Diamant - Adamantane Solution For Lab/R&D

[Ogilvie]

...and then I saw this below in the 'Similar Threads' box. Deconflicting TocoVit, Kuinone, And Diamant

 

[Vinero]

@haidut Is Diamant an NMDA antagonist or not? Or was the NMDA antagonism just made up by the pharmaceutical companies to justify giving an anti-cholinergic drug (memantine) to alzheimer patients that were already treated with a pro-cholinergic drug?

Treating alzheimers disease with both a pro-cholinergic and anti-cholinergic is obviously contradictory, so they reasoned to call memantine an NMDA antagonist, instead of an anti-cholinergic. This way they could still treat alzheimers with their (often ineffective) pro-cholinergic drugs and use the so-called NMDA antagonist memantine as additional therapy.

Ray Peat knows that the whole "alzheimers is caused by a choline deficiency" is a flawed theory. Thats why pro-cholinergic drugs don't cure the disease. Anti-cholinergic drugs like memantine do seem to cure alzheimers disease. But ofcourse the pharmaceutical companies can't claim that memantine works by being anti-cholinergic. That would mean that they mistreated alzheimers for years!! That's why they came up with the NMDA antagonism story..
So my question is: is Adamantane really an NMDA antagonist? Or is it just an anti-cholinergic?

 

[haidut]

This is interesting and new to me. One question and one idea come to mind.

Question - why avoid taking quinones and vitamin E too close together in time; what are potential negative side effects?

Idea - a chart that shows which of haidut's supplements can be taken together and which to take separately.

My lab rat uses several items from idealabs and I previously didn't realize that some shouldn't be used together. I've spent quite a bit of time reading this forum over the last two years, but as we all know, there's a lot to absorb. So a chart that helps easily show visually a daily timetable would be helpful.

My general idea - in the am before breakfast, it's safe to use a, b, c, d together. With breakfast, at least two hours later, e, f, g, h. And so on, but in visual chart form, perhaps Venn diagram could work, or perhaps more of a spreadsheet layout. This could be incredibly helpful for many of us who haven't had the time to absorb all of the information in each thread for every idealabs product. Thank you.

Vitamin E is an antioxidant and the quinones are oxidants (generally speaking). So, they tend to cancel out the effects of each other. Peat also mentioned something in regards to their bad interaction so I'll have to find that and post it here. In addition, vitamin E may deplete vitamin K stores if taken in higher doses over a prolonged period.
Noted on the chart/diagram, thanks for suggestion. Most of the products do not interact much with each other so maybe no need for a chart. Just a list that says "avoid X and Y together".

 

[lifestyle]

A close friend has a rat that was taking 35mg adderall per day (15mg XR in the morning, 10mg XR in the afternoon) for approximately 18 months. He decided to take the rat off adderall and begin supplementing with diamant.

His rat abruptly stopped the adderall and started the following adamantane supplementation: 7 drops morning, 6 drops afternoon, 6 drops early evening.

Three days after beginning diamant and stopping adderall, he reports that his rat has no desire to resume taking adderall and is not experiencing any depersonalization or other side effects mentioned in this thread.

 

[haidut]

A close friend has a rat that was taking 35mg adderall per day (15mg XR in the morning, 10mg XR in the afternoon) for approximately 18 months. He decided to take the rat off adderall and begin supplementing with diamant.

His rat abruptly stopped the adderall and started the following adamantane supplementation: 7 drops morning, 6 drops afternoon, 6 drops early evening.

Three days after beginning diamant and stopping adderall, he reports that his rat has no desire to resume taking adderall and is not experiencing any depersonalization or other side effects mentioned in this thread.

Wow, this is just amazing! Any other effects observed as a result of taking adamantane? Mental, digestion, energy/exercise, etc?

 

[mirc12354]

Wow, this is just amazing! Any other effects observed as a result of taking adamantane? Mental, digestion, energy/exercise, etc?

so potentialy this could also help with smoking cessation?

 

[haidut]

so potentialy this could also help with smoking cessation?

Possibly yes, since smoking is craved mostly for its dopaminergic effects.

 

[lifestyle]

Wow, this is just amazing! Any other effects observed as a result of taking adamantane? Mental, digestion, energy/exercise, etc?

