Health keeps declining - adverse effects from many "Peaty" supplements?

[ProstateProblem]

TLDR: many Peat-approved supplements make my health problems worse. Can you help me to understand why?

Dear all,

I have been a lurker on this forum for quite a while and have now decided to register to ask you for help.

I am a mid-30's male. Around age 16, my health suddenly started declining. This decline was slow, but steady over the years.
At age 30, I discovered the teachings of Ray Peat.
By implementing his dietary principles, I have managed to partially recover my health.
In particular, I have improved my body temperature , my digestion and my sleep.
However, the improvements I have made are not enough to feel healthy. (For instance, my temperature went from 36.3°C to 36.6°C, bloating after meals disappeared but I still have steatorrhea and intolerance to many food additives).

In addition, I have other symptoms that keep getting worse.

My main problems are the following:
- insufficient deep and refreshing sleep; I sleep but I wake up easily and I don't feel refreshed
- intolerance to food additives (many give me insomnia)
- intolerance to any minor stress; this is starting to severely interfere with my job
- intolerance to physical exercise; even a couple sets of light weight lifting in the morning will cause insomnia at night
- anhedonia
- inability to focus; again, this is starting to severely interfere with my job
- irritability
- low libido, erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation
- prostate swelling (pressure and pain in my groin area, frequent and sudden urge to urinate, incomplete voiding). This one in particular concerns me a lot since both my father and grandfather have been diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer and have greatly suffered through the barbaric standard medical treatments.

Of course, I have consulted many conventional (general practitioners, gastroenterologists, urologists, endocrinologists) and alternative practitioners (orthomolecular practitioners, homeopaths, accupuncturists, osteopaths, applied kinesiologists, reiki practitioners) over the years, without any result.
Pretty much all of them have told me that I suffer from "stress", although none has ever been able to point out where this stress comes from.

Over the years, I have also tried many supplements to address my problems. Most, if not all, have made my problems worse.

Through the articles of Ray Peat and this forum, I have discovered that some supplements are not healthy at all (fish oil, SAMe, melatonin, ascorbic acid, St. John's wort).

However, each of the following supplements that seem to be approved on this forum also worsen all of the symptoms I have mentioned above:
- coconut oil & MCT oil
- vitamin A
- vitamin D
- vitamin K
- taurine
- ursodeoxycholic acid
- activated charcoal
This worsening is near instantly, is severe, and happens at low doses already (for instance a single dose of 1000 IU of vitamin D).

In addition, I react poorly to all of the following "Peaty" supplements and foods, albeit in a less dramatic way:
- coffee
- aspirin
- gelatin, collagen powder & home-made bone broth
- white button mushrooms
- pyrucet
- natural dessicated thyroid
- pregnenolone
- DHEA
- testosterone
- anything containing DMSO

I have tried most, if not all, of the above products in isolation, when well fed and from various manufacturers, without any change in outcome
I have been trying for a long time to find a common ground for my reaction to these supplements and foods, but I cannot find one.

Therefore my question to this forum: can you help me to better understand the root of my health problems?
I would be very grateful for any tip that can point me in the right direction.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Of course, I have consulted many conventional (general practitioners, gastroenterologists, urologists, endocrinologists) and alternative practitioners (orthomolecular practitioners, homeopaths, accupuncturists, osteopaths, applied kinesiologists, reiki practitioners) over the years, without any result.
Pretty much all of them have told me that I suffer from "stress", although none has ever been able to point out where this stress comes from.

You are not the only one told so, many are told the same thing, however it you have the patience to investigate you will see that many of these people that are being told so are actually satisfied with them being labeled as "stress" is the cause of issues, this is why you see so many people saying my cause of issues is all stress.
And you have noticed that how the common denominator of all doctors is "stress".
Ironically some of them are highly stressed and actually have certain health issues as doctors if you get a change to talk to them.

I believe that if one is truly stressed can tell, especially if one is not particularly dumb, weather he can adjust to remove that stress is another thing.
Please do not be discouraged by their incapability, in my experience when a doctor is ready to tell you "I have no idea what to do to you" they actually say "you are stressed".

 

[conrad0602]

I wonder if you need to detox a bit before adding in supplements. Cleanse liver and gut with tudca, carrot salad and maybe a few coffee enemas then after a while try again with small amounts of the safe supplements. And always try to supplement as little as possible with diet as the focus. I.e eggs or liver rather than B vitamin supplement for example.

