A Wish For More Energy

[boris]

2 quarts. Those are 2 bottles of milk. Practicality is for me: get it at the store, open, drink/eat. No prep time needed. I get 2 quarts with my large coffees throughout the day (sometimes coke and milk mixed) and a glas of milk with honey before sleep.

I know he doesn't eat starches that's why I didn't list any just "he says it's acceptable".

I have to say though, it took some time to get used to, but I was also severly damaged from heavy metal poisoning, fasting, strenuous exercise, low carb veganism, carnivore diet, etc.

 

[jzeno]

I thought he drank much more milk, but it does seem like he drinks 2 to 4 qt per day, which is not unreasonable.

What is unreasonable to me is that he doesn't eat any starches. That just seems crazy to me. Others will disagree but that is my opinion. And to not eat any starches and drink all that liquid sounds like a disaster in the wintertime.

 

[Energyforlife]

I saw that my stools became yellow. I still have a stomach ache in the morning. I do not know what to eat to be good. What to eat if friends are not good. I do not really have more energy I was all the month of August in carnivore. What do you advise me of simple to go up?

 

[boris]

@Energyforlife I saw in an older thread of yours that you restrict carbohydrates? You should eat more carbs. What do you eat in a day ?

 

[ExCarniv]

I thought he drank much more milk, but it does seem like he drinks 2 to 4 qt per day, which is not unreasonable.

What is unreasonable to me is that he doesn't eat any starches. That just seems crazy to me. Others will disagree but that is my opinion. And to not eat any starches and drink all that liquid sounds like a disaster in the wintertime.

Potatoes are good and no one ever will change my opinion about it, I eat them and warms me up instantly, specially in winter.

Rice I found its good if you need quick extra energy and is digested well for most people, if you are sedentary and sick, probably not the best choice.

I learnt to don't be dogmatic about food after keto and carnivore, even if I agree with most Peat ideas, I will eat like a normal person and foods that agree with me.

 

[Runenight201]

@GreekDemiGod Unless you're eating a habanero (which, I know, is very specific) and with a regular frequency (one per day, two per day), then you may not experience any noticeable effect. You could be eating a weak pepper, like a jalapeno, and only once per week, which won't result in any discernible effect and just waste your time and persuade you that "this isn't effective".

"Habanero
Habanero peppers are among the most capsaicin-rich chilies that are commonly available. A 2006 study published in the "Journal of Environmental Science and Health" found that Capsicum chinense, the genetic species habanero peppers are a part of, have the highest concentrations of capsaicin when compared to other peppers from the genus Capsicum. The Chile Pepper Institute reports that the average spice of an orange habanero is 210,000 Scoville units and the red habanero is 150,000 units. However, habanero chilies can sometimes exceed 300,000 units."

Which Peppers Are High in Capsaicin? | Livestrong.com

Just food for thought. I tried other peppers before habaneros, and I didn't experience anything noteworthy.

All the best.

Stay with me here...I had the most positive experience when I consumed a chipotle tomatillo sauce. Instant brain activity and stomach warmth. I tried making my own jalapeño soup but found that it was much too spicy and I got no brain pleasure or stomach satiation. The chipotle sauce had a much redder and obviously pepper taste to it, so I’m assuming the content of the capsaicin was in much higher content compared to my low grade jalapeño soup, in which I was only able to place one jalapeño before searing my mouth with spice.

The problem is, if jalapeños are much too hot for me, there is zero chance I’ll be able to handle habanero! Now, the chipotle sauce was made from the tomatillo pepper, so I’m faced with either recreating the sauce myself from scratch or placing some batch orders from chipotle... now, my take of this analysis is that there perhaps is something separate from the capsaicin that gives me positive effects, because if capsaicin is what gives the spicy flavor and brain activity, but I’m unable to handle the jalapeño, but I can handle loads of tomatillo, which is lower in capsaicin, but I have more of a positive effect from the tomatillo, than there must be something else. There also could be something unique to the tomatillo or the sauce preparation that allows me to handle higher quantities of capsaicin and not have such intense spicy effects in my mouth... quite the problem, but I do know that there is something to peppers that are quite magical indeed! What say you @jzeno?