It's impossible to tell. The follow changes were all made within a relatively short period of time:

- Stop 35mg/day Adderall XR & start 33mg adamantane on the same day
- Androgen supplementation (multiple compounds)
- Multiple dietary changes
- Various behavioral changes

It would be an exercise in futility to speculate about which effects are directly attributed to adamantane. However, the rat has been off Adderall for 5 days, feels great, and has no desire to begin taking Adderall again. I find this in itself to be quite impressive. One would think there would be some negative symptoms upon stopping 35mg/day Adderall XR after taking it daily for around 18-months. Nope - none at all.

Given adamantane's ability to increase dopamine synthesis while also acting like a dopamine agonist (as per the first post of this thread), it seems likely Diamant played a significant role in facilitating the cessation of Adderall.

 

[haidut]

It's impossible to tell. The follow changes were all made within a relatively short period of time:

- Stop 35mg/day Adderall XR & start 33mg adamantane on the same day
- Androgen supplementation (multiple compounds)
- Multiple dietary changes
- Various behavioral changes

It would be an exercise in futility to speculate about which effects are directly attributed to adamantane. However, the rat has been off Adderall for 5 days, feels great, and has no desire to begin taking Adderall again. I find this in itself to be quite impressive. One would think there would be some negative symptoms upon stopping 35mg/day Adderall XR after taking it daily for around 18-months. Nope - none at all.

Given adamantane's ability to increase dopamine synthesis while also acting like a dopamine agonist (as per the first post of this thread), it seems likely Diamant played a significant role in facilitating the cessation of Adderall.

Wow (again), quite impressive indeed! Thanks again for sharing.

 

[lifestyle]

Wow (again), quite impressive indeed! Thanks again for sharing.

Impressive, but disappointing to me at the same time. It's a shame to see something with so much potential that will likely never see widespread use in my lifetime to due to lack of sufficient profit motive.

Oh well.

 

[mirc12354]

I have been using a product for a week now. I do not feel any strong dopaminergic effects from it, but i do however feel more resilient to stress. Yesterday evening I've had a 4 beers and since I was expecting a hangover this morning I was planning on using Diamant as a cure as few guys here said that it acts as a instant hangover cure. But the funny thing is that I did not have any hangover this morning (I took 6 drops of Diamant orally about 3 hours before drinking). Usually I get a minor hangover even from 2 beers so that was totally unexpected. i also feel a slight increase in energy. But the alcochol clearance part totally blew me away. No need for Cardenosine...

 

[haidut]

I have been using a product for a week now. I do not feel any strong dopaminergic effects from it, but i do however feel more resilient to stress. Yesterday evening I've had a 4 beers and since I was expecting a hangover this morning I was planning on using Diamant as a cure as few guys here said that it acts as a instant hangover cure. But the funny thing is that I did not have any hangover this morning (I took 6 drops of Diamant orally about 3 hours before drinking). Usually I get a minor hangover even from 2 beers so that was totally unexpected. i also feel a slight increase in energy. But the alcochol clearance part totally blew me away. No need for Cardenosine...

Great, thanks for the feedback! I also use about 10mg adamantane before drinking and find that it works well for both reducing the drunkenness while drinking (which some people may not like as getting drunk is the very point for some) and also reducing hangover the next morning. If I take adamantane, I can get away with drinking 5 IPA beers the night before, sleep well and be functional the next day. Without it, I would toss and turn for hours and feel like crap the following day. Without adamantane, my limit is probably 2-3 beers without feeling like zombie for 24 hours after that.

 

[Jsaute21]

Diamant seems to go really well with BCAAs. I Have been experimenting with lowering serotonin with BCAAs lately again. It seems that the anti-serotonin effect is amplified by Diamant.

Which BCAA Brand do you use? I have difficulty finding a good brand without soy lecithin or some other garbage filler.

 

[Vinero]

Which BCAA Brand do you use? I have difficulty finding a good brand without soy lecithin or some other garbage filler.

I just bought what was available at the health food store, which was free of most nasty fillers.
This is the product I use
Precision Engineered BCAA Poeder kopen bij Holland & Barrett
There's two versions, tropical and unflavored.
I've got the unflavored because the tropical has nasty fillers in it.
I bought it in the Netherlands though, don't know if it's available where you live.