 

[InChristAlone]

We would love to help you but it's impossible to know without also knowing more about your diet, meal timing, calories and maybe any other factor which could be greatly impacting your health such as porn addiction.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Cleanse liver and gut with tudca

If he already took Taurine & UrsoDeoxyCholic Acid (UDCA) and made him worse why should TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid) not also make him worse?

 

[conrad0602]

If he already took Taurine & UrsoDeoxyCholic Acid (UDCA) and made him worse why should TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid) not also make him worse?

Didn't spot the udca. If the system is considerably congested then detoxification won't be an easy process. It would have to be approached gently to try and minimise symptoms at first.

 

[Korven]

TLDR: many Peat-approved supplements make my health problems worse. Can you help me to understand why?

Dear all,

I have been a lurker on this forum for quite a while and have now decided to register to ask you for help.

I am a mid-30's male. Around age 16, my health suddenly started declining. This decline was slow, but steady over the years.
At age 30, I discovered the teachings of Ray Peat.
By implementing his dietary principles, I have managed to partially recover my health.
In particular, I have improved my body temperature , my digestion and my sleep.
However, the improvements I have made are not enough to feel healthy. (For instance, my temperature went from 36.3°C to 36.6°C, bloating after meals disappeared but I still have steatorrhea and intolerance to many food additives).

In addition, I have other symptoms that keep getting worse.

My main problems are the following:
- insufficient deep and refreshing sleep; I sleep but I wake up easily and I don't feel refreshed
- intolerance to food additives (many give me insomnia)
- intolerance to any minor stress; this is starting to severely interfere with my job
- intolerance to physical exercise; even a couple sets of light weight lifting in the morning will cause insomnia at night
- anhedonia
- inability to focus; again, this is starting to severely interfere with my job
- irritability
- low libido, erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation
- prostate swelling (pressure and pain in my groin area, frequent and sudden urge to urinate, incomplete voiding). This one in particular concerns me a lot since both my father and grandfather have been diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer and have greatly suffered through the barbaric standard medical treatments.

Of course, I have consulted many conventional (general practitioners, gastroenterologists, urologists, endocrinologists) and alternative practitioners (orthomolecular practitioners, homeopaths, accupuncturists, osteopaths, applied kinesiologists, reiki practitioners) over the years, without any result.
Pretty much all of them have told me that I suffer from "stress", although none has ever been able to point out where this stress comes from.

Over the years, I have also tried many supplements to address my problems. Most, if not all, have made my problems worse.

Through the articles of Ray Peat and this forum, I have discovered that some supplements are not healthy at all (fish oil, SAMe, melatonin, ascorbic acid, St. John's wort).

However, each of the following supplements that seem to be approved on this forum also worsen all of the symptoms I have mentioned above:
- coconut oil & MCT oil
- vitamin A
- vitamin D
- vitamin K
- taurine
- ursodeoxycholic acid
- activated charcoal
This worsening is near instantly, is severe, and happens at low doses already (for instance a single dose of 1000 IU of vitamin D).

In addition, I react poorly to all of the following "Peaty" supplements and foods, albeit in a less dramatic way:
- coffee
- aspirin
- gelatin, collagen powder & home-made bone broth
- white button mushrooms
- pyrucet
- natural dessicated thyroid
- pregnenolone
- DHEA
- testosterone
- anything containing DMSO

I have tried most, if not all, of the above products in isolation, when well fed and from various manufacturers, without any change in outcome
I have been trying for a long time to find a common ground for my reaction to these supplements and foods, but I cannot find one.

Therefore my question to this forum: can you help me to better understand the root of my health problems?
I would be very grateful for any tip that can point me in the right direction.

Hi, it sounds like you have a clogged up liver/stagnant bile flow and in that state any supplement will tend to make things worse (especially the fat-soluble vitamins).

I would stop all supplements and focus on restoring healthy bile flow. If you can get the old toxic bile out of the liver you should start feeling a lot better after a couple of weeks, and at that point you can add back in supplements again if needed. In my experience a diet low in soluble fiber, with lots of grass fed beef and hot water (4 pints every day), and lots of resting, was very helpful.

