Health keeps declining - adverse effects from many "Peaty" supplements?

baccheion

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Jun 25, 2017
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Maybe you have an infection?

Ever tried the potato diet? 12-15 lbs russet potatoes as needed. Minimum amount of fat-soluble vitamins and B12 1x/week. Sustained-release melatonin (eg, REMfresh) and sustained-release or topical DHEA. Minimum effective dose in both cases.
 
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Mar 10, 2021
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@Rinse & rePeat your insight is so valuable
I am with you dlind70, get rid of ALL suppliments. I posted something earlier, in another thread, that Ray Peat said about suppliments causing imbalances in other places, and the OP is taking so many! The charcoal alone is known to cause blockages and Ray Peat warns about not using it for that reason. A liquid diet for a few days would benefit the OP. I would also do what RP has suggested and take digestive enzymes on an empty stomach a couple of times a day. I have been sharing in the forum my positive experiences with artichoke hearts, and the OP could benefit from them too right now. The bitter aspect of them are great for stimulating bile production. Below is my e-mail to him on artichoke hearts. I think ProstateProblem should give an idea as to what his daily/weekly diet consists of to give us more insight.


Hello again Dr. Peat!

I have been finding artichoke hearts to be of great value in keeping my digestion moving. I have them drizzled with a little olive oil and liquid coconut oil. I know the bitter aspect of them is in part why they have been effective, but I am also reading studies that they also have an antibiotic effect. Is there any downside to them that you know if?

"They have broad antibiotic and anticancer effects, I don’t know of any harm from them." -Ray
 

Bart1

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May 21, 2018
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@ProstateProblem Have you ever done a complete iron panel ? Your issues are a lot like mine. Liver iron overload is associated with elevated SHBG, for instance:


I myself have hemochromatosis and I had this issue for a long time. I think Tudca brought it down, but not sure, I did multiple things.
 

Matestube

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TLDR: many Peat-approved supplements make my health problems worse. Can you help me to understand why?

Dear all,

I have been a lurker on this forum for quite a while and have now decided to register to ask you for help.

I am a mid-30's male. Around age 16, my health suddenly started declining. This decline was slow, but steady over the years.
At age 30, I discovered the teachings of Ray Peat.
By implementing his dietary principles, I have managed to partially recover my health.
In particular, I have improved my body temperature , my digestion and my sleep.
However, the improvements I have made are not enough to feel healthy. (For instance, my temperature went from 36.3°C to 36.6°C, bloating after meals disappeared but I still have steatorrhea and intolerance to many food additives).

In addition, I have other symptoms that keep getting worse.

My main problems are the following:
- insufficient deep and refreshing sleep; I sleep but I wake up easily and I don't feel refreshed
- intolerance to food additives (many give me insomnia)
- intolerance to any minor stress; this is starting to severely interfere with my job
- intolerance to physical exercise; even a couple sets of light weight lifting in the morning will cause insomnia at night
- anhedonia
- inability to focus; again, this is starting to severely interfere with my job
- irritability
- low libido, erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation
- prostate swelling (pressure and pain in my groin area, frequent and sudden urge to urinate, incomplete voiding). This one in particular concerns me a lot since both my father and grandfather have been diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer and have greatly suffered through the barbaric standard medical treatments.

Of course, I have consulted many conventional (general practitioners, gastroenterologists, urologists, endocrinologists) and alternative practitioners (orthomolecular practitioners, homeopaths, accupuncturists, osteopaths, applied kinesiologists, reiki practitioners) over the years, without any result.
Pretty much all of them have told me that I suffer from "stress", although none has ever been able to point out where this stress comes from.

Over the years, I have also tried many supplements to address my problems. Most, if not all, have made my problems worse.

Through the articles of Ray Peat and this forum, I have discovered that some supplements are not healthy at all (fish oil, SAMe, melatonin, ascorbic acid, St. John's wort).

However, each of the following supplements that seem to be approved on this forum also worsen all of the symptoms I have mentioned above:
- coconut oil & MCT oil
- vitamin A
- vitamin D
- vitamin K
- taurine
- ursodeoxycholic acid
- activated charcoal
This worsening is near instantly, is severe, and happens at low doses already (for instance a single dose of 1000 IU of vitamin D).

In addition, I react poorly to all of the following "Peaty" supplements and foods, albeit in a less dramatic way:
- coffee
- aspirin
- gelatin, collagen powder & home-made bone broth
- white button mushrooms
- pyrucet
- natural dessicated thyroid
- pregnenolone
- DHEA
- testosterone
- anything containing DMSO

I have tried most, if not all, of the above products in isolation, when well fed and from various manufacturers, without any change in outcome
I have been trying for a long time to find a common ground for my reaction to these supplements and foods, but I cannot find one.

Therefore my question to this forum: can you help me to better understand the root of my health problems?
I would be very grateful for any tip that can point me in the right direction.
The issues you are citing are almost entirely caused by :
Coffee
Pregnenolone

Quit those two and reassess.
 

Motorneuron

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Jan 29, 2021
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444
The issues you are citing are almost entirely caused by :
Coffee
Pregnenolone

Quit those two and reassess.

Can you explain it better ? How would coffee directly make problems worse? which of its active ingredients? or maybe its acidity?
 

frannybananny

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Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
703
Reporting back on this.

