Too young to be feeling this bad...what next?

[curious_anthro]

I am 29 years old and as dramatic as it sounds some days I feel like I am twice my age, one foot in the grave. I know many people on here can relate (and are probably suffering more than me) but I feel so helpless and lost on what I should do next. I have a beautiful marriage, faith, friends, career and am very privileged to live where I do and have access to resources like food, water, nature... but my symptoms steal SO much of my enjoyment and zeal for life. Really they are ruining so much of what I have going for me. I have spent (wasted) so much on supplements and private consultations/testing without getting anywhere- other than a lot worse- but I do not accept that I will feel this way forever- I will not accept defeat.

I of course have a history of bodily abuse via excessive exercise, childhood trauma, antibiotic overuse (for acne), long-term birth control use, high stress job (I am an academic) and dabbled in the low carb/keto/fasting and seed cycling world...so its not like I don't have things to blame, but still 3 years in of nourishing/honouring my metabolism and feeling worse by the day.

If anyone could offer advice on what to explore next or perhaps point out something I am missing, I would deeply appreciate it.. I will probably regret posting such a long, TMI kind of post later but its in the very least cathartic...

Symptoms/conditions:
-chronic fatigue - really debilitating week before and after period
-cycles all over the place - not ovulating as far as I can tell and cycle lengths and timing always varied
-pcos- diagnosed at 23 after 11 years of hormonal birth control use via intravaginal ultrasound and blood test
-gaining weight/inability to lose it- I was always thin, even a bit underweight until I came off the pill and now I am about 20lbs overweight no matter how much or little I eat
-insomnia- trouble falling and staying asleep
-anxiety- often feel breathless, was diagnosed once with "air hunger"
-chronic constipation/bloating- BM every 2-3 days
-brain fog- I used to be a very productive person, now I struggle to even focus for an hour on anything or be articulate in my speech
-acne- cystic and all over face, chest and back (my most hated symptom)
-exercise intolerance- I used to be a competitive athlete in running and crossfit...now I can barely tolerate 2-3 days of light resistance training
-heat/cold intolerance
-flu-like - this is a newer symptom that is really odd... usually after using caffeine, progesterone, aspirin and vitamin k2 I start feeling like I am coming down with something and have a sore, tight chest and throat, upset stomach and sometimes get really bad migraine

Things I have tried so far without success:
-Thiamine hcl- did nothing for me at 500mg daily
-magnesium bicarbonate and glycinate- years of supplementing at high doses (1000+mg daily) not sure if it ever helped, couldn't tell
-Niacinamide- also noticed no benefit after taking for 3 months at high doses
-B-vitamin liquid complex (metabolics)- sometimes helps with energy but also makes me feel breathless and causes headaches if I use too often
-Adrenal cocktail (jigsaw)- sometimes help with energy but not consistently
-Pau d'arco- bad breakouts and constipation worse
-spore probiotics- messed my digestion up for months after
-Oregano oil- tried for 2 weeks straight and occasional use...headaches, worse fatigue and constipation
-Charcoal- helps sometimes with bloating
-Taurine- made me super nauseated
-Lysine- felt flu-like for days after
-shilajit- made my breakouts so bad
-vitamin e - also made my breakouts very bad
-vitamin a nutrisorb- hypothyroid symptoms
-vitamin d- helped at first then made me feel worse so I stopped
-eggshell calcium- hypercalcaemia/hypothyroid symptoms
-beef liver- dessicated because I cannot stomach real stuff, made breakouts worse
-getting more sunlight and sleep- I could sleep for days anyway and more than an hour of sun makes me feel like I have a hangover

Currently using because they help a bit:
-raw carrot salad- really strict with using every day- helped initially with breakouts and constipation but kind of stopped helping as much recently
-Natpro progesterone cream - up to 400mg a day. I have tried Progest-E but couldn't get high enough dose/not convenient for high doses. Helps with sleep and mood
-aspirin- about 50-100mg daily sometimes split into two doses
-vitamin k2- 200mg daily
-cascara sagrada daily- helps with constipation a little bit but without this BM every 2-3 days goes to 3-4
-cordyceps mushroom- really helps with energy and brain fog but effects wear off in a few hours
-coffee enemas- once every 2 weeks, when constipation is very bad

Diet:
- proteins: cheese, eggs, free-range chicken, fat free greek yogurt/skyr, beef, haddock, prawns, venison, gelatin
- carbs- fruit (melon, canned peaches, mandarins, nectarines, berries), OJ, dates, potatoes or white rice 1x day, pure cane sugar, soaked oats, oat bran, sweet potatoes, maple syrup, honey, GF bread occasionally
- fats: coconut oil, lots of butter, ghee, occasional avocados

I do eat out on occasion and have things I shouldn't sometimes because I like to try and enjoy socialising every once and a while. But never have alcohol.

