Starch gives me optimal strength, energy and physical performance

Gânico

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Why don't stick with meat, fruit and milk/dairy?

While getting most of calories from fatty meat, balancing with animal skin or another gelatinous part, or from dairy, if you tolerate, up to 3-4 liters of milk.
 

aniciete

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Why don't stick with meat, fruit and milk/dairy?

While getting most of calories from fatty meat, balancing with animal skin or another gelatinous part, or from dairy, if you tolerate, up to 3-4 liters of milk.
Where are you getting salt from if you only eat those foods? 3-4 liters of milk will make me ice cold, even if I heat the milk.
This is because you are consuming a very large amount of calcium. So what happens is you have a constant influx of calcium absorbing into your circulation which is transiently blocking sodium channel activity. Sodium is excitatory (through glutamate mainly which uses sodium channels) so calcium blocks this, slowing nerve activity.
 

Gânico

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Where are you getting salt from if you only eat those foods? 3-4 liters of milk will make me ice cold, even if I heat the milk.
If you eat those foods you won't need salt, even Peat said this. I'm getting/holding enough sodium from these foods, proof is that i never crave salt, it actually disgusts me. Milk always makes me very warm, maybe you don't tolerate it.
 

Gânico

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If you eat those foods you won't need salt, even Peat said this. I'm getting/holding enough sodium from these foods, proof is that i never crave salt, it actually disgusts me. Milk always makes me very warm, maybe you don't tolerate it.
"When thyroid function is normal, sodium is usually efficiently retained, so that a diet of mostly fruit and milk wouldn’t necessarily require extra sodium." Ray Peat, via email exchange.
 
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GreekDemiGod

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Why don't stick with meat, fruit and milk/dairy?

While getting most of calories from fatty meat, balancing with animal skin or another gelatinous part, or from dairy, if you tolerate, up to 3-4 liters of milk.
That's what I'm pretty much doing now. Plus honey.
 

Sphagnum

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Sourdough bread, fruit, oats, rice.
Do you prepare the oats and rice fresh each time?
The more amylose that a starch has, the more additional resistant starch will form if it’s allowed to cool long enough, even if eventually reheated. While most don’t reheat oats, it’s common with rice dishes.
Oats can be just as difficult though, because store bought oats are pre-steamed to varying degree (dependent on the style.) However, fresh raw oats can be found direct from farms online.
 

Daft

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Might think to count your calories to get an answer on why starch gives more energy - tends to be denser and ultimately provide more calories - enough to actually reach daily needs of like 2500-3000 cals to not be in a deficit, if not also eating fats. Think of it: 100g carbs is 4cals/g so 400 cals. If you have 3 meals of that it's only 1200 calories. And from fresh non dried fruit that's like 4 apples with 25g sugar each, and 190g water weight each = nearly a kilo of water weight to get just 400 cals of energy. Sugar is a good addition, but in practice it's hard to do low fat diet with just sugar in a natural way - ideally the body adapts to - the stomach is robust enough - to handle some big boluses of starches just as human populations are used to historically for a while now. Starches - simply due to getting more glucose total - tend to create a larger insulin load, rather than just insulin index, and this could explain more often feeling down when adding it to diet - you're perhaps simply increasing the post-prandial dip. But once that passes there are more calories and glucose available for your brain to RIDE on sailor.
 
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GreekDemiGod

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I remember reading an article on a bodybuilding site, on how dietary fat is much more likely to be stored as fat gain, in the presence of a high insulin state.
Whereas in a low insulin state, dietary fat doesn't get stored as fat.
They advised to limit fat in the post-workout meal, when insulin sensitivity is high, so you would eat a high carb, high protein, low fat meal to minimize fat gain.

When Ray says that starch is fattening, he is not actually correct. It's starch in the presence of fat, which is fattening. That's why people get lean on high-starch, low fat diets, and gain fat on high starch, high fat.
High starch, high fat will elevate and maintain high blood sugar for hours.

But since starch with no added fat, doesn't taste that good, we have to reach a compromise.
From my personal experience:
starch + unlimited fats = bad combination.
starch + low/ moderate fats = better

80g carbs + 40g fats meal = BAD
80g CARBS + 15-20g fats meal = GOOD.
 

