Poor Sugar Digestion. And Betaine HCL Experiment

[YuraCZ]

I have crazy I mean CRAZY bloating and gas from resistant starch(cooled parboiled rice). My experiences. Never mix fruit with starch and starch with fruit. Fruit is best alone or with easy to digest protein(whey isolate, hydrolyzed collagen..). Chew your starches very very well and eat smaller portions(overcooked starches are better) and also don't mix starches with fats..

 

[Sea]

Very appropriate corrections to my case, Sea. I looked at your reference again and see that I too hastily dismissed it as not pertaining to SIBO. And I totally missed the significance of resistant starch NOT resisting bacterial fermentation in the SI, and thus NOT being indicated as any help at all for someone suffering from SIBO. I definitely withdraw all my suggestions on that as of this point, and thank you for staying with this until I read your reference carefully.

On our differences, we are left with

1. Persorption - wouldn't the starches you recommended (potatoes, rice, corn and wheat refined flours) still be risks (this aside from what they are doing, or not doing to a case of SIBO)?

2. Your recommended starches might still be compounding, not relieving, SIBO? Your own references seem to say "compounding": 'Sugars are very quickly absorbed in the upper intestine, so starches and fibers normally provide most of the nourishment for bowel bacteria' (Peat).

3. Antibioics - fast yes. Risks, yes. Lasting effect? Less than for dietary modification (see your own reference, recommending prebiotics such as Akkermansia). Personally, I'd go that route any day before taking antibiotics. That's just me.

if you care to comment further....

1. Sure they will be risks, but having sibo is a bigger risk and curing sibo faster I think is of more concern than persorption.

2. With SIBO I think starches are often easier to digest than foods like juice or milk. If you remember from Stuart's thread I posted studies showing that with sibo even sucrose digestion can be impaired. I think this is why people like Danny Roddy advocate making a syrup out of sugar so that the sugar is easier to digest. I found that I did best with SIBO before I took antibiotics, by consuming a decent amount of honey along with starches like pizza. In my experience when you are hypothyroid you need a lot of calories to gain the amount of energy that a normal person can get with less calories. And, starch has very dense calories that are also low in water, and very tasty. Ray Peat's food suggestions are of what are the optimal/safest types of foods that can be chosen, but these aren't necessarily foods that a hypothyroid person can digest well due to the water content of that type of diet that isn't a concern when one isn't hypothyroid.

3. I don't think the risk is that high for the antibiotics Ray Peat talks about. As long as you can consume enough calories I think the risk of allowing an infection to sustain is greater than the risk of taking a small dosage of tetracycline. You could start with the penicillins which don't have as broad a spectrum as the tetracyclines. You could even start off with antibacterial herbs and then take an antibiotic after some initial killing has been accomplished. How long the effect lasts is gonna depend a lot, but with antibiotics you can always take more if the infection comes back. I first took minocyline over 6 months ago which reversed lactose intolerance in just a few days and allowed me to digest anything. I still can digest every food now, but I can tell that my stomach isn't as quiet as before and I am waiting for a new order of antibiotics so I can do another round of intensive bombing.

I didn't mean to recommend probiotics. A couple months ago I could tell that some bacteria were making a comeback. I experimented with an old bottle of probiotic and they seemed to stop the symptom, but after a longer experiment I found that they lowered my temperature by about 1degree, they caused wheezing when I never wheeze so I don't think they are safe or work when they are out of your system. I think antibiotics are a much better approach that is going to the root of the problem whereas a probiotic is only gonna mask the symptoms.

 

[forterpride]

No need to use betaine HCL, that only works in the short term and doesn't help the root of the problem. Low stomach acid is just caused by a slowed metabolism and it is likely that overgrown bacteria are causing you to bloat due when they feed on the fiber and anything else you are not adequately digesting.

Try honey and continue consuming juice. Also stick to refined carbohydrates and less fermentable fiber in general. White potatoes, refined corn flour, white rice and refined white flour are all sources of carbohydrates that should be easy to digest even with a bacterial overgrowth. Next, consider some antibiotics. Antibiotics can help you unlock your digestion so that you can eat more food and strengthen your metabolism before the bacteria can regain a foothold.

I have some amoxicillin 500 and cephalexin 500. how would i go about taking it to do this? thanks.

 

[lvysaur]

and also don't mix starches with fats..

Peat recommends mixing starches with fats. Additionally, nightshade solanine (potato) is deactivated in the presence of cholesterol (animal fat). It also tastes very good.

 

[SamYo123]

Yes, sugar is the easiest food to digest. So easy, that bacteria in the small intestine can gobble it up (and make a lot of gas) quicker than your gut can absorb it. Bloating is from the gas. The gas is from the bacteria. Did you have your appendix removed? That may make small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) more persistent and harder to cure. Either way, you may have excess bacteria in your small intestine. The solution is to try to starve the bacteria down to very low numbers. You need a special diet. It will minimize the bacterial target food (sugars). I know this is the opposite of your present intent. I know it may be the last thing you want to do. So if you get to the point where nothing else works, check out the recommended diet for SIBO (and this is preferable to a course of antibiotics - which is proven to work only temporarily!):

Dietary Treatment

"bloating is from the gas."

So what about milk being bloated, but no gas occurs?

What about eating fiber foods where no bloating occcurs, but gas does ( sometimes)

Isn't the fiber populating good microbes that allows for less bloat, due to more bowl movements?

How is that possible?