If you made it this far, bless you.

 

[youngsinatra]

Stop supplements.

You probably have problems with proper oxygenation, which is the most basic requirement to properly produce energy in the mitochondria.

I don‘t see a good copper source in your diet.

Do you have any copper deficiency symptoms?
Hypoxia (lack of oxygenation of the cell, leading to breathlessness, anxiety, dark circles under the eyes), low ATP (fatigue, weakness), greying of hair, hypopigmentation of the skin (pale), difficulty walking (ataxia), difficulty balancing (vertigo, dizziness), neuropathy (nerve pains), iron accumulation in the liver and brain, low catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin), low heart rate (bradycardia), elevated blood lipids, low body temperature (cold hands and feet, up to possibly Raynaud syndrome), frequently catching one cold after the other or other infections, osteoporosis and other bone/teeth issues.

A simply blood test for serum copper and ceruloplasmin can give you an answer on this.

 

[Peatful]

Your story unfortunately represents many that have come here.

The good news:
You can heal. You’re not broken.
Your body is working for you - not against you.

With that out of the way-
Are you familiar with this?

Estrogen and PCOS – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

More importantly probably this one:

Ray Peat

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Start here and lmk once you are finished.


You’ve given so much good data above; you’ve answered a lot. But i have two more clarifying questions for you.

At work
Will check back soon

 

[Peatful]

Stop supplements

Agree wholeheartedly.

YS: are you familiar with Josh Rubin?

 

[清貴杉山]

stop supps,increase copper,simpul as

 

[curious_anthro]

Your story unfortunately represents many that have come here.

The good news:
You can heal. You’re not broken.
Your body is working for you - not against you.

With that out of the way-
Are you familiar with this?

Estrogen and PCOS – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

More importantly probably this one:

Ray Peat

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Start here and lmk once you are finished.


You’ve given so much good data above; you’ve answered a lot. But i have two more clarifying questions for you.

At work
Will check back soon

Many thanks for your reply and encouragement! I have looked into those links before... in fact, I have done a ton of research on the topics (not saying I know it all of course). I often joke with my husband that I could have a PhD in my own health struggles at this point LOL I know the root of issues are likely estrogen dominance, subclinical hypothyroidism and gut dysbiosis... but it feels like a chicken/egg situation and I don't know what angle to come at it from anymore.

 

[curious_anthro]

Stop supplements.

You probably have problems with proper oxygenation, which is the most basic requirement to properly produce energy in the mitochondria.

I don‘t see a good copper source in your diet.

Do you have any copper deficiency symptoms?
Hypoxia (lack of oxygenation of the cell, leading to breathlessness, anxiety, dark circles under the eyes), low ATP (fatigue, weakness), greying of hair, hypopigmentation of the skin (pale), difficulty walking (ataxia), difficulty balancing (vertigo, dizziness), neuropathy (nerve pains), iron accumulation in the liver and brain, low catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin), low heart rate (bradycardia), elevated blood lipids, low body temperature (cold hands and feet, up to possibly Raynaud syndrome), frequently catching one cold after the other or other infections, osteoporosis and other bone/teeth issues.

A simply blood test for serum copper and ceruloplasmin can give you an answer on this.

Thank you so much for your reply.

I should have clarified that the supplements I listed under "tried without success" I am no longer taking. The only things I am taking are under "currently using".. I went about 3 months off absolutely everything and felt even worse. The progesterone, although not super sucessful, feels like the only things keeping me from falling off the edge.

I thought good sources of copper were liver, oysters and OJ? The first two I cannot do. Liver really makes my skin breakout bad and I got a very bad case of vibriosis from raw oysters that made me so sick I nearly went to the ER so I haven't had the courage to try again.

Edit: I drink OJ daily.

