How To Cure Insulin Resistance Ray Peat-way?

[Strongbad]

It becomes more and more apparent to me that my hypothyroid issues don't come from the thyroid, but more from liver / pancreas aka. insulin resistance. I've been experiencing these since I started Peating 10 months ago:

1) Massive discomfort or pain on my lower right abdomen, especially when sitting down for a while. It's irrelevant whether I'm stressed out or not, then pain always show up. When I stand up, though, the pain kinda disappears.
2) Much lower tolerance to alcohol and experiencing massive hypoglycemia whenever I consume alcohol on weekends regardless on the amount.
3) Super accelerated hair thinning / loss. My prolactin is fairly low/normal 7.9 ng/mL so it must be due to high Cortisol. Haidut said that high cortisol can be caused by insulin resistance.

None of those issues happened when I low carbed for few years, only when I started Peating those issues showed up.

I understand that there are supplements / ways to reduce excess adrenaline or cortisol like Cascara, relora, theanine, vitamin A, B6, zinc, DHEA etc. But those are only quick fixes/patches to reduce the symptoms, while the core problem stay unfixed. The insulin resistance is still there, the liver is f**ked, the pancreas might be f**ed. Obviously the food has to go through liver and pancreas before going to thyroid, so it's important to fix those 2 things first before seeing the benefits to thyroid functions.

So the question is: how do you cure insulin resistance, Ray Peat-way? How do you heal the liver and pancreas so that they function normally just the ways they're supposed to?

1) What food to eat and avoid?
2) What supplements to take to help fixing these issues? Not the quick fixes one that only treat the symptoms (high cortisol and adrenaline), but the ones that really go after the liver/insulin resistance causes and fix them straight up.

BTW I'm already on very high-carb/low-fat diet. Tomorrow marks my 2nd month of the diet and will continue for at least 4 more months.

 

[DaveFoster]

1) Eat fruit and dairy. Avoid PUFA and starch.
2) Biotin; niacinamide; thiamine, and caffeine. Possibly magnesium and pregnenolone.

 

[Brian]

Intracellular magnesium is one of the fundamental things to get right:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319146

After that I would think building up thiamin stores would multiply the effects of adequate magnesium.

Definitely not a quick fix. Chronically high blood levels of K2 and adequate sodium seem to help a lot by getting calcium out of the way.

The high dose aspirin and niacinamide method of restricting fatty acids is often recommended here, but I wonder if that isn't counterproductive or even unnecessary if one focuses on intracellular magnesium instead or at least until it is restored to a decent level.

Do you feel warm after a meal? How much fluid/sodium are you taking in?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

What is your age, height, weight, and gender?

 

[Strongbad]

Yes, it's not a quick fix, but at least I need to take that route to faster healing :)

I'm 35, 5-9, 182lbs (192lbs 2 months ago), male.

Yes, I feel warm after meal, since it's heavy in baked russet potatoes sprinkled with salt. Whenever I drink orange juice and milk is when my right hand and foot feel cold.

My daily current food:
- sugar
- raw honey
- russet potatoes. Lots of them. Boiled in about 45 minutes to 1 hour. sprinkled with lots of canning salt
- orange juice (drink occasionally now, since most carb i consume now is potatoes)
- coffee mixed with fat-free milk and lots of sugar, twice per day
- handful of small shrimps
- 7 small canned oysters (salt water based, not the sunflower oil ones)
- raw carrots between meals
- fat free greek yogurt
- fermented cocoa, twice per week

Supplements (most of them are taken once every 2 days):
- Vit E
- Vit K2
- Vit D (only if it's cloudy outside)
- Taurine
- Cascara sagrada
- Activated charcoal
- Relora
- Magnesium.
- Zinc
- Vit B6
- Vit B12

The only supplement that seem to work well in reducing in right abdominal pain / discomfort is activated charcoal. But it causes massive constipation, especially when consumed in high doses like 30g to 50g in a day. I have to take 5 capsules of cascara just to help bowel movement on that scenario.

