Gut-Thyroid Connection: How To Fix Your Thyroid Through Your Gut

[Hans]

My thoughts: I really do think you have got this backwards. Without good thyroid function you can't heal your body, including your gut. Having lived with leaky gut and being allergic to pretty much everything, I can honestly report that my gut problems did not go away until I got my thyroid medication optimized; the long time (15 years) dose was doubled to 3 grains, or 180 mg of natural desiccated thyroid, that includes T3.

If your thyroid isn't working, you need to address it with a thyroid supplementation that includes T3.

I do not understand your aversion to thyroid supplementation, but I do understand that it is a very common position of the medical industrial complex.

Thyroid function is damaged by diet, by polyunsaturated fats mainly. Diet is extremely important. But you seem to be anti-milk and pro-meat which results in unhealthy calcium/phosphate issues. I have had very good results by following Ray Peat's diet suggestions; I'm going to stick with what works for me.

I know of many people that are on 3 grains or higher that are not improving. Just upping the dose just doesn't work if there are things that are blocking proper thyroid function.
Nowhere did I say I don't like thyroid or had an aversion to it. I actually said that it can be very helpful, and I actually do recommend it to some of my clients.
Fixing health is rarely one-directional. It has to be addressed for multiple angles.

And why do you get the idea I'm anti-milk? I drink 3L of milk daily and almost always recommend others to consume dairy if they can tolerate it. I've just found that other active people do better when they also have meat in their diet.

Lastly, my goal with my blogs is to bring awareness, not tell people to do this and that. If you're already doing something that works for you, then don't change it by all means.

 

[Elize]

[QUOTE="Lucas, post: 561043, member


I have issues with Lactose and corn. Both are in Synthroid. I like you react to NDT and T3 and tolerate minute doses only. Due to Histamine and oxalates and histamine liberating ingredients in Tirosint-Sol and be Tirosint Gelcap I am have no option to stay on to Synthroid I tried Life Giving Store NDT but still have a histamine liberating reaction.. Itching dizziness and red eyes.

 

[gaze]

Can gut inflamation produce chronic dehydration?
I feel that i'm not never well hydrated.

I had/have this problem, proved by blood tests. Despite drinking a lot of milk, OJ, even water when I got desperate, still dehydrated (and I wasn't even thirsty when I was drinking the liquids). Salt didn't help either. I think it has to do with elevated TSH (which is chronically inflammatory), and imbalances in vitamin A, calcium, and vitamin D. These 4 are very hard to figure out, but ultimately if you cant digest calcium or something is blocking its utilization, either an excess A or A deficiency, poor quality milk (possibly reaction to the supplements), low vitamin D, whatever it may be, causes a chronic inflammatory feeling without cellular hydration. Have you checked your Vitamin D?

 

[gaze]

Could be a B1 deficiency. Cascara sagrada can be helpful. Also making sure to get some walking in during the day.

If I may ask, what does your diet look like nowadays to ensure easy digestion along with adequate b1?

 

[Elize]

Cascara sagrada is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when used long-term. Don't use cascara sagrada for longer than one or two weeks. Long-term use can cause more serious side effects including dehydration; low levels of potassium, sodium, chloride, and other “electrolytes” in the blood; heart problems; muscle weakness; and others.

WebMD › ingredientmono-773 › ca...
Cascara Sagrada: Uses, Side

I really react to cascara

I think we are better off using as few supplements and prescription medication as possible. They all trigger something else.

 

[Broken man]

Hi @Broken man, are you referring to Low-dose naltrexone (LDN)? how would you get this? any reliable online sources that require no prescription?

Yes, I bought it on ebay but Its no more there. If you want know, join some fb group s, they will tell you.

 

[Broken man]

I missed your post when you posted it. It's been proven that things like gluten and lectins can cause leaky gut. Other things that cause an immune response can also contribute to leaky gut.
Enhancing detoxification pathways will only take you so far, because gut inflammation also damages the liver. So reducing gut inflammation will also improve liver function, as of other organs.

