Starch gives me optimal strength, energy and physical performance

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
Ever since I started "peating", I basically made little progress in the gym and my body composition got worse: lost some muscle, gained bodyfat. Gym sessions were draining me. All this time I thought it was the hypothyroidism. Or not enough calories.
Adding starch daily in my diet significantly brings my strength, physical performance, energy in and outside of the gym to optimal levels. On fruits and milk only, I feel like I'm running on "empty tank", on starch + fruits, I feel I'm running a full tank, and have a big reservoir of energy that is slowly released.
I think starch is much more effective at refilling liver and muscle glycogen.

And once again, I mention it's not the calories, I'm actually eating less calories when I include starch in my diet.
And my daytime temps are quite good on High carb(starch + fruits) and Low/moderate Fat. Last week I hit 37.5 and 37.8 post-workout, and I'm off thyroid meds.
I also have excellent blood sugar control with starch, as long as I don't go crazy with my fat intake.
I'm continental / Eastern european, my descendants must have eaten lots of starch.


I am also able to concentrate on mental tasks for longer when I include starch in my diet.
The only advantage I felt from dropping starch was that fruits + milk gave me a better mental state, and I felt more positive, zen and optimistic about life. But my intellectual capacity / ability to concentrate on tasks was bad.
The disadvantage with starch included in diet: I tend to get moments of sadness, minor, depression, regret and ruminating thoughts about past mistakes.
The payoffs in favor of starch are too big to neglect.

Guess I will have to make sure I optimize my digestion of starch as best as I can do it. Cascara daily, lots of Magnesium...


To summarize:

Zero starch(fruits and milk only):
Poor strength, poor physical performance, poor energy levels in and outside the gym. Mentally fatigued, poor ability to work on job-related tasks. Still chronically bloated and sometimes constipated. But feeling more zen, "loving", and optimistic about life.

Starch + fruits: optimal strength, physical performance, energy in and outside of the gym. Higher mental stamina, better ability to work on job-related tasks. Still chronically bloated. Depressions tends to creep in, feelings of not being enough.
 
Last edited:

Roni123@

Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
361
I was so good without starch, but I had to give it up, ultimately my energy was low and I was very mentally oscillating, and very hungry now i'm eating starch, i added charcoal and a carrot daily to try to help the gut
 

Charger

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
476
Location
Chesapeake, VA
People need to be specific about what they're eating when it comes to starch/no starch and how they feel.

Raisins are one of my main carb sources, they have low amounts of starch, but not enough to cause the lethargy, brain fog, and mood swings that I experience with pure starches like potatoes and typically eat them only towards the end of the day. Otherwise juice is my goto throughout the day.

When eating a diet with apple juice, raisins, beef, peas, and eggs (basically no pure starch sources), I have really good energy and also generally feel optimistic and zen. The problem I experience with low starch is actually feeling too energized at the wrong times, feeling too much adrenaline/anxiety in the mornings or when trying to get deep restful sleep. I'm still figuring out whether or not this could just be due to too low dietary fat, too little gaba, or something else. All I know is nothing really cuts the adrenaline right away as well as Androsterone or 11-keto-dht but I'd like to not be dependent on them. Maybe raisins are too 'estrogenic' of a fruit to be a main carb source, who knows.
 

Nomane Euger

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,407
@GreekDemiGod when did you add starchs back into your diet consistently?when did you start your other recent changes such as stopping thyroid supplemention,dropping your fat intake and other changes you did these last weeks?
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
@GreekDemiGod when did you add starchs back into your diet consistently?when did you start your other recent changes such as stopping thyroid supplemention,dropping your fat intake and other changes you did these last weeks?
At the same time.
I’m not sure if it’s the High Carb Low Fat ramping my metabolism, or is it that I am currently at optimal levels of FT4 and FT3 in the blood due to dropping T4 medications, and I will hit a wall and become hypothyroid again once the effect of T4 gets out of my system completely.
I read that it takes 4-6 weeks for that to happen.
 

neu4

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
21
Maybe try to split your carbohydrates ratio to 1/3 milk, 1/3 fruits and 1/3 potato and adequat starch
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
They say it takes a while to get used to high fiber intake? But how long?
Feeling endotoxins and even stomach/ small intestine pains. Should have eased into it instead of going all in.
 

