Low Energy/weakness: Thyroid Or Serotonin? Both?

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How do we know exactly which one is the bigger culprit, assuming there is one?

I have some periods where such an intense feeling of exhaustion comes about that I feel like the willpower system of energy needs to kick in -- or I have to lie down or sit and stop moving until these spells pass and I at least get a baseline of usable energy back.

Any theories on this? Simply weak thyroid? Serotonin issues? I assumed that any thyroid weakness is just picked up/carried on by stress hormones, but in these hyperfatigued states it seems even stress hormones are subpar.

I know if I eat too much I become sick (regardless of what it is) and the body I feel forces itself to down regulate by causing me to not want to move much; sick to my stomach so I don't eat; etc. -- but always passes either after resting or eating again. I have never had this stuff tested but up until this point I'm unsure of what area would be the problem since I never had it noticeably prior to reducing PUFA/managing stress better/etc. Maybe too much stress hormones as energy and I'm crashing those, which is then further taxing the thyroid? Maybe thyroid is trying to do its job since finding Peat, but it is falling short with too much demand placed on it?

I try and get all micros down and macros, but I don't want to push myself too hard if I feel my body "fighting back" too much with trying to eat more or supplement more or etc.

I'm basically trying to feel more seemingly energetic without the stress hormones, but feel really limited sometimes or "rejection" even in an energetic sense.

By guessing, would this sound like a thyroid issue? I know I should get it checked before trying actual thyroid, but can't do so as of now.

I've also heard others here talk about still having similar issues as I'm describing despite taking thyroid hormones, which further complicates the issue (like fatigue, crashing, digestion issues, feeling weak mentally and physically, etc.).

Other things to note:

1.Low dopamine sometimes, but too much dopamine becomes adrenal-like and can cause anxiety -- sometimes trouble balancing it.

2.After eating big meals/solid foods lights seem more dim or the ambiance of rooms changes visually with regard to lighting/colors. Is this serotonin?

3.Feel short-lived energy bursts, but if I take advantage too easily I cross the line and end up overtaxing myself without much effort.

4.Feel my mind works hard/fast, but this taxes my energy supply and doesn't match with physical/bodily energy (like the mind and body are not balanced in an energetic sense). For this reason I may have developed a preference for mind-stimulating pursuits that require more mental than physical work overall, but still like physical activity -- just can't spare much energy sometimes to do much of it. Other times I feel my body dragging on but my mind is dulled -- like sacrificing mental/cognitive abilities to give me bodily energy for purely physical functions.

5.Things highly calming that reduce energy output/needs make me feel best physically/mentally overall, but this contrasts with metabolic output since it is like an affinity to downsize energy because more cannot properly be output efficiently.

Supplements/regimens I use as needed or occasionally:

Niacinamide
Betaine HCL
L-Theanine
K2
Magnesium Sulfate/Oxide
Creatine monohydrate
DHEA (microdoses < 5 mg for now only)
Raw carrot
Ginger
Garlic
Salt

Diet most days:

Scrambled eggs in butter; grits with butter; OJ, grape juice and milk (usually low fat or not much full fat); vitamin complex energy or drinks (to make up for limited diet); muscle meats mostly, but sometimes liver and soon to add other organs; starch every other day, like rice; grains a few times a week at least; few slices of bread every other day; random fruits and potatoes. Very strict with what I eat currently as you can see (probably average 1,500-2,500 calories a day).
 
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redsun

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I have some periods where such an intense feeling of exhaustion comes about that I feel like the willpower system of energy needs to kick in -- or I have to lie down or sit and stop moving until these spells pass and I at least get a baseline of usable energy back.

This is just a theory based on things I have read about so my understanding is this:

If you "burn out" the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) you are just left with the parasympathetic(PNS). Your body will just switch off the SNS and you are left with the PNS which is the "rest and digest" system. Its not just as simple as if you overwork yourself and this happens as some people have a greater capacity to support the SNS when it is needed (any kind of stressor or anything that requires vigilance/attention).