Ye but gluten do this because the way Its harvested today..... Dont know much about lectins. What I want to say is that there is dogma about "bad food" causing leaky gut but bad food doesnt exist..... There are people which do good on fast food, the "leaky Gut" come ONLY when this people will be under alot of stress for prolonged period of time. I also found web that states that endotoxin is not dangerous, only when your gut is leaky. Leaky gut often comes when the toxins from bowel can't be excreted and bacteria feeds on it.

 

[Hans]

Ye but gluten do this because the way Its harvested today..... Dont know much about lectins. What I want to say is that there is dogma about "bad food" causing leaky gut but bad food doesnt exist..... There are people which do good on fast food, the "leaky Gut" come ONLY when this people will be under alot of stress for prolonged period of time. I also found web that states that endotoxin is not dangerous, only when your gut is leaky. Leaky gut often comes when the toxins from bowel can't be excreted and bacteria feeds on it.

Agreed. Chronic stress and nutritional deficiencies can easily lead to leaky gut, but not everyone gets leaky gut, or at least are aware that they do. Some people experience no gut issues, yet have health issues, and once they fix their gut, their health issue goes away.

Last thing. About the endotoxins...you have to be more clear. No all endotoxins are the same, they vary a lot based on the bacteria that create them. Some have very low inflammatory potential whereas other are much more inflammatory. There is a study that shows that infants that had higher E. Coli (which produces more inflammatory endotoxins) were protected from autoimmune conditions later on in life. This is because the endotoxins created endotoxin tolerance. However, prolonged endotoxin tolerance increases the risk of getting infections. Plus, endotoxins are absorbed through the lymphic system so they can enter the body even if the gut lining is perfectly fine. You still want a balanced gut microbiota as an excess of some creates much more inflammatory endotoxins than others or can lead to gut inflammation regardless of endotoxin production.
Finally, the TLR family recognizes much more than just endotoxins. For example, the TLR9 recognizes bacterial DNA and can induce inflammation to get rid of the excess bacteria.

 

[Vileplume]

Maybe you can dehydrate/concentrate the milk a little and see if that helps. Or try yogurt or cheese.

As always, thanks for the help man! Appreciate you responding so thoroughly to everyone’s responses.

 

[Hans]

As always, thanks for the help man! Appreciate you responding so thoroughly to everyone’s responses.

It's my pleasure man.

 

[mostlylurking]

I know of many people that are on 3 grains or higher that are not improving. Just upping the dose just doesn't work if there are things that are blocking proper thyroid function.
Nowhere did I say I don't like thyroid or had an aversion to it. I actually said that it can be very helpful, and I actually do recommend it to some of my clients.
Fixing health is rarely one-directional. It has to be addressed for multiple angles.

And why do you get the idea I'm anti-milk? I drink 3L of milk daily and almost always recommend others to consume dairy if they can tolerate it. I've just found that other active people do better when they also have meat in their diet.

Lastly, my goal with my blogs is to bring awareness, not tell people to do this and that. If you're already doing something that works for you, then don't change it by all means.

I think I misinterpreted your line about "you can stop the thyroid med" if you address your gut issues as a negative position towards thyroid supplementation. That wasn't fair of me; I'm sorry!

On the anti-milk thing: I must have mixed up another post with yours. I'm really sorry about that too!! It is possible that the infection that I've been dealing with for months and the antibiotic treatment I was recently on had addled my thinking.

I've read your article again and you really do have some excellent points. I think that I will need to find a way to supplement with zinc because I don't do well eating red meat. It just sits there and doesn't digest and causes constipation. I do eat shrimp and oysters without issue so I think I'm good on the copper.

My personal journey included many years of lousy professional medical advice regarding food allergies/sensitivities where my thyroid function was not included in the equation. I wound up being almost universally sensitive; the last Alcat test results left me with pretty much nothing left to eat. So for me, the thyroid supplementation at the right dosage was the key and saved my life. Gut seems fine now.

I have no idea if this is a good source for information, but I'll include the link here: The 10 Best Foods That Are High in Zinc
It says that shellfish and dairy also are good sources for zinc, so maybe I'm good to go with my zinc already.

 

[golder]

I think I misinterpreted your line about "you can stop the thyroid med" if you address your gut issues as a negative position towards thyroid supplementation. That wasn't fair of me; I'm sorry!

