Ray Peat 'diet'. Two weeks in. Signs not good.

Peato Diet

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Up until 2 weeks ago I had been on a low carb 'GAPS diet' for about 9 months e.g.

• Low carb i.e. no sugar, fruit, grains, rice, potatoes etc.
• Calories from carbs replaced by fat in the form of coconut oil and butter.
• Lots of fermented foods in the form of fermented vegetables and kefir.
• Lots of soups made from bone broth.
• Meats and some liver.

(In Ray Peats view this is a very stressful diet).

The reason I went on the GAPS diet was to see if it would help my 'brain fog', low energy levels and some eczema.

The results after 9 months on the GAPS diet where my skin cleared completely for the first time in years (I haven’t had any skin issues for about 7 - 8 months). My 'brain fog' symptoms improved. My Energy levels could be better but I didn’t experiment with adding sugars in the form of fruit etc. which may have helped.

However lately I’ve recently been eating 'Peat style', who I came across via Danny Roddy. I’m starting to lose hair so I was interested in Dannys/Peats theories in regard to hair loss.

Within two weeks on the 'Ray Peat diet' things are not looking good:

• My eczema has come back already.
• My 'brain fog' symptoms seem to be getting worse.
• Physical and emotional energy is not as smooth/steady.
• I get bouts of sweating where my clothes are soaking.

There has been a minor benefit however:

Strength gains and more energy in the gym (I put on about a stone in weight in the first week which I think is mostly water and glycogen as a result of going from pretty much a zero carb diet to having lots of carbs).

I know a lot of Peats theories contradict with what is being said in the paleo community etc. on topics such as fructose, ketosis, pasteurised milk, hi carb , sugar etc, but :arrow: I was wondering if anyone has any idea (from a Ray Peat point of view) why my health seems to be taking a turn for the worse :?:

I feel im eating fairly well in accordance to Peats guidlines. I’ve been drinking about 4 pints of organic pasteurised whole milk (can’t get raw) along with equal amounts of OJ (no bits), honey, daily carrot salad, some meats (no chicken), some organ meat etc.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

cliff

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If you have been low carb for awhile there will definitely be a bit of adaptation at first, niacianamide, aspirin and baking soda can help.
 

Mittir

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Were you drinking milk during your GAP time? It takes some time for body to get used to milk. In one interview RP mentioned that it takes about 3 weeks for lactose intolerant people to get used to drink 1 and half glass of milk. Did you notice your temperature and pulse before and during peat. Peat is a huge fan of coconut oil and butter.
 

Jenn

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Just because something is "good for you", doesn't mean YOUR body knows what to do with it.

If someone has been eating a high cellulose diet (greens, vegetables etc.) for a long while, they do benefit from low carb diets temporarily because undigested cellulose encourages "bad" bacteria growth in the intestines.

Monitor your pH levels (urine or saliva).

Fermented foods are NOT good for people already making too much lactic acid.

I would encourage you to get your carbs in the form of potatoes as they are very bowel forming.
 

Peato Diet

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cliff said:
If you have been low carb for awhile there will definitely be a bit of adaptation at first, niacianamide, aspirin and baking soda can help.

Thanks. I’ll try that.

Do you know can niacin be used in place of niacianamide (I have some niacin already)?

Do you know what are the optimal dosages, spacing of, and for how long one should take niacianamide (or niacin), aspirin and baking soda for the adaption to take place (I weigh about 80KG, fairly lean and do four short intense gym sessions per week. Possibly not Peat friendly but surely some stress is necessary/good)?

I know vit k should be taken along with aspirin. I read somewhere (possibly not correct) that Peat recommends 1mg vitamin K1 with every 325mg of aspirin. I have vitamin K2 and each capsule contains 100 mcg (which equals 0.1 mg), so I would need to pop 10 Vitamin K2 pills for every 325mg pill of aspirin. Vitamin K2 is quite expensive. My question is, do you need less vitamin K1 or what is the correct dosage?
 

Peato Diet

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Mittir said:
Were you drinking milk during your GAP time? It takes some time for body to get used to milk. In one interview RP mentioned that it takes about 3 weeks for lactose intolerant people to get used to drink 1 and half glass of milk. Did you notice your temperature and pulse before and during peat. Peat is a huge fan of coconut oil and butter.

I was drinking about 3 pints of milk per day in the form of kefir for about 9 months. I was not drinking any 'normal' milk during that time. I thought that consuming kefir may have prepared my system at least somewhat for the milk. Although I cant point the finger as i don’t know what’s causing the symptoms especially the most visible one which is the speedy return of eczema.