 

[boris]

I thought he drank much more milk, but it does seem like he drinks 2 to 4 qt per day, which is not unreasonable.

What is unreasonable to me is that he doesn't eat any starches. That just seems crazy to me. Others will disagree but that is my opinion. And to not eat any starches and drink all that liquid sounds like a disaster in the wintertime.

Potatoes are good and no one ever will change my opinion about it, I eat them and warms me up instantly, specially in winter.

Rice I found its good if you need quick extra energy and is digested well for most people, if you are sedentary and sick, probably not the best choice.

I learnt to don't be dogmatic about food after keto and carnivore, even if I agree with most Peat ideas, I will eat like a normal person and foods that agree with me.

Quote from Peat :
"among vegetables, it happens that the potato protein is the only one that ranks up there with the animal proteins, so that's even better than egg protein. but the milk, for example, and cheese and eggs and potato, are the high quality proteins and you should have around 80 grams of good protein per day. If you don't get enough sugar or starch in your diet, then you're going to use some of your protein for energy, so that impairs your liver function by starving it for protein."

It's not about copying Peat to a tee. He just says to avoid starch if you have gut problems I think.

more quotes from him:

"Until your metabolic rate is higher, 80 to 100 grams would be better. Replacing it with sugar, or very well cooked starch, would support thyroid function."

"Potatoes are the only vegetable protein which is of quality equal to egg yolk. It's actually a little higher in quality because it contains precursors to the essential amino acids; it has more protein in effect than it actually has in substance. And people misjudge potatoes because they are given as 2 to 4%, because wet potatoes are measured, where beans are measured in the dry state and have 40% protein, but...you have to divide the bean protein by 10 to make it equivalent to potatoes."

“Two pounds of well-cooked mashed potato has the protein value similar to a liter of milk, about 33 grams of protein. A person would be able to live for a long time on two or three liters of either milk or 4-6 pounds of potatoes per day. The milk drinker would eventually need to supplement iron, the potato eaters would need to supplement vitamin A, possibly B12, but both of them are nearly perfect foods.”

Narouz asks: "How many grams of cooked starchy food(old potatoes,plantains) do you think is safe in the diet?"

"There isn't enough information to judge, but a fair part of the carbohydrate should be in the form of sucrose, fructose, and/or lactose. If it's well cooked, and eaten with butter, it's probably safe for many people."

"If you don't get much sunlight, and during the winter, a vitamin D supplement is necessary to use the calcium effectively. Plain white rice, well cooked, with butter is o.k. The calcium, vitamin D and vitamin A will greatly improve your immunity,the colostrum wouldn't be necessary."

"Masa harina (best), white rice or oats, and brown rice. The phytic acid in the oats block absorption of much of the calcium; cooking the oats much longer than usual might improve its nutritional value."

tca300 asks: "I'm going to be moving to an area that doesn't have any good animal proteins, do you think replacing animal protein with potatoes would work because of their keto acid content? Thank you very much!"

"Yes, people in New Guinea who eat nothing but potatoes for 51 weeks of the year (and pork the other week) have been studied and found to be healthy with no signs of protein deficiency."

 

[jzeno]

@boris From the research I've done, foods high in starch are the most dense forms of energy, thus the most efficient and most reasonable ways for us to capture energy. That's why entire societies have been built upon starches (potatoes, grains, etc.) which, in the face of what Dr Peat has to say about the matter and the way he eats, makes no sense to me.

I cannot imagine getting enough calories just from the few things he eats. I would be hungry all the time. So, I eat starches and recommend them to others. Sourdough bread, well cooked potatoes, etc.

Plus, a diet devoid of starch is just anti social, in my opinion. People eat starches. How do you ever expect to join somebody for dinner? It's strange and unnatural and would only hinder life instead of making it easier or better.

So, without going into more detail, yes, some of suggestions are unreasonable to me, not all of them though. Which is why I practice some of what he suggests but with a grain of salt (figuratively speaking).

 

[boris]

I suppose you didn't read my post at all. All the quotes were in favor of starch.