On the anti-milk thing: I must have mixed up another post with yours. I'm really sorry about that too!! It is possible that the infection that I've been dealing with for months and the antibiotic treatment I was recently on had addled my thinking.

I've read your article again and you really do have some excellent points. I think that I will need to find a way to supplement with zinc because I don't do well eating red meat. It just sits there and doesn't digest and causes constipation. I do eat shrimp and oysters without issue so I think I'm good on the copper.

My personal journey included many years of lousy professional medical advice regarding food allergies/sensitivities where my thyroid function was not included in the equation. I wound up being almost universally sensitive; the last Alcat test results left me with pretty much nothing left to eat. So for me, the thyroid supplementation at the right dosage was the key and saved my life. Gut seems fine now.

I have no idea if this is a good source for information, but I'll include the link here: The 10 Best Foods That Are High in Zinc
It says that shellfish and dairy also are good sources for zinc, so maybe I'm good to go with my zinc already.

I know every case is individual, but would you be kind enough to let us know the dosage/brand/timing of thyroid that you found benefit from And cleared your food allergies? Thanks!

 

[mostlylurking]

I know every case is individual, but would you be kind enough to let us know the dosage/brand/timing of thyroid that you found benefit from And cleared your food allergies? Thanks!

My endocrinologist worked with me to optimize my thyroid dosage; this took about 9 months because my body was compensating with high adrenaline. Each time my dose was increased, my body would lower my adrenaline level in response which would lessen the positive benefits of the increased thyroid medication. Then the thyroid medication would be increased again. After about 5 or 6 of these stair steps, my blood pressure normalized at a higher level (for me) which made the endocrinologist happy; he said it was the sign he had been waiting for.

After the optimization process, my dose of thyroid is 180 mg of NP Thyroid by Acella. Prior to Acella, I took 90 mg of Armour. Armour changed their formula spring of 2014 and their product stopped working and I developed rheumatoid arthritis. Switching to the Acella brand saved my life.

It is important to understand that the blood test for thyroid function is not calibrated correctly. Optimized for me means that on the test my T3 is at the very top of the normal range. My TSH reading is not helpful because it is always very very low (.021) , even when I was at my sickest with the rheumatoid arthritis. The 80+ year old endocrinologist had enough experience to ignore it and focus on my symptoms.

I take my thyroid med first thing in the morning.

I think that changing my diet from Paleo to Peaty was a big help regarding my allergies. I tended to be hypoglycemic. I now try to get a quart of orange juice in me each day, along with some sweet fruits like watermelon and oranges and I add sugar to my milk. Hypoglycemia makes you have stronger allergic reactions. Stabilized blood sugar is protective.

I also avoid PUFA like the plague. I try to eat raw carrot salad every day. A healthy gut is really important and I believe that thyroid function needs to be very good in order for the body to have the ability to heal it.

Here is a link to an Herb Doctors show with Ray Peat on Allergies: http://www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com/audio/2016 Allergy Mar 2016.mp3 You may have to download the file to hear the whole thing (right click over the start button). It is also available on YouTube:

I hope this is helpful.

 

[charlie]

If I may ask, what does your diet look like nowadays to ensure easy digestion along with adequate b1?

Plenty of meat, organs and glands. Also as little refined sugar as possible.

 

[Vileplume]

Plenty of meat, organs and glands. Also as little refined sugar as possible.

First day of intentionally trying to minimize refined sugar. I’m eating hella papayas. And I feel.... better. Let’s see how it goes.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Nice article Hans!

I can relate as a crohn's sufferer. I've been mostly symptom and bleeding free for 2.5 years [Peat 1.5 year] but ever since using Cynoplus and Cynomel things started going downhill and I've got my bleeding back. I still don't understand the mechanism behind it.

So I've been using 1/4Cynoplus for 16 days for my ears problem [hearing loss, tinnitus, pressure etc - recommended by Dr.Peat] and after that I've upped my dose to 1/4Cynoplus two times a day. After that I've started getting bleeding in my stool, chest problems/needing to cough/tickling in my chest, dry skin, extremely dry scalp, eczema, diarrhea [almost the same symptoms as when I was using doxycycline months ago].

