Too young to be feeling this bad...what next?

[Perry Staltic]

Hmmm probably two years ago but has gotten even worse in the last 6 months. Good to reflect on

So around the time of the lockdowns?

 

[curious_anthro]

So around the time of the lockdowns?

Yes. But that is also about the time I discovered the pro-metabolic space, quit birth control, adjusted my diet and stopped excessive HIT cardio.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Yes. But that is also about the time I discovered the pro-metabolic space, quit birth control, adjusted my diet and stopped excessive HIT cardio.

A lot of changes all at once. If it was me, I'd return to the things I could to see if that corrects the problem, and then go from there. Obviously you can't do everything like HIT cardio. What does "discovered the pro-metabolic space" mean?

 

[mostlylurking]

Sorry for the confusion. I use 400mg of topical Natpro progesterone cream daily. If topical absorption is 20% then that would equate to 80mg absorbed. I would have to use a crap ton of Progest-e to get that much and I also think I might be benefitting from topical use due to the other metabolites I am getting from 5-AR enzymes in the skin as Georgi hypothesized? But I don't know I just go on how I feel.

400mg of topical Natpro progesterone = 40mg of progesterone itself in a cream base of other stuff. 40mg of progesterone with a 20% absorption rate = 8mg, not 80mg. 8mg is not very much. If you were taking Progest-e orally (rubbed into the gums) that is less than 3 drops. 3 drops is the suggested starting dose. I use a large English pea size glob.

free information about progesterone from Ray Peat:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

Dunno. Feels like chicken/egg situation: take thyroid to speed up your metabolism and transit time and help heal your gut by not allowing things to ferment BUT be careful of taking thyroid if you have a bad gut and are not absorbing the nutrients that are going to be used up even faster if your metabolism is boosted..

You could try improving your metabolism via thiamine. Thiamine + magnesium heals the gut. It could solve at least some of your problem.

 

[sweetpeat]

Is this the product you're using?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk1DQXvrmQk

According to this, you would need 8 pumps to reach 400mg. Seems like it would get used up pretty fast? But I don't know how many pumps per bottle.

 

[Adf]

Hi, there's already 5 pages of good suggestions here so I'll try keep things brief. Just some topics and questions to think about, they don't need answering..

- Potassium, are you getting enough? Most people are deficient and require much more potassium. Sodium depletes potassium as they compete for the same channels, and sodium is put in everything these days. You might have to ignore sodium completely (since its in most things already) and supplement potassium just to maintain a good sodium/potassium balance.

- Something I doubt has been mentioned here yet could have some impact.. EMF or electromagnetic frequencies. Do you live close to a cell tower? Do you have a lot of electronic devices in your bedroom? Do you sleep with your phone next to you? Does your house use a Smart Meter? How many wi-fi devices do you have in your house? All these things can disrupt your body functions.

Lately I've become a huge fan of K-Water or PTB (Potassium Taurine Bicarbonate) water. One heaped teaspoon each of potassium bi-carb and taurine in a 1L bottle of water a day (along with an EAA powder to add flavor) This and getting adequate sleep has been the biggest factor for reducing hypothyroid symptoms I get. I've taken pregnenolone, DHEA, androsterone, mega dosing thiamine and vit A, tonnes of multivitamins and many more supplements over the years. The daily K-Water and limiting caffeine has had the single largest impact on me.

Adequate sleep means having zero caffeine after 12pm. Even small amounts of caffeine in your system might disrupt your deep and restful sleep, even if you fall asleep quickly and sleep a full 8 hours, any caffeine in your system may still be blocking adenosine receptors.

 

[PeskyPeater]

@PeskyPeater thanks for sharing those resources about thyroid. I have read Danny's article. Brilliant stuff. But again, I feel like where my health is currently, it could just make things worse in terms of nutrient/mineral deficiencies.

Dunno. Feels like chicken/egg situation: take thyroid to speed up your metabolism and transit time and help heal your gut by not allowing things to ferment BUT be careful of taking thyroid if you have a bad gut and are not absorbing the nutrients that are going to be used up even faster if your metabolism is boosted...

it's not really a chicken or egg paradox when it comes to gut health.
thyroid function is a like a basic requirement, you need it functioning well to have good enzyme expressions in the gut to be able to process foods. Low thyroid function is the cause of leaky gut.
You have to break the paradox.
Dr Peat said to Eat food first for thyroid function, but if that doesn't cut it, you can use thyroid medicine.