 

[InChristAlone]

Stop supplements.

You probably have problems with proper oxygenation, which is the most basic requirement to properly produce energy in the mitochondria.

I don‘t see a good copper source in your diet.

Do you have any copper deficiency symptoms?
Hypoxia (lack of oxygenation of the cell, leading to breathlessness, anxiety, dark circles under the eyes), low ATP (fatigue, weakness), greying of hair, hypopigmentation of the skin (pale), difficulty walking (ataxia), difficulty balancing (vertigo, dizziness), neuropathy (nerve pains), iron accumulation in the liver and brain, low catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin), low heart rate (bradycardia), elevated blood lipids, low body temperature (cold hands and feet, up to possibly Raynaud syndrome), frequently catching one cold after the other or other infections, osteoporosis and other bone/teeth issues.

A simply blood test for serum copper and ceruloplasmin can give you an answer on this.

Curious why you would suspect this with her long history of birth control use which is one of the major factors for increasing copper.

 

[curious_anthro]

Agree wholeheartedly.

YS: are you familiar with Josh Rubin?

I am yes! I have listened to a lot of his stuff and follow him on insta... partially why I quit taking a few supplements. I also have worked hard on meal frequency and eating more and doing the adrenal cocktail. I am probably not eating enough still but if I eat anymore than 1800cals a day I instantly pack on the pounds. More fat = more estrogen not to mention the depression/insecurity that accompanies it!

 

[Blossom]

I understand you’re feeling a bit discouraged but I can honestly say I feel way better at 52 than I did at 29. You’re in the right place and the most important thing is that you are trying and not giving up.

 

[aniciete]

Thank you so much for your reply.

I should have clarified that the supplements I listed under "tried without success" I am no longer taking. The only things I am taking are under "currently using".. I went about 3 months off absolutely everything and felt even worse. The progesterone, although not super sucessful, feels like the only things keeping me from falling off the edge.

I thought good sources of copper were liver, oysters and OJ? The first two I cannot do. Liver really makes my skin breakout bad and I got a very bad case of vibriosis from raw oysters that made me so sick I nearly went to the ER so I haven't had the courage to try again.

Edit: I drink OJ daily.

If anything the super high vitamin c in OJ would chelate copper

 

[curious_anthro]

I understand you’re feeling a bit discouraged but I can honestly say I feel way better at 52 than I did at 29. You’re in the right place and the most important thing is that you are trying and not giving up.

You are a true inspiration @Blossom! I really hope I can say the same one day

 

[Nik665]

I am 29 years old and as dramatic as it sounds some days I feel like I am twice my age, one foot in the grave. I know many people on here can relate (and are probably suffering more than me) but I feel so helpless and lost on what I should do next. I have a beautiful marriage, faith, friends, career and am very privileged to live where I do and have access to resources like food, water, nature... but my symptoms steal SO much of my enjoyment and zeal for life. Really they are ruining so much of what I have going for me. I have spent (wasted) so much on supplements and private consultations/testing without getting anywhere- other than a lot worse- but I do not accept that I will feel this way forever- I will not accept defeat.

I of course have a history of bodily abuse via excessive exercise, childhood trauma, antibiotic overuse (for acne), long-term birth control use, high stress job (I am an academic) and dabbled in the low carb/keto/fasting and seed cycling world...so its not like I don't have things to blame, but still 3 years in of nourishing/honouring my metabolism and feeling worse by the day.

If anyone could offer advice on what to explore next or perhaps point out something I am missing, I would deeply appreciate it.. I will probably regret posting such a long, TMI kind of post later but its in the very least cathartic...

Symptoms/conditions:
-chronic fatigue - really debilitating week before and after period
-cycles all over the place - not ovulating as far as I can tell and cycle lengths and timing always varied
-pcos- diagnosed at 23 after 11 years of hormonal birth control use via intravaginal ultrasound and blood test
-gaining weight/inability to lose it- I was always thin, even a bit underweight until I came off the pill and now I am about 20lbs overweight no matter how much or little I eat
-insomnia- trouble falling and staying asleep
-anxiety- often feel breathless, was diagnosed once with "air hunger"
-chronic constipation/bloating- BM every 2-3 days
-brain fog- I used to be a very productive person, now I struggle to even focus for an hour on anything or be articulate in my speech
-acne- cystic and all over face, chest and back (my most hated symptom)
-exercise intolerance- I used to be a competitive athlete in running and crossfit...now I can barely tolerate 2-3 days of light resistance training
-heat/cold intolerance
-flu-like - this is a newer symptom that is really odd... usually after using caffeine, progesterone, aspirin and vitamin k2 I start feeling like I am coming down with something and have a sore, tight chest and throat, upset stomach and sometimes get really bad migraine