 

[Birdie]

TLDR: many Peat-approved supplements make my health problems worse. Can you help me to understand why?

Dear all,

I have been a lurker on this forum for quite a while and have now decided to register to ask you for help.

I am a mid-30's male. Around age 16, my health suddenly started declining. This decline was slow, but steady over the years.
At age 30, I discovered the teachings of Ray Peat.
By implementing his dietary principles, I have managed to partially recover my health.
In particular, I have improved my body temperature , my digestion and my sleep.
However, the improvements I have made are not enough to feel healthy. (For instance, my temperature went from 36.3°C to 36.6°C, bloating after meals disappeared but I still have steatorrhea and intolerance to many food additives).

In addition, I have other symptoms that keep getting worse....

However, each of the following supplements that seem to be approved on this forum also worsen all of the symptoms I have mentioned above:


Therefore my question to this forum: can you help me to better understand the root of my health problems?
I would be very grateful for any tip that can point me in the right direction.

Your adverse affects are to what you've assumed to be Peaty supplements, but I suggest a re-appraisal.

Ray Peat does not recommend DMSO. It looks like you are using various things from this forum that you assume are recommended by Peat. I would suggest you read more of his articles, his books, and listen to his interviews. Several things you mention above, I've not seen Ray recommend.

You list Natural Desiccated Thyroid. Ray recommends Cynoplus at times and Cynomel. The NDTs are unreliable and some of them have caused people problems. They were good in the past, but there have been many formula changes along with sales to larger companies.

I don't think Ray recommends collagen powder. The last I heard DHEA is used sparingly if at all. Again depending on the situation/person.

All in all, Ray gives suggestions from what he's learned, but it always is specific to the person and situation. He makes a few blanket statements, for example with milk and orange juice, but even those are sometimes not appropriate. It's not a Ray Peat Diet.

It looks like your adverse affects are to what you've assumed to be Peaty supplements, but you are missing Ray's approach.

 

[JamesGatz]

- low libido, erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation
- prostate swelling (pressure and pain in my groin area, frequent and sudden urge to urinate, incomplete voiding). This one in particular concerns me a lot since both my father and grandfather have been diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer and have greatly suffered through the barbaric standard medical treatments.

Can you list the things you eat/drink daily ?

I got this exactly when first starting -

low libido and prostate swelling and constant need to urinate was always a sign of me drinking too much liquid and cold food and becoming hypometabolic - I think it's related to TSH but I forgot the exact reason

If you have actual pain in the prostate and it feels very uncomfortable to sit down and place pressure then I would say it is likely you are experiencing what I was

the problem went away once I started eating more hot, dry food like toasted croissants and rice and my metabolism improved significantly

 

[AncestralJoy]

No one wants to talk about this here but vitamin A toxicity would be interesting to investigate in your case. My eBooks
@ProstateProblem the books are free

 

[Parrot]

I have empathy for your situation and there are obviously many straws you can grasp.
When I hit 50 I went downhill very fast after a visit to the dentist - autoimmune issues, sinusitis, allergies, sleep apnoea, gallstones, enlarged liver, BPH, pre-diabetic, brain fog, etc, etc.
I did not know about RP at the time, but the first steps I took were to go back to yoga once a week and take long walks on the beach. I believe these two things were pivotal in working my way back to better health and about 5 years later I was much, much better.
Found out about Peat just over two years ago and have been trying to delete PUFA, limit pre-prepared foods and eat well while still trying to lose weight. I am now much improved again - no autoimmune issues, no sinus issues, allergies much improved, don't know about gallstones however I did do a course of chanca piedra (stonebreaker) don't know about liver since I have no subsequent ultra sound, diabetes numbers are excellent, brain fog is rare these days and still have BPH however I only get up at night maybe 4 or 5 times a month. I do notice that alcohol makes me urinate more frequently and coffee sometimes.
I have also just recently opted to try and eat GF and dairy free transferring to goat milk and cheese.
I also take a sauna once a fortnight which I believe helps me stay on track.
I ride a road bike three times a week for around 100kms a week with a couple of friends. (this is only since Covid and brings me great joy.) I also do weights twice per week and a regime of star jumps/squats/sprints three times a week on bike days.
I'm now 58 and weigh 90.5 kilos with a flabby fat roll around my waist and upper chest which I am hoping to move over the next few months. (I have lost 4 kilos since the start of October.)
If you don't live near an ocean, perhaps a forest or river might be a good substitute.