The only real differences between my GAPS diet and 'my' Ray Peat diet are:

• Addition of organic whole pasteurised milk
• Addition of fruit sugars (bear in mind my GAPS diet was no carb or sugar rich foods. I therefore went from very low to very high sugar practically overnight)
• Removal of fermented foods
• Removal of chicken

So any problems I’m having should be caused by one of the above and I suspect its something to do with the milk and/or OJ in the copious amounts I’m consuming (which is what is recommended by Ray). It seems that by dropping the milk and/or OJ then this diet would be less convenient to follow :(

I know Ray doesn’t see much difference between raw and pasteurised milk however the paleo community in general would say raw is healthy and pasteurised is unhealthy. Perhaps I need to try the raw milk and maybe squeeze my own oranges and increase amounts at a slower pace. Does anyone here notice a difference between raw and pasteurised milk and OJ :?:

I have not yet monitored temperature or pulse but what I have noticed is when I do even a small amount of physical activity I will sweat much more, so much so that my t-shirt is saturated. Then I get cold because I’m walking around in wet clothes. It’s uncomfortable. I’ll have to start carrying around a spare change of clothes. I also notice my heart beat is more irregular i.e. sometimes fast, but again it’s not a comfortable experience. It feels as if it’s fuelled by adrenaline. These are differences I’ve noticed since starting the ‘Peat’ diet.
 
J

j.

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If you eat a bit more cheese instead of milk, you could reduce your liquids and keeping the same intake of nutrients. Cheese I think is about as convenient as milk: you just buy it and eat it.
 

cliff

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No difference between pasteurized milk and raw but I notice a huge difference between milk with added vitamins and milk free of the added vitamins. Pasteurized Oj is fine for me as long as it's flash pasteurized stuff.

Niacin isn't what you want you want niacianmide preferably as pure powder. Baking soda and aspirin are probably a little easier to get with similar benefits. For nacniamide I would use 50mg 3 times a day spaced out, about 1-3 tbs of baking soda a day and ~325mg of aspirin. Vitamin k2 and k1 are basically interchangeable, he recommends 1mg of either. Exercise is fine if you eat enough and frequently.

I would say your problems are probably pretty typical of someone coming from a very low carb diet. Your body is so used to running on high levels of fats/ketones/stress hormones and your basically finally getting out of a starvation state. Your probably suffering from blood sugar issues, that's what the above supplements will help with. As your body starts to become used to using sugar as fuel again you should feel much better, use something like cronometer.com to make sure your covering all your bases with your nutrients. I would drop the honey and make chocolate syrup with white sugar to get even more nutrients.

Make sure your getting enough sun or artificial light
 

charlie

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Honey messes me up. I have yet to find one that doesn't.
 

jaguar43

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When high school wrestlers would prepare for a match, they basically stop eating and drinking and never sweat during practice. Once they started eating, the would sweat once again. Your glands were probably depleted of glycogen for so long that you have to adapt to glucose consumption. If I were you I'd try some potatoes here and there for the keto acids. Some coffee with some sugar and milk, to lower stress. It will take time, but it is important to understand that the paleo diet is really a scam. If you were to look into Weston A. Price research, in his book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration on page 260 the native Americans living in Canada barely ate the muscle meat. So the idea of eating Paleo would be more healthy if other parts of the animal could be consumed to stimulate metabolic rate. I find it hard to believe that the WAPF always tries to fight for Raw milk legal status but never seem to try to legalize other parts of the animal which would be more beneficial for health than any "A2 cow's milk."
 

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Mittir

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RP diet is very flexible, you can do his diet without milk and OJ. You can use cottage cheese, greek yogurt, hard of soft cheese instead of milk. If you are hypothyroid you will have problem with excess liquid and you will have extra need for salt. Do you have hypothyroid symptoms? You can check your TSH to get a good idea . RP mentioned that he never seen a person with TSH above 2 without any health problem. He also thinks that hypothyroid people have problem adjusting to raw milk. I was milk intolerant my whole adult life and now i can drink 3 cups of milk each day. It took me 3 months to get here. I tried raw milk and pasteurized and that did not help. Now i drink over boiled milk. I boil milk till it is reduced to 50% . This way i can consume more calories in less fluid intake. In future i want to drink pasteurized or raw milk. The nutritional difference between raw and pasteurized is not huge. Chris Masterjohn has an article on this. RP suggests OJ without pulp. You can also try different brands of milk but avoid milk with added vitamins. What was your protein intake during GAP? Low protein intake for long period can weaken your liver and that can cause hypothyroidism and cause problem in processing fructose. Egg white is very allergenic too. Check your temperature and pulse to get idea about your thyroid status. I think its good idea to check your thyroid before you consume so much liquid.
 

Peato Diet

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cliff said:
about 1-3 tbs of baking soda a day

I took a tablespoon of baking soda with my breakfast this morning. I’ve never driven to work as fast in my life. When I finally made it there, Danny Roddys stress free milk evacuated my arse with steel cutting force. The resulting propulsion lifted me about 2 foot off the toilet seat. During that split second of ultimate relief Ray Peats diet was the best thing in the world.