I can now say that applying hot packs to my liver are, drinking hot water and taking cholagogues all worsen my symptoms and give me a sensation of pressure in the upper right quadrant of the abdomen.

Conversely, buscopan, which relaxes the sphincter of Oddi and is part of the standard treatment for biliary colics, improves all of my symptoms.

Therefore, I think that it is a reasonable conclusion that I suffer from a partial functional blockage of the bile ducts, which in turn affects my digestion and liver function.

Obviously, buscopan is not a suitable long term solution since it slows down digestion and reduces bile flow and bile salt excretion.

I have started taking a daily magnesium supplement to help with the relaxation of the sphincter of Oddi and will continue with the hot packs, hot drinks and cholagogues.

Does anyone know a (preferably European) web shop where I can buy good quality Chanca Piedra?
You've mentioned biliary sludge and I know you have tried UDCA.... have you tried TUDCA? I have used it from time to time with great success on my digestive system. This article is very reassuring and educational.. How Bile Salts Work + 9 Reasons You Need Them

If you still have an aversion to bile salts you might try taking Pancreatin. I have been taking it on and off since I was young 30's and it always helps me feel better, supports the pancreas and digestion, etc. and helps to absorb nutrients and supplements. Papain or chewable papaya enzymes can be very helpful also and quite delicious.
Please read about the benefits of Pancreatic enzymes... The Vital Digestive Aides You Need
 

frannybananny

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
703
I am with you dlind70, get rid of ALL suppliments. I posted something earlier, in another thread, that Ray Peat said about suppliments causing imbalances in other places, and the OP is taking so many! The charcoal alone is known to cause blockages and Ray Peat warns about not using it for that reason. A liquid diet for a few days would benefit the OP. I would also do what RP has suggested and take digestive enzymes on an empty stomach a couple of times a day. I have been sharing in the forum my positive experiences with artichoke hearts, and the OP could benefit from them too right now. The bitter aspect of them are great for stimulating bile production. Below is my e-mail to him on artichoke hearts. I think ProstateProblem should give an idea as to what his daily/weekly diet consists of to give us more insight.


Hello again Dr. Peat!

I have been finding artichoke hearts to be of great value in keeping my digestion moving. I have them drizzled with a little olive oil and liquid coconut oil. I know the bitter aspect of them is in part why they have been effective, but I am also reading studies that they also have an antibiotic effect. Is there any downside to them that you know if?

"They have broad antibiotic and anticancer effects, I don’t know of any harm from them." -Ray
The OP said he has an intolerance to artichokes and they cause him distress. Maybe you didn't see that in his original post.
 
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Messages
21,494
The OP said he has an intolerance to artichokes and they cause him distress. Maybe you didn't see that in his original post.
This thread is as much for the OP as it is for others, and though I did oversee the artichoke distress, it is nevertheless good for others.
 

catharsis

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Jan 26, 2017
Messages
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A place that needs more coconuts and sun
So OP... First off, I don't wish these symptoms on my worst enemy, let alone a fellow peater. These sounds terrible to live through and the hypersensitivity to stress is even worse. I hope you can find a solution.

I would first lower your belief or focus on the lab results. Intercellular levels of hormones can often be higher and serum levels can be misleading. The focus you should cultivate, rather, is trying to treat symptoms. For example, I would not directly rule out high estrogen just due to your lab results: your puberty ended early, you are a bit irritable, you have PE and low libido, and you have prostate inflammation. These symptoms sound, to me, to be excess estrogen. Couple that with a problematic liver and it could be a hypothesis.

I agree with the previous posters on focusing on your liver's function then expand outward to different organs. You won't be able to detox effectively and metabolize hormones (and excrete them) if your liver is not functioning well.

Have you tried the carrot salad with small amounts of coconut oil? or maybe mushrooms? Just a little so you can excrete some of that toxic bile from your body. The digestives, bitterants, and possibly a coffee enema will help with bile flow. An elimination diet coupled with a lot of insoluble fiber should help things move again. (if you notice, all of the supplements you react strongly against, all of them are dependent on liver function, bile saponifying fats or fat-soluble vitamins, or digestion)

After that, some of the supplements you have taken could cause estrogen to be released from the cell. This can cause a transitory worsening of symptoms. If your liver is functioning again, it will be able to metabolize and excrete the excess estrogen. Even though SHBG is high, it can still bind to its receptor and allow hormones to enter the cell; your labs I don't think tell you how much of each hormone is bound to SHBG, only the levels of free hormones.

Finally, small amounts of each supplement (or food supplement for that matter) can help. I would stick to food for right now as it seems your body is too sensitive for anything else right now; maybe sip a little gelatin broth or eat a little bit of carrot everyday until your liver function improves (in addition to the bitterants). Good luck.
 

Dr. B

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Mar 16, 2021
Messages
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yeah i know, but i largely depends on his free t. generally if someone has good insulin sensitivity/low fasting insulin and good liver function, yet he, for whatever reason, doesn't produce much steroid hormones it results in a hormonal profile of: high/average total t, high shbg, low free t, low estradiol. he has low pregnenolone. free test here is crucial to actually know what's happening IMO
If the hormones are mismatched out of proportion what can you do? Isnt diet with some supps the only way to resolve things since taking testosterone directly can just aromatize causing many issues
 

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