 

[ProstateProblem]

Dear all, thank you for your suggestions and my apologies for my late reply.
I will try to address all your questions.

I believe that if one is truly stressed can tell, especially if one is not particularly dumb, weather he can adjust to remove that stress is another thing.
Please do not be discouraged by their incapability, in my experience when a doctor is ready to tell you "I have no idea what to do to you" they actually say "you are stressed".

I agree 100%.
Of course, from time to time, I am truly stressed. However, in these moment, I am also aware that I'm stressed and I know the cause of the stress.
In all those years, only one single practitioner had the honesty to tell me: "Look, I don't know what is wrong with you and I probably will not be able to help you".

We would love to help you but it's impossible to know without also knowing more about your diet, meal timing, calories and maybe any other factor which could be greatly impacting your health such as porn addiction.

Can you list the things you eat/drink daily ?

No porn addiction and never had one. Also no addiction to cigarettes, alcohol or any other recreational drug.

My diet is roughly the following:

Breakfast:
- lukewarm water with apple cider vinegar
- 2 to 3 pieces of fruit
- homemade spelt/einkorn bread
- raw ham (no additives)
- goat cheese
- 1 cup of coffee with whole milk (not daily or the coffee gives me irritability and low libido)

Lunch:
- same as breakfast, minus the coffee
- additionally 2 eggs one or two times a week
- a piece of dark chocolate

Mid afternoon snack
- freshly squeezed orange juice (3 to 4 oranges)
- dates
- a piece of dark chocolate

Diner:
- 150 to 200 grams of red meat, well salted
- white rice or white potatoes (often prepared with additional butter and egg)
- well cooked vegetables

Pre-bedtime snack
- apples fried in butter with cinnamon, honey and salt OR
- Haagen-Dazs vanilla

Total calories: 2700-3200 kcal/day
Composition: 40-50% carbs, 20-25% protein, 30-35% fat

I take the following supplements a couple of times per week (not daily):
- a B-complex (Pure Encapsulations B-complex; I don't tolerate Idealabs Energin, it makes me irritable and gives me rosacea - comparable to excessive coffee intake)
- magnesium glycinate (also Pure Encapsulations)
- zinc picolinate (also Pure Encapsulations)
- a liver support syrup compounded by a local pharmacy (most helpful supplement for me)

Your adverse affects are to what you've assumed to be Peaty supplements, but I suggest a re-appraisal.

Ray Peat does not recommend DMSO. It looks like you are using various things from this forum that you assume are recommended by Peat. I would suggest you read more of his articles, his books, and listen to his interviews. Several things you mention above, I've not seen Ray recommend.

You list Natural Desiccated Thyroid. Ray recommends Cynoplus at times and Cynomel. The NDTs are unreliable and some of them have caused people problems. They were good in the past, but there have been many formula changes along with sales to larger companies.

I don't think Ray recommends collagen powder. The last I heard DHEA is used sparingly if at all. Again depending on the situation/person.

All in all, Ray gives suggestions from what he's learned, but it always is specific to the person and situation. He makes a few blanket statements, for example with milk and orange juice, but even those are sometimes not appropriate. It's not a Ray Peat Diet.

It looks like your adverse affects are to what you've assumed to be Peaty supplements, but you are missing Ray's approach.

I am aware that Ray prefers real food (particularly liver, oysters and ripe-picked fruit) over supplements. The only supplements I remember him explicitly recommending in his articles are thyroid, progesterone, coffee and coconut oil.

Most of the supplements were tried before I became aware of his teachings. But since these supplements are generally regarded as anti-inflammatory and pro-metabolic, I listed them as "Peaty".

Anyway, I was not aware of the reliability issues with the NDT so thank you for that information.

No one wants to talk about this here but vitamin A toxicity would be interesting to investigate in your case. My eBooks
@ProstateProblem the books are free

I am aware of Grant Genereux's theory of vitamin A toxicity.

However:
- I never ate vitamin-fortified food.
- I never used Accutane.
- I only have negative effects to vitamin A supplements (which I only used a couple of times), not to liver.

Therefore I think the chance is low that I'm suffering from vitamin A overload and I do not want to try the extremely restrictive vitamin A depletion diet.