 

[Brian]

I relied on potatoes for my main carb for over a year. Eventually I started feeling cold quite often. I think I had become chronically low in sodium and even heavily salting my potato meals couldn't balance how much potassium I was ingesting, because I was starting from such a deficit.

Since cutting potatoes out in favor of salted refined flour products I have warmed up and felt more energy. I don't know if that's your case, but for me it seemed I needed to build up my sodium levels and tone down the potassium for awhile.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

If you were 5'9" and 192 lbs. just two months ago then that's one of the issues because that put you right at the obese range. But still at 5'9" 182 lbs. you have excess adipose tissue. That's whats causing problems. That's metabolic syndrome. You just have to stick the course until you burn off all excess fat. You should be around 150-160 lbs. Your diet looks fine, I'd just add cooked greens like kale, collards, mustard greens for extra magnesium and minerals and calcium. Maybe some quality eggs yolks for some retinol. Cascara should only be used occasionally, not every two days or even every month. You've lost 5 pounds a month for two months which shows you that it works. You may feel bad sometimes because of toxins released from your fat tissue but you just have to stick it out. B12 doesn't need to be taken every 2 days either. You should cut your alcohol intake. It's going to stress your liver. If you're not a type 1 diabetic then your pancreas is fine. You are only insulin resistant if you have blood sugar problems to the point of almost passing out (hypoglycemia) or extreme brain fog/confusion (hyperglycemia). If you don't have that then you're not insulin resistant. You should have bowel moments every day. If you're not then that could be whats causing the abdominal pain. If you were 5'9" and 192 lbs. just two months ago then it shows that you weren't eating great for a long time because to get to that weight takes not eating the best foods. You have to be patient to undo the damage you've done. Cut the alcohol and late nights. Get fasting blood work done soon to see liver function. Build endurance and maintain bone density by doing light exercise like walking and light weight training.

 

[Orion]

I have similar questions, from what I gather going through lots of posts, caffeine and k2 are supposed to help heal the liver. Being able to take larger doses of caffeine with no stress response, shows that the liver is functioning well and has good glycogen storage.

What is your response to 50mg or 100mg or 200mg of caffeine? I am slowly getting getting my caffeine intake up. I get a big stress response at 250mg, but should I just let this stress response happen and keep pressing forward. Cypro, theanine and B6 don't seem to help much for me.

A protocol may be to start with 50mg caffeine 3 times a day, when there is no stress response add another 50mg to each dose, keep going until you can handle close to the 1gram per day (uncoupling dose). How long has this taken most people? I have been trying to push it faster, just wondering if the stress response is worth it...

 

[Strongbad]

I agree that 150-160lbs is the ideal weight. When I was on low-carb, I was 160lbs, ripped and in the best shape ever. The problem with low-carb though is low energy and gradual hair loss. So on February (this year, 2015) I turned to Peating, ate Peatish food, avoided PUFA etc.

By the end of September I was 192lbs. So I gained 32lbs within 7 months of Peating. Those 3 insulin issues showed up a lot and severely within that 7 months. Accelerated hair loss, abdominal pain etc.

My goal is to go back to to 160lbs again, but this time via high-metabolism route not low-carb. I notice that older native Japanese/Koreans are very lean and having great metabolism. Their hair is still full, not greying quickly even in their 50s. Hair loss only start to occur to them at very old age, like mid 60s and older.

How to cook vegetables properly, removing the estrogen while retaining all the nutrient? Hard boil it for 10 minutes? Low boil it for 20 min?

I'll add theamine and biotin for supplements. I don't have caffeine as supplement so I wouldn't know. But I've been consuming coffee since February but it's not fixing the insulin resistance issue at all.

 

[DaveFoster]

I've been consuming coffee since February but it's not fixing the insulin resistance issue at all.

You should take niacinamide with caffeine to prevent the FFA release. FFA release predisposes one to insulin resistance.

