A Wish For More Energy

[thomas00]

@thomas00 The T4 I'm taking is very low dose (12.5 mcg). You think I'd be better without it?

I think if you are going to take thyroid you'd be a lot better off taking a product that has t3 combined with t4, or just t3 if that's what's suitable for you.

Ray has talked about studies of t4 only treatments shutting down cell respiration, sending people into comas in large enough doses etc for some people even 12.5mcg is enough to cause some serious problems.

Here's a good read posted by Haidut

The Dangers Of Pure T4 (Synthroid) Treatment

 

[YamnayaMommy]

@Jamesu I'm eating lots of calories for sure, since I lift weights and want to maintain and put on more muscle.
My caloric intake is 3500 calories. Quite liberal with sugar. Yesterday I consumed 320g of sugar.
Some days, I go up to 3800 cal, haven't felt much difference..


Not quite. I am stuck in apathy, minor nihilism, anhedonia. I literally have no hobbies.

Been doing emotional work lately, there's a theory that says emotional thoughts / ruminations / anxiety drain you of physical energy.

My workouts leave me drained, I feel lifeless after them

Marry and have babies. That solved my husband’s anhedonia. Although paternity has increased his neuroticism.

 

[redsun]

@Jamesu I'm eating lots of calories for sure, since I lift weights and want to maintain and put on more muscle.
My caloric intake is 3500 calories. Quite liberal with sugar. Yesterday I consumed 320g of sugar.
Some days, I go up to 3800 cal, haven't felt much difference..


Not quite. I am stuck in apathy, minor nihilism, anhedonia. I literally have no hobbies.

Been doing emotional work lately, there's a theory that says emotional thoughts / ruminations / anxiety drain you of physical energy.

My workouts leave me drained, I feel lifeless after them

Chris masterjohn mentions poor riboflavin status can cause exercise intolerance. I'm inclined to agree, using riboflavin myself seriously reduced my ability to fatigue from workouts but from life stress in general. History of high fat diet(you used to do carnivore), weight loss(which is basically eating a high fat diet, you are eating your own body fat), lots of exercise, and lots of sunlight exposure increase the riboflavin requirement. Riboflavin has so many roles in its function, activates other vitamins, recycles glutathione, converts lactic acid back to pyruvate so it can turn back into glucose... check out chris masterjohn's articles and podcasts for info. I think in your case it will help you because of your history with carnivore.

 

[ExCarniv]

@redsun Do you mean supplemental Riboflavin?

 

[redsun]

@redsun Do you mean supplemental Riboflavin?

Yep.

 

[ExCarniv]

So seems like a good idea to supplement B Vitamins even if you reach all the RDAs with food.

 

[redsun]

So seems like a good idea to supplement B Vitamins even if you reach all the RDAs with food.

Most of the RDAs are incredibly inadequate, especially when we are talking about the average unhealthy joe or doing extreme diets(high carb, high fat, low fat, low carb) because extreme diets always change your nutrient intake by usually increasing intake of some nutrients and decreasing intake of others. Stress increases requirements.

Low B2 is going to make it much harder to exercise and burn fats for energy when needed. Even if you were to eat less food(do a diet) your riboflavin requirement would actually raise as I mentioned before. You can see how you can get low riboflavin problems from chronic yoyo dieting up and down. Most people dont get much riboflavin already, but when you do an 8 week dieting stint where you dont eat as much, your B2 is going to get even lower because it is burning your body fat.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Is peating anti-depression, cause I feel I'm sinking into a darker abyss since doing it.
Haven't found many success stories in the forum

 

[ExCarniv]

Is peating anti-depression, cause I feel I'm sinking into a darker abyss since doing it.
Haven't found many success stories in the forum

How's your diet atm?

 

[jzeno]

@GreekDemiGod Have you tried capsaicin?

Capsaicin produces antidepressant-like effects in the forced swimming test and enhances the response of a sub-effective dose of amitriptyline in rats - PubMed - NCBI

I, like you, didn't get a tremendous breakthrough on the depression, low energy front until I started incorporating capsaicin into my diet--something that peat doesn't discuss, as far as I'm aware of. So, Peating may not be the end all be all for many people or anyone, but some of his suggestions can be productive. I follow some of Peat's most simple and reasonable suggestions, but many of his conclusions that are unreasonable in my opinion I don't practice at all. You may find your best health from adopting a similar practice.

 

[boris]

I follow some of Peat's most simple and reasonable suggestions, but many of his conclusions that are unreasonable in my opinion I don't practice at all.

Hi jzeno, I would be interested to know what are those many unreasonable conclusions in your opinion?

 

[jzeno]

Hi jzeno, I would be interested to know what are those many unreasonable conclusions in your opinion?

From what I've heard from Peat himself in interviews, he implies that he eats a lot of milk, ice cream, orange juice and some eggs, and some animal foods (liver, seafood). To me, that is a bad diet. I don't know if he really eats that way or eats that way today but that seems impractical and even counterproductive. Just my two cents.

There are other areas where I disagree too but that's just one example to give you an idea.

Generally speaking, I think these suggestions by Dr Peat are sound:

"Dr. Peat recommends avoiding all refined vegetable oils, avoiding iron-fortified foods, and supplementing 2 quarts of milk + OJ in addition to your current diet."