 

[Korven]

it's not really a chicken or egg paradox when it comes to gut health.
thyroid function is a like a basic requirement, you need it functioning well to have good enzyme expressions in the gut to be able to process foods. Low thyroid function is the cause of leaky gut.
You have to break the paradox.
Dr Peat said to Eat food first for thyroid function, but if that doesn't cut it, you can use thyroid medicine.

I agree, I think the risk of "taking thyroid → increased metabolism → nutrient deficiencies" is overblown. If anything addressing a hypothyroid state would mean better, more robust digestion and retention of nutrients, vitamins, minerals.

Thyroid supplementation is a great tool to break the vicious cycle of hypothyroidism. It's not a panacea but definitely worth experimenting with if one is suffering from obvious signs and symptoms of low metabolism. But it can be a little tricky to get right and if I did it again I would do it under the guidance of either a doctor or someone like Danny Roddy.

 

[PeskyPeater]

I agree, I think the risk of "taking thyroid → increased metabolism → nutrient deficiencies" is overblown. If anything addressing a hypothyroid state would mean better, more robust digestion and retention of nutrients, vitamins, minerals.

Thyroid supplementation is a great tool to break the vicious cycle of hypothyroidism. It's not a panacea but definitely worth experimenting with if one is suffering from obvious signs and symptoms of low metabolism. But it can be a little tricky to get right and if I did it again I would do it under the guidance of either a doctor or someone like Danny Roddy.

Thanks for the confirmation. yeah I've made beginner mistakes by upping t4 too quickly, little to overenthusiastic hehe

It sucks when having taken too much T4, you get hypo symptoms, quickly out of breath, weak muscles, reduced peristalsis.
T4 converts to reverse T3 and blocks the thyroid, luckily the rT3 effects subside fairly quickly after 3 hours or so. And the antidote is t3, so when that happens just take some T3 to counter the rT3.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Can't remember off the top of my head exactly what he said but something to do with the high concentration of 5-AR enzyme in the skin that produces progesterone metabolites like allopregnenolone.

My favorite way to support Allopregnanolone and other steroids right now is PEA. I think it can help you with damage from birth control very well and control your estrogen symptoms better than PROG alone

Abstract​

We investigated the involvement of de novo neurosteroid synthesis in the mechanisms underlying the analgesic and antihyperalgesic effects of N-palmitoylethanolamine (PEA) in two models of acute and persistent pain, the formalin test and carrageenan-induced paw edema. The pivotal role of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR)-α in the antinocifensive effect of PEA was confirmed by the lack of this effect in PPAR-α-null mice. PEA antinociceptive activity was partially reduced when the animals were treated with aminoglutethimide or finasteride, implying that de novo neurosteroid synthesis is involved in the effect of PEA. Accordingly, in the spinal cord, the allopregnanolone (ALLO) levels were increased by PEA treatment both in formalin- and carrageenan-exposed mice, as revealed by gas chromatography–mass spectrometry. In agreement with those data, in both pain models, PEA administration in challenged mice specifically restored the expression of two proteins involved in neurosteroidogenensis, the steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) and cytochrome P450 side-chain cleavage (P450scc) in the ipsilateral horns of spinal cord, without affecting their expression in the contralateral side. These results provide new information about the involvement of de novo neurosteroid synthesis in the modulation of pain behavior by PEA. Implication of allopregnanolone in the antinociceptive effect of N-palmitoylethanolamide in acute or persistent pain

One important risk factor for the development of asthma is allergen sensitization. Recent increasing evidence suggests a prominent role of mast cells in asthma pathophysiology. Since Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA), an endogenous lipid mediator chemically related to – and co-released with- the endocannabinoid anandamide, behaves as a local autacoid down-regulator of mast cell activation and inflammation, we explored the possible contribution of PEA in allergic sensitization, by using ovalbumin (OVA) as sensitizing agent in the mouse. PEA levels were dramatically reduced in the bronchi of OVA-treated animals. This effect was coupled to a significant up-regulation of CB2 and GPR55 receptors, two of the proposed molecular PEA targets, in bronchi harvested from allergen-sensitized mice. PEA supplementation (10 mg/kg, 15 min before each allergen exposure) prevented OVA-induced bronchial hyperreactivity, but it did not affect IgE plasma increase. On the other hand, PEA abrogated allergen-induced cell recruitment as well as pulmonary inflammation. Evaluation of pulmonary sections evidenced a significant inhibitory action of PEA on pulmonary mast cell recruitment and degranulation, an effect coupled to a reduction of leukotriene C4 production. These findings demonstrate that allergen sensitization negatively affects PEA bronchial levels and suggest that its supplementation has the potential to prevent the development of asthma-like features. Palmitoylethanolamide Supplementation during Sensitization Prevents Airway Allergic Symptoms in the Mouse | Semantic Scholar

 

[curious_anthro]

@mostlylurking the video @sweetpeat posted is the cream I use.

