Why Aren't You Telling Us What Works Over The Long Run

[ecstatichamster]

I reacted to lapodin with skin irritation.

 

[Pointless]

Sorry to inquire for more information, but could you talk about what were your ibd symptoms, and talk about the dosage you are taking of those medications. I have ordered cyproheptadine, and I am considering niacinamide, particularly given what you've written. Do you know what is the mechanism behind the niacinamide helping in this case?

Ibd symptoms were diarrhea, enteric fistula, abdominal pain, low albumin, low potassium.

I take 1 mg Cyproheptadine and 1 g niacinamide 2x/day. They both lower serotonin and inflammation.

I have bad luck with anti-pathogens despite a lot of science being focused there. I might try cycling phages and methylene blue because those seem to be the least harmful. A lot of anti-pathogens will make me flare up or feel better for like 1-2 days and then flare.

 

[Nick21]

Ibd symptoms were diarrhea, enteric fistula, abdominal pain, low albumin, low potassium.

I take 1 mg Cyproheptadine and 1 g niacinamide 2x/day. They both lower serotonin and inflammation.

I have bad luck with anti-pathogens despite a lot of science being focused there. I might try cycling phages and methylene blue because those seem to be the least harmful. A lot of anti-pathogens will make me flare up or feel better for like 1-2 days and then flare.

Thank you. I recently ordered cyproheptadine oral from online, and will get the Ideal Labs topical version too. Do you have a preference? I just began my broader H1/H2 antihistamine trial building on the success of pepcid (famotidine) in forming the BMs, but it did not remove urgency, which as you know is also key. Trying zyrtec/pepcid combo today.

 

[Mufasa]

I think the most important thing is the realisation you can only fix metabolic problems if you are long term focused.
If you try to improve your health today, you will only find fixes that involve stress hormones.

 

[Richard Jehl]

I've read SO SO SO many accounts of "this is wonderful" and then nothing...

And people share their momentary enthusiasm MUCH MORE EASILY than their failures.

So I am asking you, what tweak over the long run has worked for you that you are positive about?

According to nearly 20 years of experience as naturotherapist and etiotherapist :

1) Being aware aging and loss of faculties are mainly an effect of the accumulation of calcium in inorganic forms in our bodies, we can slow aging process by avoiding the main sources of inorganic calcium and minerals : phosphates and carbonates. For example, never admit use of supplements containing calcium carbonate or phosphate. Fresh vegetables and fruits are the food naturally containing the higher proportion of organic usable nutrients, and the smallest proportion of inorganic unusable elements (which accumulates in the body and block it).

We should only drink water very poor in mineral content (inorganic and unusable) as some very astonishing studies about mortality have shown. A water containing 30 mg/l of total minerals is acceptable, a water containing 100 g or more is not on the long run.

2) Being aware the skin is the way by which the largest quantity of undesirable elements (the body try to eliminate), is evacuated during our lifetime, everything related to making or keeping the skin pores open and clean is fundamental and its value is gold. Kidneys can not eliminate by themselves everything the body needs to eliminate in order to function normally. Acting on the skin, then in an external way, is essential. Everyday dry skin friction (before shower or bath) is highly recommended and very beneficial on the long run.

3) Being aware elevated heat disassembles structures, can create new toxic components and tend to make food similar to inorganic substances, we should avoid very high temperature when cooking. Steam cooking is ideal, as every method not exceeding 100°C. Tarts cooked at 200°C are not recommended at all in a healthy diet, same remark for fried food, etc

4) Supplements are not needed when lifestyle and habits are healthy and bring balance. They favor unbalances and most of them lead to negative effects on the long run because of that. If I were to mention a few good ones though, I would talk before everything else, about René Quinton Plasma (purified sea water rich in usable transformed minerals). The safest vegetable supplements are those made with the totality of the plant rather than a specific isolated component presented in concentrated form. Minerals and/or vitamins (except vitamin C) should never be taken as mono-supplementations because they depend on each other. Never take zinc chelate supplement alone, or iron, or copper, or a single vitamin B for example; this is very dangerous and so many people destroy their health in doing so. Anyway supplements will never be your core weapon. Food will, and also the way you think, your habits etc.

