How To Run Tren

[Markus]

Finally a useful reply. But Jing, you're oriental, which means you have a genetic propensity for low androgenicity. Steroids won't have much of an effect on secondary male characteristics in your case (not trying to be a **** but some people respond better to steroids). I HAVE heard many anecdotes of steroids deepening male voices before, just look on the internet, so I'm convinced it can be done somehow.

Another option would be androsterone from IdeaLabs, which can even be applied directly to the vocal chords.

 

[Jing]

Another option would be androsterone from IdeaLabs, which can even be applied directly to the vocal chords.

I've also tried androsterone and 11keto on vocal chords lol no effect also tried pansterone.

 

[milkboi]

Lie down and rot you high estro cuck

He probably just wanted his own post deleted. An overreaction like this might get you banned here, just so you know. I am actually interested in the topics you are bringing up, so it'd be a shame.

 

[ToLive_IsToFly]

Lie down and rot you high estro cuck

Lol You have some serious anger issues; as well as problems with reading comprehension. Perhaps you should lighten up on the juice or at least stop projecting onto others.

 

[ToLive_IsToFly]

He probably just wanted his own post deleted. An overreaction like this might get you banned here, just so you know. I am actually interested in the topics you are bringing up, so it'd be a shame.

I wouldnt want him banned either; serves as a good warning on the dangers of overdoing roids

 

[Momado965]

LOL this ******* thread. I do not understand the ban tho. He should be free to say whatever he wants and we either respond to him or we dont.

 

[opson123]

You can't seriously think it's okay for everyone to say whatever they want and not get banned?

 

[Yggr]

Freedom of speech and freedom to not have to respond. Not freedom to let your emotions oppress others.

 

[milkboi]

Freedom of speech and freedom to not have to respond. Not freedom to let your emotions oppress others.

I agree if we are talking law. But this is a private forum. Look over at the „looksmaxing“ forum, and the tone there is ******* awful, wouldn‘t want that over here. But yeah, I don‘t think a single comment like that needs to lead to immediate banning either.

 

[Momado965]

You can't seriously think it's okay for everyone to say whatever they want and not get banned?

As a matter of fact I do.

 

[Momado965]

Freedom of speech and freedom to not have to respond. Not freedom to let your emotions oppress others.

If anyone felt 'oppressed' from a silly comment online then that imbecile of a person should take some cortinon and maybe some androsterone LMFAO!!!

 

[redsun]

As a matter of fact I do.

Well its a good thing there are many other forums where you can speak and insult whoever for whatever reason with no consequence. There are plenty of places with no class on the internet go there instead of this forum, its never going to turn into those. Last time I ever link a thread to curious people because you cant help but be troublesome and bring this thread up again.

Stop ******* bringing these threads up again and again just because some impulsive roided loser got himself banned, its embarrassing and no one cares that you want this place to basically be Ray Peat Forum - 4Chan Edition.

 

[Momado965]

Well its a good thing there are many other forums where you can speak and insult whoever for whatever reason with no consequence. There are plenty of places with no class on the internet go there instead of this forum, its never going to turn into those. Last time I ever link a thread to curious people because you cant help but be troublesome and bring this thread up again.

Stop ******* bringing these threads up again and again just because some impulsive roided loser got himself banned, its embarrassing and no one cares that you want this place to basically be Ray Peat Forum - 4Chan Edition.

Hold your horses boy and do not accuse me of something I did not do and take some androsterone L O L!

 

[SonOfEurope]

I've used Masteron up to 600mg week no voice deepening or male characteristics perhaps just beard comes in quicker and abit more body hair but nothing special. I still can't grow a proper beard on my cheeks. I don't think any steroids are going to deepen the voice otherwise all bodybuilders would have deep voices.

I've also been on testosterone for nearly a year 600mg for couple months , then cruising at 300mg,ATM on 400mg still no male characteristics.

Testosterone appears to be the most effective at virilizing features when in the range of 700 to 900 ng....

Perhaps because that's the normal high end blood level achieved by a young man's (20-40) Gonads working the most optimally.

At that level, itself and it's metabolite DHT interact with the minimal amount of E2 produced, in a cycle of sensitizing to the receptor and de-sensitization, progesterone's calming effect on the adrenals seems important, I also had little beard and little chest hair, after 2 years progesterone medium dose plus some bit of DHEA that changed drastically.

Super natural levels of over 1200 ng/Dl appear to saturate the AR to the point of de-sensitizing the receptors messing with the harmony of metabolites' effects in the periphery... Just useful for enhancing muscle recovery and protein synthesis.

 

[Broco6679]

Super natural levels of over 1200 ng/Dl appear to saturate the AR to the point of de-sensitizing the receptors messing with the harmony of metabolites' effects in the periphery

Can you expand on the mechanism behind this statement please? Is said desensitization permanent even after high dose androgens are removed?

 

[TheBeard]

Super natural levels of over 1200 ng/Dl appear to saturate the AR to the point of de-sensitizing the receptors messing with the harmony of metabolites' effects in the periphery... Just useful for enhancing muscle recovery and protein synthesis.

That's a myth that has been disproven many a time.
Where did you get this arbitrary level of 1200?
"Appear"? Where?

You cannot compare a hormone to an opioid. The pharmacokinetics and behavior are entirely different. Opioid receptors proliferate to accommodate higher amounts of circulating drugs. Androgens and hormones are mediated by many more factors than the receptor alone, including binding proteins and globulins, enzymatic metabolism and conversion to other substances etc. AR proliferates too of course, but it isn't the only factor.