 

[jzeno]

@Runenight201 Nice! I say eat habaneros and just get used to it. You need a healthy dose of capsaicin of which Hs will provide.

I can eat habaneros raw with milk. Sometimes it sucks (very spicy), but it all subsides in a matter of minutes.

I say work your way up and try habaneros. Have milk on hand. Be a man. Don't worry about it and just deal with it. In 15 minutes you'll be fine.

 

[redsun]

@boris From the research I've done, foods high in starch are the most dense forms of energy, thus the most efficient and most reasonable ways for us to capture energy. That's why entire societies have been built upon starches (potatoes, grains, etc.) which, in the face of what Dr Peat has to say about the matter and the way he eats, makes no sense to me.

I cannot imagine getting enough calories just from the few things he eats. I would be hungry all the time. So, I eat starches and recommend them to others. Sourdough bread, well cooked potatoes, etc.

Plus, a diet devoid of starch is just anti social, in my opinion. People eat starches. How do you ever expect to join somebody for dinner? It's strange and unnatural and would only hinder life instead of making it easier or better.

So, without going into more detail, yes, some of suggestions are unreasonable to me, not all of them though. Which is why I practice some of what he suggests but with a grain of salt (figuratively speaking).

Peat uses thyroid which helps reduce energy requirements by increasing efficiency of using energy. More efficient means less calories "wasted". I am not necessarily disagreeing about starches. But calorie wise without starch it is doable. The diet would consist of fatty proteins(meat, full fat dairy, eggs, all have plenty of fat aka calories) plus sugars from fruit, honey. Of course naturally you would end up eating more fat for calories as it becomes impractical for most people to pound down tons of fruit and fruit juices for calories(not too mention too much liquids cause problems). Peat doesn't eat like this I'm pretty sure as he eats much more sugars and less fats but theoretically its easily doable without starch if you don't mind using animal fats for calories as well.

 

[jzeno]

@boris No, I did. I was just making my case against Peat's weird ideas, and practices, not what you posted.

I'm mostly concerned with what Ray Peat does himself because that obviously has the biggest effect on other people, like OP. They think, Peat's a genius so just do what he does, which obviously has it's flaws but I can understand the idea. It's easy to do that than take time and figure out what works best.

 

[Runenight201]

@Runenight201 Nice! I say eat habaneros and just get used to it. You need a healthy dose of capsaicin of which Hs will provide.

I can eat habaneros raw with milk. Sometimes it sucks (very spicy), but it all subsides in a matter of minutes.

I say work your way up and try habaneros. Have milk on hand. Be a man. Don't worry about it and just deal with it. In 15 minutes you'll be fine.

Reminds me of a time in school where I had traveled to Tennessee for a formal dance. In an attempt to impress my date and friends, I decided to order the spiciest chicken on the menu, which they had thoroughly warned to not be for the faint of heart... liquor always makes one more confident than they should be, especially at that coming of age of the early 20s!

What followed was the worst 20 minutes of my life, filled with genuine tears and an immediate regret for even being conscious at that point in time. Top 3 worst experience of my life, although I must have had it pretty easy if that’s the case! I wanted to black out. Experience anything but that searing pain and fire that my mouth felt. No amount of sprite could extinguish the pain, and of course the restaurant had no milk!

In any regards, I learned to respect the spice. Perhaps there is a way to get the anti-depressant property of the capsaicin without having to experience such hellish conditions. It happened with the tomatillo sauce after all... maybe the anti-depressant effect comes from the fact that it’s such an intense experience that it literally forces one to feel alive. Kind of like how freezing water shocks the body into an awake and alert state. It’s so far from the norm of every day experience that it kicks one’s derrière out of the rut and into life itself!

 

[GreekDemiGod]

As I've said before, my sleep has been suffering since peating. That's when I increased my coffee intake by a lot.
Before peating, I could handle 2 cups of black coffee per day at most. On peating, I was drinking up to 5 cups of sugard coffee / day. It sometimes give me extra anxiety.
Thinking maybe my liver is not yeat ready for this, and it's detrimental to my sleep.

Also, started drinking Red Bull a few times per week, sometimes at midnight when clubbing. Surely drinking it that late at night is bound to keep the adrenaline system up at night.