5) Do some exercice often, learn to laugh and to relax. Create and imagine exercices, be creative. Physical exercices must take into consideration the suppleness is the key function we should try to maintain, the movements they promote also aid in all the detoxifying process. But you are not a physical being only. Causes of our illnesses cannot be understood if we look only at physical laws. Then what really cures ourselves cannot either be understood that way. The human being is made of physical body, soul and spirit all in one. This triple constitution reflects on the 3 states of substances the different sciences study (macromolecular laws, micromolecular laws (biological/colloidal), and subquantic laws) and that we find every cell in its triple constitution to be in relation with. In order to maintain or acquire good health, we must get mature about metaphysics and ideas. Thus you need to enlarge your thoughts, and deeply and honestly follow some kind of spiritual path, teaching or inspiration. But don't forget you have to becomme your own teacher and master...

6) Several therapeutic approaches can be beneficial. The best because they respect the human being in its integrity, are the ones we call “holistic”. As far as I am concerned I found myself and many people satisfied with the ethics and results given by the etiotherapy technique, which was created by Dr Latour in France. I found many people recovering from physical problems as well as psychological ones, thanks to this approach. It is now teached in some other countries.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Ray recommends calcium supplements in many cases. Egg shell or oyster shell. I don't believe this builds up as you say. I think that is a bunch of about buildup of "inorganic" calcium. Sorry.

I'm not sure you are aware this is the Ray Peat forum. I welcome all sorts of ideas, but there is nothing compatible with these ideas in what you wrote. That I can see.

 

[Richard Jehl]

Ray recommends calcium supplements in many cases. Egg shell or oyster shell. I don't believe this builds up as you say. I think that is a bunch of about buildup of "inorganic" calcium. Sorry.
I'm not sure you are aware this is the Ray Peat forum. I welcome all sorts of ideas, but there is nothing compatible with these ideas in what you wrote. That I can see.

I am aware this is Ray Peat forum. I simply expect that we are allowed to sometimes say "I don't agree with this statement or this recommendation because according to what I saw and how I understand it..." Exactly if we were talking directly with Ray or any friend. I already expressed that I HIGHLY respect his points of view, but I certainly and simply DON'T agree with every one of his recommendations.

As far as calcium supplements are concerned it is a clear NO for me. I witnessed too many often problems with calcium supplements, and my opinion is that they are going to stiffen organs and tissues sooner or later. So far I have never seen anyone taking calcium supplements for long periods not having big cristallisation issues (a few years later) like stones or highly calcified thyroid or gallbladder. It is my opinion that these problems would not have occured if the supplements had not been taken. I prefer avoiding everything we know that stiffen and cristallize tissues, and of all substances which do this the best, the most important are calcium phosphates and carbonates. If there were substances that would be illogical and completely unuseful to take - it is my opinion- (because they accumulate the most easily), these would be calcium and magnesium phosphates and carbonates. Well, if I can't express opinions like that, while being supporting Peat's ideas on other subjects, I won't anymore...Calcium carbonate from animal shells may have specific properties that makes it slightly different from purely mineral source, since it has passed through and is part of an animal life. Difference could be seen on molecular geomety or particules capacities. But still, I would not risk myself taking such a supplement.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I am aware this is Ray Peat forum. I simply expect that we are allowed to sometimes say "I don't agree with this statement or this recommendation because according to what I saw and how I understand it..." Exactly if we were talking directly with Ray or any friend. I already expressed that I HIGHLY respect his points of view, but I certainly and simply DON'T agree with every one of his recommendations.

As far as calcium supplements are concerned it is a clear NO for me. I witnessed too many often problems with calcium supplements, and my opinion is that they are going to stiffen organs and tissues sooner or later. So far I have never seen anyone taking calcium supplements for long periods not having big cristallisation issues (a few years later) like stones or highly calcified thyroid or gallbladder. It is my opinion that these problems would not have occured if the supplements had not been taken. I prefer avoiding everything we know that stiffen and cristallize tissues, and of all substances which do this the best, the most important are calcium phosphates and carbonates. If there were substances that would be illogical and completely unuseful to take - it is my opinion- (because they accumulate the most easily), these would be calcium and magnesium phosphates and carbonates. Well, if I can't express opinions like that, while being supporting Peat's ideas on other subjects, I won't anymore...Calcium carbonate from animal shells may have specific properties that makes it slightly different from purely mineral source, since it has passed through and is part of an animal life. Difference could be seen on molecular geomety or particules capacities. But still, I would not risk myself taking such a supplement.

Were these people maintaining good D3 levels? Good K2 levels? Something isn’t right. Calcification and fibrosis is something Peat has talked a lot about.

Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

Osteoporosis, harmful calcification, and nerve/muscle malfunctions

 

[Richard Jehl]

We should only drink water very poor in mineral content (inorganic and unusable) as some very astonishing studies about mortality have shown. A water containing 30 mg/l of total minerals is acceptable, a water containing 100 g or more is not on the long run.