Nomane Euger

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,407
They say it takes a while to get used to high fiber intake? But how long?
Feeling endotoxins and even stomach/ small intestine pains. Should have eased into it instead of going all in.
my personal experience is that these "adaptation periods"arguments are overblown,any foood that made me feel better or drastically better,i felt it at the first consumption in the seconds or minutes following consumption,even if it was the first time i consumed this food,or i didnt consume for 4 years.and foods that made me feel bad first short,always made me feel bad to varying degree.
 

aniciete

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
1,341
Location
United States
my personal experience is that these "adaptation periods"arguments are overblown,any foood that made me feel better or drastically better,i felt it at the first consumption in the seconds or minutes following consumption,even if it was the first time i consumed this food,or i didnt consume for 4 years.and foods that made me feel bad first short,always made me feel bad to varying degree.
True, the “it gets worse before it gets better” isn’t really true
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
The reasoning that it takes time to build and populate your microbiome to better digest those certain foods.
The more you eat it, the more the microbiome populates with that bacteria strain. At least, that’s what the vegan/ plant-based advocates say.
Guess I should find the minimum amount of starch that gives me the benefit. I also likely have SIBO.
I wonder how healthy people are able to tolerate starch.
 

BleuCheese

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
15
I've noticed the exact same thing. Without starch, I feel more peaceful and level, but I feel on the verge of a stress reaction at all times. With starch, I'm more foggy-headed and "hormonal", but I burn hotter and can be more explosive. I'm also, contrary to the narrative around here, I'm way more satiated for longer with starch.

I have somewhat a similar reaction to milk. With it, I feel less motivated, but without it, I get depressed. Super strange stuff.

For me, there really are no foods that are universally Good. Each food moves my internal state around in a certain way that confers benefits in some areas and problems in others. I think gaining intuitive insight on what to eat and when is what im aiming for right now. There's a certain balance between regimented and intuitive eating that seems optimal. Too strict feels exhausting, but too intuitive and I lose touch with what is causing what.

I try not to blackpill myself, but I cant help but wonder what the limits of dietary/pharmaceutical interventions are on actually improving my health if I've been sick/anxious/fatigued in some combination for as long as I can remember. I've made gains, but nothing I would say has been completely revolutionary.

I wonder how healthy people are able to tolerate starch.
Me too man... me too... Maybe pushing through some discomfort to gain a tolerance to it, once your overall health is somewhat ok? Or maybe the black box that is the microbiome is just too tough to wrangle for any specific intervention to really override it. I really think the nuance of the microbiome is flattened in Peatland where it should be expanded and explored.

I don't just want health that depends on me eating a strict set of foods, I want a sense of antifragility that gives me some ability to be stable on a wide variety of foods. I wonder if diversifying the microbiome with starches/vegetables can provide that.
 

mantq

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2022
Messages
60
Location
Eastern Europe
Interesting! The only difference on and off starch for me is that I feel very full (as in muscles full of glycogen) when I workout and the pumps are insane, however, I soak up and tend to 'hold' all the water, no matter what kind of starch I eat ?
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
I think I'm going to minimize starch and fiber yet again, with the exception of oat bran. Slowly sinking into depressive thoughts.
The other choice is to push through, in the hope that my gut adapts to the high fiber intake, but I wouldn't count on that.
Also decided to consult with a gastroenterologist, since I have medical insurance from my company, I figured I should make use of that, maybe they will cover a lot of blood tests.
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
I've noticed the exact same thing. Without starch, I feel more peaceful and level, but I feel on the verge of a stress reaction at all times. With starch, I'm more foggy-headed and "hormonal", but I burn hotter and can be more explosive. I'm also, contrary to the narrative around here, I'm way more satiated for longer with starch.

I have somewhat a similar reaction to milk. With it, I feel less motivated, but without it, I get depressed. Super strange stuff.