I did not know about RP at the time, but the first steps I took were to go back to yoga once a week and take long walks on the beach. I believe these two things were pivotal in working my way back to better health and about 5 years later I was much, much better.

If you don't live near an ocean, perhaps a forest or river might be a good substitute.

Good suggestions, the things I'm aware of that really help me are:
- shellfish (fresh, not the frozen preservative-laden kind you can find at the supermarket)
- sunshine exposure and warmth
- swimming in the ocean

Unfortunately I don't live near the ocean or any large natural bodies of water. I try to compensate by grounding on the wet grass in my garden or by making walks in the forest, but these don't help nearly as much.

 

[ProstateProblem]

Hi, it sounds like you have a clogged up liver/stagnant bile flow and in that state any supplement will tend to make things worse (especially the fat-soluble vitamins).

I would stop all supplements and focus on restoring healthy bile flow. If you can get the old toxic bile out of the liver you should start feeling a lot better after a couple of weeks, and at that point you can add back in supplements again if needed. In my experience a diet low in soluble fiber, with lots of grass fed beef and hot water (4 pints every day), and lots of resting, was very helpful.

Now you may be onto something.

I do have a diagnosis of biliary sludge (it's the reason I have UDCA at hand).

I did the olive oil liver flush 7 times.
While I'm convinced that the green "stones" that are expelled are simply a saponified olive oil/bile mixture, the first time I also expelled some very small tan, red and black stones. Unfortunately that did nothing to improve my health.

There are two cholagogues that are effective to me: artichoke and quince.
Whenever I cook those and drink the cooking water, I get a strong pressure in my liver/gallbladder area.
Therefore I always backed down from using these remedies.

I have been applying your tips for the past week. I only drink hot water and apply a hot pack to my liver area after every meal. Initially, this resulted in a similar (albeit less strong) pressure sensation in my liver area, insomnia and a decreased body temperature. These side effects are getting better.

I will add artichoke or quince water to this treatment plan and report back.

 

[Vanset]

thyroid panel and sex hormones panel is the absolute basic thing you need to test for to have any idea what you're standing on

 

[ProstateProblem]

thyroid panel and sex hormones panel is the absolute basic thing you need to test for to have any idea what you're standing on

I've had those measured many times over the past couple of years, the results are always similar:

- low TSH
- average free T4
- high free T3
- average to high total testosterone
- low estradiol (except when I was supplementing pregnenolone and DHEA, then it skyrocketed)
- low estrone
- average prolactin
- low to average IGF1
- low pregnenolone
- low progesterone

Also the outliers (outside lab reference range) are always the same:

- very high SHBG
- very low DHEAs
- very low vitamin A, D and E
- very high bilirubin (other liver markers perfectly normal)

 

[InChristAlone]

The very high bilirubin is the only thing that sticks out for me. This is absolutely a red flag for toxic liver. People are having success going slow with lactoferrin. Making sure to poop regularly is essential as well.

 

[Vanset]

I've had those measured many times over the past couple of years, the results are always similar:

- low TSH
- average free T4
- high free T3
- average to high total testosterone
- low estradiol (except when I was supplementing pregnenolone and DHEA, then it skyrocketed)
- low estrone
- average prolactin
- low to average IGF1
- low pregnenolone
- low progesterone

Also the outliers (outside lab reference range) are always the same:

- very high SHBG
- very low DHEAs
- very low vitamin A, D and E
- very high bilirubin (other liver markers perfectly normal)

average/high t, low estradiol and over the range shbg would cause hypogonadal symptoms. high bilirubin and high shbg could be a liver problem. have you ever tested your total cholesterol and ldl?

your symptoms supposedly started around puberty which adds to the whole picture. ever tried trt?

also test your free testosterone.

 

[Gustav3Y]

- very high SHBG

over the range shbg

Is very high or over the range ?
What is the actual number?

 

[Vanset]

Is very high or over the range ?
What is the actual number?

oh yeah i just imagined things, gotta wait for op to answer

 

[Gustav3Y]

oh yeah i just imagined things, gotta wait for op to answer

It could be over the range, but you know even if the SBHG is high but still within the range in the BB world they consider it bad, yet generally Ray is more ok with high SHBG within the range if I recall correctly.