By the way I was talking about 100 mg/l and not 100 g of course.

About the vitamins, elements and minerals inter-dependancies and inhibiting each other, it is very dangerous to take mono-supplementations (that is why food will always be superior to supplements). Take calcium supplements, and you blindly desorganize phosphore, manganese, magnesium and zinc functions. Take copper supplements, and you bring disorder in molybdenum, sulfur, zinc, phosphore, iron, and silver. Take large doses of sulfur, and that will disturb selenium, calcium, copper, molybdenum, and zinc. Same for vitamins, take Niacin (B3) for example in large doses, and you definitely affect vitamins D, and B1/2/6/12 which can't fullfill their function properly anymore; etc...

But anyway, everyone puts his faith in what he honestly thinks is the best approach, am I right ?

 

[Richard Jehl]

.

 

[Richard Jehl]

Were these people maintaining good D3 levels? Good K2 levels? Something isn’t right. Calcification and fibrosis is something Peat has talked a lot about.

Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

Osteoporosis, harmful calcification, and nerve/muscle malfunctions

These people were not patients of mine most of the time, so I don't remember exactly their dosages in the cases they showed them to me. And when they were patients of mine and choose to follow another doctor recommendation, I would not try to convince them they should not. In those cases I simply say "if I were you I would not take this, nor this vitamin D supplement because..." but I always let my patients be free to choose. Most of my patients come to see me and have etiotherapy session, and have doctors already following them. In addition and for several reasons, I don't value blood tests a lot, it is very easy to draw erroneous conclusions based on them, and be misguided. A lot of organ conditions cannot be seen on any blood test because they simply don't not affect blood composition much.

I will read those RP articles again.

 

[artist]

My current baking soda thing seems like it's going well but the sentiment in the OP is one I'm always aware of as I've had many false starts. It's also easy to take progress for granted. Sometimes it takes dropping a particular supplement, or reverting away from my current diet to realize how much it'd been helping and how bad off I'd been before I had picked it up. Diet, as much as I still struggle with it, has made the biggest difference for me overall for sure. These are my biggest breakthroughs. Before I implemented most of these my life was in shambles not even kidding, things are still rough in many ways, but the progress is huge. My tips:

• keep histamine content of foods in mind, not overdoing histamine or histamine liberators (OJ isn't my friend sadly)
• heavily salting my food
• avoid various trigger foods that make me a mess emotionally and physically that I discovered just from observing and keeping a simple diet
• on that subject, I cannot tolerate milk unless it's fermented as cheese, yogurt, kefir, sour cream (have not heard anyone else on this board say this before, dunno if it's just me). Plain milk honestly makes me feel like I'm developing schizophrenia, it's just bizarre. Also it's just better for me if I don't down a lot of dairy on its own in any format (sour cream is amazing for digestion ime however, I consume that the most)
• eating a carb-driven diet controls estrogen and depression issues better than any other single thing I've tried
• oregano oil helps me control starch/endotoxin issues better than anything I tried, also seems to work for basically every other malady
• progesterone is fantastically relaxing and stabilizing, the Idealabs one is the one I use now and it's great but Progest-E worked for me as well
• cyproheptadine is what I use basically whenever I need an emergency Get Out Of Jail Free card if I just feel terrible and nothing is working. 1 mg to just kinda get out of a mental loop I'm stuck in, 2mg to sleep and wake up feeling fully reset. Its effects are better after having taken it more than a handful of times, it was too sedating initially. If I take it after a night of drinking I will not have a hangover, full stop.
• intense, direct sun exposure makes me feel infinitely better, and it's usually available here in the deep south which is an upgrade from where I grew up in the NW
• magnesium citrate helps with keeping my digestion from getting too slow

 

[Baltazar]

@ecstatichamster

It's amazing the red light

I'm trying the real red light
I mean the sun

What red light do you have?

 

[lollipop]

Ray recommends calcium supplements in many cases. Egg shell or oyster shell. I don't believe this builds up as you say. I think that is a bunch of about buildup of "inorganic" calcium. Sorry.

I'm not sure you are aware this is the Ray Peat forum. I welcome all sorts of ideas, but there is nothing compatible with these ideas in what you wrote. That I can see.

I am not so sure we can completely disregard @Richard Jehl ’s entire post simply based on his calcium thoughts or perceived incongruance with Ray’s ideas.