 

[XPlus]

Niacinamide is about one of the most sensible suggestions I've seen here.

Insulin resistance is a problem of chronically elevated stress hormones not the adipose tissue. The extra fat layers can be thought of as independent from insulin resistance if stress doesn't constantly release their fat into the bloodstream (i.e. time limit not the size of fat tissue is the main playing factor in their release, since even leanest people have at least 10-15% body fat).

There are few components to sugar ustilisation. Insulin production, dietary potassium, B vitamins, meal combination and timing are few I can think of.

I'll be especially wary of PUFA.
I'd minimise the fibre, starch and fermented food to give a chance for the digestive system (including the liver) to heal.
A low fat diet to stop FFA interference with sugar metabolism.
Constant feedings with small portions of sugar and protein to keep the blood sugar in balance.
Balance starch with fructose (i.e. fructose poweder, apple juice) and little coconut oil to slow digestion.
A diet that is slightly skewed towards fructose will mitigate insulin requirements.
So having more fruit juices makes some sense.
Also, I'd try not to push a lot towards a "Peat Diet" for now and maybe pay more attention to how different kinds and combinations of food makes you feel.

I've seen Ray also mention Aspirin, gelatin and Brewers yeast to help with insulin resistance.

Brewers' yeast has been used traditionally to correct diabetes, and its high content of niacin and other B vitamins and potassium might account for its beneficial effects. However, eating a large quantity of it is likely to cause gas, so some people prefer to extract the soluble nutrients with hot water. Yeast contains a considerable amount of estrogen, and the water extract probably leaves much of that in the insoluble starchy residue. Liver is another rich source of the B vitamins as well as the oily vitamins, but it can suppress thyroid function, so usually one meal a week is enough.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think the problem is fatty liver.

Are you taking your basal temperature? You may need thyroid. If your basal temp is low, and your HR is low, you may need the thyroid. It could be temporary but it may be required to get rid of the fatty liver.

The basic idea of Peat for diabetics I believe is sugar and protein and low fat. This reduces stress hormones and lets the body consume its own fat, hopefully fat around your pancreas and liver. It's all about getting the sugar metabolism fired up again. Now your body is burning fats.

Aspirin and niacinamide and caffeine are helpful in jump starting sugar metabolism, but thyroid hormone may be needed.

And some people seem to do better with starch and protein and low fat, rather than sugar. But sugar is preferred if it agrees with you (honey, fruit juice, fruit, to the greatest extent possible, not table sugar necessarily.)

 

[tara]

I assume the insulin resistance may have been caused by the low carb period when you trained your system for running on other fuel and sparing sugars/carbs.

I second the suggestions above to try some greens or broth for minerals, a little niacinamide (eg 50-100mg at a time at least twice a day) and other B-vits, brewers' yeast (hot water extract), vit-K2, a little coconut oil, some sugars as well as starches (but probably not more sugars than tastes good to you), continuing the low fat and very low PUFA and continuing coffee at whatever level works for you without being stressful, avoid alcohol specifically as a liver burden, attending to meal timing and other sources of excessive stress (to help limit cortisol and FFAs), get regular sunlight, sleep, movement, ....

And monitor the effects - no blind following anyone else's suggestions if they don't seem to be working/tasting good.

I'd caution that taking a lot of activated charcoal every other day is likely to be stealing a lot of your food and supplement nutrition. I guess topical supplementation would reduce this. Unless the benefits are overwhelming, I'd recommend spacing it out a bit more, and using other tactics in between. If it's causing you more constipation than you can easily address, maybe reduce the quantity, too.

 

[NathanK]

According to my DEXA scan I took 2 years ago if I were nothing but muscle, tissue, and bones, I'd weight 165lbs. I'm almost 5'10. I've pretty much done everything mentioned here. Looking forward to my next labs to see how my body's responded. Just Peating alone without all the supps were pretty massive on mood and labs already.