From the website I purchase from: "Each press of the pump will dispense 1.5ml of cream containing 50mg of bio-identical progesterone". I use 8 pumps a day max, sometimes I can get away with less. I have been trying to take a week or so off each month to allow for menstruation so I am using about two bottles a month. Still very expensive but for now the only thing bringing some form of relief. Will try thiamine again I think... any reccs for sublingual supplement?

 

[ursidae]

if posture is poor, sleep is not restorative and you've had to wear braces for several years, your difficulty breathing could have to do with malocclusion. Poor craniofacial development can lead to obstruction of the upper airways which can result in sleep apnea

 

[curious_anthro]

@PeskyPeater @Korven I appreciate your thoughts, perhaps you are right on breaking the cycle! I have been tempted many times to work with Keith Littlewood because he is UK based again, just need to finish my PhD and get a real job to financially support that LOL

My favorite way to support Allopregnanolone and other steroids right now is PEA. I think it can help you with damage from birth control very well and control your estrogen symptoms better than PROG alone

Interesting. Never heard of this. Any thoughts on Gonadin for the steroid optimization effect?

 

[curious_anthro]

if posture is poor, sleep is not restorative and you've had to wear braces for several years, your difficulty breathing could have to do with malocclusion. Poor craniofacial development can lead to obstruction of the upper airways which can result in sleep apnea

Definitely, the 8 adult teeth I have had to have pulled over the course of my life can confirm lol but how do even go about fixing that? Mouth taping?

 

[PeskyPeater]

@PeskyPeater @Korven I appreciate your thoughts, perhaps you are right on breaking the cycle! I have been tempted many times to work with Keith Littlewood because he is UK based again, just need to finish my PhD and get a real job to financially support that LOL

Broda barnes method is what I use and a thermometer

Interesting. Never heard of this. Any thoughts on Gonadin for the steroid optimization effect?

Gonadin seems to be androgenic for men, it contain diosgenin that can be converted by gutmicrobes to certain metabolites that you do not want.

 

[Peatful]

The OP needs to break the stress cycle.
Not add to it with anything that cannot be handled metabolically- and in turn hormonally.



“In the absence of good metabolism. Anything can be dangerous.” - Peat paraphrased

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking the video @sweetpeat posted is the cream I use.

From the website I purchase from: "Each press of the pump will dispense 1.5ml of cream containing 50mg of bio-identical progesterone". I use 8 pumps a day max, sometimes I can get away with less. I have been trying to take a week or so off each month to allow for menstruation so I am using about two bottles a month. Still very expensive but for now the only thing bringing some form of relief. Will try thiamine again I think... any reccs for sublingual supplement?

The book I'd like to recommend is Parkinson's and the B1 Therapy. In addition to the name of the sublingual thiamine (and the source), the book also gives detailed instructions on how to take it so it will work. It's a short easy read, less than 100 pages, less than $10.00. All the proceeds go to research. The multiple personal reports from people telling how they worked out their own personal optimal dosage of thiamine and the symptoms resolved by it were extremely helpful.

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking the video @sweetpeat posted is the cream I use.

From the website I purchase from: "Each press of the pump will dispense 1.5ml of cream containing 50mg of bio-identical progesterone". I use 8 pumps a day max, sometimes I can get away with less. I have been trying to take a week or so off each month to allow for menstruation so I am using about two bottles a month. Still very expensive but for now the only thing bringing some form of relief. Will try thiamine again I think... any reccs for sublingual supplement?

Thanks for the clarification. I use a mix identical to Progest-e. I use a large English pea sized blat rubbed into the gums and a second one mixed with equal parts coconut oil and inserted vaginally. It works out to about 40mg daily. It works for me.

 

[Jennifer]

I am probably not eating enough still but if I eat anymore than 1800cals a day I instantly pack on the pounds.

I haven't read through the entire thread yet so my apologies if this has already been asked, but if weight gain weren't a concern, would your appetite lead you to consume more than 1800 calories a day?

 

[curious_anthro]

I haven't read through the entire thread yet so my apologies if this has already been asked, but if weight gain weren't a concern, would your appetite lead you to consume more than 1800 calories a day?

Perhaps a little bit, but I am fairly satiated at that amount. Considering I spent years on 1200 cals a day, its a lot of food for me!