More and more as time progresses, I am starting to agree with food over supplements if possible. Also, @Amazoniac has also been pointing some thoughts that direction.

Further Richard’s thoughts about fun, play, reducing stress on all levels: inner and outer physical, inner and outer emotional, inner and out mental, inner and outer sense of “I am-ness”, not focusing simply “physical”, biochemical activity. are spot on. It also points to the environmental factor in health.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I am not so sure we can completely discard @Richard Jehl’s entire post simply based on his calcium thoughts or perceived incongruance with Ray’s ideas.

More and more as time progresses, I am starting to agree with food over supplements if possible. @Amazoniac has also been pointing some thoughts that direction.

Further his thoughts about fun, play, reducing stress on all levels: inner and outer physical, inner and outer emotional, inner and out mental, inner and outer sense of “I am-ness”, not focusing simply “physical”, biochemical activity. are spot on. It also points to the environmental factor in health.

Welcome to the forum @Richard Jehl I should have said that.

You are very right @lisaferraro. And I agree with the food part. I very much disagree with the idea that calcium and magnesium in inorganic forms are deadly somehow. That was my disagreement.

 

[ecstatichamster]

@ecstatichamster

It's amazing the red light

I'm trying the real red light
I mean the sun

What red light do you have?

Yes we have the sun here also occasionally. LOL.

I use a full length Joovv light that puts out 1000 watts. And I have a 100 watt Red Light Man device. If I don't overdo it, those are amazing, both of them.

I've been doing these for well over a year, almost two. I use the full body light 3 or 4 times a week for maybe 3 minutes each. I use the smaller device a similar amount, but only on my teeth or face.

I no longer purposely expose my genitals or thyroid most of the time, although they get incidental exposure.

I found that too much red light completely killed my erections for a few weeks, indicating internal damage so that was a sign to cut back. Since then, all good.

 

[Baltazar]

Amazing thanks man
I live in South fl

 

[Richard Jehl]

I am not so sure we can completely discard @Richard Jehl’s entire post simply based on his calcium thoughts or perceived incongruance with Ray’s ideas.

More and more as time progresses, I am starting to agree with food over supplements if possible. @Amazoniac has also been pointing some thoughts that direction.

Thank you @lisaferraro ;-) and thank you @ecstatichamster for the links to those articles, there is one I had never read (I would have remembered because I don't agree).

I share and love Ray's ideas about many subjects, mainly fatty acids, cholesterol and sugar, but I found myself disagreeing with ideas found in the article about calcification
Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

Please allow a few words about why I don't agree, and by the same occasion it will explain why I don't see inorganic calcium as desirable.

Correct me if I am wrong, but every animal or human body naturally accumulates calcium in inorganic forms during its life. This accumulation starts right in the prenatal life : a foetus is already more calcified than an embryo. The article presents the bones as an exception to the calcification process that occurs in every tissue during life, but that is not true, and the confusion comes from the fact that there is not a clear distinction made in the article between organic and inorganic forms of calcium.

The characteristic of aging seen as a cristallisation, is the accumulation of INORGANIC calcium salts, not organic calcium compounds (gelatin-like or collagen-like; colloidal compounds), and this occurs in every part of the body, BONES INCLUDED. The bone tissue in a child is about 1/4 in a cristallised form, and in an old person, 3/4 is cristallised. So the bones also cristallize, and as every other part of the body, the cristallisation is mainly due to the elevation of proportions of calcium phosphates and carbonates.

Human beings are heterotroph beings, unlike plants which are autotroph. This means we cannot take the calcium we need to form the diverse caclium-containing molecules for our bodies, from inorganic sources as carbonates and phosphates. That is why those forms accumulates during life : because the body cannot use them to form the diverse needed molecules. Phosphates and carbonates are like wastes.

The bones may lack calcium in ORGANIC form (for example bound to protein) and that is why we hear sometimes that there can be a "loss of calcium" but the bones certainly don't lack calcium in INORGANIC form because it can only accumulate in all our tissues...and it does in every bone as well. People with osteoporosis always show excessive calcification (inorganic form) at the same time. For these people as for everyone aiming at slowing down aging and avoiding illnesses that occurs with aging, it is FUNDAMENTAL to avoid calcium phosphates and carbonates sources in the food. If we lack ORGANIC forms of calcium in our soft tissues, this leads to depletion in the bone tissue which gives a part of its own non-cristallized calcium to them. But this worsen the calcification of the bones (which become more and more DENSE with aging, and dense DOES NOT MEAN SOLID) and allow osteoporosis (or other problems) to appear.