There of course certain vitamins, minerals, amino acids etc that help more in supporting each system. In the end you could just be lacking a nutrient or a few that is reducing your ability to support the SNS so you burn out quicker. When you take stimulants your body makes your PNS stronger to compensate and find balance and when you take "downers"(things that calm you down, reduce SNS) SNS becomes stronger.

This is why when people who have a coffee (caffeine) "addiction" try to stop they feel like they got hit by a truck because the PNS has gotten strong with time and doesnt have caffeine pushing it back anymore and bam all that energy drains out because the SNS is underactive without caffeine.

This is especially the case when you literally rely on a stimulant but barely eat or dont eat well (meaning providing nutrients and amino acids) and those people will have the strongest withdrawal. You can even have a terrible SNS that runs only on stimulants and eat is so badly that your PNS barely works either, then you are really ****88.

Best solution really is feeding the nervous system in its entirety. That way you can have both a well supported PNS and SNS. You need both all the time. And when needed in times of stress or when more energy and vigilance is require your SNS can dominate until the stress is over and you wont be overworked because you support it properly.
 

lampofred

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Have you tested your vitamin D levels? I think excess PTH would probably be the main thing in fatigue.
 
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MetabolicTrash
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I would think thyroid weakness primarily since I get enough calcium:phosphorus mostly for high PTH.

I also get sunlight well nearly every single day, along with the D in milk too so I doubt I have any serious Vitamin D deficiency.

Even when low stress and well fed/energized and feeling good my energy output feels limited too much most of the time. Also, having to recover from a little sports or exercise for so long seems insufficient and overly draining -- not to mention the mental aspects of it too with focus, learning, concentration and etc.
 

prank

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Well 1500 kcals could be far too low. I'm wondering if you're not breathing well.
 
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Well 1500 kcals could be far too low. I'm wondering if you're not breathing well.

Well I can't breathe too well overall even calories aside (I used to eat way more before and still had poor breathing due to nasal congestion and general poor airflow, even with lungs perfectly healthy/fine).

I do bag breathe sometimes and do buteyko, but it isn't something that works in the background -- more so only while doing it would it help.

But going too far with breathing restriction is possibly bound to make one even more weakened/hypo.
 

prank

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Don't do the reduced breathing. The frovlov device and other things like that can be useful though.
Are your sinuses clear now? Is that the primary obstruction?
 
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Don't do the reduced breathing. The frovlov device and other things like that can be useful though.
Are your sinuses clear now? Is that the primary obstruction?

I don't do it much -- only when I feel it is really necessary.

My nasal passages sometimes clear, but are generally obstructed (which is why mouth breathing when sleeping is more likely -- no real airflow is possible nasally).

I assume this has some place in fatigue, but probably not the entire conundrum because even with clearest breathing times I have too low of a threshold for energy both physically and mentally too often.

Like imagine you want to run/jog but it is overwhelming too easily/from little expenditure; or want to learn but focusing drains you so much. I know I should eat more too, but I gravely want to avoid the serotonin symptoms from eating too much of certain things (woke up not long ago in the middle of the night from a nightmare feeling irritable/groggy/just overall bad basically -- definitely thinking it was from the load of milk and sugar I had before bed that night that led to increased gut serotonin).
 

prank

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I think if you have moments of good breathing your body will still be down-regulated for reduced respiration. And bad breathing will make your sleep suck.
 