Anyone thinking of trying out baking soda, go slow. This is my heartfelt advice.

cliff said:
Vitamin k2 and k1 are basically interchangeable, he recommends 1mg of either.

Initially I thought I couldnt justify the price as vitamin K2 is usually expensive, however I found a cheap source of vitamin K2 from a respectable brand. Heres a comparison:

NOW Vit K2 - 100 caps providing 0.1 mg each = $9.27
Therefore 1 mg = $0.93 = approx. $27.81 per month at 1 mg per day.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013EJ5QM/?tag=rapefo-20

Compare that price with this:

Carlson Vitamin K2 - 180 caps providing 5.0 mg each = $39.99
Therefore 1 mg = $0.04 = approx. $1.33 per month at 1 mg per day.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003B3P4I6/?tag=rapefo-20
 

Peato Diet

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Mittir said:
you can do his diet without milk and OJ.

Ill try more solids in the way of cheeses and whole fruits. Something I'm more used to. Eight pints of fluids makes me look pregnant, but its a convenient way of getting nutrition though.

Mittir said:
Do you have hypothyroid symptoms?

Im not sure but im going to test thyroid function. Im in the UK so plan on using this:
http://www.myrios.co.uk/en/test-conditions/hypothyroidism/

Its a lot better than guessing. Looking forward to the day when our watches provide us with this info in real time.

Mittir said:
What was your protein intake during GAP?

GAPS is high in protein. Lots of broths, meats, eggs, fermented diary. Low protein def not an issue.
 

Mephisto

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Peato Diet said:
cliff said:
about 1-3 tbs of baking soda a day

I took a tablespoon of baking soda with my breakfast this morning. I’ve never driven to work as fast in my life. When I finally made it there, Danny Roddys stress free milk evacuated my arse with steel cutting force. The resulting propulsion lifted me about 2 foot off the toilet seat. During that split second of ultimate relief Ray Peats diet was the best thing in the world.

Anyone thinking of trying out baking soda, go slow. This is my heartfelt advice.

I laughed so much, thanks :mrgreen:
 

Peato Diet

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I’m thinking of ordering the following Thyroid Function test kit. It tests for free T4 and TSH (is that enough :?: ):
http://www.myrios.co.uk/en/test-conditions/hypothyroidism/

Is it worth having one of these tests done? Do levels of free T4 and TSH fluctuate during the day and after exercise etc? If so would a blood sample taken in the morning give a different reading to one taken at night, or is the difference so small as to be insignificant :?:
 

charlie

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Temperature and pulse to me are the most reliable information available to us for thyroid function. "Scientific" tests could show how much thyroid hormone is in your blood but it will not show if your body is utilizing it correctly.
 

jyb

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Peato Diet said:
I’m thinking of ordering the following Thyroid Function test kit. It tests for free T4 and TSH (is that enough :?: ):
http://www.myrios.co.uk/en/test-conditions/hypothyroidism/

Is it worth having one of these tests done? Do levels of free T4 and TSH fluctuate during the day and after exercise etc? If so would a blood sample taken in the morning give a different reading to one taken at night, or is the difference so small as to be insignificant :?:

I'm from the UK. You can get TSH, free T3 and free T4, and thyroid antibodies measured for free off NHS at your GP's practice. Or you should, because those are really common diagnostics for testing thyroid.

So start with these. But notice Peat thinks those indicators are probably junk and there are several reasons one of which are the fluctuations you mention.

If you want to go to a clinic for a blood work, I suggest you do other things like prolactin. Other members of the forum and Danny Roddy's blog have more information.
 

Mittir

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Peato Diet said:
I’m thinking of ordering the following Thyroid Function test kit. It tests for free T4 and TSH (is that enough :?: ):
http://www.myrios.co.uk/en/test-conditions/hypothyroidism/

Is it worth having one of these tests done? Do levels of free T4 and TSH fluctuate during the day and after exercise etc? If so would a blood sample taken in the morning give a different reading to one taken at night, or is the difference so small as to be insignificant :?:

RP believes that one can have normal TSH and have all the hypothyroid symptoms. But he also recommends to have TSH below 2. Elevated TSH causes lots of harms especially turmor and cancer. If you want to do blood test you have to do TSH test. TSH varies through out the day, but not a big change. I do all my tests in the morning, this way i can compare my future results whether TSH is going up or down. RP also likes Total T4 and total T3 tests more than free t3 t4 tests. I i were you i would have done either only TSH test or TSH +Total T3 + T4. T4 test without T3 does not help you much.
 
J

j.

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Yeah, I think a lot of people don't know that TSH is in the morning higher than after noon.
 
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