I do follow these suggestions daily and I even go a little further, but I think these are good suggestions for most anyone in that they are reasonable, easy to implement, and very well understood/backed by solid research whereas some of his other stuff goes off into the weeds as in it's unclear how it works, impractical, or even ineffective because when people give it their all they end up getting worse somehow, or trading some issues for others.

 

[milkboi]

From what I've heard from Peat himself in interviews, he implies that he eats a lot of milk, ice cream, orange juice and some eggs, and some animal foods (liver, seafood). To me, that is a bad diet. I don't know if he really eats that way or eats that way today but that seems impractical and even counterproductive. Just my two cents.

There are other areas where I disagree too but that's just one example to give you an idea.

Generally speaking, I think these suggestions by Dr Peat are sound:

"Dr. Peat recommends avoiding all refined vegetable oils, avoiding iron-fortified foods, and supplementing 2 quarts of milk + OJ in addition to your current diet."

I do follow these suggestions daily and I even go a little further, but I think these are good suggestions for most anyone in that they are reasonable, easy to implement, and very well understood/backed by solid research whereas some of his other stuff goes off into the weeds as in it's unclear how it works, impractical, or even ineffective because when people give it their all they end up getting worse somehow, or trading some issues for others.

Why would that be a bad diet? Besides the fat in the ice cream (I don't know if he really still eats it btw)?

 

[lampofred]

Why would that be a bad diet? Besides the fat in the ice cream (I don't know if he really still eats it btw)?

I think in order to handle a diet heavy in calcium, liquid, and sugar you have to have low PUFA stores (at least 4 years of serious PUFA restriction under your belt, possibly more). These three things all have the opposite metabolic effect of salt, and the higher your PUFA stores, the less well you are able to retain salt.

In other words it is a good diet only for people who already have good thyroid function, not for people with poor thyroid function who are trying to heal themselves.

 

[ExCarniv]

@jzeno "Dr Peat recommends avoiding all refined vegetable oils, avoiding iron-fortified foods, and supplementing 2 quarts of milk + OJ in addition to your current diet."


I think this, plus avoid or reduce gluten and grains, increasing gelatin rich Foods and Calcium to balance the Phosphorus are the best advices regarding diet.

I don't see reasonable to have a restrictive diet of juice, milk and tropical fruits (not available on most parts of the world).

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@jzeno I eat chilli peppers every now and then.

 

[jzeno]

Why would that be a bad diet? Besides the fat in the ice cream (I don't know if he really still eats it btw)?

It's impractical. Who in their right mind believes they can eat this way and lead a normal life? Literally almost no one eats this way, and for good reason. In almost every aspect you consider it (historically, practicality, feasibility, etc.), it is impractical. Not to mention, it's probably not effective--as is observed from OP's complaints.

People don't seem to understand that Peat and Peaters are often critical of veganism (generally speaking) because of it's impracticality due to the broadly accepted claim that humans in general need some form of animal foods here and there, if not an abundance (whether it's beef, seafood or something else), when Peating is probably even less practical and even more restrictive then veganism. Just my two cents.

 

[jzeno]

@GreekDemiGod Unless you're eating a habanero (which, I know, is very specific) and with a regular frequency (one per day, two per day), then you may not experience any noticeable effect. You could be eating a weak pepper, like a jalapeno, and only once per week, which won't result in any discernible effect and just waste your time and persuade you that "this isn't effective".

"Habanero
Habanero peppers are among the most capsaicin-rich chilies that are commonly available. A 2006 study published in the "Journal of Environmental Science and Health" found that Capsicum chinense, the genetic species habanero peppers are a part of, have the highest concentrations of capsaicin when compared to other peppers from the genus Capsicum. The Chile Pepper Institute reports that the average spice of an orange habanero is 210,000 Scoville units and the red habanero is 150,000 units. However, habanero chilies can sometimes exceed 300,000 units."

Which Peppers Are High in Capsaicin? | Livestrong.com

Just food for thought. I tried other peppers before habaneros, and I didn't experience anything noteworthy.

All the best.

 

[boris]

@jzeno Thanks for your reply. I still don't understand your reasoning how it is a bad diet.

What peat eats: Milk, OJ, cheese, eggs, bone/meat broth, ruminant meat, carrots, mushrooms, tropical fruit, liver/organs, oysters/seafood, warm water fish, kale/greens, coffee, coke. He makes his icecream with skim milk and coconut oil.
Occasional bacon, occasional chicken wings, fried in coconut oil to displace the PUFA. Occasional tortillas with masa harina nixtamalizada. Probably some other stuff on occasion too as a treat.

He says it's ok to eat for carbs: potatoes, rice, sugar.

I think this is not too hard and unrealistic to implement like you said.

I don't see how the milk thing is impractical and I don't see anything counterproductive in his diet. Quite the opposite on practicality. Milk is extremely affordable and you can get it anywhere. Can't drink milk? Well it's not a guideline. He drinks milk because of the protein and calcium, you can get that from other sources too.

 

[jzeno]

@boris Have you ever heard how much milk he drinks in a day?

Tell me how that is practical...

He doesn't eat any starches, FYI.