And by the way, even if a person can digest dairy products correctly, the organic calcium found in them is not very well assimilated. In addition, if the milk or the dairy product is cooked or pasteurized, a good part of the calcium becomes inorganic and not usable : it becomes a dangerous waste exaclty like carbonates and phosphates. That is why dairy products are not ideal as calcium source. Better are vegetables, fruits, mollasses etc (vegetable sources).

It is important to understand that the calcium which is problematic and on which we can act, the one that accumulates and promotes aging, COMES FROM THE FOOD WE EAT, rather than the body itself : it is not produced by the body ! That is why the "best" foods will always be the ones having the lowest proportion of non-usable nutrients such as carbonates and phosphates (inorganic). We are not stones eaters !! We are humans, not plants...

I also smiled when I read the study Ray mentions, which suggests it could be beneficial to drink hard water (rich in inorganic minerals). This is a very surprising statement, and I found myself voiceless in reading this in a Peat's article. Those kind of statements are promoted by the water industry, and we know for more than a century that they are completely wrong. The study Ray mentions is based on comparison with average level of mortality, which is not very meaningful. I cannot believe Ray has not read the plenty of studies that demonstrates that the less the water we drink is rich in minerals (they are all inorganic by the way), the better the overall health is, and the lowest the mortality is. I could not find a link to the study Ray mentions, neither could I to the studies I have in memory that show the importance of drinking pure water (and not hard water !). A well-known study took place in France in the 1960s, made by René Louis Vincent. It closely studied the water that was drank in 57 towns. The result was astonishing because the correlation between mortality and purity of water was absolutely perfect. The more the water drank is filled with minerals, the more the mortality explodes. Mortality in different towns can vary a very great deal, and that is directly correlated with the quality of the water we drink. There are a lot of other studies showing we should avoid mineral-rich waters. And Ray is I think the only health consellor I know, who does not teach the importance of drinking pure water (mineralisation less than 50 or 30 mg/l) but wrote something suggesting drinking hard water could be a good idea ! At this time, more and more people concerned with their health buy devices for obtaining osmosis-purified water (5 to 40 mg/l) or even drink distilled water !

 

[Daniel11]

Amazing thanks man
I live in South fl

I have benefited greatly by getting the orange/red spectrum wavelengths though the open eyes.

Learning best time of day to do what areas of the body is very important, i find this comes with experimenting and use. I and many have found that holding the light through the open eyes in the morning just after waking up is very stimulating and beneficial for the brain. The areas on the abdomen just below the sternum above the liver and pancreas are also very beneficial, i find doing these locations later in the evening relaxing, if you shine the light near eyes late in the day it may keep you up at night.

For the abdomen areas i hold the light on the skin or 1-3 inches away if you like, for 3-5 min each location, the area just below the sternum is excellent location for the light to reach a lot of major arteries, nerves and organs where the light photons reach the blood and are carried systemically through out the body, i find it very helpful for digestion and sleeping sounder.

For the eyes i hold light 3-5 inches from my nose, holding my eyes wide open for 1-8 min at a time, start slow and increase time as you feel comfortable, if light to bright at first squint your eyes and slowly open as your eyes adjust, the room will look blue and purple afterwards, i leave my eyes open and enjoy the changes some people prefer to palm their eyes after. I find best to do light therapy while very relaxed on sofa or bed.

“Beneficial in vivo effects of LLLT on the eye have been found in optic nerve trauma, methanol intoxication, optic neuropathy, retinal injury, retinitis pigmentosa, phototoxicity, and age-related macular degeneration. Beneficial in vivo transcranial effects of LLLT on the brain have been observed in anoxic brain injury, atherothrombotic stroke, embolic stroke, ischemic stroke, acute traumatic brain injury, chronic traumatic brain injury, neurodegeneration, age-related memory loss, and cognitive and mood disorders.”

Low-level light therapy of the eye and brain

This is the light i like and use.

Orange and Red Light Therapy - LGS1

 

[Daniel11]

Thank you @lisaferraro ;-) and thank you @ecstatichamster for the links to those articles, there is one I had never read (I would have remembered because I don't agree).

I share and love Ray's ideas about many subjects, mainly fatty acids, cholesterol and sugar, but I found myself disagreeing with ideas found in the article about calcification
Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

Please allow a few words about why I don't agree, and by the same occasion it will explain why I don't see inorganic calcium as desirable.