Nomane Euger

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I remember reading an article on a bodybuilding site, on how dietary fat is much more likely to be stored as fat gain, in the presence of a high insulin state.
Whereas in a low insulin state, dietary fat doesn't get stored as fat.
They advised to limit fat in the post-workout meal, when insulin sensitivity is high, so you would eat a high carb, high protein, low fat meal to minimize fat gain.

When Ray says that starch is fattening, he is not actually correct. It's starch in the presence of fat, which is fattening. That's why people get lean on high-starch, low fat diets, and gain fat on high starch, high fat.
High starch, high fat will elevate and maintain high blood sugar for hours.

But since starch with no added fat, doesn't taste that good, we have to reach a compromise.
From my personal experience:
starch + unlimited fats = bad combination.
starch + low/ moderate fats = better

80g carbs + 40g fats meal = BAD
80g CARBS + 15-20g fats meal = GOOD.
from which sources are you refering when you claim that ray peat claimed"starch is fattening"with no other nuances,can you link it?
 

sebastian_r

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you ever tried cutting out all plants food?
as soon as I eat fructose or starch all kinds of problem start
now just doing meat and milk, which works fine
 

Korven

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you ever tried cutting out all plants food?
as soon as I eat fructose or starch all kinds of problem start
now just doing meat and milk, which works fine

I am tempted to go back to beef and milk diet again. My tolerance for starch and fruit has gone up, i.e I don't feel acutely poisoned by eating them anymore, but I still think they inflame my digestive tract or cause low-grade inflammation because I still get sick, catch colds very easily.

How many calories you get on meat and milk? No problems with sleep or energy?
 

Korven

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If I could only find a way to get 400-500 grams carbohydrates in my diet from sources that don't cause gut inflammation.
 

sebastian_r

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I am tempted to go back to beef and milk diet again. My tolerance for starch and fruit has gone up, i.e I don't feel acutely poisoned by eating them anymore, but I still think they inflame my digestive tract or cause low-grade inflammation because I still get sick, catch colds very easily.

How many calories you get on meat and milk? No problems with sleep or energy?
I tend to do better on lowish carbs, 20-30% of calories from carbs works fine for me
2-3 liters of milk, 400-800g rib eye
so anything between 2500-3500 calories, depending on how busy my day is
energy and sleep is good, so far the best approach I have found in years of experimenting
 

Korven

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I tend to do better on lowish carbs, 20-30% of calories from carbs works fine for me
2-3 liters of milk, 400-800g rib eye
so anything between 2500-3500 calories, depending on how busy my day is
energy and sleep is good, so far the best approach I have found in years of experimenting

Thank you this sounds great, I am going to try it out and see what happens.
 

Korven

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@Korven Did you found that improving your bile flow helped with endotoxin disposal?

For sure, when I started drinking hot water I feel like my health went from 2/10 to a solid 7/10. My liver was very congested and my gallbladder was "stuck" before which made feel very sick and weak.
 

shanny

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For sure, when I started drinking hot water I feel like my health went from 2/10 to a solid 7/10. My liver was very congested and my gallbladder was "stuck" before which made feel very sick and weak.
What was your regimen with the hot water? I feel like I have those exact symptoms. Sorry if I missed this somewhere.....feel free to link it if it's in another thread!
 

Korven

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What was your regimen with the hot water? I feel like I have those exact symptoms. Sorry if I missed this somewhere.....feel free to link it if it's in another thread!

It's not very complicated, I just drank 4 pints of warm or hot water spread out throughout the day. I got the idea from this book written in the 1800s (https://justmeat.co/docs/what-must-i-do-to-get-well-by-elma-stuart.pdf) which talks about how hot water drinking restores healthy bile flow. Dr Salisbury also prescribed his patients a low-fermentation diet of mainly beef with the hot water, but the hot water on its own is helpful. It was a game changer for me, I would try it out and see how you feel! You would want to separate it from your meals though, maybe 1-1.5 hour before meals or something like that.
 

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