 

[Vinero]

Great, thanks for the feedback! I also use about 10mg adamantane before drinking and find that it works well for both reducing the drunkenness while drinking (which some people may not like as getting drunk is the very point for some) and also reducing hangover the next morning. If I take adamantane, I can get away with drinking 5 IPA beers the night before, sleep well and be functional the next day. Without it, I would toss and turn for hours and feel like crap the following day. Without adamantane, my limit is probably 2-3 beers without feeling like zombie for 24 hours after that.

Since alcohol overlaps with Adamantane in effects (increase Dopamine, NMDA antagonist) I have found a few beers make me feel like really euphoric, as if it's the first time I drink alcohol. This is reported by many memantine users, that alcohol becomes very euphoric/enjoyable.

 

[Waynish]

Since alcohol overlaps with Adamantane in effects (increase Dopamine, NMDA antagonist) I have found a few beers make me feel like really euphoric, as if it's the first time I drink alcohol. This is reported by many memantine users, that alcohol becomes very euphoric/enjoyable.

You're taking it orally? How have you all compared the oral and topical effects?

 

[Vinero]

You're taking it orally? How have you all compared the oral and topical effects?

I've done both, feels the same. I don't notice any difference.
The key to using Diamant is taking it everyday, even a very low dose (5 mg or lower).
Taking Diamant everyday makes your brain upregulate the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs), which are antagonized initially. This explains the brain fog users get when taking a high dose. This disappears completely after a few days of consecutive dosing, and you get a crisp clear-headed feeling. The key is not taking too much, too fast.

 

[Mito]

I also use about 10mg adamantane before drinking and find that it works well for both reducing the drunkenness while drinking (which some people may not like as getting drunk is the very point for some) and also reducing hangover the next morning.

In the Cardenosine post, you noted that the main effects that make it beneficial with alcohol consumption is that it accelerates alcohol metabolism (by speeding up BOTH alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase) and reduces the negative effects of acetaldehyde on the entire organism. Other benefits include prevention of ATP depletion.

What do you think the mechanism is with the beneficial effects you see with Diamant and alcohol consumption?

 

[Waynish]

In the Cardenosine post, you noted that the main effects that make it beneficial with alcohol consumption is that it accelerates alcohol metabolism (by speeding up BOTH alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase) and reduces the negative effects of acetaldehyde on the entire organism. Other benefits include prevention of ATP depletion.

What do you think the mechanism is with the beneficial effects you see with Diamant and alcohol consumption?

LSD definitely temporarily decreases issues with alcohol metabolism - I wonder if there's a similar mechanism.

 

[haidut]

In the Cardenosine post, you noted that the main effects that make it beneficial with alcohol consumption is that it accelerates alcohol metabolism (by speeding up BOTH alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase) and reduces the negative effects of acetaldehyde on the entire organism. Other benefits include prevention of ATP depletion.

What do you think the mechanism is with the beneficial effects you see with Diamant and alcohol consumption?

Adamantane and its derivatives have been shown to increase activity of cytochrome P450. Alcohol is metabolized by both ALD/ALDH and a subset of P450 known as CYP2E1.
Ethanol metabolism by alcohol dehydrogenase or cytochrome P450 2E1 differentially impairs hepatic protein trafficking and growth hormone signaling. - PubMed - NCBI
CYP2E1 - Wikipedia
"...CYP2E1 also plays a role in several important metabolic reactions, including the conversion of ethanol to acetaldehyde and to acetate in humans,[9] where it works alongside alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase. In the conversion sequence of acetyl-CoA to glucose, CYP2E1 transforms acetone via hydroxyacetone (acetol) into propylene glycol and methylglyoxal, the precursors of pyruvate, acetate and lactate.[10][11][12]"

So, I suspect adamantane speeds up ethanol metabolism through the P450 pathway. In addition, being a fully saturated hydrocarbon, it probably protects the liver from ethanol similar to the studies Peat mentioned (and I posted follow up on) showing SFA reversing disease from alcohol abuse. Finally, adamantane stabilizes the cell membrane and makes the cell more lipophillic, which makes it more resistant to the negative effects of alcohol metabolites like acetaldehyde. A more lipophilic cell is also less vulnerable to estrogen (which alcohol also raises). Saturated steroids like androsterone and DHT have been reported to have similar effects on alcohol metabolism and I suspect the mechanism is similar as they also increase subsets of P450 and stabilize/protect the cell.