate. For how can heart rate be a basis when there are many unhealthy people with very high heart rates. Just think about the people with very acidic acid-base balance, where intracellular potassium is exchanged with serum hydrogen ions in order to lower the acidity of blood, leading to high serum potassium. This causes the heart rate to jump to a rate exceeing 100 bpm because the heart cannot pump efficiently because as a muscle, the contraction and relaxation of the heart cannot be done efficietly. In such a case, you would feel the pulse as very rapid, but very weak.

This for me is the reason why heart rate can't be used to gauge metabolic rate. One can't say at all that the higher the heart rate, the higher the metabolic rate. And it made me ask that if the heart rate can't be used as a basis, can pulse strength be used? When I would go to a TCM doctor, he would always feel the pulse. It involves some analog process where he feels the pulse and determines the state of the patient. He doesn't just rely on the heart rate, but he also considers the pulse strength (but he looks also at other metrics such as whether the pulse strength is always strong or weak, or if it fluctuates).

Since I am no TCM doctor, I could not develop the skill to read pulse overnight, but would wonder whether there is a metric for measuring pulse strength. Last last year, oximeters started coming out that would also measure the perfusion index, and it seemed to me that maybe the perfusion index could be used as a metric for pulse strength. It is defined as the percentage of pulsatile flow of blood over the the non-pulsatile flow of blood, with the range being from 0 to 20%, When it's zero, the person is dead, and when it is below 0.2 %, the spO2 values measured cannot be relied upon. I wonder if there's more use for this metric other than this, so I began to use it on myself.

Given that a sample size of one is so imperfect, and that my condition has not really improved by leaps and bounds (I have high bp, and it's due to a persistent bacterial colonization (aka low-level infection) in the form of biofilms mixed in with plaque throughout the vascular system) I have no basis to compare my perfusion index from a previous state of poor health to an improved state of health.

The little that I observe though gives me hope. I notice that when the bacterial infection is subdued, I can get a higher value in the PI while my heart rate goes lower. It just seems to indicate that, at least for me, it's a good sign when my heart rate is lower and my PI is higher, as it correlates with both a lower level of bacterial infection, a lower state of mobililization of my immune system to fight the infection, and a lower level of resultant oxidative stress from spillover ROS of phagocytosis, and the lesser need to use the antioxidant stores. So there is less energy directed towards the "defense" of the body, and more towards "offense." With more energy available for "offense," there is a stronger heart beat that equates to a more efficient pumping action by the heart muscle, which translates to a lower heart rate. In this condition, I would expect to see the PI (perfusion index) to go higher from the usual 8% to 15%.

But that remains to be validated by a larger group sample size. It would be nice if we could get forum members to form a temporary group to validate this observation, but it takes effort to get one going.

Very good.
The main reason why I added heart rate to the list is because heart rate usually goes up when someone uses thyroid. Someone can typically see that they are causing a slight state of hyperthyroidism when their heart rate is 90-100+. Also, people that are very fit and have a heart rate of 30-40, will see an increase when they use thyroid. But other than that, heart rate is probably not the best measure.
It would be interesting to see more data on PI though.

 

[Callmestar]

This high Dose Iodine Topic is really driving me nuts . 50% of the reports/studies mentioned dramatic improvements with (super high?) doses Lugols/Iodoral and the others warn not to exceed „low“ doses.

For orientation: how much iodine is consumed by apes or was by our primal foreigners?

Interested to hear more on this. Is there a specific thread you are referring to?

I have had a number of health problems for a few years and many here suggest it could be down to a tanked metabolism/thyroid. Now you mention this, I recall taking Lugols Iodine in high doses a couple of years ago and seeing an improvement in my symptoms but I eventually stopped over the concern about taking so much iodine. Maybe I should try it again.

 

[yerrag]

Very good.
The main reason why I added heart rate to the list is because heart rate usually goes up when someone uses thyroid. Someone can typically see that they are causing a slight state of hyperthyroidism when their heart rate is 90-100+. Also, people that are very fit and have a heart rate of 30-40, will see an increase when they use thyroid. But other than that, heart rate is probably not the best measure.
It would be interesting to see more data on PI though.

I don't disagree with your observation and concluding that thyroid can be helpful in increasing metabolism, and that this will be manifested as increased heart rate.

When new to Ray Peat, I have seen occasional increases in heart rate only to believe wrongly that it means whatever I was taking, be it supplements or food, was increasing my metabolic rate. I now realize that in my case, in has more to do with the heart having to work more to do the same work. I can't be sure, but I get this idea that when the planktonic bacteria is increased (from biofilm breaking down in my vascular plaque, from taking systemic enyzmes or a good vitamin E blend, and the biofilm releasing bacteria into the blood stream), my PI decreases and my heart rate increases. This gives me good reason to think that the immune system fighting bacteria is an energy sink, and this leaves less energy for the body for energy production. And if we take the heart's behavior to be a proxy for the body's metabolic energy production and efficiency, the heart becoming less efficient would result in increased heart rate, it would pump more while not really getting more work done. And if I see that my PI is decreased, I would perhaps know that the increased heart rate is not due to increased metabolic efficiency and output, but lower metabolic efficiency - due to the bacterial infection draining away resources from energy production.