For me, there really are no foods that are universally Good. Each food moves my internal state around in a certain way that confers benefits in some areas and problems in others. I think gaining intuitive insight on what to eat and when is what im aiming for right now. There's a certain balance between regimented and intuitive eating that seems optimal. Too strict feels exhausting, but too intuitive and I lose touch with what is causing what.

I try not to blackpill myself, but I cant help but wonder what the limits of dietary/pharmaceutical interventions are on actually improving my health if I've been sick/anxious/fatigued in some combination for as long as I can remember. I've made gains, but nothing I would say has been completely revolutionary.


Me too man... me too... Maybe pushing through some discomfort to gain a tolerance to it, once your overall health is somewhat ok? Or maybe the black box that is the microbiome is just too tough to wrangle for any specific intervention to really override it. I really think the nuance of the microbiome is flattened in Peatland where it should be expanded and explored.

I don't just want health that depends on me eating a strict set of foods, I want a sense of antifragility that gives me some ability to be stable on a wide variety of foods. I wonder if diversifying the microbiome with starches/vegetables can provide that.
Very well said.
I can get satiated on no starch, but I end up eating 3500 calories/ day, and tend to accumulate bodyfat if I do that. With starch, I'm eating less since I get more satiated.
Ripe kiwi's are amazing. One of my favorite fruits.
I had a short phase where I drank a lot of raw A2 cow's milk, it felt very nourishing, but I think it increased Testosterone and/or Estrogen in those quantities, as it gave me acne and backne.
 

Whichway?

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
485
I've noticed the exact same thing. Without starch, I feel more peaceful and level, but I feel on the verge of a stress reaction at all times. With starch, I'm more foggy-headed and "hormonal", but I burn hotter and can be more explosive. I'm also, contrary to the narrative around here, I'm way more satiated for longer with starch.

I have somewhat a similar reaction to milk. With it, I feel less motivated, but without it, I get depressed. Super strange stuff.

For me, there really are no foods that are universally Good. Each food moves my internal state around in a certain way that confers benefits in some areas and problems in others. I think gaining intuitive insight on what to eat and when is what im aiming for right now. There's a certain balance between regimented and intuitive eating that seems optimal. Too strict feels exhausting, but too intuitive and I lose touch with what is causing what.

That‘s well said and highlights the quandary many of us feel, live and deal with on a daily basis. I have a theory that evolutionarily, we evolved without starches and were healthier, as evidenced by the better teeth and skeletons from prior to the agricultural revolution. So bodily, we were healthier.

However when we began to cultivate grains and starches I feel this gave us the brain energy (in combination with the ability to not have to move all the time in search of food) that we have used to rapidly advance over the last 10,000 years. I think starches fuel our brains for longer and somehow raise the level of some of our thinking and reasoning abilities, but it comes at the expense of destabilizing our brain hormonal system making us more prone to anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and other disturbances, as well as fueling imbalances in gut bacteria which also cause us issues.

So our quandary is do we do almost constant keto/ carnivore with the calm mental clarity that that brings with it, but almost flattens our brains ability in other ways. Or do we add lots of carbs and surf the wave of mental stimulation that produces with all attendant problems of blood sugar crashes, anxiety, depression, bloating, etc.

Maybe your idea of choosing the right meal based on what your body needs at that time is the best recipe for navigating the two disparate paths.
 

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
1,952
I've noticed the exact same thing. Without starch, I feel more peaceful and level, but I feel on the verge of a stress reaction at all times. With starch, I'm more foggy-headed and "hormonal", but I burn hotter and can be more explosive.
Sounds like the difference between low and high serotonin, considering how serotonin creates a kind of wall between you and reality. This wall can offer protection from stress or block you from clarity, depending on how you look at it.
However when we began to cultivate grains and starches I feel this gave us the brain energy (in combination with the ability to not have to move all the time in search of food) that we have used to rapidly advance over the last 10,000 years. I think starches fuel our brains for longer and somehow raise the level of some of our thinking and reasoning abilities, but it comes at the expense of destabilizing our brain hormonal system making us more prone to anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and other disturbances, as well as fueling imbalances in gut bacteria which also cause us issues.
It could perhaps be said that civilization is the manifestation of stress metabolism, or even cancer metabolism. It is the exact product of the ways in which grain destabilized our health. Civilization has not allowed us to really 'advance' in any true sense of the word. If anything, we have only regressed.
 