Hans

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I have some periods where such an intense feeling of exhaustion comes about that I feel like the willpower system of energy needs to kick in -- or I have to lie down or sit and stop moving until these spells pass and I at least get a baseline of usable energy back.
Sounds like low blood sugar.
I know if I eat too much I become sick (regardless of what it is) and the body I feel forces itself to down regulate by causing me to not want to move much; sick to my stomach so I don't eat; etc. -- but always passes either after resting or eating again.
Could be both slow thyroid and stress. Thyroid is needed for digestion. Could also be low histamine.
2.After eating big meals/solid foods lights seem more dim or the ambiance of rooms changes visually with regard to lighting/colors. Is this serotonin?
Could be, dopamine increases colour vision, so serotonin might have the opposite effect.
4.Feel my mind works hard/fast, but this taxes my energy supply and doesn't match with physical/bodily energy (like the mind and body are not balanced in an energetic sense). For this reason I may have developed a preference for mind-stimulating pursuits that require more mental than physical work overall, but still like physical activity -- just can't spare much energy sometimes to do much of it. Other times I feel my body dragging on but my mind is dulled -- like sacrificing mental/cognitive abilities to give me bodily energy for purely physical functions.
Is this like overstimulate mind. Could be high catecholamines and copper.
Niacinamide
Betaine HCL
L-Theanine
K2
Magnesium Sulfate/Oxide
Creatine monohydrate
DHEA (microdoses < 5 mg for now only)
Raw carrot
Ginger
Garlic
Salt
I'd throw in B1 and B2. Maybe B6 as well.

Scrambled eggs in butter; grits with butter; OJ, grape juice and milk (usually low fat or not much full fat); vitamin complex energy or drinks (to make up for limited diet); muscle meats mostly, but sometimes liver and soon to add other organs; starch every other day, like rice; grains a few times a week at least; few slices of bread every other day; random fruits and potatoes. Very strict with what I eat currently as you can see (probably average 1,500-2,500 calories a day).
Gelatin? I think that should be a good addition. About 3tbsp per day.
 

GreekDemiGod

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I have similar symptoms. A few conclusions I have reached:
  • high protein intake is crucial. Lowering protein will absolutely make me weaker.
  • My temps are now high, but blood pressure is on the low side. Very close to euthyroid function, yet still troubles with energy. It's not the thyroid likely.
  • I'd take the high dopamine state any day, even if it comes with some anxiety.
  • not exercising is bad for us both. I lif regularly, might introduce some yoga
 

Jing

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I have similar symptoms , thyroid does nothing for my energy so I would guess more towards serotonin.
 
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MetabolicTrash
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I have similar symptoms. A few conclusions I have reached:
  • high protein intake is crucial. Lowering protein will absolutely make me weaker.
  • My temps are now high, but blood pressure is on the low side. Very close to euthyroid function, yet still troubles with energy. It's not the thyroid likely.
  • I'd take the high dopamine state any day, even if it comes with some anxiety.
  • not exercising is bad for us both. I lif regularly, might introduce some yoga

I agree with more protein -- I often don't get as much as I should. I don't check temps currently, but my pulse is always under 80 when calm/relaxed and having not eaten a big meal or etc. But you still can't always be fooled just by pulse and temperature. Sometimes you can think you're high energy and it is all a false front (I used stress hormones as a crutch and constantly overtaxed myself -- not to mention the serotonergic/possibly cortisol overload and tons of PUFA). As others have found here, sometimes thyroid doesn't "just work" with one time testing -- sometimes people have to mix it up and play trial and error until they reach a good area between thyroids, diet, supplements and etc.

I still wouldn't put it past thyroid myself personally since what else could explain the weakened digestion and low energy all around, among other things? Sure, vitamins and minerals and food in general matters, but none of that entirely can replace a poor thyroid that is always falling short when great strides of energy are needed, forcing you to operate more on stress too much.

Chronic fatigue, OCD, anxiety, and a whole host of other psychological or even psychosomatic issues can be linked to an underperforming thyroid gland (although that may not be all there is to it, but it is relevant enough in most cases to warrant consideration).

It can be complicated, but sometimes the simplest things overlooked could fix everything (like thyroid; or certain deficiencies corrected; or reducing stresses and inflammation; or several other things I can't think of right now).
 
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Elize

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Have yourself tested for Lupus to rule it out. Thyroid and Lupus impact on many.

Elize
 

somuch4food

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I have similar bursts of energy followed by shutdowns.

I'm currently trying out B vitamins and Epsom salt baths for magnesium, too soon to report anything.

I'm eager to learn what others have to say.
 

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