I've emailed Ray about this and he advised me to use only T3 because he said that my liver could be the problem and couldn't convert the T4 properly. I've been doing that for the past 12 days and I still got the same problems [only the skin is a bit better]. After reducing Cynomel to 1/8 a day some of my symptoms improved and some still linger on [probably until I remove it totally].

So I'm baffled as Ray seem to have all of that science behind him and he never discusses about the side effects of all of these things [in my recent email he actually thinks that dates or apple compote which I eat once every few weeks could be the cause of my problems and not the bloody thyroid.]

Aspirin increases my tinnitus.
Doxy messes my up in every regard as well as the thyroid [Ok, thyroid actually helped my ears to not get clogged and stuffed]
Caffeine increase my tinnitus.

So I guess I just want to hear your thoughts and opinion. I'm eating extremely peaty and clean and still my calprotectin was 260 [1.5 year after peating and before I used the thyroid].

Btw before Peat I was on a "medical medium protocol". So no eggs, no dairy, some meat and all of these raw vegetables and fruits. I was eating all of these raw apples, pears, garlic, dates, raw spinach and kale, drinking celery juice every day, making smoothies for 7 months. And my gut has never felt better and my calprotectin was <20 after those 7 months but I was very skinny and my arthritis was worse and so I found Ray after that... So digestion is a mystery to me.

 

[Hans]

Nice article Hans!

I can relate as a crohn's sufferer. I've been mostly symptom and bleeding free for 2.5 years [Peat 1.5 year] but ever since using Cynoplus and Cynomel things started going downhill and I've got my bleeding back. I still don't understand the mechanism behind it.

So I've been using 1/4Cynoplus for 16 days for my ears problem [hearing loss, tinnitus, pressure etc - recommended by Dr.Peat] and after that I've upped my dose to 1/4Cynoplus two times a day. After that I've started getting bleeding in my stool, chest problems/needing to cough/tickling in my chest, dry skin, extremely dry scalp, eczema, diarrhea [almost the same symptoms as when I was using doxycycline months ago].

I've emailed Ray about this and he advised me to use only T3 because he said that my liver could be the problem and couldn't convert the T4 properly. I've been doing that for the past 12 days and I still got the same problems [only the skin is a bit better]. After reducing Cynomel to 1/8 a day some of my symptoms improved and some still linger on [probably until I remove it totally].

So I'm baffled as Ray seem to have all of that science behind him and he never discusses about the side effects of all of these things [in my recent email he actually thinks that dates or apple compote which I eat once every few weeks could be the cause of my problems and not the bloody thyroid.]

Aspirin increases my tinnitus.
Doxy messes my up in every regard as well as the thyroid [Ok, thyroid actually helped my ears to not get clogged and stuffed]
Caffeine increase my tinnitus.

So I guess I just want to hear your thoughts and opinion. I'm eating extremely peaty and clean and still my calprotectin was 260 [1.5 year after peating and before I used the thyroid].

Btw before Peat I was on a "medical medium protocol". So no eggs, no dairy, some meat and all of these raw vegetables and fruits. I was eating all of these raw apples, pears, garlic, dates, raw spinach and kale, drinking celery juice every day, making smoothies for 7 months. And my gut has never felt better and my calprotectin was <20 after those 7 months but I was very skinny and my arthritis was worse and so I found Ray after that... So digestion is a mystery to me.

Interesting effects with the thyroid. I'm for what works for you, so have you tried a high fruit intake, but with higher easy to digest protein and see if that helps?
Also, skip the thyroid for now and just focus on getting your gut sorted.
I'd do a stool tests with thryve and see which bacteria are high and address that specifically.
Also, in the mean time, avoid anything that causes gut inflammation and then also optimize intestinal energetics with B2 and niacinamide for example.
Do you have fast or slow transit?

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Interesting effects with the thyroid. I'm for what works for you, so have you tried a high fruit intake, but with higher easy to digest protein and see if that helps?
Also, skip the thyroid for now and just focus on getting your gut sorted.
I'd do a stool tests with thryve and see which bacteria are high and address that specifically.
Also, in the mean time, avoid anything that causes gut inflammation and then also optimize intestinal energetics with B2 and niacinamide for example.
Do you have fast or slow transit?