I'd like to add that PI is just one marker that could be useful, but there are others that I'd like to explore such as HRV. I'm also looking into spO2 sleep graphs now, and recently I began using a Wellue O2Ring in my sleep, and I'm gaining some new insights into it. A lot of these things we can't find references that validate their use, but I don't see that as a hindrance. We don't really need someone affilitated with a well-funded research institution to begin the ball rolling for us. We have our senses and our mind to do our own experiments.

 

[Sefton10]

When new to Ray Peat, I have seen occasional increases in heart rate only to believe wrongly that it means whatever I was taking, be it supplements or food, was increasing my metabolic rate. I now realize that in my case, in has more to do with the heart having to work more to do the same work. I can't be sure, but I get this idea that when the planktonic bacteria is increased (from biofilm breaking down in my vascular plaque, from taking systemic enyzmes of a good vitamin E blend, and the biofilm releasing bacteria into the blood stream), my PI decreases and my heart rate increases. This gives me good reason to think that the immune system fighting bacteria is an energy sink, and this leaves less energy for the body for energy production. And if we take the heart's behavior to be a proxy for the body's metabolic energy production and efficiency, the heart becoming less efficient would result in increased heart rate, it would pump more while not really getting more work done. And if I see that my PI is decreased, I would perhaps know that the increased heart rate is not due to increased metabolic efficiency and output, but lower metabolic efficiency - due to the bacterial infection draining away resources from energy production.

Very interesting perspective.

 

[Kaur Singh]

for some, correcting thyroid function LOWERS their heart rate
(as it brings down the compensatory stress hormones and substances)
Also, it can correct the orthostatic changes in HR and BP in either direction - high or low (a.k.a dysautonomia)

There's a whole lot of variability in how the energetic dysfunction is being dealt with in each individual
how it expresses itself

Which is why interacting with a lot of people and learning from them
is important

 

[FitnessMike]

Aspirin is actually associated with lower pervailence of NAFLD (R), and is currently used in a ongoing study to see if it can help to treat NAFLD.
Burping a rather a symptom of low stomach acid or SIBO. A study found that those who reacted negatively to aspirin had a certain bacteria that caused it.

Does it help if you take digestive enzymes or betaine or something like that?

now i think its just from eating fat and an excessive amount of fruits, after started coffee i thought i might allow myself eat fruits in abundance, i gained a noticeable amount of fat in one week lol, im back to no fruits and a small amount of fat from today. I Might add aspirin from next week.

 

[osar]

@Hans do you use a lot of black cumin, ashwaganha, and gugglesterone?

 

[teds]

@Hans
Thanks for sharing this.
I’ve been curious about black cumin for a while but concerned re PUFA- you mention in the article that there’s an extract you can use instead but it appears that the link is missing- perhaps not available anymore? Let us know if there’s one you e found to be helpful. Thought I’d just check.

 

[TheSir]

None of those symptoms apply to me except heart rate, which for me is in the low to mid 50s at rest. I think that's a symptom of being fit and not being uptight.

Heart rate is known to inversely correlate with one's level of health. In absence of other hypothyroid symptoms it's nearly always a positive thing.

 

[TheSir]

Given that a sample size of one is so imperfect, and that my condition has not really improved by leaps and bounds (I have high bp, and it's due to a persistent bacterial colonization (aka low-level infection) in the form of biofilms mixed in with plaque throughout the vascular system) I have no basis to compare my perfusion index from a previous state of poor health to an improved state of health.

The little that I observe though gives me hope. I notice that when the bacterial infection is subdued, I can get a higher value in the PI while my heart rate goes lower. It just seems to indicate that, at least for me, it's a good sign when my heart rate is lower and my PI is higher, as it correlates with both a lower level of bacterial infection, a lower state of mobililization of my immune system to fight the infection, and a lower level of resultant oxidative stress from spillover ROS of phagocytosis, and the lesser need to use the antioxidant stores. So there is less energy directed towards the "defense" of the body, and more towards "offense." With more energy available for "offense," there is a stronger heart beat that equates to a more efficient pumping action by the heart muscle, which translates to a lower heart rate. In this condition, I would expect to see the PI (perfusion index) to go higher from the usual 8% to 15%.

But that remains to be validated by a larger group sample size. It would be nice if we could get forum members to form a temporary group to validate this observation, but it takes effort to get one going.

I've been tracking PI casually if you're interested. The first thing I noticed was that the better I feel the higher the number is going to be. Warmth of hands/fingers correlates with it too. During bouts of cold handed anxiety PI has fallen all the way down to 1, sometimes even below. Currently sitting at 9.1 with 65 bpm and pretty warm extremities. Will gladly track it during any specific circumstances you ask me to.

 

[yerrag]

I've been tracking PI casually if you're interested. The first thing I noticed was that the better I feel the higher the number is going to be. Warmth of hands/fingers correlates with it too. During bouts of cold handed anxiety PI has fallen all the way down to 1, sometimes even below. Currently sitting at 9.1 with 65 bpm and pretty warm extremities. Will gladly track it during any specific circumstances you ask me to.

Great!

Let's get in touch via PM. We'll just start throwing ideas off each other first.