Supps in addition to my "low aggitation" food intake:
1 B complex and B2 vitamin 1x/day (B2 is more for my increased metabolism especially with lights)
B1, B3, Biotin a few times a day about 5 days of the week
1 aspirin about 5x/week
Bicarb water
Fat soluables about 4-5x week
~400mg caffeine/day on average
every once in a while I do 5 drops of MB in my coffee/juice

One thing I have wondered as of late is if it's possible to have any FFA rebound from taking aspirin, niacinamide, and biotin like there is with niacin. Anybody know?

 

[Giraffe]

post 113046 There are few components to sugar ustilisation. Insulin production, dietary potassium, B vitamins, meal combination and timing are few I can think of.

I'll be especially wary of PUFA.
I'd minimise the fibre, starch and fermented food to give a chance for the digestive system (including the liver) to heal.
A low fat diet to stop FFA interference with sugar metabolism.
Constant feedings with small portions of sugar and protein to keep the blood sugar in balance.
Balance starch with fructose (i.e. fructose poweder, apple juice) and little coconut oil to slow digestion.
A diet that is slightly skewed towards fructose will mitigate insulin requirements.
So having more fruit juices makes some sense.
Also, I'd try not to push a lot towards a "Peat Diet" for now and maybe pay more attention to how different kinds and combinations of food makes you feel.

... plus I would see that I always have carbs, protein and a little saturated fat together. Regarding B-vitamins I would specifically look into B1 and niacinamide.

If you don't have issues with gelatin you might want to try XPlus' recipe (link below). It looks like a good source of potassium and magnesium. I would probably snack a little of it with each meal.

Gelatin Series 01: Magnesium Gelatin Pudding

I need to try the recipe myself.

 

[Pet Peeve]

I had the same problems and I managed to solve them. I had the same thoughts about what it might be and I think it might have been as others have suggested, fatty liver and/or sparing sugar through burning fat. Btw, my blood sugar was never out of normal range and it was just before I found peat. Here's what I did:

1. I took supplemental lecithin but stopped after a week or two because my jaw muscles were starting to get tighter, due to acetylcholine I guess.
2. When I stopped lecithin I started to take chromium with biotin (2500 mcg) or I took 300 to 600 mg ALA. I had to do this several times a day. Some times if I was out and I started to feel that I needed a "dose" I would get a physical anxiety that was comparable to being threatened with a knife or something. I continued to take this until it started to give me sugar crashes. Then I dropped it.
3. Right at that point I started the high sugar peat diet.
4. I did not drink any alcohol for two months. Before when I drank my body temperature would plummet immediately. Now I'm able to drink, feel normal and my body temperature stays up for maybe 4-5 hours before everything crashes. So, I'm not cured 100% but almost.

 

[ejalrp]

There are several studies that concluded aspirin had no effect on type 2 diabetes so I'm wondering what one is to make of these results in light of the fact that on a recent show Haidut (nothing personal) stated that aspirin can stop diabetes. For instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3641436/

 

[halken]

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9061

 

[nikotrope]

I fully agree with Brian.

Salt clears my stuffy nose and normalize my bowel movements quickly at high dose (15g/day). haidut posted a study showing you lose magnesium if sodium intake is less than 63mg/kg, so supplementing sodium in addition to magnesium may be very useful. Caffeine and K2 are very good to clean the liver among other things.

I never got much effect from other supplements.

 

[michael94]

post 117720 I fully agree with Brian.

Salt clears my stuffy nose and normalize my bowel movements quickly at high dose (15g/day). haidut posted a study showing you lose magnesium if sodium intake is less than 63mg/kg, so supplementing sodium in addition to magnesium may be very useful. Caffeine and K2 are very good to clean the liver among other things.

I never got much effect from other supplements.

I do as well

fwiw, brian and kineticz have provided the most valuable information for quick metabolic recovery (imo) but YMMV. I'd recommend folks not making much progress to read through their posts.