Danny Roddy And Meal Suggestions

Imonaquest

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I've been in contact a lot with Ray Peat lately. Instead of getting secondhand information and answers to my questions, I decided to ask him myself.

One thing that seems awfully bizarre are some of Danny Roddy's "interpretations" of Ray Peat's food suggestions. Such as salting and sugaring milk? Where the heck did he get that one? Ray said to try to avoid white sugar because its devoid of any nutrition. Try to use fruit and juice, and if you need to add sugar, use honey. Sugaring milk certainly wasn't a recommendation. Weird.

He's about nutrient density, not just scrapping together meals that work in his guidelines. I've seen some comical meal suggestions on here.

As far as sweetening your coffee, its best to have it with fruit and or juices, not pouring half a bottle of sugar into it. I knew I was on the right track when a lot of these suggestions weren't working for me.
 
J

j.

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Fruit is better than table sugar, but as my health improved, I can consume more table sugar and still feel fine.
 

sctb

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j. said:
Fruit is better than table sugar, but as my health improved, I can consume more table sugar and still feel fine.

I think it's up to us to as individuals to "dial things in". From what I
understand, Danny does a lot of self-experimentation and does so
in the context of tracking markers like pulse, temperature, etc. He
is probably making recommendations based on some of his findings.

- Scott
 

jyb

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Imonaquest said:
I've been in contact a lot with Ray Peat lately. Instead of getting secondhand information and answers to my questions, I decided to ask him myself.

One thing that seems awfully bizarre are some of Danny Roddy's "interpretations" of Ray Peat's food suggestions. Such as salting and sugaring milk? Where the heck did he get that one? Ray said to try to avoid white sugar because its devoid of any nutrition. Try to use fruit and juice, and if you need to add sugar, use honey. Sugaring milk certainly wasn't a recommendation. Weird.

He's about nutrient density, not just scrapping together meals that work in his guidelines. I've seen some comical meal suggestions on here.

As far as sweetening your coffee, its best to have it with fruit and or juices, not pouring half a bottle of sugar into it. I knew I was on the right track when a lot of these suggestions weren't working for me.

I have found Danny Roddy's meal plan helpful when I first started. I gave me the idea of small, frequent meals throughout the day.

I think there's no need to explain why salting milk is good. Nor sugaring. Of course its better to use fruit juice if you have access to some at the time, I don't recall Danny saying otherwise. Danny's meal example is nutrient dense. Shellfish, liver or something every day, a lot of OJ etc.
 

jaa

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Doesn't Ray recommend Haagan Daaz? Lots of added sugar in that.

And there's a Ray Peat ice cream in the recipe section which is basically a bunch of sugar, milk, and coconut oil with an egg yolk.
 

4peatssake

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In an email to me, Ray recommended that I drink milk with sugar or honey before bed to help with insomnia. I had a reaction to the honey but the sugar is fine.

And last night, I was reading a newsletter where he talks about the benefits of salt to combat edema. He turns so much "conventional wisdom" on its head.

I think we all need to do our own due diligence and discover what works best for ourselves and our unique situation.

Everything in context.

:2cents
 

pboy

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Sugar itself is beneficial if you can process it! So if you got all the vitamin / minerals you needed to process 2000 calories in the day from dense food sources, on say only 1200 calories, then you could eat nearly 800 calories worth of sugar and still be ok. But if you are eating relatively neutral or non nutrient dense foods, then you can't afford to eat plain sugar or you may not have the nutrition to process it, hence consuming fruit instead (it generally has enough nutrition, + a little more, to process itself). The molecule sucrose itself is easily apsorbable, highly palatable, highly desired by the body, and effieciently utilized...therefore it is awesome, granted you've taken in enough b vitamins, minerals, protein, and electryolytes so your body is functioning and can process the sugar.
 

jaketthomas

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My experience has been that adding sugar compromises my health. I love the traditional "Ray Peat" diet, but dumping loads of sugar into my milk, coffee, and orange juice makes me feel like crap.

I'm a huge fan of salting things though. Salt can help the body deal with the stresses of inadequate thyroid and adrenal function. Ray has said that a lot of sea salt's contain heavy metals, but I use Pink Sea Salt that comes with a certificate of analysis, and is free of contaminants. I use it very liberally and it's great.

But I agree with you, added sugar isn't a good idea for a lot of us. When I stopping using white sugar in my diet, my health went to the next level. When I was dumping 5 sugars into my coffee, and sugaring my milk, and eating a lot of sugared stuff like Gummi Bears and Ice Cream, I felt terrible. Pboy may have a very good point with the processing of sugar, and needing adequate mineral reserves. Perhaps my body isn't quite there yet. For now, I avoid added sugar, except honey.
 

4peatssake

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jaketthomas said:
My experience has been that adding sugar compromises my health. I love the traditional "Ray Peat" diet, but dumping loads of sugar into my milk, coffee, and orange juice makes me feel like crap.