I mean, aside from the fact that the comparison you are making between hormones and other drugs isn't valid, it doesn't even appear to be the case anecdotally. Anyone who has run gear with all other factors in check, including sleep, diet and training and basically eats at maintenance can tell you that gains are more or less commensurate to the amount of drugs used, at that point. But being on 500mg of test will put on size and muscle to the point that 500mgs of test can allow for and sustain. This does not, however, mean that one day you'll just start shrinking and be like "***t my 500mg of test is only equivalent to 150mg now because of my tolerance!"

You don't build tolerance to hormones in the classical sense typically associated with street drugs. If anything, it is based on weight and the ability of X amount of androgens to sustain X amount of lean mass, which will be a relatively constant factor. If the athlete wants to gain more weight, then yes he may need to use more androgens. But it doesn't just STOP WORKING. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the way hormones work.

There is no such thing as testosterone resistance as it applies to bodybuilders and normal steroid users. There are very rare medical conditions like androgen intolerance, but this doesn't apply to any of us. Please find me a study on "testosterone resistance secondary to anabolic steroid use" and I will buy you your next cycle.

 

[SonOfEurope]

That's a myth that has been disproven many a time.
Where did you get this arbitrary level of 1200?
"Appear"? Where?

You cannot compare a hormone to an opioid. The pharmacokinetics and behavior are entirely different. Opioid receptors proliferate to accommodate higher amounts of circulating drugs. Androgens and hormones are mediated by many more factors than the receptor alone, including binding proteins and globulins, enzymatic metabolism and conversion to other substances etc. AR proliferates too of course, but it isn't the only factor.

I mean, aside from the fact that the comparison you are making between hormones and other drugs isn't valid, it doesn't even appear to be the case anecdotally. Anyone who has run gear with all other factors in check, including sleep, diet and training and basically eats at maintenance can tell you that gains are more or less commensurate to the amount of drugs used, at that point. But being on 500mg of test will put on size and muscle to the point that 500mgs of test can allow for and sustain. This does not, however, mean that one day you'll just start shrinking and be like "***t my 500mg of test is only equivalent to 150mg now because of my tolerance!"

You don't build tolerance to hormones in the classical sense typically associated with street drugs. If anything, it is based on weight and the ability of X amount of androgens to sustain X amount of lean mass, which will be a relatively constant factor. If the athlete wants to gain more weight, then yes he may need to use more androgens. But it doesn't just STOP WORKING. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the way hormones work.

There is no such thing as testosterone resistance as it applies to bodybuilders and normal steroid users. There are very rare medical conditions like androgen intolerance, but this doesn't apply to any of us. Please find me a study on "testosterone resistance secondary to anabolic steroid use" and I will buy you your next cycle.

Dude, this is a misunderstanding ...

My response was regarding basic secondary sex characteristics - i never said anything about a receptor dependant cycle if AAS are used. bodybuilders who even do grams of Test a week will not see major dose dependant changes in those secondary characteristics up to a certain point determined by the individual's DNA and Age, or Jay Cutler would compete in the world's best beard competition and would have a 12 inch taco and have a voice deeper than Morgan Freeman . It ain't so.

And I said muscle is except from this - beyond natural levels of T (or any anabolic agent) will obviously provide enhanced and accelerated protein synthesis, reduce muscle loss even in a caloric deficit and be anobolic to bones.

 

[Yody]

Is it irresponsible to run test+tren, or just test, with androsterone or Proviron for fast forwarding through a 'second puberty'? I'm thinking 5-10 weeks of a well planned cycle to create more androgen receptors in muscle.

Should I just stick with cycling through cistanche and eggs yolks then back to prog+dhea? I I wasted 3-4 important years dependant on opioids, (5-6 including the lesser extreme kratom,) and have been healing tremendously since mostly 'peating' after this summer.

Is there a smart way to do this to improve my life, or should I stick with the long game? Thanks.

 

[TheBeard]

Is it irresponsible to run test+tren, or just test, with androsterone or Proviron for fast forwarding through a 'second puberty'? I'm thinking 5-10 weeks of a well planned cycle to create more androgen receptors in muscle.

Should I just stick with cycling through cistanche and eggs yolks then back to prog+dhea? I I wasted 3-4 important years dependant on opioids, (5-6 including the lesser extreme kratom,) and have been healing tremendously since mostly 'peating' after this summer.

Is there a smart way to do this to improve my life, or should I stick with the long game? Thanks.

Irresponsible?

For Tren very much so, it will shut down your HPTA hard and give you a host of sides.

Testosterone? Do what you want it's not that harmful unless you push it very high.

Going through a second puberty? Most likely not, things are pretty much set in stone past 22.

 

[Yody]

Irresponsible?

For Tren very much so, it will shut down your HPTA hard and give you a host of sides.

Testosterone? Do what you want it's not that harmful unless you push it very high.

Going through a second puberty? Most likely not, things are pretty much set in stone past 22.

Thanks bruv, your knowledge is much appreciated. Raws are so hard to come by in the US, otherwise I'd make a topical solution.

So something like 400mg of Test E/C for 12-16 weeks, with Proviron 25-50mg ED, should work out well for someone actively chasing gains? (Could Androsterone be used in place of Proviron?) And I forget if I read elsewhere, would you advise HCG on cycle or only post? Is Nolvadex necessary?

One thing I'm also hoping you might clarify, is keeping gains. Obviously, anything supraphysiological is unsustainable -- but muscle fibers which are trained under a cycle of T should retain their ability to become loaded with glycogen under the proper circumstances, right?

At 27, I've just found out the girl I invested 8 years into was cheating at the end. Now seems like a good time to roid up and grow physically and mentally.

Sorry if this is too much and off topic. Nobody seems to have the info down as well you and Olive.