@jzeno I didn't found habanero in my local supermarkets, only jalapenos. Would daily jalapenos be worth trying?

 

[S-VV]

Morning coffee increases the adenosine (P2Y) receptor density, which would make you more sleepy at night. At least, thats my understanding.

Caffeine has a half-life of 5-6 hours, so taking a cup of coffee at 6pm is the same as taking half a cup at 12pm. Striking!

 

[ExCarniv]

Peat uses thyroid which helps reduce energy requirements by increasing efficiency of using energy. More efficient means less calories "wasted". I am not necessarily disagreeing about starches. But calorie wise without starch it is doable. The diet would consist of fatty proteins(meat, full fat dairy, eggs, all have plenty of fat aka calories) plus sugars from fruit, honey. Of course naturally you would end up eating more fat for calories as it becomes impractical for most people to pound down tons of fruit and fruit juices for calories(not too mention too much liquids cause problems). Peat doesn't eat like this I'm pretty sure as he eats much more sugars and less fats but theoretically its easily doable without starch if you don't mind using animal fats for calories as well.

High fat, high sugar? Doesn't seems appealing at all, Ribeyes with honey? Pretty weird.

Lean steak and mashed potatoes, White fish/shellfish with rice, fruits with low fat cheese, eggs in the morning with orange juice, jello made of fruit juice, gluten free pancakes with maple syrup or "dulce de leche", chocolate milk ,oyster soup, lean ground beef bowl with white rice and well cooked fruit vegetables like red bell peppers, zucchini with chicken broth on top etc

 

[redsun]

High fat, high sugar? Doesn't seems appealing at all, Ribeyes with honey? Pretty weird.

Lean steak and mashed potatoes, White fish/shellfish with rice, fruits with low fat cheese, eggs in the morning with orange juice, jello made of fruit juice, gluten free pancakes with maple syrup or "dulce de leche", chocolate milk ,oyster soup, lean ground beef bowl with white rice and well cooked fruit vegetables like red bell peppers, zucchini with chicken broth on top etc

True, and like I said I didnt disagree with starches playing a vital role. But it would be more like ribeye with milk and honey + yogurt or fruit or something like that. Or eggs with cheese and some fruit. It would be very animal product based. Not ideal especially in our culture that is pretty big on starch but doable.

I also definitely find steak and potatoes more appetizing then steak and fruit or something like that. But for someone who has to stop eating starch at least temporarily there are ways to go about it.

 

[milkboi]

As I've said before, my sleep has been suffering since peating. That's when I increased my coffee intake by a lot.
Before peating, I could handle 2 cups of black coffee per day at most. On peating, I was drinking up to 5 cups of sugard coffee / day. It sometimes give me extra anxiety.
Thinking maybe my liver is not yeat ready for this, and it's detrimental to my sleep.

Also, started drinking Red Bull a few times per week, sometimes at midnight when clubbing. Surely drinking it that late at night is bound to keep the adrenaline system up at night.

@jzeno I didn't found habanero in my local supermarkets, only jalapenos. Would daily jalapenos be worth trying?

Yeah, I tapered down my coffee use from something like 12 cups to a still respectable 6 cups. I think that was a good move for me, overall more calm energy.

Also man, if you aren't feeling well, why the f do you hang out at a night club? I don't go out anymore since my health became my No. 1 priority, and I don't miss it. Even when I'm healthy (slowly getting there) I can't imagine going clubing anymore, as it's so counterproductive for both vitality and productivity.

 

[jzeno]

@Runenight201 Habaneros aren't that hot. What you ate was likely spiced by extract, which is how you achieve such concentrated levels of spiciness.

Try a baby one and get over it. Nbd.

 

[jzeno]

@GreekDemiGod

Like I said before, no. Why? The amount of jalapenos you would need to eat in order to achieve similar levels of capsaicin would be way too much jalapenos. Just two Habaneros per day is all you need. Do some due diligence and look a little bit harder. If you can't find them, then you'll have to be resourceful. Maybe buy some online. But I'm almost certain if you do a little digging, you will find a place that carries all sorts of stuff like that. Spicy food is a huge market all over the world.