I'm a huge fan of salting things though. Salt can help the body deal with the stresses of inadequate thyroid and adrenal function. Ray has said that a lot of sea salt's contain heavy metals, but I use Pink Sea Salt that comes with a certificate of analysis, and is free of contaminants. I use it very liberally and it's great.

But I agree with you, added sugar isn't a good idea for a lot of us. When I stopping using white sugar in my diet, my health went to the next level. When I was dumping 5 sugars into my coffee, and sugaring my milk, and eating a lot of sugared stuff like Gummi Bears and Ice Cream, I felt terrible. Pboy may have a very good point with the processing of sugar, and needing adequate mineral reserves. Perhaps my body isn't quite there yet. For now, I avoid added sugar, except honey.

This is interesting to me Jake as my experience is completely different. I had deprived myself of sugar for more than 20 years thinking it was bad for me and what I found is the sugar I tolerate the best is white sugar as well as fructose and lactose. I react terribly to honey.

I get the majority of my sugar from orange juice and milk but I do use sugar liberally in my coffee with gelatin and I add it to milk at night and to my "creamsicles" (milk and OJ combined). I don't have to, but I prefer it.

Everything improved for me when I began to eat sugar and a lot of it, from orange juice, milk and yes, refined white sugar.

This may of course change for me but I think we need to be careful about making sweeping statements about anything being all good or all bad - except for those things we are certain about, PUFAs, estrogen, non ripe fruit etc.

My improvements dovetail with what Ray has written about sucrose, particularly as it relates to reducing stress.

"Sucrose consumption lowers ACTH, the main pituitary stress hormone (Klement, et al., 2009; Ulrich-Lai, et al., 2007), and stress promotes increased sugar and fat consumption (Pecoraro, et al., 2004). If animals' adrenal glands are removed, so that they lack the adrenal steroids, they choose to consume more sucrose (Laugero, et al., 2001). Stress seems to be perceived as a need for sugar. In the absence of sucrose, satisfying this need with starch and fat is more likely to lead to obesity."

"Sucrose (and sometimes honey) is increasingly being used to reduce pain in newborns, for minor things such as injections (Guala, et al., 2001; Okan, et al., 2007; Anand, et al., 2005; Schoen and Fischell, 1991). It's also effective in adults. It acts by influencing a variety of nerve systems, and also reduces stress."

"Salty and sugary foods taken at bedtime, or during the night, help to improve the quality and duration of sleep. Both salt and sugar lower the adrenalin level, and both tend to raise the body temperature."

"A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions."

"Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic."

In my situation, I was experiencing enormous stress and can testify to refined sugar being an important means by which I've been able to reduce this stress. So at present, I would say I am using it therapeutically with good results.

If milk sugar alone were sufficient to mitigate my insomnia, it is doubtful Ray Peat would have recommended I add sugar or honey to it.
 

jaketthomas

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No, I didn't mean to imply that white sugar is bad. Just that I don't respond well to it. I don't doubt that some may respond well to it. That's wonderful you found what works for you. I was just in agreement with the original poster in regards to what he/she feels about added sugars.
 

4peatssake

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jaketthomas said:
No, I didn't mean to imply that white sugar is bad. Just that I don't respond well to it. I don't doubt that some may respond well to it. That's wonderful you found what works for you. I was just in agreement with the original poster in regards to what he/she feels about added sugars.

Well understood. My point is that what works for the goose doesn't always work for the gander. ;)

I think it is important we be very clear about that. And I bristle when I hear criticism of sugar of any kind, especially when its therapeutic value is so well documented.

I certainly don't knock honey because I have an allergic reaction to it. I wish I tolerated it - but I don't.

It is far better to consume sugar than most other things. While sucrose is not the most optimal source, it is certainly better than eating no sugar and in some instances very important to one's healing.
 
T

tobieagle

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Imonaquest said:
I've been in contact a lot with Ray Peat lately. Instead of getting secondhand information and answers to my questions, I decided to ask him myself.

I think a lot of people would like to read it. ==> "Email Advice Depository" :)
 

charlie

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tobieagle said:
Imonaquest said:
I've been in contact a lot with Ray Peat lately. Instead of getting secondhand information and answers to my questions, I decided to ask him myself.

I think a lot of people would like to read it. ==> "Email Advice Depository" :)

Totally agree. :rockout

Here is the link to save some time:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1035
 

Dutchie

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I get what he means,i think. Wgite sugar is still bad. in my eyes,robs me too much of vits&minerals.
4peatssake said:
jaketthomas said:
No, I didn't mean to imply that white sugar is bad. Just that I don't respond well to it. I don't doubt that some may rwever i dont have much problems with raw canesugar,pa....honey is too high free fructose for me.lmsugar,maple syrup,molaespond well to it. That's wonderful you found what works for you. I was just in agreement with the original poster in regards to what he/she feels about added sugars.