Nomane Euger

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,407
That‘s well said and highlights the quandary many of us feel, live and deal with on a daily basis. I have a theory that evolutionarily, we evolved without starches and were healthier, as evidenced by the better teeth and skeletons from prior to the agricultural revolution. So bodily, we were healthier.

However when we began to cultivate grains and starches I feel this gave us the brain energy (in combination with the ability to not have to move all the time in search of food) that we have used to rapidly advance over the last 10,000 years. I think starches fuel our brains for longer and somehow raise the level of some of our thinking and reasoning abilities, but it comes at the expense of destabilizing our brain hormonal system making us more prone to anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and other disturbances, as well as fueling imbalances in gut bacteria which also cause us issues.

So our quandary is do we do almost constant keto/ carnivore with the calm mental clarity that that brings with it, but almost flattens our brains ability in other ways. Or do we add lots of carbs and surf the wave of mental stimulation that produces with all attendant problems of blood sugar crashes, anxiety, depression, bloating, etc.

Maybe your idea of choosing the right meal based on what your body needs at that time is the best recipe for navigating the two disparate paths.
hi,keto/carnivore isnt the only alternative to eating starchs.wich kind of special "intelligence"abilities do you attribute do starchs compare to other sources of carbs?what do you define as intelligence?
 

Korven

Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
1,133
That‘s well said and highlights the quandary many of us feel, live and deal with on a daily basis. I have a theory that evolutionarily, we evolved without starches and were healthier, as evidenced by the better teeth and skeletons from prior to the agricultural revolution. So bodily, we were healthier.

However when we began to cultivate grains and starches I feel this gave us the brain energy (in combination with the ability to not have to move all the time in search of food) that we have used to rapidly advance over the last 10,000 years. I think starches fuel our brains for longer and somehow raise the level of some of our thinking and reasoning abilities, but it comes at the expense of destabilizing our brain hormonal system making us more prone to anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and other disturbances, as well as fueling imbalances in gut bacteria which also cause us issues.

So our quandary is do we do almost constant keto/ carnivore with the calm mental clarity that that brings with it, but almost flattens our brains ability in other ways. Or do we add lots of carbs and surf the wave of mental stimulation that produces with all attendant problems of blood sugar crashes, anxiety, depression, bloating, etc.

Maybe your idea of choosing the right meal based on what your body needs at that time is the best recipe for navigating the two disparate paths.

Bro that's a very well-thought-out theory and it absolutely matches my own experience. Though I would add that it's not necessarily starch vs carnivore, more so starch vs natural sugars found milk, fruit, honey (or carnivore).

Starch pros: Can focus on tasks for hours and am very good at memorizing (useless) stuff. I've always gotten straight A's and I definitely feel like starch can help with this. You get great vascular pumps in the gym being fuelled by starches. Easier to get enough calories and not worry about eating every 2-3 hours.

Starch cons: Bloating and gas, endotoxin and serotonin feelings. Blood sugar swings. Mental disturbances like anxiety and OCD. Addictive tendencies (possibly to flood neurons with dopamine/endorphins and restore the imbalances caused by starch?). Overall feeling 'unsettled' and like I need to go achieve something for some reason, life becomes boring and dull.

No starch pros: Life is exciting for "no reason" and everything becomes more enjoyable. I feel less submissive and people treat me differently, more attention from women. I go into creative mode and can easily think in new and different patterns. No bloating and ghost wipes. Don't feel the need to self-medicate with porn or drugs.

No starch cons: Very difficult to get enough calories to meet my energetic needs. Feel a little unstable at times (underfed perhaps?). Extremely difficult to do tasks that I don't find meaningful or stimulating. Sleep becomes a little wonky, though not always.
 

Similar threads

P
Replies
10
Views
4K
Polo Saad
P
Back
Top Bottom