Food Combinations - Sugar, Fat

[Zahartof]

I can attest to food combining problems. My life-long serious allergies all disappeared after I stopped eating carbs with anything else. The amount eaten is very important. Small ice cream is no problem. Big ice cream is bad. Meat with rice/potatoes/etc. causes very bad problems and acute allergic reactions (to histamine). And so on... these were just examples. My intestinal health and digestion is 100% better when separating carbs from fats/protein in higher (normal for most people) doses.

 

[ursidae]

This. This.
All the people having problems with meat and starch. Stop eating them together. I’ve experienced huge improvements from eating everything separately

 

[jet9]

@Hgreen56 Just to be clear, you won't be getting a reply from WestSide or OP, neither have been active for quite some time.

As for food combining, I do think there's probably something to it. I notice substantial differences in my state when I sort of follow the natural Randle Cycle theory. I essentially have really low fat breakfasts and lunches, and my highest fat meal is dinner. There's something to be said about starting the day off with a really low fat meal. I think, for me anyways, it tends to push my body towards glucose oxidation for the rest of the day.

Also, when push comes to shove, I think having lots of dietary fat in one single meal, towards the end of the day, is a lot better on the metabolism then eating high amounts of fat throughout the day. So I don't really think the amount of fat is really in question per se, I think the timing of when you eat the fat is far more important (although my total fat intake tends to be low as well).

The whole randle cycle thing is extremely complicated to be such a simple cycle, so it's obvious the same thing may not work broadly across many people. Different people will respond better to different things. And this partly can be explained by people's exposure to enviromental toxins, like bacterial endotoxin for example. People who seem to have a high degree of metabolic flexibility will be able to combine high amounts of sugar and fat with less concern.

How is your sleep with high fat dinner? And how many grams of fat do you have?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'm sorry. I don't care how "hypo metabolic" drinking a coke with liver cooked in butter is. It's a horrendous combination that your digestive system cannot handle.

When sugar and fat are in the bloodstream at the same time, it is DISASTROUS. Nothing breaks the body down more quickly, in fact.

Carbohydrates were meant to be eaten alone. And proteins and fats were meant to be eaten together. This is how you digest food and drink properly.

First of all Ray Peat says to eat only 3 ounces of liver a week cooked in a LITTLE butter, and to have coffee afterwards. Most people eat a lot more liver than that. He doesn’t recommend eating starchy carbs at all, but says a potato, with a lot of the starch boiled out of it, is best to pair with butter to help get it through the body. Pairing proteins with a sugar source is to avoid blood sugar drops. People tend to take his advice to extremes. I have experienced the low carb blood sugar drops and fatigue from eating proteins alone, and having an iced tea with sugar paired with my carne asada is a wonderful combination. I never felt as good on Keto and low carb that is for sure. With that being said, I agree that pairing a lot of sugar with a lot of fat, and especially adding starch on top of that, from cookies, cupcakes, and other baked goods is a great recipe for weight gain, which some people need, or can afford.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“By present and past statements of the American Dietetic Association, I think some kind of institutional brain defect might account for their recommendations. Although the dietetic association now feebly acknowledges that sugars don't raise the blood sugar more quickly than starches do, they can't get away from their absurd old recommendations, which were never scientifically justified: “Eat more starches, such as bread, cereal, and starchy vegetables--6 servings a day or more. Start the day with cold (dry) cereal with nonfat/skim milk or a bagel with one teaspoon of jelly/jam. Put starch center stage--pasta with tomato sauce, baked potato with chili, rice and stir-fried beef and vegetables. Add cooked black beans, corn, or garbanzo beans (chickpeas) to salads or casseroles.” -Ray Peat

 

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“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat" -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“People on a standard diet will typically burn 200 or 300 more calories per day when that amount of sugar is added to their diet; but if extra fat is added, too, some of the extra calories are likely to be deposited as fat. It's important to watch the signs of changing heat production as the diet changes." -Ray Peat

 

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"I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories." -Ray Peat e-mail exchange

 

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“Small meals help to increase the metabolic rate, single big meals increase fat storage." -Ray Peat

 

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“When starch is well cooked, and eaten with some fat and the essential nutrients, it's safe, except that it's more likely than sugar to produce fat, and isn't as effective for mineral balance."

- Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I like this interview with Ray Peat from one of our members, tca300....

Me: If you don't mind me asking a question. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that you think starches are OK or even beneficial to eat, even when Fruit is available. Some are saying that super cooked starch to the point of it being wet and somewhat soggy, has beneficial effects that surpass sucrose. I was wondering if you think that stuff is accurate or is starch harmful and not ideal when compared to fruits and their sugars. Thank you!
Ray Peat: When a non-starchy fruit is available I think it’s always preferable to starch. Alkali-processed corn is the only kind that I’m willing to eat, and seldom that (e.g., corundas made with wood ashes).

Ray Peat: For people with really sensitive intestines or bad bacteria, starch should be zero.
Ray Peat: Starch-grain embolisms can cause brain damage..
Ray Peat: There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches.

Ray Peat: In the winter in the US, I use a lot of frozen orange juice concentrate, because good fruit is scarce. When you use refined sugar it’s important to avoid the starchy foods, emphasizing milk, cheese, eggs, fruits, and occasional liver and seafood. Cooked leafy greens and mushrooms should substitute for starchy vegetables.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“After decades of “education” to promote eating starchy foods, obesity is a bigger problem than ever, and more people are dying of diabetes than previously. The age-specific incidence of most cancers is increasing, too, and there is evidence that starch, such as pasta, contributes to breast cancer, and possibly other types of cancer.

The epidemiology would appear to suggest that complex carbohydrates cause diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. If the glycemic index is viewed in terms of the theory that hyperglycemia, by way of “glucotoxicity,” causes the destruction of proteins by glycation, which is seen in diabetes and old age, that might seem simple and obvious."-Ray Peat

 

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View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FcPEc1fH5dA

 

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“Around 1988 I read Gerhard Volkheimer’s persorption article, and after doing some experiments with tortillas and masa, I stopped eating all starch except for those, then eventually I stopped those. Besides grains of starch entering the blood stream, lymph, and cerebral spinal fluid, starch feeds bacteria, increasing endotoxin and serotonin.” -Ray Peat

 

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View: https://youtu.be/ymLAdGkaoKM?si=qOR8ew5C3iG6cS_e

 

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View: https://youtu.be/hgZqCdMGqdM?si=_Dvm10s-1hIudxrv

 

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View: https://youtu.be/feAV58jgALs?si=1TdvaFxyrdmZfErB

 

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[Rinse & rePeat]

The first time Ray Peat and I exchanged e-mails, I told him I am an advocate for him, to make sure he is not misquoted. He has always said not to pair proteins with fats, to have a little honey or fruit to balance protein meals, but preferably BEFORE a protein meal, and never recommended eating a lot of meat or liver. He never recommended pairing sugars with fats, except a little ice cream at night for sleep, if one wasn’t trying to lose weight. He has always said white sugar is a last resort if good fruit or honey is not available. The Coke thing came into play in the rat study to prove sugar does not make people fat. I didn’t read through this thread or even finish the first half of reading the initial post, before I felt compelled to correct the first half I read. I will finish up later if need be.