Well understood. My point is that what works for the goose doesn't always work for the gander. ;)

I think it is important we be very clear about that. And I bristle when I hear criticism of sugar of any kind, especially when its therapeutic value is so well documented.

I certainly don't knock honey because I have an allergic reaction to it. I wish I tolerated it - but I don't.

It is far better to consume sugar than most other things. While sucrose is not the most optimal source, it is certainly better than eating no sugar and in some instances very important to one's healing.
 

Imonaquest

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The point I was trying to make, and Ray himself even said it, was that white sugar is devoid of nutrients, and because of that, the body has to use stored nutrients in order to process it. So in the end, it ends up robbing your body of nutrition, which is why Ray doesn't suggest the use of it. He said its ok in a pinch for added carbohydrate, but there are better sugar options out there, namely fruit, OJ and honey.

I've been at this now for 6 months, and have tinkered with a lot of variations of this diet. No refined sugar is really the only version that's worked for me. Feel terrific. I don't put sugar in my coffee anymore. I just make sure to drink coffee with meal where I'm having some fruit. I put whole milk in my coffee, eat a few cups of pineapple or mango, and now all of a sudden coffee is working for me. I had said before I had an adverse reaction to the coffee on this diet. Wasn't the case. It was the 4-6 tsp of sugar I was putting into it.

Since I stopped using sugar, my pulse has jumped up 8 bpm, my body temperature has gone up .5 degrees, the dark circles under my eyes have drastically lessened, and I have much more of a pink color in my face.

I'm not here to argue that white sugar is good or bad for you. I think some of you who have had positive reactions with it might not be eating enough fruit or drinking enough juice. Relying on processed, mineral robbing white sugar isn't the best health strategy long-term.
 

Imonaquest

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I'll give Danny Roddy some credit. He's the person that turned me onto Ray Peat, but unfortunately, Danny Roddy's interpretation of Ray Peat's work left me feeling sick and anxious. It all came down to the sugar he recommends. I did it all. Sugared my milk, sugared my OJ, sugared the daylights out of my coffee. No good. Soon as I stopped all of that nonsense, I felt great. And I wouldn't have stopped it if it wasn't for the communication I had with Ray Peat, basically telling me that white sugar is not recommended. Meanwhile, if you talk to Danny Roddy, white sugar might as well be the silver-bullet for curing disease.

I went from having 3-10 panic attacks a day, to feeling as grounded as I have in years, just simply eliminating white sugar from my diet. And mind you, I didn't have panic attacks like this before Peat-ing. It was 100% a reaction to the white sugar.
 
J

j.

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Imonaquest said:
I'm not here to argue that white sugar is good or bad for you. I think some of you who have had positive reactions with it might not be eating enough fruit or drinking enough juice. Relying on processed, mineral robbing white sugar isn't the best health strategy long-term.

If you're consuming a lot of milk, orange juice, eggs, liver once a week and other organ meats, I think it's unlikely you would have nutrient deficiencies, even if you eat a lot of sugar.
 

Imonaquest

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I don't understand your point, J. I never implied I had nutritional deficiencies. I only said that white sugar robs your body of nutrition. I understand if someone wants to have a "treat" with white sugar in it. Not a big deal at all. But when you're adding sugar to everything like Danny Roddy suggests, that's just a dumb health strategy. Doesn't make sense at all to me to build up your health by eating nutrient rich foods, then breaking your health down with white sugar. Which is exactly what it does.

It's like making a lot of money at work, building up your savings, and blowing most of it on booze and cigarettes. Adding white sugar to things literally has no benefit to the body whatsoever unless you are in dire need of carbohydrates. At which point, eating or drinking something nutritious is a no brainer. The whole white sugar thing didnt make sense to me from the start, but I trusted Danny Roddy's Peat research. Turns out, the main man himself advised against using it!

Well, you live and learn. I'm glad I experienced the downside of added sugar. It was something I needed to go through, for more clarification of what works and what doesn't. :)
 

Mittir

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Having 3-10 panic attacks a day for simply adding sugar to milk and OJ shows severe nutritional deficiencies and broken metabolism. Your case is rare and you need to see professionals. Do you know nutritional profile of honey?
Vitamin and mineral content of honey is almost zero. Here is a link to nutrition of honey
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5568/2
There are tons of websites that will calculate all your vitamin and minerals if you plug in your food intakes.
You also have to know your calorie requirements. If your calorie requirement is 2000 cal you will not be feeling fine if you eat 4000 calorie. Sugar increases metabolism and increased metabolism needs extra nutrient. Did you ask Ray Peat how many cups of coffee he drinks everyday and what kind of sugar he adds to his coffee and ice cream? Please do not bash Ray Peat if he adds sugar to his coffee and ice cream.
There are 100 articles and 70 plus hours of audio interview of RP. All the things you need to know is there.
That is first hand information.
http://raypeat.com/articles/
http://eastwesthealing.com/podcasts/ray-peat/
 
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