Correct me if I am wrong, but every animal or human body naturally accumulates calcium in inorganic forms during its life. This accumulation starts right in the prenatal life : a foetus is already more calcified than an embryo. The article presents the bones as an exception to the calcification process that occurs in every tissue during life, but that is not true, and the confusion comes from the fact that there is not a clear distinction made in the article between organic and inorganic forms of calcium.

The characteristic of aging seen as a cristallisation, is the accumulation of INORGANIC calcium salts, not organic calcium compounds (gelatin-like or collagen-like; colloidal compounds), and this occurs in every part of the body, BONES INCLUDED. The bone tissue in a child is about 1/4 in a cristallised form, and in an old person, 3/4 is cristallised. So the bones also cristallize, and as every other part of the body, the cristallisation is mainly due to the elevation of proportions of calcium phosphates and carbonates.

Human beings are heterotroph beings, unlike plants which are autotroph. This means we cannot take the calcium we need to form the diverse caclium-containing molecules for our bodies, from inorganic sources as carbonates and phosphates. That is why those forms accumulates during life : because the body cannot use them to form the diverse needed molecules. Phosphates and carbonates are like wastes.

The bones may lack calcium in ORGANIC form (for example bound to protein) and that is why we hear sometimes that there can be a "loss of calcium" but the bones certainly don't lack calcium in INORGANIC form because it can only accumulate in all our tissues...and it does in every bone as well. People with osteoporosis always show excessive calcification (inorganic form) at the same time. For these people as for everyone aiming at slowing down aging and avoiding illnesses that occurs with aging, it is FUNDAMENTAL to avoid calcium phosphates and carbonates sources in the food. If we lack ORGANIC forms of calcium in our soft tissues, this leads to depletion in the bone tissue which gives a part of its own non-cristallized calcium to them. But this worsen the calcification of the bones (which become more and more DENSE with aging, and dense DOES NOT MEAN SOLID) and allow osteoporosis (or other problems) to appear.

And by the way, even if a person can digest dairy products correctly, the organic calcium found in them is not very well assimilated. In addition, if the milk or the dairy product is cooked or pasteurized, a good part of the calcium becomes inorganic and not usable : it becomes a dangerous waste exaclty like carbonates and phosphates. That is why dairy products are not ideal as calcium source. Better are vegetables, fruits, mollasses etc (vegetable sources).

It is important to understand that the calcium which is problematic and on which we can act, the one that accumulates and promotes aging, COMES FROM THE FOOD WE EAT, rather than the body itself : it is not produced by the body ! That is why the "best" foods will always be the ones having the lowest proportion of non-usable nutrients such as carbonates and phosphates (inorganic). We are not stones eaters !! We are humans, not plants...

I also smiled when I read the study Ray mentions, which suggests it could be beneficial to drink hard water (rich in inorganic minerals). This is a very surprising statement, and I found myself voiceless in reading this in a Peat's article. Those kind of statements are promoted by the water industry, and we know for more than a century that they are completely wrong. The study Ray mentions is based on comparison with average level of mortality, which is not very meaningful. I cannot believe Ray has not read the plenty of studies that demonstrates that the less the water we drink is rich in minerals (they are all inorganic by the way), the better the overall health is, and the lowest the mortality is. I could not find a link to the study Ray mentions, neither could I to the studies I have in memory that show the importance of drinking pure water (and not hard water !). A well-known study took place in France in the 1960s, made by René Louis Vincent. It closely studied the water that was drank in 57 towns. The result was astonishing because the correlation between mortality and purity of water was absolutely perfect. The more the water drank is filled with minerals, the more the mortality explodes. Mortality in different towns can vary a very great deal, and that is directly correlated with the quality of the water we drink. There are a lot of other studies showing we should avoid mineral-rich waters. And Ray is I think the only health consellor I know, who does not teach not to drink pure water (mineralisation less than 50 or 30 mg/l) but wrote something suggesting drinking hard water could be a good idea ! At this time, more and more people concerned with their health buy devices for obtaining osmosis-purified water (5 to 40 mg/l) or even drink distilled water !

I tend to agree with you about the water, but i think there is a lot more then just the mineral issue, i started drinking mostly distilled water couple years ago and very happy i did, although i really enjoy and feel good with the occasional Italian bubbly waters.

And i am glad you are bringing up this water subject, i have felt its has been not given enough attention on the forum and is of upmost importance to our health, everyone is always talking about the food and supplements they take but never about the most important substance we put in our bodies, the water.

I have been finding adding Molecular Hydrogen to my distilled water has been very beneficial.

Molecular Hydrogen Institute