Yeah I usually have very slow transit. When I was on that medical medium protocol I was having bowel movements once or twice a day which was impossible for me I think... ever. Now after thyroid I usually have diarrhea but before that on average once every two days.

Interesting recommendation for that thryve company - I never heard of them. Hopefully they cover Serbia.

 

[Korven]

Nice article Hans!

I can relate as a crohn's sufferer. I've been mostly symptom and bleeding free for 2.5 years [Peat 1.5 year] but ever since using Cynoplus and Cynomel things started going downhill and I've got my bleeding back. I still don't understand the mechanism behind it.

So I've been using 1/4Cynoplus for 16 days for my ears problem [hearing loss, tinnitus, pressure etc - recommended by Dr.Peat] and after that I've upped my dose to 1/4Cynoplus two times a day. After that I've started getting bleeding in my stool, chest problems/needing to cough/tickling in my chest, dry skin, extremely dry scalp, eczema, diarrhea [almost the same symptoms as when I was using doxycycline months ago].

I've emailed Ray about this and he advised me to use only T3 because he said that my liver could be the problem and couldn't convert the T4 properly. I've been doing that for the past 12 days and I still got the same problems [only the skin is a bit better]. After reducing Cynomel to 1/8 a day some of my symptoms improved and some still linger on [probably until I remove it totally].

So I'm baffled as Ray seem to have all of that science behind him and he never discusses about the side effects of all of these things [in my recent email he actually thinks that dates or apple compote which I eat once every few weeks could be the cause of my problems and not the bloody thyroid.]

Aspirin increases my tinnitus.
Doxy messes my up in every regard as well as the thyroid [Ok, thyroid actually helped my ears to not get clogged and stuffed]
Caffeine increase my tinnitus.

So I guess I just want to hear your thoughts and opinion. I'm eating extremely peaty and clean and still my calprotectin was 260 [1.5 year after peating and before I used the thyroid].

Btw before Peat I was on a "medical medium protocol". So no eggs, no dairy, some meat and all of these raw vegetables and fruits. I was eating all of these raw apples, pears, garlic, dates, raw spinach and kale, drinking celery juice every day, making smoothies for 7 months. And my gut has never felt better and my calprotectin was <20 after those 7 months but I was very skinny and my arthritis was worse and so I found Ray after that... So digestion is a mystery to me.

I was also on the MM protocol for a couple of months and ran into similar issues. Really bad arthritis in my knees, got too skinny and just wasn't sustainable.

I think the problem is oxalate poisoning. When you drink 500 ml celery juice every morning and tons of raw fruits and vegetables, you're getting massive amounts of oxalates which can deposit in joints and cause arthritis. It's also terrible for kidney health.

With severe oxalate poisoning you can get tinnitus like you have: Severe Oxalosis With Systemic Manifestations. Another trigger for tinnitus can be salicylates. Peaty foods like OJ and coffee have lots of salicylates, and of course aspirin is literally salicylate in supplement form. So could be a connection there as well.

Just a couple thoughts I had!

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I was also on the MM protocol for a couple of months and ran into similar issues. Really bad arthritis in my knees, got too skinny and just wasn't sustainable.

I think the problem is oxalate poisoning. When you drink 500 ml celery juice every morning and tons of raw fruits and vegetables, you're getting massive amounts of oxalates which can deposit in joints and cause arthritis. It's also terrible for kidney health.

With severe oxalate poisoning you can get tinnitus like you have: Severe Oxalosis With Systemic Manifestations. Another trigger for tinnitus can be salicylates. Peaty foods like OJ and coffee have lots of salicylates, and of course aspirin is literally salicylate in supplement form. So could be a connection there as well.

Just a couple thoughts I had!

Yeah but I've started MM because of my hearing loss and tinnitus :) On some days I've experienced a lot of improvements though. :) I don't think I've got arthritis because of oxalates though since I've had it even before starting MM and I've never eaten a lot of green leaves or celery :)