Things I have tried so far without success:
-Thiamine hcl- did nothing for me at 500mg daily
-magnesium bicarbonate and glycinate- years of supplementing at high doses (1000+mg daily) not sure if it ever helped, couldn't tell
-Niacinamide- also noticed no benefit after taking for 3 months at high doses
-B-vitamin liquid complex (metabolics)- sometimes helps with energy but also makes me feel breathless and causes headaches if I use too often
-Adrenal cocktail (jigsaw)- sometimes help with energy but not consistently
-Pau d'arco- bad breakouts and constipation worse
-spore probiotics- messed my digestion up for months after
-Oregano oil- tried for 2 weeks straight and occasional use...headaches, worse fatigue and constipation
-Charcoal- helps sometimes with bloating
-Taurine- made me super nauseated
-Lysine- felt flu-like for days after
-shilajit- made my breakouts so bad
-vitamin e - also made my breakouts very bad
-vitamin a nutrisorb- hypothyroid symptoms
-vitamin d- helped at first then made me feel worse so I stopped
-eggshell calcium- hypercalcaemia/hypothyroid symptoms
-beef liver- dessicated because I cannot stomach real stuff, made breakouts worse
-getting more sunlight and sleep- I could sleep for days anyway and more than an hour of sun makes me feel like I have a hangover

Currently using because they help a bit:
-raw carrot salad- really strict with using every day- helped initially with breakouts and constipation but kind of stopped helping as much recently
-Natpro progesterone cream - up to 400mg a day. I have tried Progest-E but couldn't get high enough dose/not convenient for high doses. Helps with sleep and mood
-aspirin- about 50-100mg daily sometimes split into two doses
-vitamin k2- 200mg daily
-cascara sagrada daily- helps with constipation a little bit but without this BM every 2-3 days goes to 3-4
-cordyceps mushroom- really helps with energy and brain fog but effects wear off in a few hours
-coffee enemas- once every 2 weeks, when constipation is very bad

Diet:
- proteins: cheese, eggs, free-range chicken, fat free greek yogurt/skyr, beef, haddock, prawns, venison, gelatin
- carbs- fruit (melon, canned peaches, mandarins, nectarines, berries), OJ, dates, potatoes or white rice 1x day, pure cane sugar, soaked oats, oat bran, sweet potatoes, maple syrup, honey, GF bread occasionally
- fats: coconut oil, lots of butter, ghee, occasional avocados

I do eat out on occasion and have things I shouldn't sometimes because I like to try and enjoy socialising every once and a while. But never have alcohol.

If you made it this far, bless you.

what is your thyroid like

 

[curious_anthro]

Well I find it interesting that people seem to be zeroing in on copper, thanks everyone! I did kind of focus on that when I first started diving into Ray Peat via the pathway of Matt Blackburn. But I am not really sure how to increase my copper when I cannot tolerate liver or oysters. And I did stick it out with both liver/oysters (pate and cooked liver and raw oysters) for about 3-4 months with no change but maybe that wasn't long enough? I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I have some sort of hidden disease or tumour because nothing seems to work for me!

 

[curious_anthro]

what is your thyroid like

I suffer from cold hands/feet/nose and low temps/pulses... TSH is usually around 1.9 - 2.1, Free T4 and other standard thyroid panels are always "in range" when tested by doctors in the past.

I have never tried thyroid though because after reading a lot of other people's experiences and advice on here, it can makes things worse if you do not have a strong nutrition or mineral base. But then how do you do that if you aren't absorbing your food properly/transit time if slow, feels like catch 22.

 

[youngsinatra]

Thank you so much for your reply.

I should have clarified that the supplements I listed under "tried without success" I am no longer taking. The only things I am taking are under "currently using".. I went about 3 months off absolutely everything and felt even worse. The progesterone, although not super sucessful, feels like the only things keeping me from falling off the edge.

I thought good sources of copper were liver, oysters and OJ? The first two I cannot do. Liver really makes my skin breakout bad and I got a very bad case of vibriosis from raw oysters that made me so sick I nearly went to the ER so I haven't had the courage to try again.

Edit: I drink OJ daily.

Yeah liver and oysters are supposed to be rich in copper.
Liver should contain copper, but Morley Robbins said that he had ordered liver biopsy of high-quality grass-fed cattle, only then to see that it contained very low amounts of copper. Copper depletion in the soil is a real problem. Low copper in soil -> low in plants -> low in animals. And no, even though copper sulfate is sprayed on some produce, this is not the way the plant takes up and uploads the copper into it‘s matrix.

Oysters contain a lot of zinc and a good amount of copper but the high proportion of zinc in them can impair copper absorption. High regular intakes of oysters actually lead to copper deficiency in case reports.

Due to this copper depletion problem, Morley Robbins now recommends a high quality copper supplement (like copper bisglycinate) for meeting the daily requirement.
I can recommend Thorne‘s copper bisglycinate. High quality, no weird ingredients, very pure, effective, thousands of 5 star ratings.

 

[InChristAlone]

It's been known since the 70's estrogen increases copper.
"Copper level is high and zinc is low one week before the menstrual period when women are more liable to depressive disorders...Pfeiffer and Iliev reported in 1972 that estrogens raise ceruloplasmin and serum copper and lower serum zinc."

But yes it would be easy to get a ceruloplasmin and copper test thru life extension if you don't want to ask your doctor for it. I am about to buy them because I was told copper would lower my histamine intolerance but my gut says don't take copper supplements especially not without getting tested.

 

[youngsinatra]

It's been known since the 70's estrogen increases copper.
"Copper level is high and zinc is low one week before the menstrual period when women are more liable to depressive disorders...Pfeiffer and Iliev reported in 1972 that estrogens raise ceruloplasmin and serum copper and lower serum zinc."

But yes it would be easy to get a ceruloplasmin and copper test thru life extension if you don't want to ask your doctor for it. I am about to buy them because I was told copper would lower my histamine intolerance but my gut says don't take copper supplements especially not without getting tested.

Yeah, but copper increases adaptively to those higher levels under the influence of estrogen.
Copper also rises in pregnancy, always does, always will, because the child requires copper for proper growth and development. I think the body simply liberates more copper out of tissues and into the blood.

Birth control wrecks havoc on the female hormonal balance, no question, as it semi-imitates pregnancy without a baby growing in you.
Good that you are off birth control of course!

Some females feel absolutely drained after giving birth because the newborn downloaded all their minerals from them.

OP gets plenty of zinc because you said you eat plenty of beef/venison plus your diet lacks anti-nutrients that inhibit zinc absorption. (like phytates/lectins) So I wouldn‘t worry about zinc.

But @sugarbabe is right. Getting tested is probably best. I actually got my blood work done today, once again. Will receive in the next few days. (Copper, ceruloplasmin, plasma zinc, hemoglobin, ferritin…)

 

[cs3000]

One of the angles maybe, i heard before that "air hunger" happening in people with low iron stores, low iron would fit with a couple of other things too. if you look around at anemia forums a lot of ppl mention cold hands/feet. would also fit especially with you mentioning fatigue getting worse after periods, points to it more if they are commonly heavy also (but you also mentioned week before so idk) and also exercise intolerance

Some ppl get symptoms as they're approaching anemia without hemoglobin dropping under range yet. Do you know your ferritin level & transferrin saturation?

also did u start the aspirin recently?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Sounds like stress. The right diet can help, but nothing really changes until the source of stress is removed, or stress is recognized and some attitude adjustment is made. I experienced an extremely stressful sequence of situations in which I had to fight to not lose my mind. It was kill yourself bad. I finally accepted that I couldn't change the situation. I was stuck. The only way I have been able to deal with it is to adopt a dgaf attitude. I do what I can do and don't really gaf what anyone thinks, not even the voice in my head that is always driving me to do something. That has really helped. So in a sense I did kill myself, but it wasn't me personally, it was something really intrinsic to my being that I thought meant everything. Whether is was the right or wrong decision, I don't know, and I seriously dgaf because I am going to take care of myself, and all condemning voices can be damned.